Acting Navy Secretary Berates USS Roosevelt Captain

[rightwinger]

The head of the Navy recommended to Defense Secretary Mark Esper that Capt. Brett Crozier be restored to command of the USS Theodore Roosevelt aircraft carrier on Friday, according to an administration official.
While Modly publicly accused Crozier of sending his letter of warning to 20 to 30 people, the email to which the letter was attached shows that Crozier sent it to 10 people including his direct superior, according to a copy of the email obtained by The Washington Post.

Navy recommends reinstating commander of USS Theodore Roosevelt

The Navy recommended to Defense Secretary Mark Esper that Capt. Brett Crozier be restored to command of the USS Theodore Roosevelt aircraft carrier on Friday, according to an administration official.

www.cnn.com

 

[rightwinger]

So, will Trump step in and fire this guy?

 

[dannyboys]

Trump fever catch it. The guy who is in charge berates the captain because he sent a letter to the chain of command. He suppose to have know that it would have been leaked. He is then accused that the captain knew that it would be leaked.

Serious if this is the guy leading the Navy then if he was on a ship now, he be walking the plank. It sounds like the navy is embarrassed. He just made this captain a hero. He followed the chain of command by notifying his superiors of the issues aboard his ship. He was looking out for his men.

Sorry it embarrass Trump and his boys.

You are a fucking LIAR!
The Captain went around the chain of command. THAT is the reason he was relieved of his command.
The first thing ANYONE in the military is taught is to follow the chain of command.
The 'fraggers' are soon weeded out and sent back to mommy.
Basically the Captain 'lost his bottle' in a time of stress.
Everyone in the Navy brass KNEW he was a good 'peacetime Captain'. But when the shooting started he would be on the first plane off the deck.

 

[SavannahMann]

Trump fever catch it. The guy who is in charge berates the captain because he sent a letter to the chain of command. He suppose to have know that it would have been leaked. He is then accused that the captain knew that it would be leaked.

Serious if this is the guy leading the Navy then if he was on a ship now, he be walking the plank. It sounds like the navy is embarrassed. He just made this captain a hero. He followed the chain of command by notifying his superiors of the issues aboard his ship. He was looking out for his men.

Sorry it embarrass Trump and his boys.

You are a fucking LIAR!
The Captain went around the chain of command. THAT is the reason he was relieved of his command.
The first thing ANYONE in the military is taught is to follow the chain of command.
The 'fraggers' are soon weeded out and sent back to mommy.
Basically the Captain 'lost his bottle' in a time of stress.
Everyone in the Navy brass KNEW he was a good 'peacetime Captain'. But when the shooting started he would be on the first plane off the deck.

Well it seems that the Actual Navy, instead of the one in your imagination, disagrees with you entirely. The Investigation determined that the Captain sent the Memo to ten people, including his direct report supervisor, and the other nine were appropriate commands. The Chief of Naval Operations, has recommended that Captain Crozier be reinstated immediately. The Secretary of Defense is now considering the investigation and the recommendation.

So it seems that you were wrong at least according to the Navy, and then again so was I. I said the Navy would not reinstate this guy because it would be embarrassing to admit they were wrong to remove him. I guess not only are they throwing Moldy under the bus, but they’re backing the bus up to make sure he gets run over again, and again.

Of course, it has been known for some time that Crozier did not send it to the Press. So what do you think about the Navy wanting Crozier back?

Oh, one last thing. The Captain of the Ship, would not fly off it in time of war in any plane. You see, while the Captain is a Pilot, it is a non flight post, which means he don’t fly anymore, unless he can get check rides when his duties as Captain permits. So pretty much No. On the off chance that during your imaginary war, the ship was damaged and sinking, the Captain would be charged and convicted of Dereliction of Duty if he was not the last person off the ship.

 

[rightwinger]

Trump fever catch it. The guy who is in charge berates the captain because he sent a letter to the chain of command. He suppose to have know that it would have been leaked. He is then accused that the captain knew that it would be leaked.

Serious if this is the guy leading the Navy then if he was on a ship now, he be walking the plank. It sounds like the navy is embarrassed. He just made this captain a hero. He followed the chain of command by notifying his superiors of the issues aboard his ship. He was looking out for his men.

Sorry it embarrass Trump and his boys.

You are a fucking LIAR!
The Captain went around the chain of command. THAT is the reason he was relieved of his command.
The first thing ANYONE in the military is taught is to follow the chain of command.
The 'fraggers' are soon weeded out and sent back to mommy.
Basically the Captain 'lost his bottle' in a time of stress.
Everyone in the Navy brass KNEW he was a good 'peacetime Captain'. But when the shooting started he would be on the first plane off the deck.

What has been released is that he did go through the chain of command and cc’d those with a need to know.

 

[rightwinger]

Trump fever catch it. The guy who is in charge berates the captain because he sent a letter to the chain of command. He suppose to have know that it would have been leaked. He is then accused that the captain knew that it would be leaked.

Serious if this is the guy leading the Navy then if he was on a ship now, he be walking the plank. It sounds like the navy is embarrassed. He just made this captain a hero. He followed the chain of command by notifying his superiors of the issues aboard his ship. He was looking out for his men.

Sorry it embarrass Trump and his boys.

You are a fucking LIAR!
The Captain went around the chain of command. THAT is the reason he was relieved of his command.
The first thing ANYONE in the military is taught is to follow the chain of command.
The 'fraggers' are soon weeded out and sent back to mommy.
Basically the Captain 'lost his bottle' in a time of stress.
Everyone in the Navy brass KNEW he was a good 'peacetime Captain'. But when the shooting started he would be on the first plane off the deck.

Well it seems that the Actual Navy, instead of the one in your imagination, disagrees with you entirely. The Investigation determined that the Captain sent the Memo to ten people, including his direct report supervisor, and the other nine were appropriate commands. The Chief of Naval Operations, has recommended that Captain Crozier be reinstated immediately. The Secretary of Defense is now considering the investigation and the recommendation.

So it seems that you were wrong at least according to the Navy, and then again so was I. I said the Navy would not reinstate this guy because it would be embarrassing to admit they were wrong to remove him. I guess not only are they throwing Moldy under the bus, but they’re backing the bus up to make sure he gets run over again, and again.

