Abortion , what do you anti-abortionists suggest to stop it??

[C_Clayton_Jones]

" Constitutionally Invalid Claims "

* Legal Victim Wanton *

No assumption to it. Just say no or face the consequences of being irresponsible.

Your assertion , that all elective abortion is irresponsible , is unfounded .

Sure a baby may not be perfect so someone may want to kill it in the womb. Big deal. That doesn't mean everyone else has to sanction you murdering a baby in the womb.

An embryo/fetus is not a ‘baby.’

Abortion is not ‘murder.’

Recognizing and respecting the privacy rights of women is not to ‘sanction’ abortion; it’s following the Constitution and the rule of law.

Indeed, it’s perfectly consistent to oppose abortion and seek its end while at the same time recognizing and respecting a woman’s right to privacy, and opposing the state compelling women to give birth against their will through force of law.

Conservatives lying about ‘murdering babies’ is yet another example of how dishonest and reprehensible most on the right truly are.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

1. Lock up women who get one and doctors who perform them?? (If, so for how long?)

2. Have monitors for the rich women who get D & C's in the hospital and cancel the morning after pill. If they go to another country to have an abortion, ban them for life, those murderers can stay in said country. (this will take a lot of surveillance).

3. Have men get a lock put on penis at age 10 (able to be taken off to cleanse area and adjust for getting engorged, should make the contraption pliable. Remember it only takes a look at a boob or female to make a man horny.

5. Make it against the law for men to pay for abortions, and jail the man if he does.

(I put this in the legal thread because I guess you want something to be done legally about the abortion issue?)

Remember these women are murderers, and the men are conspirators and involved in murder, the father needs to be found out and he needs to go to jail as well.

Remember its takes a male and female to make a zygote.
__________________________

I really want to know what you suggest for deterring abortions.

You are assuming that there is first a national law making abortion a felony.

Given that -- which will NEVER happen -- then how would you enforce it?

Same as for murder I suppose. Ergo you cannot prevent it just as you cannot prevent murder.

You can only punish it.

So the O/P question is really meaningless because it contains within it a self contradiction.

Actually not.

Given the Supreme Court’s majority, it’s quite likely that states will be allowed violate a woman’s right to privacy in the foreseeable future by seeking to ‘ban’ abortion.

There won’t be Federal legislation ‘banning’ abortion (although there’s no guarantee of that), but a significant number of states will enact measures authorizing a woman’s right to privacy be violated by compelling her to give birth against her will through force of law.

Consequently, the thread premise is very meaningful, as women in such states are entitled to know how those hostile to privacy rights intend to violate a woman’s right to privacy, and if she’ll be subject to criminal prosecution accordingly.

Agree

States will not ban abortion, they will ban abortion clinics
Make it too dificult to meet all the petty regulations imposed on them

True, that’s one tactic states hostile to privacy rights could take: enact regulatory measures so byzantine, draconian, and burdensome that no healthcare provider would be able to afford women the procedure; abortion would remain ‘legal’ but completely unavailable – resulting in a de facto ‘ban.’

Again, women in states hostile to privacy rights need to understand that this is likely to happen and prepare accordingly.

Indeed, women need to understand that the assault on privacy rights won’t concern solely abortion, but will adversely effect birth control and reproductive issues comprehensively.

With Griswold/Eisenstadt/Roe/Casey/Whole Woman’s Health no longer the law of the land, states will also be able to seek to ban ‘morning after’ pills, IUDs, and other contraceptive methods their use no longer recognized as Constitutionally protected.

Women in states that are hostile to reproductive rights deserve what they get.
A majority of women in red states voted for Trump. Trump was very clear what he would do to the courts.
If they lose their reproductive rights, they have no one to blame but themselves

Disagree.

Just because one might be in the minority in his state doesn’t mean he forfeits his fundamental rights, it doesn’t mean one’s rights are subject to ‘majority rule.’

Indeed, the very purpose of our Constitutional Republic, the Constitution, its case law, and the rule of law is to protect citizens from the fear, ignorance, bigotry, racism, hate, and stupidity of the majority – such as the authoritarian right’s desire to compel conformity and punish those who dare dissent.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

" Delusions Of Grandeur About Hue Mammon Apes "

* Fallacious Terminology *

Sure a baby may not be perfect so someone may want to kill it in the womb. Big deal. That doesn't mean everyone else has to sanction you murdering a baby in the womb.

