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ahmaund arbery trial getting closer

Turtlesoup

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If they didn't have guns out Arbery couldn't have been shot. You're avoiding facts because they don't fit your narrative that this wasn't an armed assault.
If Arbery didn't attack them trying to steal the gun, he wouldn't have been shot either. If they didn't have the gun out, arbery would have attacked probably injuring them severely or killing them if had been armed as previously before.
 

Curried Goats

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If Arbery didn't attack them trying to steal the gun, he wouldn't have been shot either. If they didn't have the gun out, arbery would have attacked probably injuring them severely or killing them if had been armed as previously before.
Good. Arbery would have every right to defend himself against three guys who chased him down and tried to detain him.
 

SavannahMann

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They said they told him to stop that they needed to talk to him.

His path was not blocked he had plenty of room to keep running which he did.

Post the law on aggravated assault in Georgia.

here it is and you are wrong...Aggravated Assault Charges in Georgi

What the prosecutors are doing is throwing a lot of crap up against the wall and hope something sticks.

They will be laughed out of town.

That’s interesting. Because when I got my Concealed Carry Permit in Georgia, I took a class, taught by a cop. This class covered when I could and could not pull the bang stick out of the holster. The cop explained that brandishing doesn’t exist in Georgia. The charge is aggravated assault.


But I suppose the Cop doesn’t know. And in the off chance it was not as the cop said. I consulted a lawyer I’ve used before. I spent an hour with him, paid for by yours truly. The idea was to spend a little money now, to avoid spending a hell of a lot of money later. And the Lawyer confirmed that holding someone at Gunpoint in Georgia is aggravated Assault. He told me depending on the circumstances the DA may decline to prosecute, but don’t take that chance. Avoid the possibility by putting the gun away when I was done.

Of course, what would a Lawyer know. He’s no internet expert like you.

I joined the USCCA and got a bunch of books on the things to do if you conceal carry. One of them covered the laws of your state. The section on Georgia confirmed that if you wave the gun around, you will be facing Aggravated Assault Charges.

So it’s three, to one. And that’s just my personal experience. But hey, what do they know? Just because they’re cops and lawyers obviously they don’t know the law nearly as well as you do. When are you coming to Georgia to explain to the Court that they are not interpreting the law properly?

So yes, I knew when I first heard about this case that the McMichaels did everything the Cop, Lawyer, and USCCA said not to do. Now, imagine you work at a factory. And the boss tells you that you should never touch the big red button unless someone tells you to. He says that if you do, and nobody told you to, you’re fired.

A week later, another new guy pushes the big red button. Nobody told him to. So what do you think would happen? I’d bet money that he would be fired unless he was someone’s relative.

So when I read about the case in Brunswick, I had a pretty good idea that the McMichaels had committed crimes. I mean, they did exactly what the lawyer told me to never do. In fact, they did everything the lawyer told me to never do.

Never try and do a Citizens Arrest. In Georgia it is a bet your life situation. If you are right, and have justification, then he goes to jail. If you’re wrong, you go to jail for False Imprisonment. The McMichaels set out to do what again?

Never wave firearms around. Aggravated Assault covered above. Yep. Big mistake.

Never shoot an unarmed man unless you are minding your own business and have no choice except to save your life. You can’t be the aggressor and get away with it. Not in this state. Um well shit. Guess what?

Final fuck up by the McMichaels? If God Forbid you ever do anything with a gun. Don’t say a fucking word until you have a lawyer present. Point out the evidence, identify yourself, give the cops your ID cards, Drivers License and Concealed Carry Permit, and then shut the fuck up. The lawyer actually said shut the fuck up. Seriously.

The McMichaels talked to the cops, without a lawyer. They went from dumb, to dumber, to dumber still, to holy crap how fucking dumb can they be?

It’s actually pretty simple. Shut your fucking mouth. Because all you are going to do talking to the cops is get yourself in more trouble. Let the lawyer talk.

I’m not saying the McMichaels would have avoided all of this if they had called a lawyer before running their mouths. But they might not be on trial for murder if they had shut the fuck up. And their own statements would not be part of the case against them. You have the right to remain silent. Use it for the love of all that’s Holy.

Oh and if you wonder. The USCCW says to say nothing to the cops until you call them and they send a lawyer, or make arrangements to help you hire one.