Of course, it has been known for some time that Crozier did not send it to the Press. So what do you think about the Navy wanting Crozier back?

Oh, one last thing. The Captain of the Ship, would not fly off it in time of war in any plane. You see, while the Captain is a Pilot, it is a non flight post, which means he don’t fly anymore, unless he can get check rides when his duties as Captain permits. So pretty much No. On the off chance that during your imaginary war, the ship was damaged and sinking, the Captain would be charged and convicted of Dereliction of Duty if he was not the last person off the ship.

What is coming out is what a prick Modly was.
Not just impulsively removing a commander without an investigation but becoming outraged because the crew supported their Captain and flying halfway around the world to berate the crew and insult their commander.

 

[Mac-7]

He sho

So, will Trump step in and fire this guy?

He should fire the captain

 

[rightwinger]

He sho

So, will Trump step in and fire this guy?

He should fire the captain

Trump needs to stay out of Navy Personnel business

 

[SavannahMann]

He sho

So, will Trump step in and fire this guy?

He should fire the captain

Trump needs to stay out of Navy Personnel business

Actually, Trump as Commander in Chief can order the Navy to give someone a command. This is long in history. One example, the post December 7th order to send Nimitz to Pearl Harbor to take over CincPac.

There are a lot of other historical examples of the President issuing orders to give one person a job over another. Or to relieve someone. Admiral Halsey was ordered to relieve Admiral Gormley. The President had lost faith in Gormley. The orders went through the Chain of Command, but the fact remains that the President can and has relieved career officers many times through history. Truman and MacArthur come to mind, along with other notable examples.

So Trump has the authority as Commander in Chief, just as all Presidents do. He has the Historical Example with many instances where exactly that sort of thing happened. I would not claim that only Trump is limited beyond what is the norm.

Because let’s be honest. Promotions to Captain, and especially Admiral, are always heavily political. For Admiral the Senate must confirm, so the President picks his candidates carefully. The idea of an apolitical military is a joke. Every Four Star General or Admiral has been submitted to Congress at least three and probably four times. They are probably on first name basis with most of the Staff of the Senate and House politicians, especially those with oversight of the Military.

Crozier should be reinstated, I agree. But I do not feel that way because Trump is President, or in spite of it. I feel that way because he appears to be a competent officer who has had a long career with no mistakes to be entrusted to command an Aircraft Carrier. He followed regulations and was chastised for it by a Martinet who should never have been entrusted to his job. Often we don’t learn that a person is a fool until we find out how they abuse the trust we give them.

There is an old joke. A private can not lose a war. The private, should he make a mistake, is incapable of losing the war, he just does not have the position, or authority to do so. However, a General can lose a war with ease should he make a mistake. An apparently good on paper choice for Sec Navy turned out to be a very bad choice indeed. He is gone, as should happen whenever anyone demonstrates they can not handle the pressure or responsibility of a job.

One last thought comes to mind. Zell Miller when he was Governor of Georgia, required his appointees to prove him with a signed letter of resignation before they were confirmed to the jobs. Those letters lacked only the date. Zell Miller Believed it was important to have those in a file in his drawer. That way, when they went against him or did something he didn’t like, he did not need to ask them for their resignation, but just open the file and pull out their letter and add the date in.

Zell argued that he answered to the Voters, and his appointee’s answered to him. I have long thought that was a good idea, and wonder if others had adapted the process as well.

 

[rightwinger]

He sho

So, will Trump step in and fire this guy?

He should fire the captain

Trump needs to stay out of Navy Personnel business

Actually, Trump as Commander in Chief can order the Navy to give someone a command. This is long in history. One example, the post December 7th order to send Nimitz to Pearl Harbor to take over CincPac.

There are a lot of other historical examples of the President issuing orders to give one person a job over another. Or to relieve someone. Admiral Halsey was ordered to relieve Admiral Gormley. The President had lost faith in Gormley. The orders went through the Chain of Command, but the fact remains that the President can and has relieved career officers many times through history. Truman and MacArthur come to mind, along with other notable examples.

So Trump has the authority as Commander in Chief, just as all Presidents do. He has the Historical Example with many instances where exactly that sort of thing happened. I would not claim that only Trump is limited beyond what is the norm.

Because let’s be honest. Promotions to Captain, and especially Admiral, are always heavily political. For Admiral the Senate must confirm, so the President picks his candidates carefully. The idea of an apolitical military is a joke. Every Four Star General or Admiral has been submitted to Congress at least three and probably four times. They are probably on first name basis with most of the Staff of the Senate and House politicians, especially those with oversight of the Military.

Crozier should be reinstated, I agree. But I do not feel that way because Trump is President, or in spite of it. I feel that way because he appears to be a competent officer who has had a long career with no mistakes to be entrusted to command an Aircraft Carrier. He followed regulations and was chastised for it by a Martinet who should never have been entrusted to his job. Often we don’t learn that a person is a fool until we find out how they abuse the trust we give them.

There is an old joke. A private can not lose a war. The private, should he make a mistake, is incapable of losing the war, he just does not have the position, or authority to do so. However, a General can lose a war with ease should he make a mistake. An apparently good on paper choice for Sec Navy turned out to be a very bad choice indeed. He is gone, as should happen whenever anyone demonstrates they can not handle the pressure or responsibility of a job.

One last thought comes to mind. Zell Miller when he was Governor of Georgia, required his appointees to prove him with a signed letter of resignation before they were confirmed to the jobs. Those letters lacked only the date. Zell Miller Believed it was important to have those in a file in his drawer. That way, when they went against him or did something he didn’t like, he did not need to ask them for their resignation, but just open the file and pull out their letter and add the date in.

Zell argued that he answered to the Voters, and his appointee’s answered to him. I have long thought that was a good idea, and wonder if others had adapted the process as well.

I have seen Presidents get involved in the appointment and reassignment of Flag Officers
Truman relieved MacArthur of command.

I have not seen Presidents involved in the appointment or assignments of Navy Captains or Army/Air Force Colonels and below. That is usually left to the individual service.