A baby babbles and represents a period between birth and childhood ; hence , a baby and a faeioutys are not equivalent and the former does not exist in the womb .

Post parturition , when one meets the criteria of birth for equal protection , then - by definition ( see legal positivism ) a murder may be defined , but until then the faeioutys is the private property of the mother .

Sorry you can't legally own a human being even though you are bound to be responsible for that being as a child unless you give that right away. That baby in the womb is a separate being even though its life depends on the mother's life being sustain.

Wrong.

This fails as a false comparison fallacy.

It is a settled, accepted fact of Constitutional law – beyond dispute – that prior to birth an embryo/fetus is not a ‘person’ entitled to Constitutional protections (see Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992)).

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

1. Lock up women who get one and doctors who perform them?? (If, so for how long?)

2. Have monitors for the rich women who get D & C's in the hospital and cancel the morning after pill. If they go to another country to have an abortion, ban them for life, those murderers can stay in said country. (this will take a lot of surveillance).

3. Have men get a lock put on penis at age 10 (able to be taken off to cleanse area and adjust for getting engorged, should make the contraption pliable. Remember it only takes a look at a boob or female to make a man horny.

5. Make it against the law for men to pay for abortions, and jail the man if he does.

(I put this in the legal thread because I guess you want something to be done legally about the abortion issue?)

Remember these women are murderers, and the men are conspirators and involved in murder, the father needs to be found out and he needs to go to jail as well.

Remember its takes a male and female to make a zygote.
__________________________

I really want to know what you suggest for deterring abortions.

Wait till all you liberals execute all your unborn babies, then when there are only Conservatives left in this country, the abortion problem is solved, no more welfare, no more global warming, it will be a wonderful life...

View attachment 227952

So...you think only liberals have abortions?

...and married women don't have abortions.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Abortion is a tough decision for women to make. Having a baby would be a disaster for a woman already living on the edge.

Take the edge off. Universal health care, including birth control, and living wages would be a great help.

 

[rightwinger]

Show us an example where abstinence failed. And rape doesn’t count. Don’t worry we’ll wait...

every time one of these little christian bitches gets knocked up

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/pu.../409-the-truth-about-abstinence-only-programs

The Claim: Research shows that abstinence-only education delays sexual initiation and reduces teen pregnancy.

The Facts: Abstinence-only education programs are not effective at delaying the initiation of sexual activity or in reducing teen pregnancy.

• A long-awaited, federally-funded evaluation of four carefully selected abstinence-only education programs, published in April 2007, showed that youth enrolled in the programs were no more likely than those not in the programs to delay sexual initiation, to have fewer sexual partners, or to abstain entirely from sex.[6]
• Numerous state evaluations of federally-funded programs have yielded similar conclusions. A 2004 review by Advocates for Youth of 11 state-based evaluations found that abstinence-only programs showed little evidence of sustained (long-term) impact on attitudes and intentions. Worse, they showed some negative impacts on youth's willingness to use contraception, including condoms, to prevent negative sexual health outcomes related to sexual intercourse. In only one state did any program demonstrate short-term success in youth’s delaying the initiation of sex. None of the programs showed evidence of long-term success in delaying sexual initiation among youth enrolled in the programs. None of the programs showed any evidence of success in reducing other sexual risk-taking behaviors among participants.[7] More specifically, a 2003 Pennsylvania evaluation found that the state-sponsored programs were largely ineffective in delaying sexual onset or promoting skills and attitudes consistent with sexual abstinence.[7] Arizona and Kansas had similar findings of no change in behaviors.[7] A 2004 evaluation from Texas found no significant changes in the percentage of students who pledged not to have sex until marriage. As in two other studies, the Texas analysis revealed that the percentage of students who reported having engaged in sexual intercourse increased for nearly all ages.[7]

Every time one of these “Christian bitches” gets knocked up; it is because they cease to implement abstinence...
Sounds like you feel threatened by Christianity. No surprise there. People who lack principles often feel that way...