Tweedle Dumb, Tweedle Dumber, and Tweedle Dumb Junior did none of those things. They did everything that I was taught by three different unaffiliated groups/people told me not to do. So what am I supposed to think? The Idiots did it to themselves? Or they are poor political prisoners who are being railroaded by BLM?

This is Georgia. We don’t mind if you kill someone in genuine self defense. If you’re minding your own business, we are happy to exonerate you for the killing. If you’re the aggressor, well now you’re going to be spending some time in Prison for that. That’s just how we roll. And it is how we have done it for a long long time.


Nobody pressed charges against that woman. Nobody said boo to her. Oh a few family members might have complained, but there was no lawsuit and no criminal charges. Why? This is Georgia. She was minding her own damned business when bad guys broke into her house. She killed one of them. And nobody gives a Fiddlers Fuck about it.
 

SavannahMann

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If Arbery didn't attack them trying to steal the gun, he wouldn't have been shot either. If they didn't have the gun out, arbery would have attacked probably injuring them severely or killing them if had been armed as previously before.

Arbery’s actions are actually more in compliance with Georgia law than the McMichaels.
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

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If the McMichaels had wanted to arrest ahmaud all they would have needed to do was to get out of their truck when they first caught up with him and pulled out their weapons and ordered him to get on the ground.
They are not law enforcement officers therefore doing this or attempting to do this IS NOT LEGAL.
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

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If ahmaud had not attacked Travis he would be alive today.
I don't know what it is with guys, but I've trained 3 different individuals so that they could work for my company and every single one of them made the decision to solder through a situation that I would have extricated myself from in a heartbeat, in spite of my having trained them that their safety comes first before anything else they're doing, including anyone they're protecting (but not at their expense of course).

Ahmaud probably thought they were going to kill him anyway and figured he may as well go down fighting. Have you never heard how women are taught that if a guy has a gun on you and orders you to get in a vehicle to not comply? If he's going to shoot you make him do it there in the open instead of where he plans on taking you where you can be sure it will be secluded with no witnesses/ Of course the hope is that by calling his bluff it will afford you an opportunity to escape, but do everything you can to resist him transporting you somewhere else.

If Travis had not confronted him with a shotgun, the two McMichaels & their buddy Roddy would not have been sitting in jail for the last year+ nor facing the prospect of a murder conviction and spending the rest of their miserable lives doing time.

By the way, the T.V. new has been showing repeatedly a clip of two armed robbers coming into a convenience store with the intent to rob it and with a gun pointed at one of the customers who happened to be a military vet. The customer, in one motion, hit the guy's wrist from underneath so that it was pointing upward and then disarmed him. His buddy's couldn't get the door fast enough. Turns out the gunman was 14 years old.

Perhaps that is what Amhaud had in mind but was not in the proper position to get the gun away from Travis while not still in the line of fire.
 
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SavannahMann

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I don't know what it is with guys, but I've trained 3 different individuals so that they could work for my company and every single one of them made the decision to solder through a situation that I would have extricated myself from in a heartbeat, in spite of my having trained them that their safety comes first before anything else they're doing, including anyone they're protecting (but not at their expense of course).

Ahmaud probably thought they were going to kill him anyway and figured he may as well go down fighting. Have you never heard how women are taught that if a guy has a gun on you and orders you to get in a vehicle to not comply? If he's going to shoot you make him do it there in the open instead of where he plans on taking you where you can be sure it will be secluded with no witnesses/ Of course the hope is that by calling his bluff it will afford you an opportunity to escape, but do everything you can to resist him transporting you somewhere else.

If Travis had not confronted him with a shotgun, the two McMichaels & their buddy Roddy would not have been sitting in jail for the last year+ nor facing the prospect of a murder conviction and spending the rest of their miserable lives doing time.

By the way, the T.V. new has been showing repeatedly a clip of two armed robbers coming into a convenience store with the intent to rob it and with a gun pointed at one of the customers who happened to be a military vet. The customer, in one motion, hit the guy's wrist from underneath so that it was pointing upward and then disarmed him. His buddy's couldn't get the door fast enough. Turns out the gunman was 14 years old.

Perhaps that is what Amhaud had in mind but was not in the proper position to get the gun away from Travis while not still in the line of fire.