In Trumps case, he got involved in disciplinary action of a Navy SEAL

Sets a bad precedence

 

[SavannahMann]

He sho

So, will Trump step in and fire this guy?

He should fire the captain

Trump needs to stay out of Navy Personnel business

Actually, Trump as Commander in Chief can order the Navy to give someone a command. This is long in history. One example, the post December 7th order to send Nimitz to Pearl Harbor to take over CincPac.

There are a lot of other historical examples of the President issuing orders to give one person a job over another. Or to relieve someone. Admiral Halsey was ordered to relieve Admiral Gormley. The President had lost faith in Gormley. The orders went through the Chain of Command, but the fact remains that the President can and has relieved career officers many times through history. Truman and MacArthur come to mind, along with other notable examples.

So Trump has the authority as Commander in Chief, just as all Presidents do. He has the Historical Example with many instances where exactly that sort of thing happened. I would not claim that only Trump is limited beyond what is the norm.

Because let’s be honest. Promotions to Captain, and especially Admiral, are always heavily political. For Admiral the Senate must confirm, so the President picks his candidates carefully. The idea of an apolitical military is a joke. Every Four Star General or Admiral has been submitted to Congress at least three and probably four times. They are probably on first name basis with most of the Staff of the Senate and House politicians, especially those with oversight of the Military.

Crozier should be reinstated, I agree. But I do not feel that way because Trump is President, or in spite of it. I feel that way because he appears to be a competent officer who has had a long career with no mistakes to be entrusted to command an Aircraft Carrier. He followed regulations and was chastised for it by a Martinet who should never have been entrusted to his job. Often we don’t learn that a person is a fool until we find out how they abuse the trust we give them.

There is an old joke. A private can not lose a war. The private, should he make a mistake, is incapable of losing the war, he just does not have the position, or authority to do so. However, a General can lose a war with ease should he make a mistake. An apparently good on paper choice for Sec Navy turned out to be a very bad choice indeed. He is gone, as should happen whenever anyone demonstrates they can not handle the pressure or responsibility of a job.

One last thought comes to mind. Zell Miller when he was Governor of Georgia, required his appointees to prove him with a signed letter of resignation before they were confirmed to the jobs. Those letters lacked only the date. Zell Miller Believed it was important to have those in a file in his drawer. That way, when they went against him or did something he didn’t like, he did not need to ask them for their resignation, but just open the file and pull out their letter and add the date in.

Zell argued that he answered to the Voters, and his appointee’s answered to him. I have long thought that was a good idea, and wonder if others had adapted the process as well.

I have seen Presidents get involved in the appointment and reassignment of Flag Officers
Truman relieved MacArthur of command.

I have not seen Presidents involved in the appointment or assignments of Navy Captains or Army/Air Force Colonels and below. That is usually left to the individual service.

In Trumps case, he got involved in disciplinary action of a Navy SEAL

Sets a bad precedence

The Constitution grants the President, every single one since Washington, and every single one yet to come, the unilateral and uncheckable power of Pardons and Commutations. The Senate has no authority to overrule the Pardons and Commutations. The House can rail and climb on the soapbox, but can’t do anything either.

This authority includes Military Courts Martials. It always has. It has since Washington took the oath for the first time. Moreover, an unusual facet of Courts Martials is that the Commanders at each level above can set the Conviction aside. Or they can commute the sentence as well. Seriously.

Let’s say a Marine is charged with striking an officer at Pearl Harbor. The General in charge of the Marines has the responsibility to review the Courts Martial. He can let the conviction stand, or overturn it. That conviction can even be overturned later by someone else. Or that General can set aside the punishment.

There have been some cases where that happened, and Congress railed and ranted. Legal experts objected and wrote lengthy articles objecting to it. But nothing has changed in the Regulations. Congress apparently does not want to get rid of this Commanders Prerogative.

Now, the President is the Commander in Chief, and decides what the policy of the Military will be. Clinton for example, enacted Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. Clinton unilaterally using his authority as Commander in Chief ordered the policy. I was in the Army when that policy went into effect. As a Sergeant, it was not only my duty to obey that order. It was my duty to support it with full throated endorsements. I had to behave and speak as if it was brilliant, because failure to do so would be dishonorable in my opinion.

Many people objected saying that Clinton was wrong and abusing his authority. But he had the authority, and again, I will not begrudge one person for using that authority, and then claim someone else was right for doing it.

President Trump got involved in a case, which is no different than any other Commander getting involved. Right or wrong, they have the authority to do so. And that authority has always existed.

Now, FDR also took care of his former Naval Aides. Young officers got plum assignments because they were liked by FDR. That sort of cronyism is normal in the world. Many officers are serving with subordinates whom they have served with many times, because they asked for them when given an assignment. So deciding who should be given a job, I am sure that for decades the White House was advised who the Navy wanted to give command of Carriers and Submarines. After all these are our most important and strategic assets. Knowing who is going to be in charge is probably important. I doubt that the President put a name on the list who was not already in the running, but he probably nudged one or two over the years, in every administration.

Again, it is often political. A Captain who has worked with the Senate, and done the Navy, and thus the administration proud, is probably going to be considered before a Captain who was in charge of a less prestigious job.

And the President has the right to know who is going to be getting those strategic commands. After all, those are the ships and Commands that are going to be carrying out policy when it really matters. So giving the right person the job, even at the level of Colonel or Captain, is likely to be vitally important.

Look at the book and movie We Were Soldiers. They picked Hal Moore at the Pentagon, and went to get approval from the Political folks before he was assigned. Four Star Generals and Political Figures were picking Hal Moore, a Lieutenant Colonel, to command a Battalion. What makes you think that the Sec Army or Sec Def didn’t mention to the President that this new unit was going to be commanded by Hal Moore? I am sure the same discussions go on when assigning someone to command the Combat Brigades of the 82nd Airborne. Those are Full Colonel Jobs.

The military is a lot more Political than you think it is. It always has been. What is unusual is that the political nonsense is getting out. But the behind the scenes actions? Those are pretty much status quo. It has never been as simple and clear cut as we might imagine it to be.

I refuse to hold Trump to a different standard than I would hold any other President. I refuse to claim that he is awful for conducting business as usual. I refuse to pretend that it is different because he is Trump. Favorites have always gotten pushed up, and good assignments. Crozier must have done well at the Pentagon, because there is no shortage of Pilots who are Captains and could be given command of a carrier.