Exactly
Abstinence only works until the desire to fuk overwhelms you
Happens every time

“Overwhelms you”! LOL!!! You sound like a serial rapist... Normal humans have self control, and make choices. Only nutjobs and animals are beholden to emotion.
These women are fully responsible for their decision to abandon the practice of abstinence.

Actually they don't
Abstinence works up until it doesn't .....when those juices start flowing

 

[rightwinger]

Abortion is a tough decision for women to make. Having a baby would be a disaster for a woman already living on the edge.

Take the edge off. Universal health care, including birth control, and living wages would be a great help.

Many people, including married people, live on the edge
They rely on two incomes, many employers won't hold a job for a pregnant woman, caring for a child or additional child are a financial burden for those already struggling to get by

 

[Natural Citizen]

Here's the thing. It's really none of my business what people do, so long as I'm not forced at the barrel of a government gun to fund and support it. They can do them and I can do me, and as long as it stays that way, we're good.

The only time I'll openly defend it is if lets say a lady got bamboozled in the grocery store parking lot and was raped. If she comes into the emergency room and says please help me, I've just been raped, well, then, you give her a shot.

The only other question I'd ever ask is what's the difference between offspring one minute before birth and one second after.

 

[Vastator]

Show us an example where abstinence failed. And rape doesn’t count. Don’t worry we’ll wait...

every time one of these little christian bitches gets knocked up

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/pu.../409-the-truth-about-abstinence-only-programs

The Claim: Research shows that abstinence-only education delays sexual initiation and reduces teen pregnancy.

The Facts: Abstinence-only education programs are not effective at delaying the initiation of sexual activity or in reducing teen pregnancy.

• A long-awaited, federally-funded evaluation of four carefully selected abstinence-only education programs, published in April 2007, showed that youth enrolled in the programs were no more likely than those not in the programs to delay sexual initiation, to have fewer sexual partners, or to abstain entirely from sex.[6]
• Numerous state evaluations of federally-funded programs have yielded similar conclusions. A 2004 review by Advocates for Youth of 11 state-based evaluations found that abstinence-only programs showed little evidence of sustained (long-term) impact on attitudes and intentions. Worse, they showed some negative impacts on youth's willingness to use contraception, including condoms, to prevent negative sexual health outcomes related to sexual intercourse. In only one state did any program demonstrate short-term success in youth’s delaying the initiation of sex. None of the programs showed evidence of long-term success in delaying sexual initiation among youth enrolled in the programs. None of the programs showed any evidence of success in reducing other sexual risk-taking behaviors among participants.[7] More specifically, a 2003 Pennsylvania evaluation found that the state-sponsored programs were largely ineffective in delaying sexual onset or promoting skills and attitudes consistent with sexual abstinence.[7] Arizona and Kansas had similar findings of no change in behaviors.[7] A 2004 evaluation from Texas found no significant changes in the percentage of students who pledged not to have sex until marriage. As in two other studies, the Texas analysis revealed that the percentage of students who reported having engaged in sexual intercourse increased for nearly all ages.[7]

Every time one of these “Christian bitches” gets knocked up; it is because they cease to implement abstinence...
Sounds like you feel threatened by Christianity. No surprise there. People who lack principles often feel that way...

Exactly
Abstinence only works until the desire to fuk overwhelms you
Happens every time

“Overwhelms you”! LOL!!! You sound like a serial rapist... Normal humans have self control, and make choices. Only nutjobs and animals are beholden to emotion.
These women are fully responsible for their decision to abandon the practice of abstinence.

Actually they don't
Abstinence works up until it doesn't .....when those juices start flowing

Not until “it doesn’t”. What an absurd comment. It works period. If people choose not to adhere to it... Then they get, what they get.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“Abortion , what do you anti-abortionists suggest to stop it??”

…consistent with the Constitution’s right to privacy.

That the right to privacy prohibits government from seeking to compel a woman to give birth against her will doesn’t mean private citizens aren’t at liberty to work to end abortion.