True story. One of the jobs I had before I joined the army was as a Security Guard on the night shift for a Grocery Warehouse. I was working one night, while the two others were on the gate, I went and did the clock run. That is where you punched all the clock points on the paper to prove you did the entire patrol. I came back and found the owner of the security company, contractors we were, at the gate guard house.

He asked me what I would do if while doing my patrol I found four men with Uzi’s, (popular at the time and not yet banned) loading a truck from the high value items cage.

I asked him to be sure I’d heard. “Five guys with Uzi’s? Have they seen me?”

“Yes.” He replied studying this 18 year old kid.

“I’d help them load that truck and drive them anywhere they want to go.” I answered.

My fellow guards laughed at this. But my point was, armed as I was with a stupid flashlight, there was nothing I could do against Uzi’s. Or any firearm. The smart thing is to cooperate and try to survive.

That being said, if I knew I was going to die, I would almost certainly attack. I’m no less dead, and I might just get to take one with me. The old Army Joke. What do you do if you’re in a foxhole surrounded by 500 enemy soldiers. Your answer is Kill them. Obviously you can’t kill 500 enemies. But if you can kill five, unlikely but hey, whatever, then the next guy only has 495 to face.

The most important thing in any situation, think. Never stop thinking. If you have a chance to do the unexpected and survive, do so. But if you are essentially cornered, you might as well fight. Worst case scenario you’re dead. But you’re dead anyway. There is a chance, a chance mind you, that you might take one with you. And even a slim, we’re talking almost nonexistent chance, to survive. Giving up is certain death. Might as well take the slim over the none.
 
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horselightning

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this is ridiculous. saying they repealed it on the grounds cops are better trained then civilians. thier doing this for black people who want to defund the police because they are not trained right. but blacks say the are trained right now to get the citizens arrest law repealed. the only state that doesnt have citizines arest law anymore. blacks use the word racist to minipulate and serve thier own selfish purpose. they just dont wanted to be arreste for commiting crimes.
 

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Well some interesting personal stories above and allegories above; having nothing to do with this case under discussion unfortunately.

So let us get back to what actually went down on that day this event happened.

First it has been shown that neighborhood had problems with thefts and that county has a very high incidence of property crimes...much higher than the national average

The citizens were aroused and made many calls to the police regarding their concerns over the situation.

In response the police replied that anyone who was having problems should contact Gregory McMichaels since he was a former law enforcement officer and investigator....in essence deputizing Gregory McMichaels as the go to guy for these complaints.

Also....I think it would be helpful to understand the law regarding making a citizen's arrest that was in force at the time of this incident with ahmaud arbery.

To Wit:

ITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE​

CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS​

ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS​

§ 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest​

O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest


'A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge.'

Now; those who have followed this case should remember that Gregory MacMichaels had said that when he left to pursue ahmaud (who he recognized as he 'hauled ass' down the street in front of the McMichaels house) that he had intended to make a citizens arrest which was legal under the law at that time.......since then we know that law has been changed due to political pressure brought by the media in response to the death of ahmaud.

However....the McMichaels never made a citizens arrest nor did they attempt to make a citizens arrest thus that point is moot.

I have not seen an explanation for why they did not but I am sure that will be discussed during the trial....and as one of the MacMichaels attornies has said ...many things will be revealed in the court that are not now known.

The McMichaels got into their truck armed as they did not know if the suspect was armed or not....from previous experience Greg knew ahmaud had a pistol and his mother has confirmed that and it is a matter of record ahmaud was arrested for carrying a pistol to the high school.

.....the McMichaels caught up with Ahmaud very quickly ....pulled up beside him and told him they needed to talk to him but he ignored them and continued his running.....no weapons were pointed at Ahmaud nor were they even displayed.

Now we should consider what possible reasons did ahmaud have to run?

As most know....running is a common behavior of criminals....we also know that just prior to ahmaud taking off running he had been observed in the house undergoing construction.