 

[Kilroy2]

Trump fever catch it. The guy who is in charge berates the captain because he sent a letter to the chain of command. He suppose to have know that it would have been leaked. He is then accused that the captain knew that it would be leaked.

Serious if this is the guy leading the Navy then if he was on a ship now, he be walking the plank. It sounds like the navy is embarrassed. He just made this captain a hero. He followed the chain of command by notifying his superiors of the issues aboard his ship. He was looking out for his men.

Sorry it embarrass Trump and his boys.

You are a fucking LIAR!
The Captain went around the chain of command. THAT is the reason he was relieved of his command.
The first thing ANYONE in the military is taught is to follow the chain of command.
The 'fraggers' are soon weeded out and sent back to mommy.
Basically the Captain 'lost his bottle' in a time of stress.
Everyone in the Navy brass KNEW he was a good 'peacetime Captain'. But when the shooting started he would be on the first plane off the deck.

Lets see the acting Navy secretary resigned

They are considering reinstating the capt

Videos have emerged showing Capt. Brett Crozier being applauded and cheered as he leaves the USS Theodore Roosevelt after being relieved of his position for expressing concerns about the spread of coronavirus on his ship.

Chain of command is the military way but a leader has to support the troops and be concern about their welfare when facing a crisis.

Still should the acting navy secretary berate the Captain in public and pretty much did the same thing by making it public. Commanders who earn the respect of the people underneath them is what makes them feel proud to be their Commander. Keeping the higher up happy is more a way to keep your job and for opportunities of promotion.





And Teddy Roosevelt did the same thing and went on to be the president of the US

MAJOR-GENERAL SHAFTER. SIR: In a meeting of the general and medical officers called by you at the Palace this morning we were all, as you know, unanimous in our views of what should be done with the army. To keep us here, in the opinion of every officer commanding a division or a brigade, will simply involve the destruction of thousands.

There is no possible reason for not shipping practically the entire command North at once. Yellow-fever cases are very few in the cavalry division, where I command one of the two brigades, and not one true case of yellow fever has occurred in this division, except among the men sent to the hospital at Siboney, where they have, I believe, contracted it. But in this division there have been 1,500 cases of malarial fever. Hardly a man has yet died from it, but the whole command is so weakened and shattered as to be ripe for dying like rotten sheep, when a real yellow-fever epidemic instead of a fake epidemic, like the present one, strikes us, as it is bound to do if we stay here at the height of the sickness season, August and the beginning of September.

Quarantine against malarial fever is much like quarantining against the toothache. All of us are certain that as soon as the authorities at Washington fully appreciate the condition of the army, we shall be sent home. If we are kept here it will in all human possibility mean an appalling disaster, for the surgeons here estimate that over half the army, if kept here during the sickly season, will die.


This is not only terrible from the standpoint of the individual lives lost, but it means ruin from the standpoint of military efficiency of the flower of the American army, for the great bulk of the regulars are here with you. The sick list, large though it is, exceeding four thousand, affords but a faint index of the debilitation of the army. Not ten per cent are fit for active work.

Six weeks on the North Maine coast, for instance, or elsewhere where the yellow-fever germ cannot possibly propagate, would make us all as fit as fighting-cocks, as able as we are eager to take a leading part in the great campaign against Havana in the fall, even if we are not allowed to try Porto Rico. We can be moved North, if moved at once, with absolute safety to the country, although, of course, it would have been infinitely better if we had been moved North or to Puerto Rico two weeks ago. If there were any object in keeping us here, we would face yellow fever with as much indifference as we faced bullets. But there is no object.

The four immune regiments ordered here are sufficient to garrison the city and surrounding towns, and there is absolutely nothing for us to do here, and there has not been since the city surrendered. It is impossible to move into the interior. Every shifting of camp doubles the sick rate in our present weakened condition, and, anyhow, the interior is rather worse than the coast, as I have found by actual reconnoissance.

Our present camps are as healthy as any camps at this end of the island can be. I write only because I cannot see our men, who have fought so bravely and who have endured extreme hardship and danger so uncomplainingly, go to destruction without striving so far as lies in me to avert a doom as fearful as it is unnecessary and undeserved.


Yours respectfully, THEODORE ROOSEVELT, Colonel Commanding Second Cavalry Brigade.

Signed by all the officers, the letter was delivered to Shafter and meant for delivery to the Army Headquarters in Washington.

Perhaps fearing inaction on the side of Shafter, a copy of the letter also found its way to an Associated Press correspondent –– allegedly at the hands of Roosevelt — who cabled immediately to AP headquarters.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Captain Kirk endured worse and ended up an Admiral.

 

[dannyboys]

Trump fever catch it. The guy who is in charge berates the captain because he sent a letter to the chain of command. He suppose to have know that it would have been leaked. He is then accused that the captain knew that it would be leaked.

Serious if this is the guy leading the Navy then if he was on a ship now, he be walking the plank. It sounds like the navy is embarrassed. He just made this captain a hero. He followed the chain of command by notifying his superiors of the issues aboard his ship. He was looking out for his men.

Sorry it embarrass Trump and his boys.

You are a fucking LIAR!
The Captain went around the chain of command. THAT is the reason he was relieved of his command.
The first thing ANYONE in the military is taught is to follow the chain of command.
The 'fraggers' are soon weeded out and sent back to mommy.
Basically the Captain 'lost his bottle' in a time of stress.
Everyone in the Navy brass KNEW he was a good 'peacetime Captain'. But when the shooting started he would be on the first plane off the deck.

Well it seems that the Actual Navy, instead of the one in your imagination, disagrees with you entirely. The Investigation determined that the Captain sent the Memo to ten people, including his direct report supervisor, and the other nine were appropriate commands. The Chief of Naval Operations, has recommended that Captain Crozier be reinstated immediately. The Secretary of Defense is now considering the investigation and the recommendation.

So it seems that you were wrong at least according to the Navy, and then again so was I. I said the Navy would not reinstate this guy because it would be embarrassing to admit they were wrong to remove him. I guess not only are they throwing Moldy under the bus, but they’re backing the bus up to make sure he gets run over again, and again.

