Actual gun defense..robber has gun pointed at victims...and loses to armed good guy...

[2aguy]

And guns help deter "hot" burglaries for the whole community....

VII. Guns Compared to Other Anti-Burglary Devices

Gun ownership for home protection is considerably more beneficial to the community than many other anti-burglary measures. Burglars do not know which of their potential victims may be armed. Until a confrontation with a homeowner, the potential burglar generally has no idea whether any given homeowner has a gun.

Thus, careful burglars must (and most do) take care to avoid entering any home where a victim might be present. Because about half of all American homes contain a gun, burglars tend to avoid all occupied American homes. [FN112] People who do not own guns--even people who belong to gun prohibition organizations--enjoy free rider safety benefits from America's armed homes. This free-rider *362[FN113]

 

[Skull Pilot]

Ple
Please link to a gun accidentally killing a lot of people.

I must have missed that.

Go to google news and search accidental shooting. They are very plentiful.

As are defensive shootings.....brain......you state and defend the wrong number of 108,000 defensive uses of guns......you then state and defend 17,000 gun accidents each year with 6-700 accidental gun deaths each year (my number).......so by your own numbers...which you defend.....there can't be more gun accidents then there are defensive uses.....

Your numbers are wrong of course....but you state them and defend them......

If there are 100,000 defenses than only about 10,000 are defending violent crime. So 10,000 defenses of violent crime vs 17,000 people accidently shot.

As the others have said....anytime you are confronted by another human it is a violent situation.....since you can't read minds and they have already broken the law several times just by confronting you or getting into the position where there is a confrontation......and of the 17,000 you claim are accidents...only 6-700 result in death....out of over 320 million guns in private hands, with over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns for self defense....

It is so insignificant a number that it is just silly for you to hang your hat on it.......

Why are you guys so scared? You have pointed out most homicides are gang related. If you aren't involved in criminal activity this is a very safe country. Why do you think our country is so scary?

Being prepared to defend yourself or your family is not being fearful.

It's naive to think that you will never be in the position where you need to defend yourself, your wife or your kids

People are violent. They always have been. They always will be. It's axiomatic

 

[Skull Pilot]

Go to google news and search accidental shooting. They are very plentiful.

As are defensive shootings.....brain......you state and defend the wrong number of 108,000 defensive uses of guns......you then state and defend 17,000 gun accidents each year with 6-700 accidental gun deaths each year (my number).......so by your own numbers...which you defend.....there can't be more gun accidents then there are defensive uses.....

Your numbers are wrong of course....but you state them and defend them......

If there are 100,000 defenses than only about 10,000 are defending violent crime. So 10,000 defenses of violent crime vs 17,000 people accidently shot.

So who are the other 90000 defending themselves from?

And that is brains number....the real number of defensive gun uses is 1.6 million times a year on average....people stopping violent crime and saving lives......and that number is from both public and private studies, with anti gunner researchers in some cases, over a 40 year period.......also including the clinton era Justice Dept. and obama's CDC.....

Yes and only 232 criminals shot and killed in defense. Sure. I guess they all hesitate to shoot when pulling their guns right? Give up their advantage as you claim to the criminal? 100k is probably a high number.

Why do you have to kill someone?

One can use a gun in self defense without firing it you know

 

[Skull Pilot]

As are defensive shootings.....brain......you state and defend the wrong number of 108,000 defensive uses of guns......you then state and defend 17,000 gun accidents each year with 6-700 accidental gun deaths each year (my number).......so by your own numbers...which you defend.....there can't be more gun accidents then there are defensive uses.....

Your numbers are wrong of course....but you state them and defend them......

If there are 100,000 defenses than only about 10,000 are defending violent crime. So 10,000 defenses of violent crime vs 17,000 people accidently shot.

As the others have said....anytime you are confronted by another human it is a violent situation.....since you can't read minds and they have already broken the law several times just by confronting you or getting into the position where there is a confrontation......and of the 17,000 you claim are accidents...only 6-700 result in death....out of over 320 million guns in private hands, with over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns for self defense....

It is so insignificant a number that it is just silly for you to hang your hat on it.......

