KittenKoder
Senior Member
Actually ... not really. Though Sky's assessment was wrong because it's not just conservatives. Everyone wants to be happy, and what makes us happy is about ourselves.
Alright, I Don't Understand, What Is It That Conservatives Want?
- Thread starter Coloradomtnman
- Start date
Actually ... not really. Though Sky's assessment was wrong because it's not just conservatives. Everyone wants to be happy, and what makes us happy is about ourselves.
KittenKoder
Senior Member
One thing the conservatives and I agree with strongly (at least the conservatives who have not lost their way) ... less government is better.
Of course no one wants big bloated government beurocracy.
But you need to wake up to what the Republicans are trying to do when they sell you on this idea that "less government is better". They want less regulations on corporations. And that's what got us in this mess.
So you might want to stop worrying about big government and start paying attention to whats really going on.
Our founders warned us about corporations getting too powerful too. Thomas Jefferson warned us. But you will never hear Conservatives or Republicans say this because the GOP serves the rich and corporations.
Why do conservatives value Jefferson's warnings about big government but not his warnings about Federal Banks, Corporations and too much wealth?
Jefferson wanted State banks. He didn't even want a Federal Bank. And he certainly didn't want private bankers running the treasury.
The bankers can run the banks, but not the treasury. And corporations have ruined our economy, along with the GOP government from 2000-2006. And the government from 07-08 couldn't do anything to fix what was done because they only had a one seat majority and a retard in the white house.
Coloradomtnman
Rational and proud of it.
- Thread starter
- #84
Alright. After reading the comments on my OP, let me edit the list and see if I can't make it more accurate, therein reorganising my perception of conservatism:
Although the definition that libertarians and conservatives use to define conservatism may change from individual to individual, this is the most commonly held definition of the different types of conservatism.
Fiscal Conservatism:
A cornerstone of the US foundation is the individual's rights to prosperity. All government, especially the Federal, is suspect.
1. The Federal Government should be extremely limited, to only issues on the national level such as: defense, and enforcement of the Constitution. This would lower taxes because of less programs on which the government needs less money to spend; and because Federal government is inefficient. Basically, the Federal government is inept at dealing with issues below the national level and should only deal with issues in the ways laid out by the Constitution.
2. The Federal Government should have no right to intrude in our lives. See #1.
3. For the most part, the Federal Government should have little to do with the regulation of business. There are some exception, but I don't know, from a conservative perspective, those exceptions would be. Feel free to enlighten me here. And Federal government regulations get in the way of US citizens opportunity to attain economic wealth.
4. Conservatives have mixed opinions about whether to abolish Medicaid, Social Security, and Welfare, but think, generally, that these programs would do better at a state or local government level or if taken by private non-profit charity companies. We live in a "nanny" or "welfare" state that provides some citizens a way to abuse the current system. It also facilitates a mentality of unreasonable entitlement.
5. Most fiscal issues should be dealt with by either the state or local governments are by the private sector.
6. Nationalized healthcare is a step toward socialism. Leave it to the private sector and insure everyone using incentives such as tax credits.
7. There are those who don't deserve help. The private sector or local governments would better be able to tighten the regulations on who should be helped and who shouldn't. Those who don't deserve it won't survive in this society unless they work.
8. Washington is corrupt and should receive as little money as possible because that money is used to line their pockets and the pockets of lobbyists and special interest groups.
Social Conservatism
Conservatives, generally, feel that society should become a more traditional society. Progress usually has negative impacts on society.
1. Roe v. Wade should be rescinded and the states should decide on whether to allow legal abortions or not. For some conservatives this is because they believe the Federal government has no right to act in the capacity to rule on such a decision, and for other conservatives, its moral or religious-based decision.
2. The Federal government should enforce the Constitution, which, as a result, would protect religion, particularly Christianity, from government intrusion and oppression. Religion, especially, Christianity, are under constant attack in this secular society. Since the founding Fathers were Christian or influenced by Judeo-Christian religions, the nation was founded on those values and should reflect that in it policies.
3. Homosexuality is a choice. Homosexual marriages should be banned because that gives "extra" rights to homosexuals to marry and no one should receive unfair treatment under the law.
