AGAIN... I'm not saying this... experts are... $20 trillion to up grade the power grid? Who will be paying ???

[healthmyths]

Who do you think will pay?

We the consumers will see much higher utilities' prices.
Part of which will be due to EVs and PART as an excuse for utilities to raise rates!
Just as the oil companies have done because of this one single remark by Biden!
A total excuse to raise gas prices because of this stupid statement!

"I guarantee We Are Going To Get Rid of Fossil Fuels”
September 06, 2019, 5:49 PM

Biden could have said this but his administration is classic foot in the mouth idiots!
This is what Biden should have said, thus making ALL parties united!
"I believe that fossil fuels have a very important role in our economy and the major companies are working on reducing Co2 emissions as we speak.
I can guarantee that we'll work with them on helping reduce Co2 emissions with the goal of Zero emissions by 2050!"

But I wrote the above and while Biden gave gas companies excuses to raise prices!
Stupidity!

 

[healthmyths]

From your link about 2030:

"In our base case (15% EV penetration by 2030 and a moderately optimized charging pattern), we estimate that retail rates will rise by 0.24 cents per kWh, an increase of roughly 2%. That increase will occur despite significant boosts in revenue from EV charging. In the optimized charging scenarios, and especially at low levels of penetration, the revenue hike nearly offsets higher costs and leaves rates essentially unchanged."

Wow what a scary boogeyman you have stumbled upon here, a 2% increase in electricity rates for moderately optimized charging pattern, or possibly as low as 0% increase. How much again to consumers spend on gasoline?

Hey thanks for finding the above statements.
Key caveat words: "moderately optimized charging pattern"...
That means almost all EVs will charge at home over night... you assume as the above.
There are the majority of housing units are single-family houses – about 82 million out of the total 129 million occupied units in 2021. These homes are mostly owner-occupied, but a small share is rented.

Topic: Single family homes in the U.S.

Find the most up-to-date statistics and facts on single family homes in the United States

www.statista.com

So what is the cost of creating a home solar panel system that will generate enough electricity to charge their EV?
A typical solar EV charging setup includes: rooftop solar panels, a central string inverter that combines DC output of the solar panels to AC, and a level 2 EV charger.
SolarReviews estimates that five solar panels are needed to charge an EV.

EGEB: Here's how much it costs to charge your EV with rooftop solar

Charging an EV with rooftop solar is cheaper than using grid power or public chargers; El Salvador commissions its very first wind farm.

electrek.co

2023 Solar Panel Costs | Average Installation Cost Calculator

Solar panel installation costs $10,626 to $17,640 on average. Solar panels cost $1.77 to $2.20 per watt and solar energy is $0.08 to $0.10 per kWh to produce.

homeguide.com

The average cost to install solar panels: $18,550 per home for 9 kW system.
Cost per year over 20 years or about $1,000 per year to charge EV with solar panels.

 

[AveMarica]

Key caveat words: "moderately optimized charging pattern"...
That means almost all EVs will charge at home over night... you assume as the above.

Nope. Again, read your own link.

• Optimized: 50% of charging occurs during off-peak hours and 50% during shoulder, mid-, or partial-peak hours. Overall, a significant portion of charging activity occurs where grid capacity is not constrained.
• Moderately Optimized: 33% off-peak charging; 33% shoulder, mid-, or partial-peak charging; and 33% peak charging. Some charging occurs in areas with capacity constraints.
• Nonoptimized: 25% off-peak charging; 25% shoulder, mid-, or partial-peak charging; and 50% peak charging. Significant charging occurs in areas where grid capacity is constrained.

You're telling me what I assume based on your own incorrect understanding of your own source.

 

[AveMarica]

Who do you think will pay?

You know that utility infrastructure is constantly upgraded right? Internet, electricity, etc. it is absurd to frame this as some new and unique challenge coming down the pipeline.

If you're very worried I can just refer you to the source provided healthmyths above, where it estimates that even at moderately optmized charging (where only 1/3 of EVs are charged off peak) your electricity costs would rise 2%.

 

[22lcidw]

You know that utility infrastructure is constantly upgraded right? Internet, electricity, etc. it is absurd to frame this as some new and unique challenge coming down the pipeline.

If you're very worried I can just refer you to the source provided healthmyths above, where it estimates that even at moderately optmized charging (where only 1/3 of EVs are charged off peak) your electricity costs would rise 2%.

Those politicians are supposed to work for us. Not vice versa. These changes most likely would occur without all of the theatrical Prog Socialist Communist Broadway Show fanfare. If we did not know how useless many of the politicians are especially Prog ones, we do now. We have seen textbook disregard for the taxpayers with Joe and the Gang. Enough to impoverish or lower the quality of life for tens of millions of people.

