Affordable care that isn’t affordable

[Maryland Patriot]

But if a consumer used to pay a small amount toward insurance to cover the cost should HE need the procedure, thats value. If he is now paying 3 times as much to cover the procedure for others, thats cost.
the individual is paying more for less.

My guess is that most people DON'T take out what they pay in.

That is insurance. You pay for coverage should it happen.

But you hope it does not.

I expect I have paid way more in car insurance than what I have taken out. I am paying for those who don't drive so well (and hence take out more than they pay in.

Not sure what your meaning is because what you describe is basic insurance.

Lets use your car insurance example.
simple question. If you did not own a car, would you pay for the insurance on one?

No.

But that does not address your post.

When insurance companies are paying out a lot of money..they raise rates on all of us....whether we claimed or not.

Why would you pay more into a program that you will not qualify to receive any benefit from at a later date then?
the people that are going to be using it are the ones that should be paying.
and only those that pay in should be allowed to access those funds.

O.K.

That statement is different from the original.

What do you mean "pay in more than you will qualify to receive in benefits".....?

That makes no sense.

If people buy that...I'll start selling it !!!!!

considering you are proving that you really dont understand SS at all, why are you discussing it?
Wouldnt it be better to read and try to learn before you open your mouth (or type as the case may be)
And, if you operated a private system that ran exactly like SS did, you would be arrested for defrauding the public.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

My guess is that most people DON'T take out what they pay in.

That is insurance. You pay for coverage should it happen.

But you hope it does not.

I expect I have paid way more in car insurance than what I have taken out. I am paying for those who don't drive so well (and hence take out more than they pay in.

Not sure what your meaning is because what you describe is basic insurance.

Lets use your car insurance example.
simple question. If you did not own a car, would you pay for the insurance on one?

No.

But that does not address your post.

When insurance companies are paying out a lot of money..they raise rates on all of us....whether we claimed or not.

Why would you pay more into a program that you will not qualify to receive any benefit from at a later date then?
the people that are going to be using it are the ones that should be paying.
and only those that pay in should be allowed to access those funds.

O.K.

That statement is different from the original.

What do you mean "pay in more than you will qualify to receive in benefits".....?

That makes no sense.

If people buy that...I'll start selling it !!!!!

considering you are proving that you really dont understand SS at all, why are you discussing it?
Wouldnt it be better to read and try to learn before you open your mouth (or type as the case may be)
And, if you operated a private system that ran exactly like SS did, you would be arrested for defrauding the public.

Assuming SS = Social Security, I have to ask when that came into the discussion.

We are talking insurance.

Are you feeling O.K. ?

 

[Greenbeard]

So what part of the policy addresses making care more affordable? In terms of it's general structure, how can it? The cost of the services hospitals and clinics provide is not directly addressed.

The part that starts changing how care is delivered. Pay for health widgets and you get more widgets; inefficient at best, dangerous at worst. Pay for health and you get care models that do a better job of getting and keeping people healthy.

Now you've got provider reimbursements and care delivery models built around improving the health of the population. (And the community rating on the insurance side that you find so puzzling serves the same end. Insurers still rate based on health, they just have to do it at the population level now. It's now in their financial and competitive interest to think about the health of populations, just as it is for health care providers.)

That's the incentive structure that's reshaping the industry for the better.

Myriad factors are driving hospitals and care systems to address the nonmedical determinants of population health. Most notably, the Affordable Care Act implicitly and explicitly promotes a population health management approach to care delivery. Not only does this legislation expand health insurance to a majority of the United States population, it compels hospitals to address the socioeconomic, behavioral and environmental factors that affect people before hospital admission and after discharge. The ACA is accelerating the shift of reimbursement models from fee-for-service to value-based, a structure that promotes better health outcomes, improved quality of care, illness prevention and coordination across the continuum of care. Care systems are now being held accountable for the health of their patient population and are responsible for implementing health improvement strategies to address community health needs. Adopting a population-based approach to care that encompasses the spectrum of determinants of health is essential for care systems to thrive in the ACA era.

 

[dblack]

By forcing customers to buy their "service" whether they want it or not.

Like auto insurance, under ACA a person isn't forced to buy healthcare insurance, you can post a bond to protect taxpayers from a possible liability on your part.

Horseshit. Laws are force. Period.

 

[Arianrhod]

By forcing customers to buy their "service" whether they want it or not.

Like auto insurance, under ACA a person isn't forced to buy healthcare insurance, you can post a bond to protect taxpayers from a possible liability on your part.

Horseshit. Laws are force. Period.

And taxes are theft, right?

 

[dblack]

By forcing customers to buy their "service" whether they want it or not.

Like auto insurance, under ACA a person isn't forced to buy healthcare insurance, you can post a bond to protect taxpayers from a possible liability on your part.

Horseshit. Laws are force. Period.

And taxes are theft, right?

No. They're the price of admission. Stow your strawman.

 

[Arianrhod]

By forcing customers to buy their "service" whether they want it or not.

Like auto insurance, under ACA a person isn't forced to buy healthcare insurance, you can post a bond to protect taxpayers from a possible liability on your part.

Horseshit. Laws are force. Period.

And taxes are theft, right?

No. They're the price of admission.

But you're being FORCED to pay them.

 

[dblack]

By forcing customers to buy their "service" whether they want it or not.

Like auto insurance, under ACA a person isn't forced to buy healthcare insurance, you can post a bond to protect taxpayers from a possible liability on your part.

Horseshit. Laws are force. Period.

And taxes are theft, right?

