All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: We could argue about this until hell freezes over, and not get anywhere.

They became citizens to the "Territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied." "Hereinafter described as Palestine."

It was Palestine before the Mandate and it is still Palestine.
Could you clarify your point?

(COMMENT)

The territory to which the Mandate applied was given the name Palestine under paragraph 1 of the Palestine Order in Council. However, the name "Palestine" (westernized) comes to us to identify an undefined territory (generalized region) somewhere in the Levant reaching back (at least) two Millenium. But during the time of the Ottoman Empire, the names were as indicated by the map insert. Again, these names are western translations from Arabic and regional dialects.

View attachment 448489
​

As an outcome of the Great War, and a product of the decisions made by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers as victors of the Great War, there were a series of accords, agreements, treatises, and treaties that lead to the contemporary sovereign boundaries; as well as the delimitations as a remnant of the Oslo Accords.

View attachment 448504
​

The map insert (supra) is an approximation to the reality of the day.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK. so?

Did the people change with the name, or were they the same people who had been there for the last two Millennium?

What “the same people who had been there for the last two Millennium?”

link?

I don't know. That's what I was asking Rocco.

 

[rylah]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: We could argue about this until hell freezes over, and not get anywhere.

They became citizens to the "Territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied." "Hereinafter described as Palestine."

It was Palestine before the Mandate and it is still Palestine.
Could you clarify your point?

(COMMENT)

The territory to which the Mandate applied was given the name Palestine under paragraph 1 of the Palestine Order in Council. However, the name "Palestine" (westernized) comes to us to identify an undefined territory (generalized region) somewhere in the Levant reaching back (at least) two Millenium. But during the time of the Ottoman Empire, the names were as indicated by the map insert. Again, these names are western translations from Arabic and regional dialects.

View attachment 448489
​

As an outcome of the Great War, and a product of the decisions made by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers as victors of the Great War, there were a series of accords, agreements, treatises, and treaties that lead to the contemporary sovereign boundaries; as well as the delimitations as a remnant of the Oslo Accords.

View attachment 448504
​

The map insert (supra) is an approximation to the reality of the day.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK. so?

Did the people change with the name, or were they the same people who had been there for the last two Millennium?

What “the same people who had been there for the last two Millennium?”

link?

I don't know. That's what I was asking Rocco.

Let me get this nonesense -

people who carry names of foreign places,
and can't even pronounce 'P-alestine',

"had been there for two millenia"??

Guess some are really slow learners...

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I thought this was a joke question, coming from a pro-Palestinian Arab.

What “the same people who had been there for the last two Millennium?”
link?

I don't know. That's what I was asking Rocco.

(COMMENT)

The history plays (in a very limited thumbnail view) like this:

◈ 141-63BC -- The Jews established a sovereign Jewish State, when the Seleucid garrison in Jerusalem was abandon. That status quo remained until the Romans (Pompey the Great) militarily stretched Romes control over Palestine.​

The region did NOT have another major evolutionary change until:

◈ 636 - 638AD -- The region we call Palestine today (specifically Jersualem then) was captured by the Rashidun Caliphate Army Commanded by Abu Ubaidah ibn al-Jarrah.​

What did you learn from this answer?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: We could argue about this until hell freezes over, and not get anywhere.

They became citizens to the "Territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied." "Hereinafter described as Palestine."

It was Palestine before the Mandate and it is still Palestine.
Could you clarify your point?

(COMMENT)

The territory to which the Mandate applied was given the name Palestine under paragraph 1 of the Palestine Order in Council. However, the name "Palestine" (westernized) comes to us to identify an undefined territory (generalized region) somewhere in the Levant reaching back (at least) two Millenium. But during the time of the Ottoman Empire, the names were as indicated by the map insert. Again, these names are western translations from Arabic and regional dialects.

View attachment 448489
​

As an outcome of the Great War, and a product of the decisions made by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers as victors of the Great War, there were a series of accords, agreements, treatises, and treaties that lead to the contemporary sovereign boundaries; as well as the delimitations as a remnant of the Oslo Accords.