4. Affirmative Action is institutionalized racism, therefore unlawful and should be abolished.
5. Conservatives have mixed opinions on stricter jail terms for drug use or dealers, and some even think drugs, at least marijuana, should be legalized. Some sentences, for other crimes, should be made stricter.
Other:
1. Strong Defense.
2. The US should be the global economic and military superpower, though some conservatives think this is just what has happened and it won't always be.
3. Right to bear arms, to defend yourself against criminals and to have the opportunity to revolt against the government if you thought it was necessary.
4. Conservatives would mostly agree that: The way things are in American government are mostly bad, because of over-spending, activist judges, over taxation of the wealthy and of business, and the influence of special interest groups.
5. Conservatives would mostly agree that: The way things are in American society are mostly bad, because of teaching wrong things about Christianity in public schools, liberal media bias, liberal immorality, abortion, homosexuality, and widespread crime and drug use.
6. Conservatives believe that if you work hard enough you will be successful in the current system. Luck has something to do with it, but hard work can overcome bad luck.
7. If more people have the opportunity to successfully attain wealth, just by attaining it will broaden opportunity for more people, which will snowball somewhat like a vicious cycle which isn't vicious. This will reduce poverty, which will reduce crime, and increase prosperity and the quality of living for all in US society.
8. Human beings are essentially good and only need some regulations for those anti-social elements who may lead society astray.
How's that?
Although the definition that libertarians and conservatives use to define conservatism may change from individual to individual, this is the most commonly held definition of the different types of conservatism.
Fiscal Conservatism:
A cornerstone of the US foundation is the individual's rights to prosperity. All government, especially the Federal, is suspect.
1. The Federal Government should be extremely limited, to only issues on the national level such as: defense, and enforcement of the Constitution. This would lower taxes because of less programs on which the government needs less money to spend; and because Federal government is inefficient. Basically, the Federal government is inept at dealing with issues below the national level and should only deal with issues in the ways laid out by the Constitution.
2. The Federal Government should have no right to intrude in our lives. See #1.
3. For the most part, the Federal Government should have little to do with the regulation of business. There are some exception, but I don't know, from a conservative perspective, those exceptions would be. Feel free to enlighten me here. And Federal government regulations get in the way of US citizens opportunity to attain economic wealth.
4. Conservatives have mixed opinions about whether to abolish Medicaid, Social Security, and Welfare, but think, generally, that these programs would do better at a state or local government level or if taken by private non-profit charity companies. We live in a "nanny" or "welfare" state that provides some citizens a way to abuse the current system. It also facilitates a mentality of unreasonable entitlement.
5. Most fiscal issues should be dealt with by either the state or local governments are by the private sector.
6. Nationalized healthcare is a step toward socialism. Leave it to the private sector and insure everyone using incentives such as tax credits.
7. There are those who don't deserve help. The private sector or local governments would better be able to tighten the regulations on who should be helped and who shouldn't. Those who don't deserve it won't survive in this society unless they work.
8. Washington is corrupt and should receive as little money as possible because that money is used to line their pockets and the pockets of lobbyists and special interest groups.
Social Conservatism
Conservatives, generally, feel that society should become a more traditional society. Progress usually has negative impacts on society.
1. Roe v. Wade should be rescinded and the states should decide on whether to allow legal abortions or not. For some conservatives this is because they believe the Federal government has no right to act in the capacity to rule on such a decision, and for other conservatives, its moral or religious-based decision.
2. The Federal government should enforce the Constitution, which, as a result, would protect religion, particularly Christianity, from government intrusion and oppression. Religion, especially, Christianity, are under constant attack in this secular society. Since the founding Fathers were Christian or influenced by Judeo-Christian religions, the nation was founded on those values and should reflect that in it policies.
3. Homosexuality is a choice. Homosexual marriages should be banned because that gives "extra" rights to homosexuals to marry and no one should receive unfair treatment under the law.
4. Affirmative Action is institutionalized racism, therefore unlawful and should be abolished.
5. Conservatives have mixed opinions on stricter jail terms for drug use or dealers, and some even think drugs, at least marijuana, should be legalized. Some sentences, for other crimes, should be made stricter.