A guy who lived next to that house and finding ahmaud's presence there suspicious had stepped out of his house for a better look and then called the police to report the matter....and just as soon as he made the call ahmaud took off running...not a sign of a innocent man though we do not know exactly what ahmaud was doing in that house....it is certainly the case that Ahmaud knew he had no right to be there and most likely he took off running to get as far away as possible before the police arrived knowing he was on probation and trespassing would have been a violation of his probation and there would be repercussions for that and very possible---having to go back to jail....so all this was undoubtedly on ahmaud's mind as he tried to escape the scene.

So what happened after ahmaud refused to co-operate and continued to run.....it is not very clear --first of all...a neighbor has admitted he tried to manuever his car to slow down ahmaud who he believed was trying to be gone by the time the police got there but Ahmaud had no problem getting around the vehicle and continued to run.....

The McMichaels then drove to a point at least a hundred yards in front of ahmaud, parked their truck and greg got into the bed of the pickup truck to call the police who were enroute in order to let them know what was going on and the suspect's location.

Travis got out of the truck with his shotgun and stood to the front and left side of the truck and kept ahmaud under observation.

Whilst greg was on the phone Ahmaud had caught up with them....ran around the right side of the truck ....quickly darted to the left and commenced to assault Travis who was standing to the front and left side of the truck

Ahmaud struck Travis several times whilst trying to take his weapon...3 shots went off though it is unclear if it was the result of the struggle over the gun or if Travis consciously pulled the trigger....it has been pointed out that by pulling on the barrel of the gun ahmaud may have caused the discharge of the weapon himself.

That is it in nutshell....we could .....again.... go into lengthy discussion of the thoughts and motives of ahmaud...what kind of guy he was....his mental history etc. which has already been done over and over.....those who want to believe one way or the other will continue to do so...thus more discussion is a waste of time....the trial will begin soon...it should be interesting....though I am not confident it will be a fair trial....but we shall see.
 
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NewsVine_Mariyam

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First it has been shown that neighborhood had problems with thefts and that county has a very high incidence of property crimes...much higher than the national average
Which has nothing to do with this case, deadly force is not allowable to protect property.

The citizens were aroused and made many calls to the police regarding their concerns over the situation.
The citizens being concerned still does not allow anyone other than law enforcement to chase anyone down, demand that they stop or get on the ground or shoot them, particularly not to then pretend it was in self defense ("I was in fear for my life")

In response the police replied that anyone who was having problems should contact Gregory McMichaels since he was a former law enforcement officer and investigator....in essence deputizing Gregory McMichaels as the go to guy for these complaints.
I'm fairly sure that there is no such thing as transferring police powers to a civilian in the state of Georgia, and certainly not via telephone. Even the citizen arrest laws have very specific requirements none of which the McMichaels met. Why do you think cops are required to have their badges on display and identify themselves as police officers when making contact with the public. Some random jackasses on the street trying to "pull you over" are not to be given any credence.

ITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS​

ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSON​

§ 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest​

O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest

'A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge.'

Now; those who have followed this case should remember that Gregory MacMichaels had said that when he left to pursue ahmaud (who he recognized as he 'hauled ass' down the street in front of the McMichaels house) that he had intended to make a citizens arrest which was legal under the law at that time.......since then we know that law has been changed due to political pressure brought by the media in response to the death of ahmaud.
See this is what happens when they leave these fucked up laws on the books from the days of the slave patrols.

When did Gregory McMichael witness anything at all let alone a felony which is required to allow you to pursue someone who is attempting to flee after the commission of the felony? None of that happened.

Sometimes what you were attempting matters as much as what you actually accomplished. The McMichaels told the responding officers that they were chasing Ahmaud in order to affect a citizen's arrest in spite of the fact that 1) the McMichaels did not witness Ahmaud commit a crime, specifically, prior to them giving chase, and 2) even if Ahmaud had trespassed, which is not a given, trespassing is not a felony.

Ahmaud was NOT required to talk to them, to cooperate with them or to pay them any mind at all, what is preventing you from understanding that?
 
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Winco

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Well some interesting personal stories above and allegories above; having nothing to do with this case under discussion unfortunately.

So let us get back to what actually went down on that day this event happened.

First it has been shown that neighborhood had problems with thefts and that county has a very high incidence of property crimes...much higher than the national average

The citizens were aroused and made many calls to the police regarding their concerns over the situation.

In response the police replied that anyone who was having problems should contact Gregory McMichaels since he was a former law enforcement officer and investigator....in essence deputizing Gregory McMichaels as the go to guy for these complaints.