Of course, it has been known for some time that Crozier did not send it to the Press. So what do you think about the Navy wanting Crozier back?

Oh, one last thing. The Captain of the Ship, would not fly off it in time of war in any plane. You see, while the Captain is a Pilot, it is a non flight post, which means he don’t fly anymore, unless he can get check rides when his duties as Captain permits. So pretty much No. On the off chance that during your imaginary war, the ship was damaged and sinking, the Captain would be charged and convicted of Dereliction of Duty if he was not the last person off the ship.

Someone the Captain sent the 'memo' to leaked it to the press. The Captain is DIRECTLY responsible for that.
The Admiral was quartered two doors down from the Captain. The Admiral has stated he only learned about the memo from a press report. THAT is breaking the chain of command!!!!!!!!!!!
The Captain will NEVER EVER get command of another ship. He will quit or retire from a desk job.
Another time and place the Captain would have been locked up in the brig.
I NEVER said the Captain would abandon he post if a shooting war happened. In FACT I said in that event the boys back in Headquarters would figure out an excuse to relieve the Captain.

 

[SavannahMann]

Trump fever catch it. The guy who is in charge berates the captain because he sent a letter to the chain of command. He suppose to have know that it would have been leaked. He is then accused that the captain knew that it would be leaked.

Serious if this is the guy leading the Navy then if he was on a ship now, he be walking the plank. It sounds like the navy is embarrassed. He just made this captain a hero. He followed the chain of command by notifying his superiors of the issues aboard his ship. He was looking out for his men.

Sorry it embarrass Trump and his boys.

You are a fucking LIAR!
The Captain went around the chain of command. THAT is the reason he was relieved of his command.
The first thing ANYONE in the military is taught is to follow the chain of command.
The 'fraggers' are soon weeded out and sent back to mommy.
Basically the Captain 'lost his bottle' in a time of stress.
Everyone in the Navy brass KNEW he was a good 'peacetime Captain'. But when the shooting started he would be on the first plane off the deck.

Well it seems that the Actual Navy, instead of the one in your imagination, disagrees with you entirely. The Investigation determined that the Captain sent the Memo to ten people, including his direct report supervisor, and the other nine were appropriate commands. The Chief of Naval Operations, has recommended that Captain Crozier be reinstated immediately. The Secretary of Defense is now considering the investigation and the recommendation.

So it seems that you were wrong at least according to the Navy, and then again so was I. I said the Navy would not reinstate this guy because it would be embarrassing to admit they were wrong to remove him. I guess not only are they throwing Moldy under the bus, but they’re backing the bus up to make sure he gets run over again, and again.

Of course, it has been known for some time that Crozier did not send it to the Press. So what do you think about the Navy wanting Crozier back?

Oh, one last thing. The Captain of the Ship, would not fly off it in time of war in any plane. You see, while the Captain is a Pilot, it is a non flight post, which means he don’t fly anymore, unless he can get check rides when his duties as Captain permits. So pretty much No. On the off chance that during your imaginary war, the ship was damaged and sinking, the Captain would be charged and convicted of Dereliction of Duty if he was not the last person off the ship.

Someone the Captain sent the 'memo' to leaked it to the press. The Captain is DIRECTLY responsible for that.
The Admiral was quartered two doors down from the Captain. The Admiral has stated he only learned about the memo from a press report. THAT is breaking the chain of command!!!!!!!!!!!
The Captain will NEVER EVER get command of another ship. He will quit or retire from a desk job.
Another time and place the Captain would have been locked up in the brig.
I NEVER said the Captain would abandon he post if a shooting war happened. In FACT I said in that event the boys back in Headquarters would figure out an excuse to relieve the Captain.

Ok. So I tell my superior information and it is given to the press and that is my fault? Are you insane? You are the kind of guy who would convict an accused of a crime because he must have done something to get here.

the Navy says reinstate the man. So obviously your assertions are false. The Chief of Naval Operations. That means the highest ranking Naval Officer. The CNO says that Crozier did the right thing. He sent it to the appropriate commands. So your complaint is again disproven.

The biggest problem is that you have no clue how the Navy works. You have no idea how the Command and Control works. And the Navy says that. Not just me. They said it when the investigation concluded that Crozier acted appropriately and should be reinstated.

 

[rightwinger]

Trump fever catch it. The guy who is in charge berates the captain because he sent a letter to the chain of command. He suppose to have know that it would have been leaked. He is then accused that the captain knew that it would be leaked.

Serious if this is the guy leading the Navy then if he was on a ship now, he be walking the plank. It sounds like the navy is embarrassed. He just made this captain a hero. He followed the chain of command by notifying his superiors of the issues aboard his ship. He was looking out for his men.

Sorry it embarrass Trump and his boys.

You are a fucking LIAR!
The Captain went around the chain of command. THAT is the reason he was relieved of his command.
The first thing ANYONE in the military is taught is to follow the chain of command.
The 'fraggers' are soon weeded out and sent back to mommy.
Basically the Captain 'lost his bottle' in a time of stress.
Everyone in the Navy brass KNEW he was a good 'peacetime Captain'. But when the shooting started he would be on the first plane off the deck.

Well it seems that the Actual Navy, instead of the one in your imagination, disagrees with you entirely. The Investigation determined that the Captain sent the Memo to ten people, including his direct report supervisor, and the other nine were appropriate commands. The Chief of Naval Operations, has recommended that Captain Crozier be reinstated immediately. The Secretary of Defense is now considering the investigation and the recommendation.

So it seems that you were wrong at least according to the Navy, and then again so was I. I said the Navy would not reinstate this guy because it would be embarrassing to admit they were wrong to remove him. I guess not only are they throwing Moldy under the bus, but they’re backing the bus up to make sure he gets run over again, and again.

Of course, it has been known for some time that Crozier did not send it to the Press. So what do you think about the Navy wanting Crozier back?

Oh, one last thing. The Captain of the Ship, would not fly off it in time of war in any plane. You see, while the Captain is a Pilot, it is a non flight post, which means he don’t fly anymore, unless he can get check rides when his duties as Captain permits. So pretty much No. On the off chance that during your imaginary war, the ship was damaged and sinking, the Captain would be charged and convicted of Dereliction of Duty if he was not the last person off the ship.