View attachment 448504
​

The map insert (supra) is an approximation to the reality of the day.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK. so?

Did the people change with the name, or were they the same people who had been there for the last two Millennium?

What “the same people who had been there for the last two Millennium?”

link?

I don't know. That's what I was asking Rocco.

So... you were making a statement you knew was false?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I thought this was a joke question, coming from a pro-Palestinian Arab.

What “the same people who had been there for the last two Millennium?”
link?

I don't know. That's what I was asking Rocco.

(COMMENT)

The history plays (in a very limited thumbnail view) like this:

◈ 141-63BC -- The Jews established a sovereign Jewish State, when the Seleucid garrison in Jerusalem was abandon. That status quo remained until the Romans (Pompey the Great) militarily stretched Romes control over Palestine.​

The region did NOT have another major evolutionary change until:

◈ 636 - 638AD -- The region we call Palestine today (specifically Jersualem then) was captured by the Rashidun Caliphate Army Commanded by Abu Ubaidah ibn al-Jarrah.​

What did you learn from this answer?

Most Respectfully,
R

So, when were all of the indigenous Palestinians removed and replaced by a different people?

 

[toastman]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I thought this was a joke question, coming from a pro-Palestinian Arab.

What “the same people who had been there for the last two Millennium?”
link?

I don't know. That's what I was asking Rocco.

(COMMENT)

The history plays (in a very limited thumbnail view) like this:

◈ 141-63BC -- The Jews established a sovereign Jewish State, when the Seleucid garrison in Jerusalem was abandon. That status quo remained until the Romans (Pompey the Great) militarily stretched Romes control over Palestine.​

The region did NOT have another major evolutionary change until:

◈ 636 - 638AD -- The region we call Palestine today (specifically Jersualem then) was captured by the Rashidun Caliphate Army Commanded by Abu Ubaidah ibn al-Jarrah.​

What did you learn from this answer?

Most Respectfully,
R

So, when were all of the indigenous Palestinians removed and replaced by a different people?

Yet another dance ‘n duck byTinmore! This time, he answers a question with another question!

 

[Hollie]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I thought this was a joke question, coming from a pro-Palestinian Arab.

What “the same people who had been there for the last two Millennium?”
link?

I don't know. That's what I was asking Rocco.

(COMMENT)

The history plays (in a very limited thumbnail view) like this:

◈ 141-63BC -- The Jews established a sovereign Jewish State, when the Seleucid garrison in Jerusalem was abandon. That status quo remained until the Romans (Pompey the Great) militarily stretched Romes control over Palestine.​

The region did NOT have another major evolutionary change until:

◈ 636 - 638AD -- The region we call Palestine today (specifically Jersualem then) was captured by the Rashidun Caliphate Army Commanded by Abu Ubaidah ibn al-Jarrah.​

What did you learn from this answer?

Most Respectfully,
R

So, when were all of the indigenous Palestinians removed and replaced by a different people?

You need an assist with terms and definitions. A great many of the Arabs-Moslems occupying the land area designated as Palestine by the British Mandate were removed by the combined Arab armies which crossed the frontier as they brought a war of aggression to Israel.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: This is a question we have discusssxed many time in the past. It is a question about forces at work in Human Dedvelopment that change cultures and the disposition of peoples. To recap something you should already know:

◈ Ranking on the UN Human Development Index for 2020: Israel:........19th on the Humand Development Index (Tied with Japan)​

◈ Ranking on the UN Human Development Index for 2020: Lebanon:...92d on the Humand Development Index​

◈ Ranking on the UN Human Development Index for 2020: Syria:.......151st on the Humand Development Index​

◈ Ranking on the UN Human Development Index for 2020: Jordan:....102d on the Humand Development Index​

◈ Ranking on the UN Human Development Index for 2020: Egypt:......116th on the Humand Development Index​

