Alex Jones Callers talks about the Abolition of Jury Trials for Obamacare Penalty

[The2ndAmendment]

This thread belongs in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

[MENTION=34688]Grandma[/MENTION]

Are you claiming citizens have a Right to Trial by Jury if they violate the Obamacare penalty?

Obviously you don't understand the Bill. The penalty is under the jurisdiction of the IRS. As yet there's NO mechanism in place to enforce the penalty.

There is. You lied.

Administrative Asset Forfeiture.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

[MENTION=34688]Grandma[/MENTION]

Are you claiming citizens have a Right to Trial by Jury if they violate the Obamacare penalty?

Obviously you don't understand the Bill. The penalty is under the jurisdiction of the IRS. As yet there's NO mechanism in place to enforce the penalty.

There is. You lied.

Administrative Asset Forfeiture.

Actually, that's specifically prohibited by the ACA law itself.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're misinformed, not "lying".

 

[Moonglow]

If you are accused of a tax crime like evasion, then you can have a jury trial, if it is an audit then it's off to a tax court for a judge to determine the case..you can appeal..

 

[Moonglow]

[MENTION=34688]Grandma[/MENTION]

Are you claiming citizens have a Right to Trial by Jury if they violate the Obamacare penalty?

You are going to have to show that you don’t tbh.

[MENTION=21905]FA_Q2[/MENTION]

Administrative Asset Forfeiture that never goes before a jury. This is how the Obamacare penalty will be handled, this is already well known.

I should be paid to teach you guys this but,

Administrative forfeiture is an in rem action that permits the federal seizing agency to forfeit the property without judicial involvement. The authority for a seizing agency to start an administrative forfeiture action is found in the Tariff Act of 1930, 19 U.S.C. § 1607. Property that can be administratively forfeited is: merchandise the importation of which is prohibited; a conveyance used to import, transport, or store a controlled substance; a monetary instrument; or other property that does not exceed $500,000 in value.

Thank Hoover.......

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

This thread belongs in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

Yep, anytime you see "Alex Jones" mentioned that's a pretty good red flag.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Obviously you don't understand the Bill. The penalty is under the jurisdiction of the IRS. As yet there's NO mechanism in place to enforce the penalty.

There is. You lied.

Administrative Asset Forfeiture.

Actually, that's specifically prohibited by the ACA law itself.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're misinformed, not "lying".

Link?

The first 20 results on a google search says otherwise

 

[theDoctorisIn]

There is. You lied.

Administrative Asset Forfeiture.

Actually, that's specifically prohibited by the ACA law itself.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're misinformed, not "lying".

Link?

The first 20 results on a google search says otherwise

That's funny, because the first result from Google when I searched for it was this:

However, the IRS is limited in the ways it can collect the fine. The Affordable Care Act stipulates that taxpayers are not subject to criminal prosecution or penalty for refusing to pay. The IRS cannot place a lien on property, either, as it can when collecting back taxes.

The only way the IRS can collect the mandate fine is by taking it out of withholding or deducting it from tax refunds of those who receive one. The IRS has no way to collect the fine from people who do not participate in withholding – however, making it more likely they will receive a return.

IRS enforcement of Obamacare fines is limited - KCTV5

 

[Moonglow]

That is because the non-participation in the ACA is not a crime. It is considered a penalty...unless you get an audit...

 

[Moonglow]

For some reason 2nd amendment is Temple's twin.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

For some reason 2nd amendment is Temple's twin.

I wouldn't say that at all.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

That is because the non-participation in the ACA is not a crime. It is considered a penalty...unless you get an audit...

A penalty is a punishment for a crime, a punishment not approved by a Jury.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Actually, that's specifically prohibited by the ACA law itself.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're misinformed, not "lying".

Link?

The first 20 results on a google search says otherwise

That's funny, because the first result from Google when I searched for it was this:

However, the IRS is limited in the ways it can collect the fine. The Affordable Care Act stipulates that taxpayers are not subject to criminal prosecution or penalty for refusing to pay. The IRS cannot place a lien on property, either, as it can when collecting back taxes.

The only way the IRS can collect the mandate fine is by taking it out of withholding or deducting it from tax refunds of those who receive one. The IRS has no way to collect the fine from people who do not participate in withholding – however, making it more likely they will receive a return.

IRS enforcement of Obamacare fines is limited - KCTV5

It would great if your links actually provided quotes from the ACA itself. They don't provide any sources either.

 

[FA_Q2]

[MENTION=34688]Grandma[/MENTION]

Are you claiming citizens have a Right to Trial by Jury if they violate the Obamacare penalty?

You are going to have to show that you don’t tbh.

[MENTION=21905]FA_Q2[/MENTION]

Administrative Asset Forfeiture that never goes before a jury. This is how the Obamacare penalty will be handled, this is already well known.

Well known is irrelevant. What is not well known seems to be exactly what that term means. It does not mean that you lose your rights.


This is why I asked for a link. I think that you fundamentally misunderstand what an administrative forfeiture is. I outlined what I thought the process is and it turns out that I am pretty close. IOW, administrative forfeitures are NOT immune to a trial or judicial oversight. They are forfeitures ahead of the trial rather than behind it. You have the right to contest the forfeiture and get your trial.

An administrative forfeiture is not really a proceeding at all in the judicial sense. It is more like an abandonment. In 2000, however, Congress substantially revised the rules governing administrative forfeitures to ensure that property owners are afforded due process. The procedural statutes governing administrative forfeiture procedures are 18.S.C.§§983(a)(1) and (2)(enactedbyCAFRA), and 19U.S.C.§§1602-1613. See United State v. $557, 933.89, More or Less, in U.S. Funds, 287F.3d 66, 77 n.7 (2d Cir. 2002) (procedures set forth in 19U.S.C.§§1602-1613 are superseded by CAFRA where inconsistent). Under CAFRA, the seizing agency must begin the forfeiture proceeding within a fixed period of time and must give the property owner ample time to file a claim. Then, if someone files a claim, the agency has another fixed period of time in which to refer the matter to a prosecutor for the commencement of a judicial forfeiture action, or to simply return the property.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usab5506.pdf

The question is, then, will the forfeiture be under a civil or criminal forfeiture as those seem to have different procedures to follow.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

The question is, then, will the forfeiture be under a civil or criminal forfeiture as those seem to have different procedures to follow.

It cannot be criminal, because of the manner in which the SCOTUS upheld it.

Also, we haven't even discussed how businesses will be punished by the mandate.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Link?

The first 20 results on a google search says otherwise

That's funny, because the first result from Google when I searched for it was this:

However, the IRS is limited in the ways it can collect the fine. The Affordable Care Act stipulates that taxpayers are not subject to criminal prosecution or penalty for refusing to pay. The IRS cannot place a lien on property, either, as it can when collecting back taxes.

The only way the IRS can collect the mandate fine is by taking it out of withholding or deducting it from tax refunds of those who receive one. The IRS has no way to collect the fine from people who do not participate in withholding – however, making it more likely they will receive a return.

IRS enforcement of Obamacare fines is limited - KCTV5

It would great if your links actually provided quotes from the ACA itself. They don't provide any sources either.

It would have been even better if you'd bothered to back up your ridiculously false claims to begin with. What happened to those 20 google results that supposedly backed you up?

Here's the relevant text from the law, though:

‘‘(2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision
of law—
‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of
any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed
by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any
criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary
shall not—
‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property
of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the
penalty imposed by this section, or
‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to
such failure.’’.

It's on page 131: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-111publ148/pdf/PLAW-111publ148.pdf