Affirmative Action Some More

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
It really is useless to argue with a demagogue and party hack. I ask for some evidence that we are ready to abolish all AA laws with regards to race and I get zip. Is it any wonder RWA that you get the same comments in regards to your debating skills from members on both sides here? Are you getting the message?

At least I'm not a fake conservative like you. Sitting here justifying raced based discrimination, you're sick. This is the only reason you come to this site isn't it? you just parrot all other conservative issues and then your real self comes out on this issue. Hmmm. Now i see.

 

[OCA]

Yeah RWA, you are cool man and all knowing. Damn wish I could be a hack like you. Go back to the RNC home page so you can get more of your talking points.

I'm much more of a Republican than you as i'm a realist. I realize that their are on some subjects good points on both sides unlike you who is either too stubborn or not intelligent enough to understand that.

You are smart in one respect though, you refuse to acknowledge the racially biased history of America. Helps to avoid that one doesn't it?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by dmp
You have a history of minorities thriving...
You have a history which shows how very welcome this country has been to the VAST majority of immigrants...
You have a history of this country being the land of Opportunity...


I know people of 'other than white' ethnicity who have been in this country less than 10 years, and have 6-figure incomes (not including the digits AFTER the decimal ).

I know 'minority' people who thrive because they refuse to play the 'victim'.

(shrug)

Nobody is talking about the victim here. Do you think if there weren't laws in regards to race with business loans and etc. etc. that there would be the number of recent non-white minority millionaires and business successes. If our country had the same social atmosphere of pre middle 1960's would this be possible? The fact is based upon past performance much like a resume that whites if given the opportunity will many times discriminate. Hell this country was founded by racists.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
Yeah RWA, you are cool man and all knowing. Damn wish I could be a hack like you. Go back to the RNC home page so you can get more of your talking points.

I'm much more of a Republican than you as i'm a realist. I realize that their are on some subjects good points on both sides unlike you who is either too stubborn or not intelligent enough to understand that.

You are smart in one respect though, you refuse to acknowledge the racially biased history of America. Helps to avoid that one doesn't it?

I do acknowledge it, but it's in the past, it's history, like you said. It's gone away mosty without affirmative action. It didn't go away with reverse discrimination, it went away with discussions of tolerance from true civil rights leaders like MLK. Not neoreactionary racists like yourself. Yes, and I'm cooler than you could ever imagine, thanks for noticing.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
Nobody is talking about the victim here. Do you think if there weren't laws in regards to race with business loans and etc. etc. that there would be the number of recent non-white minority millionaires and business successes. If our country had the same social atmosphere of pre middle 1960's would this be possible? The fact is based upon past performance much like a resume that whites if given the opportunity will many times discriminate. Hell this country was founded by racists.

OCA. The republican party does not back the race based discrimination you love so much. DO you realize that. Go away fake conservative.

 

[_dmp_]

Originally posted by OCA
Nobody is talking about the victim here. Do you think if there weren't laws in regards to race with business loans and etc. etc. that there would be the number of recent non-white minority millionaires and business successes. If our country had the same social atmosphere of pre middle 1960's would this be possible? The fact is based upon past performance much like a resume that whites if given the opportunity will many times discriminate. Hell this country was founded by racists.

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
To abolish racism completely would be to enforce the discrimination laws, not enact more policies to favor one group that appears to have a disadvantage.

(shrug)

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
OCA. The republican party does not back the race based discrimination you love so much. DO you realize that. Go away fake conservative.

Okay hack

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
Okay hack

Felcher.

 

[Aquarian]

Can we agree that the end goal is to reach a point where society is fair to the individual thus allowing us to do away with affirmative action?

If we can, the decision comes down to whether or not it is still a necessary tool to prevent discrimination. I'd have to say that instances where it has caused reverse discrimination are on the increase. at some point, which may have already been reached, the reverse discrimination it causes will outweigh the benefit it provided in preventing discrimination in the first place. IMO, society is very very near the point where AA would be completely unnecessary. Not that society is that close to not discriminating across the board, but that there are sufficient alternative venues for most anything (college, employment, housing) that the recalcitrant institutions do not represent so grave a threat to equality...