Also....I think it would be helpful to understand the law regarding making a citizen's arrest that was in force at the time of this incident with ahmaud arbery.

To Wit:

ITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE​

CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS​

ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS​

§ 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest​

O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest


'A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge.'

Now; those who have followed this case should remember that Gregory MacMichaels had said that when he left to pursue ahmaud (who he recognized as he 'hauled ass' down the street in front of the McMichaels house) that he had intended to make a citizens arrest which was legal under the law at that time.......since then we know that law has been changed due to political pressure brought by the media in response to the death of ahmaud.

However....the McMichaels never made a citizens arrest nor did they attempt to make a citizens arrest thus that point is moot.

I have not seen an explanation for why they did not but I am sure that will be discussed during the trial....and as one of the MacMichaels attornies has said ...many things will be revealed in the court that are not now known.

The McMichaels got into their truck armed as they did not know if the suspect was armed or not....from previous experience Greg knew ahmaud had a pistol and his mother has confirmed that and it is a matter of record ahmaud was arrested for carrying a pistol to the high school.

.....the McMichaels caught up with Ahmaud very quickly ....pulled up beside him and told him they needed to talk to him but he ignored them and continued his running.....no weapons were pointed at Ahmaud nor were they even displayed.

Now we should consider what possible reasons did ahmaud have to run?

As most know....running is a common behavior of criminals....we also know that just prior to ahmaud taking off running he had been observed in the house undergoing construction.

A guy who lived next to that house and finding ahmaud's presence there suspicious had stepped out of his house for a better look and then called the police to report the matter....and just as soon as he made the call ahmaud took off running...not a sign of a innocent man though we do not know exactly what ahmaud was doing in that house....it is certainly the case that Ahmaud knew he had no right to be there and most likely he took off running to get as far away as possible before the police arrived knowing he was on probation and trespassing would have been a violation of his probation and there would be repercussions for that and very possible---having to go back to jail....so all this was undoubtedly on ahmaud's mind as he tried to escape the scene.

So what happened after ahmaud refused to co-operate and continued to run.....it is not very clear --first of all...a neighbor has admitted he tried to manuever his car to slow down ahmaud who he believed was trying to be gone by the time the police got there but Ahmaud had no problem getting around the vehicle and continued to run.....

The McMichaels then drove to a point at least a hundred yards in front of ahmaud, parked their truck and greg got into the bed of the pickup truck to call the police who were enroute in order to let them know what was going on and the suspect's location.

Travis got out of the truck with his shotgun and stood to the front and left side of the truck and kept ahmaud under observation.

Whilst greg was on the phone Ahmaud had caught up with them....ran around the right side of the truck ....quickly darted to the left and commenced to assault Travis who was standing to the front and left side of the truck

Ahmaud struck Travis several times whilst trying to take his weapon...3 shots went off though it is unclear if it was the result of the struggle over the gun or if Travis consciously pulled the trigger....it has been pointed out that by pulling on the barrel of the gun ahmaud may have caused the discharge of the weapon himself.

That is it in nutshell....we could .....again.... go into lengthy discussion of the thoughts and motives of ahmaud...what kind of guy he was....his mental history etc. which has already been done over and over.....those who want to believe one way or the other will continue to do so...thus more discussion is a waste of time....the trial will begin soon...it should be interesting....though I am not confident it will be a fair trial....but we shall see.
Cool, FAKE STORY dude.
Your fantasy of the McMichaels being 'law abiding citizens' is faulty.
These Idiots are murderers.
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

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this is ridiculous. saying they repealed it on the grounds cops are better trained then civilians. thier doing this for black people who want to defund the police because they are not trained right. but blacks say the are trained right now to get the citizens arrest law repealed. the only state that doesnt have citizines arest law anymore. blacks use the word racist to minipulate and serve thier own selfish purpose. they just dont wanted to be arreste for commiting crimes.
The citizen's arrest law should have been repealed a long time ago as it is a remnant left over from the days of the slave patrols.

So when black people are complaining about things like this, we might just know a little something about it that you all don't.
The Racist Old Laws Justifying White-on-Black Killings Are Still Here
 

Persuader

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The citizen's arrest law should have been repealed a long time ago as it is a remnant left over from the days of the slave patrols.