Why are you guys so scared? You have pointed out most homicides are gang related. If you aren't involved in criminal activity this is a very safe country. Why do you think our country is so scary?

Technically, I don't. But murder and crime happen everyday, in all parts of the world....including very safe places......the family in CT. was pointed out......the mom and the one daughter went to the store......the husband at home taking a nap....the other daughter busy doing her thing at the home...........and the mom and the daughter are followed home from the store by 2 monsters.....who proceed to beat the crap out of the husband with a bat, and then rape the mother and 2 daughters, and end up burning them alive in their home....

Tell me brain.......do you think anyone in that family thought that would be how their day ended?

Over 300 million people in the country. How often you think that happens?

If you want to live your life by statistics then feel free. I choose to be a little more proactive in my life

 

[Skull Pilot]

All crimes have the potential to be violent crimes.

If someone is brazen enough to break into your home while you are there do you not think they are willing to do you harm if needs be?

BTW you are naive if you don't

I think most burglars hope to take your stuff without you knowing. If they are alerted you are there most will take off. But don't take my word, go look at crime statistics.

Why don't you google Home Invasions(insert any city USA) and learn a little about what is going on, before you pontificate on what people need or do not need for protection in their own areas?

WTF is wrong with you people that can't just mind your own business?

Don't like the statistics? You don't need to be so scared.

Anyone who disagrees with you is scared?

Dream on.

Why are you so offended by statistics? Why do you get mad that your country isn't this scary place?

The country isn't scary but that doesn't mean that there aren't dangerous people in it now does it?

You are exhibiting naivete to the point of brain damage if you believe nothing can happen to you

 

[Brain357]

And here we go.....rapes and assaults during burglaries.......when the people do not have guns.....

B. Confrontation with Unprotected Victims

When burglars do encounter victims who cannot protect themselves, the results can be tragic. In thirty percent of these cases, the victim is assaulted or threatened. [FN101] In ten percent of these cases, the burglaries turn into rapes. [FN102] Over the ten-year period of 1973-82, this meant 623,000 aggravated (felony) assaults and 281,000 rapes. [FN103] [FN104]

C. In Homes and on the Street

Rengert and Wasilchick's book about how burglars work reveals that fear of armed homeowners played a major role in determining burglary targets. Burglars reported that they avoided late-night burglaries because, "That's the way to get shot." [FN63] Some burglars said that they shun burglaries in [FN64]

The most thorough study of burglary patterns was a St. Louis survey of 105 currently active burglars. [FN65] The authors observed, "One of the most serious risks faced by residential burglars is the possibility of being injured or killed by occupants of a target. Many of the offenders we spoke to reported that this was far and away their greatest fear." [FN66] Said one burglar: "I don't think about gettin' caught, I think about gettin' gunned down, shot or somethin'...'cause you get into some people's houses...quick as I come in there, boom, they hit you right there. That's what I think about."

Another burglar explained:

Hey, wouldn't you blow somebody away if someone broke into your house and you don't know them? You hear this noise and they come breakin' in the window tryin' to get into your house, they gon' want to kill you anyway. See, with the police, they gon' say, "Come out with your hands up and don't do nothing foolish!" Okay, you still alive, but you goin' to jail. But you alive. You sneak into somebody's house and they wait til you get in the house and then they shoot you.. . .See what I'm sayin'? You can't explain nothin' to nobody; you layin' down in there dead! [FN67]

In contrast, Missouri is one of only nine states which has no provision for citizens to be issued permits to carry handguns for protection. Thus, a[FN68] They found that "ome of the offenders who favored armed robbery over other crimes *355[FN69] As one armed robber put it: "My style is, like, don't have to be up in nobody's house in case they come in; they might have a pistol in the house or something." [FN70]

As are defensive shootings.....brain......you state and defend the wrong number of 108,000 defensive uses of guns......you then state and defend 17,000 gun accidents each year with 6-700 accidental gun deaths each year (my number).......so by your own numbers...which you defend.....there can't be more gun accidents then there are defensive uses.....

Your numbers are wrong of course....but you state them and defend them......

If there are 100,000 defenses than only about 10,000 are defending violent crime. So 10,000 defenses of violent crime vs 17,000 people accidently shot.

So who are the other 90000 defending themselves from?