◈ Ranking on the UN Human Development Index for 2020: Palestine: 115th on the Humand Development Index​

What is important here is that there is no "state" in the Middle EastNorth African Region (MENA) or the Persian Gulf Countries that rates higher than Israel. Of the Arab League, MENA, and Persian Gulf States, the closest state in the HDI Ranking is the United Arab Emirates (UAE) at 31st position on TABLE 1 • Human Development Index and its components which includes:

◈ Longevity,​

◈ Education​

◈ The per capita Income​

​

Just as a point of reference: Any staate that ranks higher than the 66th level is considered to be in the group rated: VERY HIGH in Human Development. I mention this because the cluster of Arab League Countries immediately adjacent to Israel are all below that level. And it is important to note that the States and the Palestinian Territories in dispute, ALL rank HIGH in Human Development.

◈ Saudi Arabia ranks 40th​

◈ Bahrain ranks 42d​

◈ Qatar ranks 45th​

◈ Oman Ranks 60th​

◈ Kuwait rank 64th​

The significance here is that the Arab Palestinians are not in any great distress or being victimized by Israel. The Arab Palestinians are on par, in terms of Human Development with: Samoa, Venezuela, South Africa, Egypt, Marshall Islands, and Vietnam (all ranked HIGH in Human Development).

So, when were all of the indigenous Palestinians removed and replaced by a different people?

(COMMENT)

I'm note sure there is an unasailable definition for the "Indigenous Palestinians." Since the time Alexander the Great the region called today Palestine, the territory has been ruled by the Greeks, Egyptians, Syrian Seleucids, The Jews, Romans, The Mamelukes, and The Ottomans. With cultural turnovers like that - spanning 2000 years (+), what does it mean to be an "Indigenous Palestinian?" Does the question even have any meaning. The Nabatean culture, also Semitic, disappeared entirely from the Middle East leaving virtually no anthorpological trail as to where they went; yet the culture covered the territories of Syria, Arabia, and Palestine.

So, I'm not sure even have an answer to go with your question. Just as I am having difficulty understanding the relevance of the question. If your trying to use the question to establish some sort of prior claim, then you are being foolish. The world does not work that way.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'm note sure there is an unasailable definition for the "Indigenous Palestinians." Since the time Alexander the Great the region called today Palestine, the territory has been ruled by the Greeks, Egyptians, Syrian Seleucids, The Jews, Romans, The Mamelukes, and The Ottomans. With cultural turnovers like that - spanning 2000 years (+), what does it mean to be an "Indigenous Palestinian?"

Superior duck.

That doesn't have anything to do with my question.

 

[P F Tinmore]

◈ Ranking on the UN Human Development Index for 2020: Israel:........19th on the Humand Development Index (Tied with Japan)

With what Israel has stolen and mooched, it should be number one.

 

[Hollie]

◈ Ranking on the UN Human Development Index for 2020: Israel:........19th on the Humand Development Index (Tied with Japan)

With what Israel has stolen and mooched, it should be number one.

More of your usual, pointless slogans.

 

[toastman]

I'm note sure there is an unasailable definition for the "Indigenous Palestinians." Since the time Alexander the Great the region called today Palestine, the territory has been ruled by the Greeks, Egyptians, Syrian Seleucids, The Jews, Romans, The Mamelukes, and The Ottomans. With cultural turnovers like that - spanning 2000 years (+), what does it mean to be an "Indigenous Palestinian?"

Superior duck.

That doesn't have anything to do with my question.

Says the king of ducking and dancing! It’s bad enough that you’re a lying propagandist, now you got to be a hypocrite too ?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Yes, I did not think that you could define "Indigenous Palestinians" yet challenge me to answer a question of that which is undefined.

So, when were all of the indigenous Palestinians removed and replaced by a different people?

I'm not sure there is an unassailable definition for the "Indigenous Palestinians." Since the time Alexander the Great the region called today Palestine, the territory has been ruled by the Greeks, Egyptians, Syrian Seleucids, The Jews, Romans, The Mamelukes, and The Ottomans. With cultural turnovers like that - spanning 2000 years (+), what does it mean to be an "Indigenous Palestinian?"