So when black people are complaining about things like this, we might just know a little something about it that you all don't.
The Racist Old Laws Justifying White-on-Black Killings Are Still Here
First of all let me clarify once again that no citizens arrest was made by the McMichaels...nor was there any attempt to make a citizens arrest.

Thus that point is moot as was pointed out in my previous post.

All of that has been thoroughly gone over though some still refuse to accept even the basic facts of the case....thus as pointed out I am not going to keep going over and over that since it is a waste of time as in I can bring a jackass to the water but I cannot force him to drink.

Though I would like to point out why Georgia should not have abolished their law on citizens arrest.

Rooted in Common Law, Not Slavery

'In the months following Arbery’s death, numerous pundits and media outlets have decried the concept of citizen’s arrest as a racist outgrowth of southern slave codes.

That is simply untrue. The legal concept of “citizen’s arrest” is deeply rooted in English common law and was first codified in the 1285 Statute of Winchester, centuries before America’s founding and long before the development of slave codes. This common law tradition conferred on private citizens not just the right but the duty to apprehend criminal offenders.

In fact, the notion of a large, professional police force is a quite modern development. For most of Anglo-American history, the task of enforcing the law, bringing criminals to justice, and protecting the public safety was a community affair. When a crime was committed, a “hue and cry” was raised and a duty imposed on every person to search out and arrest the criminal.

This tradition of community law enforcement naturally was transported to the American colonies. Although the “duty” of the “hue and cry” gradually gave way to a nonmandatory “privilege” or “right” of citizen’s arrest, its recognition was universal.

Eventually, many states codified this common law privilege into their statutory codes. Today, every state except Georgia......recognizes some form of citizen’s arrest, either as a statutory right or a common law defense.


Repeal Will Hurt the Law-Abiding

The ability of private citizens to detain criminals who commit crimes in their presence is a benefit to all law-abiding Georgians, even in a modern society. Although Georgia, like all states, has hundreds of professional law enforcement organizations, the reality is that police officers rarely are physically present during the commission of crimes.

What’s more, the majority of local police departments in the United States are very small and employ no more than 10 full-time officers. Often, these few officers are responsible for tens of thousands of residents with little or no support from other jurisdictions.

So while we can and should rely on professional law enforcement officers as the preferred method of dealing with crime, it isn’t always practicable. Law-abiding, private citizens continue to play a meaningful role in their own protection, as well as in deterring crime and arresting criminals.

Of course, repealing the citizen’s arrest law would not affect the ability of Georgians to act in self-defense, which is covered by a separate statute. However, a blanket repeal nonetheless would lead to some absurd legal results.

Consider, for example, a scenario where a homeowner confronts an intruder in the middle of the night. Under the state’s self-defense statute, the homeowner would be legally justified in using a firearm to shoot the intruder, but not to detain the intruder until police arrived.

Instead, the act of forcibly detaining a criminal would be considered false imprisonment, because nothing in the law would authorize this use of force by a private person. In other words, you could use lethal force to deter crime, but not to detain the criminal caught in the middle of his crime.

Additionally, despite claims that Georgia law on citizen’s arrests often is abused or misused by private citizens, evidence suggests the opposite. I was unable to find a single publicized instance in recent years where a Georgian made headlines for a controversial citizen’s arrest.

On the other hand, a simple search through The Heritage Foundation’s Defensive Gun Use Database and local media outlets turned up plenty of times when Georgians properly used the law to detain criminals in a noncontroversial manner. Consider the following examples:

  • Alpharetta, Mar. 18, 2019: An armed good Samaritan heard gunshots as he drove by a bank and pulled into the parking lot to investigate. He discovered a man who appeared to have just shot a woman, and held the suspected shooter at gunpoint until police arrived. The suspect was charged with murder.
  • Jackson County, Feb. 22, 2019: A 79-year-old grandmother grabbed her handgun when she caught a man breaking into her home. She shot at the intruder twice and missed, but then successfully held him at gunpoint until police arrived over 10 minutes later.
  • Macon, June 13, 2018: Former Major League Baseball pitcher Kevin Brown caught two suspected mail thieves who had been ravaging his neighborhood, holding them at gunpoint until police arrived. Investigators said they recovered more than $3,000 in cash and $16,000 dollars in checks belonging to others. Police charged the two.
  • Atlanta, May 21, 2015: When a man attempted to carjack Hashim Fannin in a parking lot, police said, Fannin drew his handgun, ordered the would-be carjacker to lie face down on the pavement. Fannin held him at gunpoint for several minutes until police arrived.
These are the types of citizen’s arrests commonly carried out by law-abiding Georgians, who deserve legal protection when they detain criminals.