 

[Independent thinker]

Can the Power Grid Handle Electric Cars? — EV Connect

The power grid can handle the coming surge in electric vehicles, but utility companies must prepare for it now. Here are three things utilities can do today.

www.evconnect.com

According to the U.S. Department of Transportation, the typical American drives their car about 13,500 miles per year. A typical EV would require about 3,857 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity. For 26.4 million EVs, that’s over 101 terawatt-hours (TWh) of electricity in a year or about 2.5% of what the U.S. grid produced in 2020.
Although it’s a small percentage, it’s much more than what we’re currently asking of the electrical grid.

Can the Power Grid Handle the Growing EV Demand?
But it will take planning on the part of utility companies in order to handle it well. Without proper preparation, a scenario in which our busiest cities see their electrical grids regularly overloaded during peak-demand times is not at all far-fetched.
Consider a grid in a large city at around 6:00 on any given weeknight. Everyone just arrived home. They’ve turned up the air conditioning, started running the oven and microwave, and flipped on the television.
And, in an EV-heavy future, they’ve also plugged in their car for a recharge.
This creates a massive surge in demand, and it will quickly overload the grid.


View attachment 836774
This is what I've been showing regarding the "Unaccounted costs" for forcing migration to EVs.
Where will this $21 trillion come from? YOU and ME in higher electric bills!
BUT more importantly... what happens if the upgrading of the grid is slower than the expansion of EVs?
More black outs...

The Grid Needs A $20 Trillion Upgrade To Support Energy Transition | OilPrice.com

Upgrading the global electrical grid comes with a unique set of challenges including local opposition, skill shortages, and a financing problem.

oilprice.com

Is that on top of this, or is this included:

 

[healthmyths]

Ha.

I read billion for some reason. Just a mistake on my part, no need to be a dick about it

And no need to insult me for YOUR mistake!

 

[Resnic]

And no need to insult me for YOUR mistake!

I'm not the one being overly rude when simply pointing out the error would suffice. But I get it, you're the kind that has to get in the last word and feel like you're right. So respond away with whatever you want and I'll let the baby have his bottle.

Have a good day.

 

[healthmyths]

I'm not the one being overly rude when simply pointing out the error would suffice. But I get it, you're the kind that has to get in the last word and feel like you're right. So respond away with whatever you want and I'll let the baby have his bottle.

Have a good day.

As holds true with people like you .... you insult me because I correct YOUR mistake, and then say..'Have a good day"! What a hypocrite!

 

[healthmyths]

You know that utility infrastructure is constantly upgraded right? Internet, electricity, etc. it is absurd to frame this as some new and unique challenge coming down the pipeline.

If you're very worried I can just refer you to the source provided healthmyths above, where it estimates that even at moderately optmized charging (where only 1/3 of EVs are charged off peak) your electricity costs would rise 2%.

It's not electricity cost... It's the availability of electricity!

California Tells Residents Not To Charge EV Because Of Blackouts A Week After Saying State Would Ban Sale Of Gas Cars​

California residents are being told not to charge their electric vehicles due to possible blackouts just one week after the state announced it would ban the sale of gas-powered cars in 2035.

The state issued a heat advisory Tuesday, warning excessive heat “will stress [the] energy grid.”

“Consumers are urged to reduce energy use from 4-9 p.m. when the system is most stressed because demand for electricity remains high and there is less solar energy available,” the state said in the notice. “The top three conservation actions are to set thermostats to 78 degrees or higher, avoid using large appliances and charging electric vehicles, and turn off unnecessary lights.” (RELATED: Biden Admin Handed California The Power To Mandate Els Nationwide)

California Tells Residents Not To Charge EV Because Of Blackouts A Week After Saying State Would Ban Sale Of Gas Cars

Californians are being told not to charge their electric vehicles due to blackouts just after the state announced banning the sale of gas-powered cars in 2035.

dailycaller.com

 

[AveMarica]

It's not electricity cost... It's the availability of electricity!

Well you sure changed your tune from the post you started the thread titled "Who will be paying?" where you were lamenting the cost:

Where will this $21 trillion come from? YOU and ME in higher electric bills!

Sounds like you realized that 2% increase estimated in your link wasn't so scary, and when your attempt to fib about the definition of "moderately optimized" failed you've managed to desperately google up something else to focus on.

The electricity would come from the upgraded grid, which you already proved would only cost 2% higher electrical bills under moderately optimized charging patterns. You'll note the advisory was voluntary and first mentioned air conditioning thermostats, would you be suggesting we do away with air conditioning as well?