And that is brains number....the real number of defensive gun uses is 1.6 million times a year on average....people stopping violent crime and saving lives......and that number is from both public and private studies, with anti gunner researchers in some cases, over a 40 year period.......also including the clinton era Justice Dept. and obama's CDC.....

Yes and only 232 criminals shot and killed in defense. Sure. I guess they all hesitate to shoot when pulling their guns right? Give up their advantage as you claim to the criminal? 100k is probably a high number.

Why do you have to kill someone?

One can use a gun in self defense without firing it you know

Like the pharmacist?

 

[Brain357]

I think most burglars hope to take your stuff without you knowing. If they are alerted you are there most will take off. But don't take my word, go look at crime statistics.

Why don't you google Home Invasions(insert any city USA) and learn a little about what is going on, before you pontificate on what people need or do not need for protection in their own areas?

WTF is wrong with you people that can't just mind your own business?

Don't like the statistics? You don't need to be so scared.

Anyone who disagrees with you is scared?

Dream on.

Why are you so offended by statistics? Why do you get mad that your country isn't this scary place?

The country isn't scary but that doesn't mean that there aren't dangerous people in it now does it?

You are exhibiting naivete to the point of brain damage if you believe nothing can happen to you

And you are naive if you think everyone with a gun is safer. Was the bra holster woman safer?

 

[Brain357]

If there are 100,000 defenses than only about 10,000 are defending violent crime. So 10,000 defenses of violent crime vs 17,000 people accidently shot.

As the others have said....anytime you are confronted by another human it is a violent situation.....since you can't read minds and they have already broken the law several times just by confronting you or getting into the position where there is a confrontation......and of the 17,000 you claim are accidents...only 6-700 result in death....out of over 320 million guns in private hands, with over 11.1 million people actually carrying guns for self defense....

It is so insignificant a number that it is just silly for you to hang your hat on it.......

Why are you guys so scared? You have pointed out most homicides are gang related. If you aren't involved in criminal activity this is a very safe country. Why do you think our country is so scary?

Technically, I don't. But murder and crime happen everyday, in all parts of the world....including very safe places......the family in CT. was pointed out......the mom and the one daughter went to the store......the husband at home taking a nap....the other daughter busy doing her thing at the home...........and the mom and the daughter are followed home from the store by 2 monsters.....who proceed to beat the crap out of the husband with a bat, and then rape the mother and 2 daughters, and end up burning them alive in their home....

Tell me brain.......do you think anyone in that family thought that would be how their day ended?

Over 300 million people in the country. How often you think that happens?

If you want to live your life by statistics then feel free. I choose to be a little more proactive in my life

That is your choice.

 

[2aguy]

Why don't you google Home Invasions(insert any city USA) and learn a little about what is going on, before you pontificate on what people need or do not need for protection in their own areas?

WTF is wrong with you people that can't just mind your own business?

Don't like the statistics? You don't need to be so scared.

Anyone who disagrees with you is scared?

Dream on.

Why are you so offended by statistics? Why do you get mad that your country isn't this scary place?

The country isn't scary but that doesn't mean that there aren't dangerous people in it now does it?

You are exhibiting naivete to the point of brain damage if you believe nothing can happen to you

And you are naive if you think everyone with a gun is safer. Was the bra holster woman safer?

And you are naive to think everyone who drives a car is safer.......was the individual killed by a drunk driver safer.....or more convenienced because he had a car....

 

[Brain357]

Don't like the statistics? You don't need to be so scared.

Anyone who disagrees with you is scared?

Dream on.

Why are you so offended by statistics? Why do you get mad that your country isn't this scary place?

The country isn't scary but that doesn't mean that there aren't dangerous people in it now does it?

You are exhibiting naivete to the point of brain damage if you believe nothing can happen to you

And you are naive if you think everyone with a gun is safer. Was the bra holster woman safer?

And you are naive to think everyone who drives a car is safer.......was the individual killed by a drunk driver safer.....or more convenienced because he had a car....

People have a car for transportation, not safety. The bra woman had the gun because she thought it made her safer. It did not.

 

[2aguy]

Anyone who disagrees with you is scared?

Dream on.