 

[RodISHI]

" Delusions Of Grandeur About Hue Mammon Apes "

* Fallacious Terminology *

Sure a baby may not be perfect so someone may want to kill it in the womb. Big deal. That doesn't mean everyone else has to sanction you murdering a baby in the womb.

A baby babbles and represents a period between birth and childhood ; hence , a baby and a faeioutys are not equivalent and the former does not exist in the womb .

Post parturition , when one meets the criteria of birth for equal protection , then - by definition ( see legal positivism ) a murder may be defined , but until then the faeioutys is the private property of the mother .

Sorry you can't legally own a human being even though you are bound to be responsible for that being as a child unless you give that right away. That baby in the womb is a separate being even though its life depends on the mother's life being sustain.

Wrong.

This fails as a false comparison fallacy.

It is a settled, accepted fact of Constitutional law – beyond dispute – that prior to birth an embryo/fetus is not a ‘person’ entitled to Constitutional protections (see Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992)).

I'd say you have issues.

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law which recognizes an embryo or fetus in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Classification Distinction Non Existent "

* Pandering To Legal Ignorance *

I'd say you have issues.
The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law which recognizes an embryo or fetus in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence.

The mother is the legal victim and flatulent language guilded by propagandists feigning that the faeioutys is a legal victim does nothing to deviate from the constitutional limitations .

A faeioutys is not entitled to equal protection , or any reprise for that matter , because it has not met the criteria of birth , which is why capital punishment is not an option , even if premeditated .

Rather , the mother is the legal victim and elevated penalties and separate offenses can be exacted for acts against her that include the killing of her unborn child , which in no way grants to the child any entitlements as a legal victim .

Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia
(2) (A) Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, the punishment for that separate offense is the same as the punishment provided under Federal law for that conduct had that injury or death occurred to the unborn child's mother.

(D) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the death penalty shall not be imposed for an offense under this section.

(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to permit the prosecution—
(1) of any person for conduct relating to an abortion for which the consent of the pregnant woman, or a person authorized by law to act on her behalf, has been obtained or for which such consent is implied by law;
(2) of any person for any medical treatment of the pregnant woman or her unborn child; or
(3) of any woman with respect to her unborn child.

 

[DGS49]

I haven't read through this whole thread, but has it occurred to anyone here that, prior to RvW, both the practitioner and the woman were subject to criminal sanctions for abortion, and there were powerful social sanctions against having one.

Surely everyone here has heard the expression, "shotgun wedding": girl gets pregnant, the biological father marries her, because the alternative - killing the baby - is UNACCEPTABLE to all involved.

So with this historical record, the thread poses the question, What on earth would prohibition of abortion look like?

It's not a difficult question.

Leftists always presume that NO ONE CHANGES THEIR BEHAVIOR AS A RESULT OF A CHANGE IN THE LAW. This is, of course, ridiculous. If a serious, immediate system of substantial criminal penalties were imposed and widely publicized, I guarantee you that men and women would change their reproductive behavior. THERE WOULD NOT BE hundreds of thousands of new Americans born in response to the elimination of the abortion option.

It ain't gonna happen; we are all pussies now. But criminalizarion could be done.

 

[JoeB131]

Every time one of these “Christian bitches” gets knocked up; it is because they cease to implement abstinence...
Sounds like you feel threatened by Christianity. No surprise there. People who lack principles often feel that way...

Um, the only reason why I feel "Threatened" by Christians, is that you have 2000 year history of torturing, murdering, burning people who disagree with you, not to mention supporting the worst dictators in history... this including each other over such issues of whether or not your Magic Sky Man turns into bread or not.

Gosnell was apprehended because of a fluke. The FBI was investigating illegal drug running and their paths crossed with Gosnell.

In fact, the FBI had no interest in Gosnell. If it had not been for local police who were incidentally involved and saw the horrors in the clinic, he would still be practicing today.

Unlikely... they had him dead to rights on the drug case.

Gosnell is what happens when you don't have single payer, universal health care. Any quack can set up shop and prey on poor people with no other options.

 

[Defiant1]

Show us an example where abstinence failed. And rape doesn’t count. Don’t worry we’ll wait...

every time one of these little christian bitches gets knocked up

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/pu.../409-the-truth-about-abstinence-only-programs

The Claim: Research shows that abstinence-only education delays sexual initiation and reduces teen pregnancy.