Other:
1. Strong Defense.
2. The US should be the global economic and military superpower, though some conservatives think this is just what has happened and it won't always be.
3. Right to bear arms, to defend yourself against criminals and to have the opportunity to revolt against the government if you thought it was necessary.
4. Conservatives would mostly agree that: The way things are in American government are mostly bad, because of over-spending, activist judges, over taxation of the wealthy and of business, and the influence of special interest groups.
5. Conservatives would mostly agree that: The way things are in American society are mostly bad, because of teaching wrong things about Christianity in public schools, liberal media bias, liberal immorality, abortion, homosexuality, and widespread crime and drug use.
6. Conservatives believe that if you work hard enough you will be successful in the current system. Luck has something to do with it, but hard work can overcome bad luck.
7. If more people have the opportunity to successfully attain wealth, just by attaining it will broaden opportunity for more people, which will snowball somewhat like a vicious cycle which isn't vicious. This will reduce poverty, which will reduce crime, and increase prosperity and the quality of living for all in US society.
8. Human beings are essentially good and only need some regulations for those anti-social elements who may lead society astray.
How's that?
WillowTree
Diamond Member
- Sep 15, 2008
- 84,532
- 16,116
- 2,180
why fascinating? predictable is more accurate! that's why it is always a waste of time to reply to these types of gotcha posts!
DiamondDave
Army Vet
Why must you interject your snarky assumptions into your supposed OP? Instead of dealing with what is actually said or stood for by conservatives?
KittenKoder
Senior Member
If you really believe that then you have a simple mind. I will avoid pointing out to you that they were forced to make many of the loans and give credit cards to many of those who couldn't pay it back by Democrat policies ... oh wait ... I just did.
Either you are dumb or being misleading on purpose. Yes, Democrats made it possible for low income people to purchase homes, but...
and I'm not going to waste a lot of time with you because you are slow, but....
who bundled them all together? Who conned them into getting sub prime loans? Who deregulated the industry so predatory lending was possible?
Who sent all our manufacturing jobs overseas so that all these people have lost their homes?
You poor/middle class republicans really are dumb.
Now if you are rich, forgive me for calling you dumb. If you are rich, then you are a greedy selfish American who doesn't care about country, only yourself.
Anyone who points to Freddy & Fanny as the cause of this financial meltdown is a stupid cock sucker.
Now do you want to take it back?
PS. The GOP and Corporations that purposely took down the economy knew years ago they would be blaming Freddy/Fanny for all this. And they knew you would swallow whatever they told you to swallow. They must have went to college with you.
Yes, its called disaster capitalism. It is a lot easier to push their radical right wing agenda when the economy is in the tank. Just like it was easier to lie us into Iraq after Saddam and Bin Ladin hit us on 9-11. Oh wait, Saddam had nothing to do with it?
Well it was a lot easier to sell you on war when Chaney told you that Iraq oil would pay for the war. Oh wait, they lied about that too.
YOu are simply dumb.
KittenKoder
Senior Member
Either you are dumb or being misleading on purpose. Yes, Democrats made it possible for low income people to purchase homes, but...
and I'm not going to waste a lot of time with you because you are slow, but....
who bundled them all together? Who conned them into getting sub prime loans? Who deregulated the industry so predatory lending was possible?
Who sent all our manufacturing jobs overseas so that all these people have lost their homes?
You poor/middle class republicans really are dumb.
Now if you are rich, forgive me for calling you dumb. If you are rich, then you are a greedy selfish American who doesn't care about country, only yourself.
Anyone who points to Freddy & Fanny as the cause of this financial meltdown is a stupid cock sucker.
Now do you want to take it back?
PS. The GOP and Corporations that purposely took down the economy knew years ago they would be blaming Freddy/Fanny for all this. And they knew you would swallow whatever they told you to swallow. They must have went to college with you.
Yes, its called disaster capitalism. It is a lot easier to push their radical right wing agenda when the economy is in the tank. Just like it was easier to lie us into Iraq after Saddam and Bin Ladin hit us on 9-11. Oh wait, Saddam had nothing to do with it?
Well it was a lot easier to sell you on war when Chaney told you that Iraq oil would pay for the war. Oh wait, they lied about that too.