Superior duck.
That doesn't have anything to do with my question.

(COMMENT)

It is the same fallacy as if I were to ask you what color is your "framastat?" Before the question can be answered, we must both agree on what a "framastat" is...
Is my answer ducking the question? (RHETORICAL) NO! → Why? → Because you cannot define who the "Indigenous Palestinians" were - or - tell me what people were the first to be native to the territory under discussion; even after I offered a number of possible solutions.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Yes, I did not think that you could define "Indigenous Palestinians" yet challenge me to answer a question of that which is undefined.

So, when were all of the indigenous Palestinians removed and replaced by a different people?

I'm not sure there is an unassailable definition for the "Indigenous Palestinians." Since the time Alexander the Great the region called today Palestine, the territory has been ruled by the Greeks, Egyptians, Syrian Seleucids, The Jews, Romans, The Mamelukes, and The Ottomans. With cultural turnovers like that - spanning 2000 years (+), what does it mean to be an "Indigenous Palestinian?"

Superior duck.
That doesn't have anything to do with my question.

(COMMENT)

It is the same fallacy as if I were to ask you what color is your "framastat?" Before the question can be answered, we must both agree on what a "framastat" is...
Is my answer ducking the question? (RHETORICAL) NO! → Why? → Because you cannot define who the "Indigenous Palestinians" were - or - tell me what people were the first to be native to the territory under discussion; even after I offered a number of possible solutions.

Most Respectfully,
R

Is my answer ducking the question?

Yes. My Question was about the change of people. Your answer was about the change of rulers.

My question was apples. Your answer was oranges.

 

[Hollie]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Yes, I did not think that you could define "Indigenous Palestinians" yet challenge me to answer a question of that which is undefined.

So, when were all of the indigenous Palestinians removed and replaced by a different people?

I'm not sure there is an unassailable definition for the "Indigenous Palestinians." Since the time Alexander the Great the region called today Palestine, the territory has been ruled by the Greeks, Egyptians, Syrian Seleucids, The Jews, Romans, The Mamelukes, and The Ottomans. With cultural turnovers like that - spanning 2000 years (+), what does it mean to be an "Indigenous Palestinian?"

Superior duck.
That doesn't have anything to do with my question.

(COMMENT)

It is the same fallacy as if I were to ask you what color is your "framastat?" Before the question can be answered, we must both agree on what a "framastat" is...
Is my answer ducking the question? (RHETORICAL) NO! → Why? → Because you cannot define who the "Indigenous Palestinians" were - or - tell me what people were the first to be native to the territory under discussion; even after I offered a number of possible solutions.

Most Respectfully,
R

Is my answer ducking the question?

Yes. My Question was about the change of people. Your answer was about the change of rulers.

My question was apples. Your answer was oranges.

Why is it you don't understand the question you're asking?

 

[rylah]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I thought this was a joke question, coming from a pro-Palestinian Arab.

What “the same people who had been there for the last two Millennium?”
link?

I don't know. That's what I was asking Rocco.

(COMMENT)

The history plays (in a very limited thumbnail view) like this:

◈ 141-63BC -- The Jews established a sovereign Jewish State, when the Seleucid garrison in Jerusalem was abandon. That status quo remained until the Romans (Pompey the Great) militarily stretched Romes control over Palestine.​

The region did NOT have another major evolutionary change until:

◈ 636 - 638AD -- The region we call Palestine today (specifically Jersualem then) was captured by the Rashidun Caliphate Army Commanded by Abu Ubaidah ibn al-Jarrah.​

What did you learn from this answer?

Most Respectfully,
R

So, when were all of the indigenous Palestinians removed and replaced by a different people?

Your question is an attempt to assume fallacy for fact,
when it's a contradiction of terms.

'Palestinians' in the local language,
was always used to refer to foreigners and invaders.
They were never indigenous to begin with, by definition.