The Facts: Abstinence-only education programs are not effective at delaying the initiation of sexual activity or in reducing teen pregnancy.

• A long-awaited, federally-funded evaluation of four carefully selected abstinence-only education programs, published in April 2007, showed that youth enrolled in the programs were no more likely than those not in the programs to delay sexual initiation, to have fewer sexual partners, or to abstain entirely from sex.[6]
• Numerous state evaluations of federally-funded programs have yielded similar conclusions. A 2004 review by Advocates for Youth of 11 state-based evaluations found that abstinence-only programs showed little evidence of sustained (long-term) impact on attitudes and intentions. Worse, they showed some negative impacts on youth's willingness to use contraception, including condoms, to prevent negative sexual health outcomes related to sexual intercourse. In only one state did any program demonstrate short-term success in youth’s delaying the initiation of sex. None of the programs showed evidence of long-term success in delaying sexual initiation among youth enrolled in the programs. None of the programs showed any evidence of success in reducing other sexual risk-taking behaviors among participants.[7] More specifically, a 2003 Pennsylvania evaluation found that the state-sponsored programs were largely ineffective in delaying sexual onset or promoting skills and attitudes consistent with sexual abstinence.[7] Arizona and Kansas had similar findings of no change in behaviors.[7] A 2004 evaluation from Texas found no significant changes in the percentage of students who pledged not to have sex until marriage. As in two other studies, the Texas analysis revealed that the percentage of students who reported having engaged in sexual intercourse increased for nearly all ages.[7]

Every time one of these “Christian bitches” gets knocked up; it is because they cease to implement abstinence...
Sounds like you feel threatened by Christianity. No surprise there. People who lack principles often feel that way...

Exactly
Abstinence only works until the desire to fuk overwhelms you
Happens every time

Then it isn't abstinence, is it.

 

[JoeB131]

I haven't read through this whole thread, but has it occurred to anyone here that, prior to RvW, both the practitioner and the woman were subject to criminal sanctions for abortion, and there were powerful social sanctions against having one.

No, there really weren't. Fact is, there were just as many abortions performed before Roe. v. Wade as after. The birth rate didn't drop in 1973 or 1974 and actually started going up again in 1975.

The reality is women were never arrested or prosecuted for having abortions, and providers were only prosecuted if they fucked up and hurt the woman.

Surely everyone here has heard the expression, "shotgun wedding": girl gets pregnant, the biological father marries her, because the alternative - killing the baby - is UNACCEPTABLE to all involved.

Except, again, abortions were common and everyone knew where to get one.

Just like prostitution is illegal, but you can point out 20 places within a 10 mile radius where you can hire a hooker.

So with this historical record, the thread poses the question, What on earth would prohibition of abortion look like?

It's not a difficult question.

No, it really isn't.. and I can give you two real life examples.

The Philippines have the kind of laws you anti-choice nutters want. And it is estimated that there are 500K- 800K illegal abortions performed in the Philippines every year.

Another even worse example was Romania. In 1967, their crazy dictator got the idea of making Romania a powerhouse by banning birth control and abortion, and boosting the population... and it worked. For about a year. Then women figured out how to get around the laws.

So if a Military Dictatorship and a Communist Police State can't effectively end abortion, how can we?

Leftists always presume that NO ONE CHANGES THEIR BEHAVIOR AS A RESULT OF A CHANGE IN THE LAW. This is, of course, ridiculous. If a serious, immediate system of substantial criminal penalties were imposed and widely publicized, I guarantee you that men and women would change their reproductive behavior. THERE WOULD NOT BE hundreds of thousands of new Americans born in response to the elimination of the abortion option.

No, there won't be, because a system of illegal abortion clinics will pop up to replace them. Probably be a lot easier to establish them because of social media.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Government Established Religion "

* Theocracy For Dummies *

But criminalizarion could be done.

Then it isn't abstinence, is it.

Religious police - Wikipedia
Religious police is the police force responsible for the enforcement of religious norms and associated religious laws.