YOu are simply dumb.
Hmm ... so forcing someone who makes a profit off people paying them back to give money to those who can't pay them back doesn't hurt the economy at all? Wow! I never knew we lived in bizzaro country.
DiamondDave
Army Vet
Why do you even bother responding to the idiot, kitten?
Coloradomtnman
Rational and proud of it.
- Thread starter
- #91
I didn't think of it as snarky. That is your perception. I posted it as I saw it. That is how I perceived conservatism. I admit that I have a liberal bias, and that is why I posted this thread: to try to see through the bias with which I see conservatism and get some feedback to better understand the opposite point of view.
Try to realize and remember that you perceive me with a conservative bias.
Either you are dumb or being misleading on purpose. Yes, Democrats made it possible for low income people to purchase homes, but...
and I'm not going to waste a lot of time with you because you are slow, but....
who bundled them all together? Who conned them into getting sub prime loans? Who deregulated the industry so predatory lending was possible?
Who sent all our manufacturing jobs overseas so that all these people have lost their homes?
You poor/middle class republicans really are dumb.
Now if you are rich, forgive me for calling you dumb. If you are rich, then you are a greedy selfish American who doesn't care about country, only yourself.
Anyone who points to Freddy & Fanny as the cause of this financial meltdown is a stupid cock sucker.
Now do you want to take it back?
PS. The GOP and Corporations that purposely took down the economy knew years ago they would be blaming Freddy/Fanny for all this. And they knew you would swallow whatever they told you to swallow. They must have went to college with you.
Yes, its called disaster capitalism. It is a lot easier to push their radical right wing agenda when the economy is in the tank. Just like it was easier to lie us into Iraq after Saddam and Bin Ladin hit us on 9-11. Oh wait, Saddam had nothing to do with it?
Well it was a lot easier to sell you on war when Chaney told you that Iraq oil would pay for the war. Oh wait, they lied about that too.
YOu are simply dumb.
Hmm ... so forcing someone who makes a profit off people paying them back to give money to those who can't pay them back doesn't hurt the economy at all? Wow! I never knew we lived in bizzaro country.
I just exposed your bullshit ignorance and it went in one ear and out the other.
Go Freddy Mack yourself in the Fanny Mae, stupid.
KittenKoder
Senior Member
Either you are dumb or being misleading on purpose. Yes, Democrats made it possible for low income people to purchase homes, but...
and I'm not going to waste a lot of time with you because you are slow, but....
who bundled them all together? Who conned them into getting sub prime loans? Who deregulated the industry so predatory lending was possible?
Who sent all our manufacturing jobs overseas so that all these people have lost their homes?
You poor/middle class republicans really are dumb.
Now if you are rich, forgive me for calling you dumb. If you are rich, then you are a greedy selfish American who doesn't care about country, only yourself.
Anyone who points to Freddy & Fanny as the cause of this financial meltdown is a stupid cock sucker.
Now do you want to take it back?
PS. The GOP and Corporations that purposely took down the economy knew years ago they would be blaming Freddy/Fanny for all this. And they knew you would swallow whatever they told you to swallow. They must have went to college with you.
Yes, its called disaster capitalism. It is a lot easier to push their radical right wing agenda when the economy is in the tank. Just like it was easier to lie us into Iraq after Saddam and Bin Ladin hit us on 9-11. Oh wait, Saddam had nothing to do with it?
Well it was a lot easier to sell you on war when Chaney told you that Iraq oil would pay for the war. Oh wait, they lied about that too.
YOu are simply dumb.
Hmm ... so forcing someone who makes a profit off people paying them back to give money to those who can't pay them back doesn't hurt the economy at all? Wow! I never knew we lived in bizzaro country.
I just exposed your bullshit ignorance and it went in one ear and out the other.
Go Freddy Mack yourself in the Fanny Mae, stupid.
As I said ... nothing will ever get done to help anyone because no one will fess up to their own flaws. Dems and Reps had an equal role in this mess, hell, the citizens had the most to do with it really. But instead of looking at the whole issue all you want to do is keep pointing fingers ... as long as you are pointing you are NOT working.