And yet, if Georgia repeals its citizen’s arrest law, all of these individuals would be guilty of false imprisonment or worse, because they would lack any legal authority to apprehend anyone, regardless of the circumstances.'

by
Amy Swearer@AmySwearer
Legal Fellow, Meese Center
Amy is a legal fellow in the Meese Center for Legal and Judicial Studies.
 
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Curried Goats

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First of all let me clarify once again that no citizens arrest was made by the McMichaels...nor was there any attempt to make a citizens arrest.

Thus that point is moot as was pointed out in my previous post.

All of that has been thoroughly gone over though some still refuse to accept even the basic facts of the case....thus as pointed out I am not going to keep going over and over that since it is a waste of time as in I can bring a jackass to the water but I cannot force him to drink.

Though I would like to point out why Georgia should not have abolished their law on citizens arrest.

Rooted in Common Law, Not Slavery

'In the months following Arbery’s death, numerous pundits and media outlets have decried the concept of citizen’s arrest as a racist outgrowth of southern slave codes.

That is simply untrue. The legal concept of “citizen’s arrest” is deeply rooted in English common law and was first codified in the 1285 Statute of Winchester, centuries before America’s founding and long before the development of slave codes. This common law tradition conferred on private citizens not just the right but the duty to apprehend criminal offenders.

In fact, the notion of a large, professional police force is a quite modern development. For most of Anglo-American history, the task of enforcing the law, bringing criminals to justice, and protecting the public safety was a community affair. When a crime was committed, a “hue and cry” was raised and a duty imposed on every person to search out and arrest the criminal.

This tradition of community law enforcement naturally was transported to the American colonies. Although the “duty” of the “hue and cry” gradually gave way to a nonmandatory “privilege” or “right” of citizen’s arrest, its recognition was universal.

Eventually, many states codified this common law privilege into their statutory codes. Today, every state except Georgia......recognizes some form of citizen’s arrest, either as a statutory right or a common law defense.


Repeal Will Hurt the Law-Abiding

The ability of private citizens to detain criminals who commit crimes in their presence is a benefit to all law-abiding Georgians, even in a modern society. Although Georgia, like all states, has hundreds of professional law enforcement organizations, the reality is that police officers rarely are physically present during the commission of crimes.

What’s more, the majority of local police departments in the United States are very small and employ no more than 10 full-time officers. Often, these few officers are responsible for tens of thousands of residents with little or no support from other jurisdictions.

So while we can and should rely on professional law enforcement officers as the preferred method of dealing with crime, it isn’t always practicable. Law-abiding, private citizens continue to play a meaningful role in their own protection, as well as in deterring crime and arresting criminals.

Of course, repealing the citizen’s arrest law would not affect the ability of Georgians to act in self-defense, which is covered by a separate statute. However, a blanket repeal nonetheless would lead to some absurd legal results.

Consider, for example, a scenario where a homeowner confronts an intruder in the middle of the night. Under the state’s self-defense statute, the homeowner would be legally justified in using a firearm to shoot the intruder, but not to detain the intruder until police arrived.

Instead, the act of forcibly detaining a criminal would be considered false imprisonment, because nothing in the law would authorize this use of force by a private person. In other words, you could use lethal force to deter crime, but not to detain the criminal caught in the middle of his crime.

Additionally, despite claims that Georgia law on citizen’s arrests often is abused or misused by private citizens, evidence suggests the opposite. I was unable to find a single publicized instance in recent years where a Georgian made headlines for a controversial citizen’s arrest.