While most police enforcing religious norms in the modern world are Islamic and found in Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia or Iran, some are not (for example in Vietnam, the religious security police monitor “extremist” religious groups, detaining and interrogating suspected Dega Protestants or Ha Mon Catholics).[1]

Religious police, for example islamic religious police units or sharia police in certain parts of the Arab-speaking world, are morality squads that also monitors for example dress codes, observance of store-closures during prayer time, consumption of unlawful beverages or foods, unrelated males and females socializing, and homosexual behavior.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well let's see. There is abstinence, condoms, birth <CONTROL pills, day after pills...... And none of those require ripping a fetus apart in the womb.
There ya go...

And when all those fail?

I knew this gal who got pregnant because she didn't like the way the contraceptives made her feel. That and she was trying to force her no-account boyfriend to marry her. Well, he didn't, she got an abortion because she didn't want her Christian, Asian parents to know she wasn't still a virgin at 22.

And then a year later, she got back with the same creep and got knocked up again... another abortion.

Abstinence never fails!

Well, you know, except for that one time that a virgin gave birth.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ban all abortions, except for pregnancies that jeopardize the LIFE of the mother.
Prosecute doctors who perform abortions and put them in jail for murder.

That`s exactly how a western Pa. Congressman felt until he thought he impregnated his girlfriend and urged her to get an abortion. Oh yeah, this family values Republican was married at the time. I wonder how many of these so called "pro-life" people ever protested a war or wrote to their elected officials with concerns about gun violence. Until they do, I can`t take them seriously.
Tim Murphy resigns from Congress

Sorry, what does the "shocking" fact that there are hypocrites in the world have to do with anything?

 

[rightwinger]

every time one of these little christian bitches gets knocked up

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/pu.../409-the-truth-about-abstinence-only-programs

The Claim: Research shows that abstinence-only education delays sexual initiation and reduces teen pregnancy.

The Facts: Abstinence-only education programs are not effective at delaying the initiation of sexual activity or in reducing teen pregnancy.

• A long-awaited, federally-funded evaluation of four carefully selected abstinence-only education programs, published in April 2007, showed that youth enrolled in the programs were no more likely than those not in the programs to delay sexual initiation, to have fewer sexual partners, or to abstain entirely from sex.[6]
• Numerous state evaluations of federally-funded programs have yielded similar conclusions. A 2004 review by Advocates for Youth of 11 state-based evaluations found that abstinence-only programs showed little evidence of sustained (long-term) impact on attitudes and intentions. Worse, they showed some negative impacts on youth's willingness to use contraception, including condoms, to prevent negative sexual health outcomes related to sexual intercourse. In only one state did any program demonstrate short-term success in youth’s delaying the initiation of sex. None of the programs showed evidence of long-term success in delaying sexual initiation among youth enrolled in the programs. None of the programs showed any evidence of success in reducing other sexual risk-taking behaviors among participants.[7] More specifically, a 2003 Pennsylvania evaluation found that the state-sponsored programs were largely ineffective in delaying sexual onset or promoting skills and attitudes consistent with sexual abstinence.[7] Arizona and Kansas had similar findings of no change in behaviors.[7] A 2004 evaluation from Texas found no significant changes in the percentage of students who pledged not to have sex until marriage. As in two other studies, the Texas analysis revealed that the percentage of students who reported having engaged in sexual intercourse increased for nearly all ages.[7]

Every time one of these “Christian bitches” gets knocked up; it is because they cease to implement abstinence...
Sounds like you feel threatened by Christianity. No surprise there. People who lack principles often feel that way...

Exactly
Abstinence only works until the desire to fuk overwhelms you
Happens every time

“Overwhelms you”! LOL!!! You sound like a serial rapist... Normal humans have self control, and make choices. Only nutjobs and animals are beholden to emotion.
These women are fully responsible for their decision to abandon the practice of abstinence.

Actually they don't
Abstinence works up until it doesn't .....when those juices start flowing

Not until “it doesn’t”. What an absurd comment. It works period. If people choose not to adhere to it... Then they get, what they get.

Every pregnancy is a result of a failure of Abstinence

Abstinence is a choice just like having sex is a choice
Abstinence works until biological urges become too strong. Letting laid is a normal human function

Celibacy is not