Someone the Captain sent the 'memo' to leaked it to the press. The Captain is DIRECTLY responsible for that.
The Admiral was quartered two doors down from the Captain. The Admiral has stated he only learned about the memo from a press report. THAT is breaking the chain of command!!!!!!!!!!!
The Captain will NEVER EVER get command of another ship. He will quit or retire from a desk job.
Another time and place the Captain would have been locked up in the brig.
I NEVER said the Captain would abandon he post if a shooting war happened. In FACT I said in that event the boys back in Headquarters would figure out an excuse to relieve the Captain.

The Captain is responsible for his own actions, not the actions of others. All he needs to be concerned with is that the people he copied on that memo needed to know the information.
If someone leaks the memo, it is on the leaker.

Looks like he will get his command back

 

[dannyboys]

Trump fever catch it. The guy who is in charge berates the captain because he sent a letter to the chain of command. He suppose to have know that it would have been leaked. He is then accused that the captain knew that it would be leaked.

Serious if this is the guy leading the Navy then if he was on a ship now, he be walking the plank. It sounds like the navy is embarrassed. He just made this captain a hero. He followed the chain of command by notifying his superiors of the issues aboard his ship. He was looking out for his men.

Sorry it embarrass Trump and his boys.

You are a fucking LIAR!
The Captain went around the chain of command. THAT is the reason he was relieved of his command.
The first thing ANYONE in the military is taught is to follow the chain of command.
The 'fraggers' are soon weeded out and sent back to mommy.
Basically the Captain 'lost his bottle' in a time of stress.
Everyone in the Navy brass KNEW he was a good 'peacetime Captain'. But when the shooting started he would be on the first plane off the deck.

Well it seems that the Actual Navy, instead of the one in your imagination, disagrees with you entirely. The Investigation determined that the Captain sent the Memo to ten people, including his direct report supervisor, and the other nine were appropriate commands. The Chief of Naval Operations, has recommended that Captain Crozier be reinstated immediately. The Secretary of Defense is now considering the investigation and the recommendation.

So it seems that you were wrong at least according to the Navy, and then again so was I. I said the Navy would not reinstate this guy because it would be embarrassing to admit they were wrong to remove him. I guess not only are they throwing Moldy under the bus, but they’re backing the bus up to make sure he gets run over again, and again.

Of course, it has been known for some time that Crozier did not send it to the Press. So what do you think about the Navy wanting Crozier back?

Oh, one last thing. The Captain of the Ship, would not fly off it in time of war in any plane. You see, while the Captain is a Pilot, it is a non flight post, which means he don’t fly anymore, unless he can get check rides when his duties as Captain permits. So pretty much No. On the off chance that during your imaginary war, the ship was damaged and sinking, the Captain would be charged and convicted of Dereliction of Duty if he was not the last person off the ship.

Someone the Captain sent the 'memo' to leaked it to the press. The Captain is DIRECTLY responsible for that.
The Admiral was quartered two doors down from the Captain. The Admiral has stated he only learned about the memo from a press report. THAT is breaking the chain of command!!!!!!!!!!!
The Captain will NEVER EVER get command of another ship. He will quit or retire from a desk job.
Another time and place the Captain would have been locked up in the brig.
I NEVER said the Captain would abandon he post if a shooting war happened. In FACT I said in that event the boys back in Headquarters would figure out an excuse to relieve the Captain.

Ok. So I tell my superior information and it is given to the press and that is my fault? Are you insane? You are the kind of guy who would convict an accused of a crime because he must have done something to get here.

the Navy says reinstate the man. So obviously your assertions are false. The Chief of Naval Operations. That means the highest ranking Naval Officer. The CNO says that Crozier did the right thing. He sent it to the appropriate commands. So your complaint is again disproven.

The biggest problem is that you have no clue how the Navy works. You have no idea how the Command and Control works. And the Navy says that. Not just me. They said it when the investigation concluded that Crozier acted appropriately and should be reinstated.

Make sure to let us all know when the Navy reinstates the Captain. HAAAA HAAAAAA!!!!!

 

[SavannahMann]

Trump fever catch it. The guy who is in charge berates the captain because he sent a letter to the chain of command. He suppose to have know that it would have been leaked. He is then accused that the captain knew that it would be leaked.

Serious if this is the guy leading the Navy then if he was on a ship now, he be walking the plank. It sounds like the navy is embarrassed. He just made this captain a hero. He followed the chain of command by notifying his superiors of the issues aboard his ship. He was looking out for his men.

Sorry it embarrass Trump and his boys.

You are a fucking LIAR!
The Captain went around the chain of command. THAT is the reason he was relieved of his command.
The first thing ANYONE in the military is taught is to follow the chain of command.
The 'fraggers' are soon weeded out and sent back to mommy.
Basically the Captain 'lost his bottle' in a time of stress.
Everyone in the Navy brass KNEW he was a good 'peacetime Captain'. But when the shooting started he would be on the first plane off the deck.

Well it seems that the Actual Navy, instead of the one in your imagination, disagrees with you entirely. The Investigation determined that the Captain sent the Memo to ten people, including his direct report supervisor, and the other nine were appropriate commands. The Chief of Naval Operations, has recommended that Captain Crozier be reinstated immediately. The Secretary of Defense is now considering the investigation and the recommendation.

So it seems that you were wrong at least according to the Navy, and then again so was I. I said the Navy would not reinstate this guy because it would be embarrassing to admit they were wrong to remove him. I guess not only are they throwing Moldy under the bus, but they’re backing the bus up to make sure he gets run over again, and again.

Of course, it has been known for some time that Crozier did not send it to the Press. So what do you think about the Navy wanting Crozier back?

Oh, one last thing. The Captain of the Ship, would not fly off it in time of war in any plane. You see, while the Captain is a Pilot, it is a non flight post, which means he don’t fly anymore, unless he can get check rides when his duties as Captain permits. So pretty much No. On the off chance that during your imaginary war, the ship was damaged and sinking, the Captain would be charged and convicted of Dereliction of Duty if he was not the last person off the ship.