On the other hand, a simple search through The Heritage Foundation’s Defensive Gun Use Database and local media outlets turned up plenty of times when Georgians properly used the law to detain criminals in a noncontroversial manner. Consider the following examples:

  • Alpharetta, Mar. 18, 2019: An armed good Samaritan heard gunshots as he drove by a bank and pulled into the parking lot to investigate. He discovered a man who appeared to have just shot a woman, and held the suspected shooter at gunpoint until police arrived. The suspect was charged with murder.
  • Jackson County, Feb. 22, 2019: A 79-year-old grandmother grabbed her handgun when she caught a man breaking into her home. She shot at the intruder twice and missed, but then successfully held him at gunpoint until police arrived over 10 minutes later.
  • Macon, June 13, 2018: Former Major League Baseball pitcher Kevin Brown caught two suspected mail thieves who had been ravaging his neighborhood, holding them at gunpoint until police arrived. Investigators said they recovered more than $3,000 in cash and $16,000 dollars in checks belonging to others. Police charged the two.
  • Atlanta, May 21, 2015: When a man attempted to carjack Hashim Fannin in a parking lot, police said, Fannin drew his handgun, ordered the would-be carjacker to lie face down on the pavement. Fannin held him at gunpoint for several minutes until police arrived.
These are the types of citizen’s arrests commonly carried out by law-abiding Georgians, who deserve legal protection when they detain criminals.

And yet, if Georgia repeals its citizen’s arrest law, all of these individuals would be guilty of false imprisonment or worse, because they would lack any legal authority to apprehend anyone, regardless of the circumstances.'

by
Amy Swearer@AmySwearer
Legal Fellow, Meese Center
Amy is a legal fellow in the Meese Center for Legal and Judicial Studies.
Hey fuckwit, maybe you didn't notice but all those examples included people happening on people in the commission of felony crimes. All the McMichaels saw was a black man jogging in the neighborhood.
 

Persuader

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Hey fuckwit, maybe you didn't notice but all those examples included people happening on people in the commission of felony crimes. All the McMichaels saw was a black man jogging in the neighborhood.
Lookie here NigNog dose examples were given to point out the stupidity of doing away with citizens arrest which Georgia has now done.....nothing to do with the McMichaels case you brain dead twat.

Whilst I am here I will reiterate once again boyo .....The McMichaels made no citizens arrest nor did they attempt to make a citizens arrest nor did they attempt to detain the suspect.
 
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DudleySmith

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My question. Is this and perhaps it’s the crux of the whole thing?
Why were several white guys following him around and inquiring as to what he was doing walking down the street?

He was caught casing a house, that's why, and then he tried to grab a guy's shotgun and got shot. Another Darwin Award winner, but the mob demands the white guys be killed too, never mind they had the same right to be on a public street as the fake 'jogger' did, and the guy had a right to keep his shotgun. What was this clown going to do with it if he had been successful at stealing it?
 

DudleySmith

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Arming yourself to detain someone is legally known as kidnapping or false imprisonment. Sorry racists, you don't have the legal authority to chase black men down the street with your guns and detain him because you think he's a criminal.

Sorry dumbass, but he was caught trespassing, and it was he who decided it would be great idea to try and steal a gun from its owner. If they were just out to kill themselves a poor hapless black guy for no reason they would have just shot the moron a lot earlier, dumbass.
 

Persuader

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Sorry dumbass, but he was caught trespassing, and it was he who decided it would be great idea to try and steal a gun from its owner. If they were just out to kill themselves a poor hapless black guy for no reason they would have just shot the moron a lot earlier, dumbass.
Of course and I have shown multiple times there was no attempt to detain him anyhow....all they tried to do was to get him to answer some questions to clear up what he was doing in a house under construction....who knows he might have been a carpenter bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
dese nignogs on here appear as dumb as ahhhhhhmaud. hehheh
 

Curried Goats

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Lookie here NigNog dose examples were given to point out the stupidity of doing away with citizens arrest which Georgia has now done.....nothing to do with the McMichaels case you brain dead twat.
Doing away with citizen arrest laws doesn't do away with castle doctrine or the right to self defense you racist coward.
Whilst I am here I will reiterate once again boyo .....The McMichaels made no citizens arrest nor did they attempt to make a citizens arrest nor did they attempt to detain the suspect.
That bit of delusional nonsense is discredited by the fact that the McMichaels chased him through the neighborhood, pulled in front of him and then excited their vehicles while armed to approach him. If their intent wasn't to detain him then what was it?
 

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