Why are you so offended by statistics? Why do you get mad that your country isn't this scary place?

The country isn't scary but that doesn't mean that there aren't dangerous people in it now does it?

You are exhibiting naivete to the point of brain damage if you believe nothing can happen to you

And you are naive if you think everyone with a gun is safer. Was the bra holster woman safer?

And you are naive to think everyone who drives a car is safer.......was the individual killed by a drunk driver safer.....or more convenienced because he had a car....

People have a car for transportation, not safety. The bra woman had the gun because she thought it made her safer. It did not.

How do you know brain.....do you know if she stopped a crime in the past.....or felt threatened by someone in the past.....no....you don't.....

 

[2aguy]

So brain.....281,000 rapes as a result of burglaries......I guess those women should just accept getting raped too........and 623,000 aggravated (felony) assaults....to unarmed victims.......guess they should just man up and take it.....right?


Lawyers Guns Burglars

B. Confrontation with Unprotected Victims

When burglars do encounter victims who cannot protect themselves, the results can be tragic. In thirty percent of these cases, the victim is assaulted or threatened. [FN101] In ten percent of these cases, the burglaries turn into rapes. [FN102] Over the ten-year period of 1973-82, this meant 623,000 aggravated (felony) assaults and 281,000 rapes. [FN103] [FN104]

 

[Brain357]

Why are you so offended by statistics? Why do you get mad that your country isn't this scary place?

The country isn't scary but that doesn't mean that there aren't dangerous people in it now does it?

You are exhibiting naivete to the point of brain damage if you believe nothing can happen to you

And you are naive if you think everyone with a gun is safer. Was the bra holster woman safer?

And you are naive to think everyone who drives a car is safer.......was the individual killed by a drunk driver safer.....or more convenienced because he had a car....

People have a car for transportation, not safety. The bra woman had the gun because she thought it made her safer. It did not.

How do you know brain.....do you know if she stopped a crime in the past.....or felt threatened by someone in the past.....no....you don't.....

Because she accidently shot herself dead obviously. If she felt threatened and got a gun it was a bad choice.

 

[2aguy]

The country isn't scary but that doesn't mean that there aren't dangerous people in it now does it?

You are exhibiting naivete to the point of brain damage if you believe nothing can happen to you

And you are naive if you think everyone with a gun is safer. Was the bra holster woman safer?

And you are naive to think everyone who drives a car is safer.......was the individual killed by a drunk driver safer.....or more convenienced because he had a car....

People have a car for transportation, not safety. The bra woman had the gun because she thought it made her safer. It did not.

How do you know brain.....do you know if she stopped a crime in the past.....or felt threatened by someone in the past.....no....you don't.....

Because she accidently shot herself dead obviously. If she felt threatened and got a gun it was a bad choice.

How do you know she hadn't stopped a violent crime in the past....or was a victim of a violent crime.......

 

[Brain357]

So brain.....281,000 rapes as a result of burglaries......I guess those women should just accept getting raped too........and 623,000 aggravated (felony) assaults....to unarmed victims.......guess they should just man up and take it.....right?


Lawyers Guns Burglars

B. Confrontation with Unprotected Victims

When burglars do encounter victims who cannot protect themselves, the results can be tragic. In thirty percent of these cases, the victim is assaulted or threatened. [FN101] In ten percent of these cases, the burglaries turn into rapes. [FN102] Over the ten-year period of 1973-82, this meant 623,000 aggravated (felony) assaults and 281,000 rapes. [FN103] [FN104]

I question those numbers and will have to get back to you. For instance in 2013 there were about 79,000 rapes. We know like 82% are by people they know, and the other 18% aren't all from burglary. And how did they determine what victims had a gun and didn't?

 

[Brain357]

And you are naive if you think everyone with a gun is safer. Was the bra holster woman safer?

And you are naive to think everyone who drives a car is safer.......was the individual killed by a drunk driver safer.....or more convenienced because he had a car....

People have a car for transportation, not safety. The bra woman had the gun because she thought it made her safer. It did not.

How do you know brain.....do you know if she stopped a crime in the past.....or felt threatened by someone in the past.....no....you don't.....

Because she accidently shot herself dead obviously. If she felt threatened and got a gun it was a bad choice.