Someone the Captain sent the 'memo' to leaked it to the press. The Captain is DIRECTLY responsible for that.
The Admiral was quartered two doors down from the Captain. The Admiral has stated he only learned about the memo from a press report. THAT is breaking the chain of command!!!!!!!!!!!
The Captain will NEVER EVER get command of another ship. He will quit or retire from a desk job.
Another time and place the Captain would have been locked up in the brig.
I NEVER said the Captain would abandon he post if a shooting war happened. In FACT I said in that event the boys back in Headquarters would figure out an excuse to relieve the Captain.

Ok. So I tell my superior information and it is given to the press and that is my fault? Are you insane? You are the kind of guy who would convict an accused of a crime because he must have done something to get here.

the Navy says reinstate the man. So obviously your assertions are false. The Chief of Naval Operations. That means the highest ranking Naval Officer. The CNO says that Crozier did the right thing. He sent it to the appropriate commands. So your complaint is again disproven.

The biggest problem is that you have no clue how the Navy works. You have no idea how the Command and Control works. And the Navy says that. Not just me. They said it when the investigation concluded that Crozier acted appropriately and should be reinstated.

Make sure to let us all know when the Navy reinstates the Captain. HAAAA HAAAAAA!!!!!

I wonder how bad you are at Chess. You must lose in a record low number of moves. For the sake of argument let’s say the Sec Def refuses to reinstate the Captain. All that support the Military and their families give Trump would be in question wouldn’t it? Wouldn’t they remember that when voting in November?

The smart thing politically for the Sec Def and Trump would be to reinstate the Captain and make it look like Moldy was the nut. Even a first year student would say that was smart. The nutters like you will vote Trump no matter what. It is the rest you have to win and letting this go on and on is not smart.

Honestly the election is Trumps to lose. Trying to lose it by alienating his base is not a good play.

What is even funnier or sadder is that you won’t admit how wrong you are. It is one thing to be ignorant. That is understandable. I am ignorant of many things. Ignorant means I do not know. Stupid is where you will not learn. You have the Civilian view of the Military. One line from the President to the lowest ranking sailor. No other lines anywhere.

Let’s play a game. I am a Private. I am given an order to drop off reports to the Supply Depot. I carry the reports. Along the way a Captain of another unit gives me an order to drive him to some headquarters and wait for him to return. What do I do? If I ignore the Captain who is not in my chain of command am I in the right?

According to you, yes. According to Regulations. No. An order may only be countermanded by the officer who gave the order or a higher ranking officer. The only way to disobey that Captain is if I was given an order by a Major. If my Lieutenant hunts me down and chews me out and orders me to do what he told me I am required to refuse that order. He does not outrank the Captain. I am guilty of about three crimes under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

There is an exception. An illegal order. I am not required to obey illegal orders. In fact. I am guilty of a crime if I do. If Crozier was ordered not to discuss the situation on the ship with anyone except his direct report superior that would be an illegal order. Crozier is required by Regulations to report to many different offices and commands.

That you do not know this, that you are ignorant is understandable. That you refuse to learn shows a different situation entirely. I wonder if the Sec Def will be an idiot or not? If he is, then President Biden is liable to submit the name of Captain Crozier to the Senate for confirmation to promote him to Rear Admiral (Lower Half).

I really do not want to see President Biden. But I also know that if it happens it is Trumps own fault.

 

[dannyboys]

Trump fever catch it. The guy who is in charge berates the captain because he sent a letter to the chain of command. He suppose to have know that it would have been leaked. He is then accused that the captain knew that it would be leaked.

Serious if this is the guy leading the Navy then if he was on a ship now, he be walking the plank. It sounds like the navy is embarrassed. He just made this captain a hero. He followed the chain of command by notifying his superiors of the issues aboard his ship. He was looking out for his men.

Sorry it embarrass Trump and his boys.

You are a fucking LIAR!
The Captain went around the chain of command. THAT is the reason he was relieved of his command.
The first thing ANYONE in the military is taught is to follow the chain of command.
The 'fraggers' are soon weeded out and sent back to mommy.
Basically the Captain 'lost his bottle' in a time of stress.
Everyone in the Navy brass KNEW he was a good 'peacetime Captain'. But when the shooting started he would be on the first plane off the deck.

Well it seems that the Actual Navy, instead of the one in your imagination, disagrees with you entirely. The Investigation determined that the Captain sent the Memo to ten people, including his direct report supervisor, and the other nine were appropriate commands. The Chief of Naval Operations, has recommended that Captain Crozier be reinstated immediately. The Secretary of Defense is now considering the investigation and the recommendation.

So it seems that you were wrong at least according to the Navy, and then again so was I. I said the Navy would not reinstate this guy because it would be embarrassing to admit they were wrong to remove him. I guess not only are they throwing Moldy under the bus, but they’re backing the bus up to make sure he gets run over again, and again.

Of course, it has been known for some time that Crozier did not send it to the Press. So what do you think about the Navy wanting Crozier back?

Oh, one last thing. The Captain of the Ship, would not fly off it in time of war in any plane. You see, while the Captain is a Pilot, it is a non flight post, which means he don’t fly anymore, unless he can get check rides when his duties as Captain permits. So pretty much No. On the off chance that during your imaginary war, the ship was damaged and sinking, the Captain would be charged and convicted of Dereliction of Duty if he was not the last person off the ship.

Someone the Captain sent the 'memo' to leaked it to the press. The Captain is DIRECTLY responsible for that.
The Admiral was quartered two doors down from the Captain. The Admiral has stated he only learned about the memo from a press report. THAT is breaking the chain of command!!!!!!!!!!!
The Captain will NEVER EVER get command of another ship. He will quit or retire from a desk job.
Another time and place the Captain would have been locked up in the brig.
I NEVER said the Captain would abandon he post if a shooting war happened. In FACT I said in that event the boys back in Headquarters would figure out an excuse to relieve the Captain.

Ok. So I tell my superior information and it is given to the press and that is my fault? Are you insane? You are the kind of guy who would convict an accused of a crime because he must have done something to get here.

the Navy says reinstate the man. So obviously your assertions are false. The Chief of Naval Operations. That means the highest ranking Naval Officer. The CNO says that Crozier did the right thing. He sent it to the appropriate commands. So your complaint is again disproven.