The Jewish community though, has had a distinct civilization
and continuous presence in the land for the last 4000 years.

No other people have a claim even remotely close.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Your question was about the "Indigenous Palestinians." Oddly enough, the "rights of the Indigenous People" are defined (by a non-binding UN Resolution A/RES/61/295)
, but what constitutes the indigenous people is undefined.

Understanding the term “indigenous”​

Considering the diversity of indigenous peoples, an official definition of “indigenous” has not been adopted by any UN-system body. Instead, the system has developed a modern understanding of this term based on the following:

• Self-identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member.​

• Historical continuity with pre-colonial and/or pre-settler societies ​

• Strong link to territories and surrounding natural resources ​

• Distinct social, economic or political systems ​

• Distinct language, culture and beliefs​

• Form non-dominant groups of society• Resolve to maintain and reproduce their ancestral environments and systems as distinctive peoples and communities.​

Yes. My Question was about the change of people. Your answer was about the change of rulers.
My question was apples. Your answer was oranges.

So, when were all of the indigenous Palestinians removed and replaced by a different people?

(COMMENT)

As I described in Posting 2648, the Arabs of Palestine are one culture, but the indigenous population of the territory was a culture that was completely different. Just as the Anasazi (Stone Dwellers) were indigenous people of the United States, so it is that the Nabateans (Stone Dwellers) were the indigenous people of the territories under discussion. Something else we are pretty sure of → is that the ancients were much higher on the Human Development Scale than their contemporaries of the day.

In both examples, those civilizations disappeared. What we do know is that present-day Americans were not related to the ancients civilization → any more than the present-day Arabs of Palestine are related to the ancients of their region.

I believe this to be just another instance where the Arab-Palestinians are trying to engrandize themselves with qualities and characteristics - not their own.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
SUBTOPIC: The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Your question was about the "Indigenous Palestinians." Oddly enough, the "rights of the Indigenous People" are defined (by a non-binding UN Resolution A/RES/61/295)
, but what constitutes the indigenous people is undefined.

Understanding the term “indigenous”​

Considering the diversity of indigenous peoples, an official definition of “indigenous” has not been adopted by any UN-system body. Instead, the system has developed a modern understanding of this term based on the following:

• Self-identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member.​

• Historical continuity with pre-colonial and/or pre-settler societies ​

• Strong link to territories and surrounding natural resources ​

• Distinct social, economic or political systems ​

• Distinct language, culture and beliefs​

• Form non-dominant groups of society• Resolve to maintain and reproduce their ancestral environments and systems as distinctive peoples and communities.​

Yes. My Question was about the change of people. Your answer was about the change of rulers.
My question was apples. Your answer was oranges.

So, when were all of the indigenous Palestinians removed and replaced by a different people?

(COMMENT)

As I described in Posting 2648, the Arabs of Palestine are one culture, but the indigenous population of the territory was a culture that was completely different. Just as the Anasazi (Stone Dwellers) were indigenous people of the United States, so it is that the Nabateans (Stone Dwellers) were the indigenous people of the territories under discussion. Something else we are pretty sure of → is that the ancients were much higher on the Human Development Scale than their contemporaries of the day.

In both examples, those civilizations disappeared. What we do know is that present-day Americans were not related to the ancients civilization → any more than the present-day Arabs of Palestine are related to the ancients of their region.

View attachment 449137​

I believe this to be just another instance where the Arab-Palestinians are trying to engrandize themselves with qualities and characteristics - not their own.

Most Respectfully,
R

Who is your choreographer? You still have not answered my one line question.

BTW, I bought a house in Mt Vernon. Now we are almost neighbors.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israeli settlers leave Palestinian kids bloodied, bruised in West Bank attack

 

[Hollie]

Israeli settlers leave Palestinian kids bloodied, bruised in West Bank attack

Any corroboration on this? Tirades coming from MNN (Mullah News Network), tend to, you know, skew the facts to present a certain viewpoint.