How do you know she hadn't stopped a violent crime in the past....or was a victim of a violent crime.......

I know she accidently shot herself dead.

 

[2aguy]

Bureau of Justice statistics......3% of completed burglaries when someone is home ends in rape...page 9....

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf

A rape or sexual assault occurred in about 3% of households experiencing a completed burglary.

Well....if it only 3%....then those rapes are okay....right?

 

[Brain357]

Bureau of Justice statistics......3% of completed burglaries when someone is home ends in rape...page 9....

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf

A rape or sexual assault occurred in about 3% of households experiencing a completed burglary.

Well....if it only 3%....then those rapes are okay....right?

Well how many of those are then defendable? When I read about these the victim is often surprised in her sleep.

How often is the criminal armed and so it might change from rape to murder?

 

[Brain357]

Bureau of Justice statistics......3% of completed burglaries when someone is home ends in rape...page 9....

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf

A rape or sexual assault occurred in about 3% of households experiencing a completed burglary.

Well....if it only 3%....then those rapes are okay....right?

Well how many of those are then defendable? When I read about these the victim is often surprised in her sleep.

How often is the criminal armed and so it might change from rape to murder?

I think a good alarm system would be better.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And here we go.....rapes and assaults during burglaries.......when the people do not have guns.....

B. Confrontation with Unprotected Victims

When burglars do encounter victims who cannot protect themselves, the results can be tragic. In thirty percent of these cases, the victim is assaulted or threatened. [FN101] In ten percent of these cases, the burglaries turn into rapes. [FN102] Over the ten-year period of 1973-82, this meant 623,000 aggravated (felony) assaults and 281,000 rapes. [FN103] [FN104]

C. In Homes and on the Street

Rengert and Wasilchick's book about how burglars work reveals that fear of armed homeowners played a major role in determining burglary targets. Burglars reported that they avoided late-night burglaries because, "That's the way to get shot." [FN63] Some burglars said that they shun burglaries in [FN64]

The most thorough study of burglary patterns was a St. Louis survey of 105 currently active burglars. [FN65] The authors observed, "One of the most serious risks faced by residential burglars is the possibility of being injured or killed by occupants of a target. Many of the offenders we spoke to reported that this was far and away their greatest fear." [FN66] Said one burglar: "I don't think about gettin' caught, I think about gettin' gunned down, shot or somethin'...'cause you get into some people's houses...quick as I come in there, boom, they hit you right there. That's what I think about."

Another burglar explained:

Hey, wouldn't you blow somebody away if someone broke into your house and you don't know them? You hear this noise and they come breakin' in the window tryin' to get into your house, they gon' want to kill you anyway. See, with the police, they gon' say, "Come out with your hands up and don't do nothing foolish!" Okay, you still alive, but you goin' to jail. But you alive. You sneak into somebody's house and they wait til you get in the house and then they shoot you.. . .See what I'm sayin'? You can't explain nothin' to nobody; you layin' down in there dead! [FN67]

In contrast, Missouri is one of only nine states which has no provision for citizens to be issued permits to carry handguns for protection. Thus, a[FN68] They found that "ome of the offenders who favored armed robbery over other crimes *355[FN69] As one armed robber put it: "My style is, like, don't have to be up in nobody's house in case they come in; they might have a pistol in the house or something." [FN70]

If there are 100,000 defenses than only about 10,000 are defending violent crime. So 10,000 defenses of violent crime vs 17,000 people accidently shot.

So who are the other 90000 defending themselves from?

And that is brains number....the real number of defensive gun uses is 1.6 million times a year on average....people stopping violent crime and saving lives......and that number is from both public and private studies, with anti gunner researchers in some cases, over a 40 year period.......also including the clinton era Justice Dept. and obama's CDC.....

Yes and only 232 criminals shot and killed in defense. Sure. I guess they all hesitate to shoot when pulling their guns right? Give up their advantage as you claim to the criminal? 100k is probably a high number.

Why do you have to kill someone?

One can use a gun in self defense without firing it you know

Like the pharmacist?

So?

How many crimes are thwarted with a gun that is never fired?

And I don't mourn the loss of a piece of shit criminal like you do