KittenKoder
Senior Member
There is a glimmer of hope that maybe he will see what's wrong ... but mostly because at this moment I have nothing better to do.
DiamondDave
Army Vet
No... I am not perceiving you thru a "conservative bias"... I am perceiving you as one posting something with an OBVIOUS slant, agenda, and bias... under the false premise of "trying to understand" or be "objective"....
You make obvious attempts to interject your snarky assumption in the middle of some snippets of things others have said, to make yourself look somewhat credible, while trying to appeal to the extremists on the side of your self admitted leftist bias
If you really wanted to gain an understanding... you would leave the OBVIOUS snarky comments out
DiamondDave
Army Vet
No... there is no glimmer of hope for the ass clown....
Helll.. the stupid ****** cannot even understand what an ignore list is... you see it all the time when someone else quotes the ****** from a post where he is trying to personally respond to one of my posts like they are talking to me... though I have them on the ignore list, do not see the ass clown's posts (unless they are quoted by someone else) and I never respond to the twit...
Hell... the dumb ass sent me a PM today... which I don't see because they are on the ignore list.... and thinks I will somehow see the body of the message or respond.... bobo is about as sharp as a bowling ball
KittenKoder
Senior Member
This is the one reason you and I often disagree ... first, there is always hope. Secondly this is your own biased opinion based entirely on the party they support or are affiliated.
Here's how it's easy to tell: Remember, I support more Democrats than I do Republicans, I am also more liberal than conservative (except where corporations are concerned). However I do not pretend that either side did worse than the other, they both fucked up. I only pointed out Bobo's same flaw.
Coloradomtnman
Rational and proud of it.
- Thread starter
- #98
So, you are accusing me of lying or misleading others with this thread. Instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt that perhaps what you think of as snarky, I instead think of as what conservatives actually think or perceive. Can you point out my attacks in this thread, Dave? I'm sure that you see the things I wrote with an objective point of view. You'll pardon me if I come across as a little snarky in this post, having been accused of lying.
Is it that you assume liberals are lying and misleading others to achieve their ulterior motives? Isn't that somewhat different from the conservative tenet that people are inherently good?
DiamondDave
Army Vet
Nope... because I enjoy conversations and debates with others who are DEMs and even liberal DEMs... I don't care if he were a RW clown... I have some of them on ignore too... such as KMAN...
And no... for some people there is no hope... kinda like you don't rehabilitate a John Wayne Gacy back into society... bobo the assclown is a troll.. plain and simple.. and there is no hope to change that behavior except to ignore the asshole... and the more people that do, the faster the assclown will go somewhere else for their need for attention
DiamondDave
Army Vet
As stated.. why don't you actually go by the statement sand stances... rather than your ASSumptions such as
"5. Conservatives would mostly agree that: The way things are in American society are mostly bad, because of teaching wrong things about Christianity in public schools, liberal media bias, liberal immorality, abortion, homosexuality, and widespread crime and drug use."
I don't assume all liberals are lying... some truly believe in much about their cause.... I think they are mainly misguided because they love to 'take care' of others, as long as it is at the forced expense of everyone else...
But there are some that try the manipulation, such as the example of your little OP... in some deluded attempt to appear to subjectively research and understand... all the while it is simply a vehicle to add in their little slogans and smartass remarks, to paint conservative stances in the 'evil' light that you very much want it to be to advance your admitted agenda/bias
If you are supposedly trying to 'understand' and get what the actual stances are.... leave out the obvious snarky comments that are there to incite an angry response... go with the truthful reporting and analysis... you would be taken more seriously and treated as a person with an open mind and TRULY trying to understand, rather than quickly being perceived as more like bobo
Similar threads
New Topics
-
New Yorks version of remedial justice, rapists are people too.- Started by the watcher
- Replies: 0
-
Keeping ICE away from polling places a top priority for Democrats- Started by LeftofLeft
- Replies: 11
-
Trump's New Nuclear Nightmare in Iran - "This may be the worst planned war in history."- Started by C_Clayton_Jones
- Replies: 16
-
-
Make no mistake about it - the democrat party absolutely hates America.- Started by Locke11_21
- Replies: 19