DMP asked how to measure the effectiveness, and that's the real question. a measure must be defined, and if it is not effective it needs to be changed, no?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Aquarian
Can we agree that the end goal is to reach a point where society is fair to the individual thus allowing us to do away with affirmative action?

If we can, the decision comes down to whether or not it is still a necessary tool to prevent discrimination. I'd have to say that instances where it has caused reverse discrimination are on the increase. at some point, which may have already been reached, the reverse discrimination it causes will outweigh the benefit it provided in preventing discrimination in the first place. IMO, society is very very near the point where AA would be completely unnecessary. Not that society is that close to not discriminating across the board, but that there are sufficient alternative venues for most anything (college, employment, housing) that the recalcitrant institutions do not represent so grave a threat to equality...

DMP asked how to measure the effectiveness, and that's the real question. a measure must be defined, and if it is not effective it needs to be changed, no?

NO! Not more studies. It's immoral. It should end now. Using race discrimination to end race discrimination is idiotic on it's face, moreso even because they're PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS for god's sake. We might as well be forced to wear yellow stars, and be ghettofied as a freakin' official act of government. This is madness. It's only fueling people like William.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by dmp
(shrug)

Was my statement not clear? or do you not believe in discrimination laws either?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
Was my statement not clear? or do you not believe in discrimination laws either?

I believe he was using your statement as a rebuttal to others. It's a compliment!

 

[DKSuddeth]

I wasn't sure, had to ask so I could clarify or restate if needed.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I wasn't sure, had to ask so I could clarify or restate if needed.

I'm glad there's a cool head on your general side of the aisle dk. I do not get this fixation on aa. From oca? I don't get it.

 

[_dmp_]

Originally posted by Aquarian
Can we agree that the end goal is to reach a point where society is fair to the individual thus allowing us to do away with affirmative action?

I doubt the people who created AA have that as an 'end goal'. I'd speculate their 'End Goal' is to provide MORE advantages to people of colour - regardless of their true ethnicity, and to remove advantages from people w/ less pigment, again, regardless of true ethnicity.

Originally posted by Aquarian
If we can, the decision comes down to whether or not it is still a necessary tool to prevent discrimination. I'd have to say that instances where it has caused reverse discrimination are on the increase.

Discrimination is descrimination...The glaring problem with AA is that it uses SKIN COLOUR to award privledge.

Originally posted by Aquarian
DMP asked how to measure the effectiveness, and that's the real question. a measure must be defined, and if it is not effective it needs to be changed, no?

Exactly. Unless someone can develop a metrics to track and gauge the effectiveness of using skin colour as a factor in awarding benefits - how it benefits society as a whole, AA must be stopped/changed.

 

[_dmp_]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
Was my statement not clear? or do you not believe in discrimination laws either?

Your statement was spot-on...since you said it better than I could, I used your statement for my reply

 

[DKSuddeth]

The only thing I've seen AA accomplish is provide an avenue for two extra sets of racial discrimination. One that discriminates against other people to provide preference for a specific race and one that provides angry discrimination because it provides that same preferential treatment. Both are ultimately self defeating.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
The only thing I've seen AA accomplish is provide an avenue for two extra sets of racial discrimination. One that discriminates against other people to provide preference for a specific race and one that provides angry discrimination because it provides that same preferential treatment. Both are ultimately self defeating.

DK, I wholeheartedly agree. I am no fan of any type of racial deiscrimination, and AA falls squarely into that definition.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by dmp
Your statement was spot-on...since you said it better than I could, I used your statement for my reply

gotcha

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
I'm glad there's a cool head on your general side of the aisle dk. I do not get this fixation on aa. From oca? I don't get it.

Its not a fixation. In my opinion we are not at the point to where we are mature enough as a country to do away across the board with all race based anti discrimination laws such as AA. Would I like to see us get to that point? Absolutely. You feel that we are and I disagree, lets just leave it at that.

Believe me i'm not on the liberal side of the aisle 90% of the time. Sounds like to me you are ignoring my views on other subjects and fixating on this one.