The biggest problem is that you have no clue how the Navy works. You have no idea how the Command and Control works. And the Navy says that. Not just me. They said it when the investigation concluded that Crozier acted appropriately and should be reinstated.

Make sure to let us all know when the Navy reinstates the Captain. HAAAA HAAAAAA!!!!!

I wonder how bad you are at Chess. You must lose in a record low number of moves. For the sake of argument let’s say the Sec Def refuses to reinstate the Captain. All that support the Military and their families give Trump would be in question wouldn’t it? Wouldn’t they remember that when voting in November?

The smart thing politically for the Sec Def and Trump would be to reinstate the Captain and make it look like Moldy was the nut. Even a first year student would say that was smart. The nutters like you will vote Trump no matter what. It is the rest you have to win and letting this go on and on is not smart.

Honestly the election is Trumps to lose. Trying to lose it by alienating his base is not a good play.

What is even funnier or sadder is that you won’t admit how wrong you are. It is one thing to be ignorant. That is understandable. I am ignorant of many things. Ignorant means I do not know. Stupid is where you will not learn. You have the Civilian view of the Military. One line from the President to the lowest ranking sailor. No other lines anywhere.

Let’s play a game. I am a Private. I am given an order to drop off reports to the Supply Depot. I carry the reports. Along the way a Captain of another unit gives me an order to drive him to some headquarters and wait for him to return. What do I do? If I ignore the Captain who is not in my chain of command am I in the right?

According to you, yes. According to Regulations. No. An order may only be countermanded by the officer who gave the order or a higher ranking officer. The only way to disobey that Captain is if I was given an order by a Major. If my Lieutenant hunts me down and chews me out and orders me to do what he told me I am required to refuse that order. He does not outrank the Captain. I am guilty of about three crimes under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

There is an exception. An illegal order. I am not required to obey illegal orders. In fact. I am guilty of a crime if I do. If Crozier was ordered not to discuss the situation on the ship with anyone except his direct report superior that would be an illegal order. Crozier is required by Regulations to report to many different offices and commands.

That you do not know this, that you are ignorant is understandable. That you refuse to learn shows a different situation entirely. I wonder if the Sec Def will be an idiot or not? If he is, then President Biden is liable to submit the name of Captain Crozier to the Senate for confirmation to promote him to Rear Admiral (Lower Half).

I really do not want to see President Biden. But I also know that if it happens it is Trumps own fault.

You fucking jerk!
NO Captain would order you to ignore your original order unless it was a matter of national security after you informed him you were following your Captain's order.
If he did he would be reprimanded or worse.
You're not very smart are you?

 

[Kilroy2]

Trump fever catch it. The guy who is in charge berates the captain because he sent a letter to the chain of command. He suppose to have know that it would have been leaked. He is then accused that the captain knew that it would be leaked.

Serious if this is the guy leading the Navy then if he was on a ship now, he be walking the plank. It sounds like the navy is embarrassed. He just made this captain a hero. He followed the chain of command by notifying his superiors of the issues aboard his ship. He was looking out for his men.

Sorry it embarrass Trump and his boys.

You are a fucking LIAR!
The Captain went around the chain of command. THAT is the reason he was relieved of his command.
The first thing ANYONE in the military is taught is to follow the chain of command.
The 'fraggers' are soon weeded out and sent back to mommy.
Basically the Captain 'lost his bottle' in a time of stress.
Everyone in the Navy brass KNEW he was a good 'peacetime Captain'. But when the shooting started he would be on the first plane off the deck.

Well it seems that the Actual Navy, instead of the one in your imagination, disagrees with you entirely. The Investigation determined that the Captain sent the Memo to ten people, including his direct report supervisor, and the other nine were appropriate commands. The Chief of Naval Operations, has recommended that Captain Crozier be reinstated immediately. The Secretary of Defense is now considering the investigation and the recommendation.

So it seems that you were wrong at least according to the Navy, and then again so was I. I said the Navy would not reinstate this guy because it would be embarrassing to admit they were wrong to remove him. I guess not only are they throwing Moldy under the bus, but they’re backing the bus up to make sure he gets run over again, and again.

Of course, it has been known for some time that Crozier did not send it to the Press. So what do you think about the Navy wanting Crozier back?

Oh, one last thing. The Captain of the Ship, would not fly off it in time of war in any plane. You see, while the Captain is a Pilot, it is a non flight post, which means he don’t fly anymore, unless he can get check rides when his duties as Captain permits. So pretty much No. On the off chance that during your imaginary war, the ship was damaged and sinking, the Captain would be charged and convicted of Dereliction of Duty if he was not the last person off the ship.

Someone the Captain sent the 'memo' to leaked it to the press. The Captain is DIRECTLY responsible for that.
The Admiral was quartered two doors down from the Captain. The Admiral has stated he only learned about the memo from a press report. THAT is breaking the chain of command!!!!!!!!!!!
The Captain will NEVER EVER get command of another ship. He will quit or retire from a desk job.
Another time and place the Captain would have been locked up in the brig.
I NEVER said the Captain would abandon he post if a shooting war happened. In FACT I said in that event the boys back in Headquarters would figure out an excuse to relieve the Captain.

The admiral two doors down. So you believe that the Captain is not going to bring up his concerns about his men to the Admiral. Do you believe that the Admiral was not aware of the situation going on in the same ship

The Captain did use his chain of command but they he probably got no results or their response was inadequate. The admiral knew but he wasn't going to sacrifice his career.

Plausible deniability by the admiral. The captain decided that this was on him and not to drag anyone else down.

He did something that Teddy Roosevelt did and yeah he probably knew that this would end his career as a Captain of a vessel. It is highly unlikely he will ever get his command back. Still not all officers have the chance to command a ship. Still this does show that he has skills in order to actually have been a captain. Depending on how many years he has in the military. He can retire in 20 years and have a retirement check and medical benefits. I do not see that as a court martial offense where he will be discharged from the Navy. It is a political bomb and the acting Navy secretary has already been forced to walk the plank.