No. They're the price of admission.

But you're being FORCED to pay them.

Yep. What has you confused?

 

[Arianrhod]

Like auto insurance, under ACA a person isn't forced to buy healthcare insurance, you can post a bond to protect taxpayers from a possible liability on your part.

Horseshit. Laws are force. Period.

And taxes are theft, right?

No. They're the price of admission.

But you're being FORCED to pay them.

Yep. What has you confused?

Your selectivity is puzzling, not confusing. Prior to the PPACA, was there any other form of "coercion" you objected to?

 

[dblack]

Horseshit. Laws are force. Period.

And taxes are theft, right?

No. They're the price of admission.

But you're being FORCED to pay them.

Yep. What has you confused?

Your selectivity is puzzling, not confusing. Prior to the PPACA, was there any other form of "coercion" you objected to?

Lots. You wanna list?

 

[Arianrhod]

And taxes are theft, right?

No. They're the price of admission.

But you're being FORCED to pay them.

Yep. What has you confused?

Your selectivity is puzzling, not confusing. Prior to the PPACA, was there any other form of "coercion" you objected to?

Lots. You wanna list?

It might help.

 

[dblack]

No. They're the price of admission.

But you're being FORCED to pay them.

Yep. What has you confused?

Your selectivity is puzzling, not confusing. Prior to the PPACA, was there any other form of "coercion" you objected to?

Lots. You wanna list?

It might help.

Uh... ok. In no particular order.....

The draft.
Minimum wage laws.
Abortion laws.
Drug laws.
DOMA.
PATRIOT ACT.

...

Have you ever read anything about libertarianism?

 

[Arianrhod]

But you're being FORCED to pay them.

Yep. What has you confused?

Your selectivity is puzzling, not confusing. Prior to the PPACA, was there any other form of "coercion" you objected to?

Lots. You wanna list?

It might help.

Uh... ok. In no particular order.....

The draft.
Minimum wage laws.
Abortion laws.
Drug laws.
DOMA.
PATRIOT ACT.

...

Have you ever read anything about libertarianism?

Yes.

I've also read thousands of posts by self-styled libertarians who apparently don't read each other's posts, unless they're about guns.

It's fun when y'all start nitpicking each other.

Will you be quoting Rand anytime soon?

 

[dblack]

Yep. What has you confused?

Your selectivity is puzzling, not confusing. Prior to the PPACA, was there any other form of "coercion" you objected to?

Lots. You wanna list?

It might help.

Uh... ok. In no particular order.....

The draft.
Minimum wage laws.
Abortion laws.
Drug laws.
DOMA.
PATRIOT ACT.

...

Have you ever read anything about libertarianism?

Yes.

I've also read thousands of posts by self-styled libertarians who apparently don't read each other's posts, unless they're about guns.

It's fun when y'all start nitpicking each other.

Will you be quoting Rand anytime soon?

Probably not. But she had a some good ideas. Any in particular that piss you off?

 

[Arianrhod]

Your selectivity is puzzling, not confusing. Prior to the PPACA, was there any other form of "coercion" you objected to?

Lots. You wanna list?

It might help.

Uh... ok. In no particular order.....

The draft.
Minimum wage laws.
Abortion laws.
Drug laws.
DOMA.
PATRIOT ACT.

...

Have you ever read anything about libertarianism?

Yes.

I've also read thousands of posts by self-styled libertarians who apparently don't read each other's posts, unless they're about guns.

It's fun when y'all start nitpicking each other.

Will you be quoting Rand anytime soon?

Probably not. But she had a some good ideas. Any in particular that piss you off?

The turgidity of her prose, mostly.

 

[dblack]

Lots. You wanna list?

It might help.

Uh... ok. In no particular order.....

The draft.
Minimum wage laws.
Abortion laws.
Drug laws.
DOMA.
PATRIOT ACT.

...

Have you ever read anything about libertarianism?

Yes.

I've also read thousands of posts by self-styled libertarians who apparently don't read each other's posts, unless they're about guns.

It's fun when y'all start nitpicking each other.

Will you be quoting Rand anytime soon?

Probably not. But she had a some good ideas. Any in particular that piss you off?

The turgidity of her prose, mostly.

Heh... well, I'm with you there.

 

[OnePercenter]

By forcing customers to buy their "service" whether they want it or not.

Like auto insurance, under ACA a person isn't forced to buy healthcare insurance, you can post a bond to protect taxpayers from a possible liability on your part.

Horseshit. Laws are force. Period.

Do you as a taxpayer want to be responsible for others liability?

 

[dblack]

By forcing customers to buy their "service" whether they want it or not.

Like auto insurance, under ACA a person isn't forced to buy healthcare insurance, you can post a bond to protect taxpayers from a possible liability on your part.

Horseshit. Laws are force. Period.

Do you as a taxpayer want to be responsible for others liability?

Horseshit. Laws are force. Period.

 

[OnePercenter]

Uh... ok. In no particular order.....

The draft.
Minimum wage laws.
Abortion laws.
Drug laws.
DOMA.
PATRIOT ACT.

...

Have you ever read anything about libertarianism?

Here's a link that may help you recover.

Libertarianism Makes You Stupid

 

[dblack]

Uh... ok. In no particular order.....

The draft.
Minimum wage laws.
Abortion laws.
Drug laws.
DOMA.
PATRIOT ACT.

...

Have you ever read anything about libertarianism?

Here's a link that may help you recover.

Libertarianism Makes You Stupid

Horseshit. Laws are force. Period.