A Thought

[William Joyce]

Communism is based on the creed, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." The assumption is that all people are equal in terms of their right to receive material: a more-skilled person does not have the right, under communism, to receive a dime more than a lazy or unskilled or unintelligent person.

Most folks on this board see the obvious problem there (I would hope). Not everybody is equally smart, hard-working or talented. And so the benefits are going to be distributed UNequally. That's tough. That's life. If you work harder than the next guy, YOU DESERVE A SLIGHTLY BETTER HOUSE. If you DON'T like that idea, you're a socialist and you need to go volunteer for the Democrats.

But when it comes to race, many conservatives completely abandon these ideas. They go along with the propaganda that says all races are equal. And they go along with the idea that each racial group must receive, as a proportion, the exact amount as every other racial group. Otherwise, something is "racist."

So how can people be against economic communism but FOR racial communism?

 

[no1tovote4]

Racial Communism? What a silly concept, giving it a snappy name doesn't make it real or even conceptually possible.

What people on this board are for is the judgement of each individual according to their abilities and not to give them special consideration either way by simply seeing their skin color.

To simply say that because this percent of some type of people do something this way that we should judge every person in that particular group of people the same and expect them all to do the same is inane.

 

[Johnney]

was this your thought, or did you get it off a fortune cookie?

 

[William Joyce]

Racial Communism? What a silly concept, giving it a snappy name doesn't make it real or even conceptually possible.

What people on this board are for is the judgement of each individual according to their abilities and not to give them special consideration either way by simply seeing their skin color.

To simply say that because this percent of some type of people do something this way that we should judge every person in that particular group of people the same and expect them all to do the same is inane.

Why can we judge people as individuals, but cannot judge them as members of groups?

 

[no1tovote4]

Why can we judge people as individuals, but cannot judge them as members of groups?

That would depend entirely on the generalizing of the groups. A race is too general, too many variables make differences so that an accurate description of the members of such a group would be impossible and would make it invalid and inaccurate if attempted.

Now if you take smaller side-groupings you may be able to more accurately depict expected reactions and results, but simply generalizing an entire race by the actions of that side group is inane. It would be like judging all whites by the actions of the Neo-Nazis, an unfair depiction if there ever was one. Or like saying Christian whites are violent because Timothy McVeigh bombed a building.

Characterizing an entire group by only the worst actions of a small subset of that group, say a subset of those that break the law, without regard to the reasons that may cause such action creates a picture that may lead one to a conclusion that is not based in reality, but in preconceived ideation. This is what happens when studies are done to find a specific conclusion rather than to find accurate results, or polls are taken with bias toward wanted results.

The smaller the study group, the better the accuracy of the study when predicting the actions of individuals, however because you are still dealing with individuals there is always a margin of error even in relatively small study groups. The Race of an individual is not accurate enough when looking to predict the actions of any individual, regardless of color, the margin of error becomes so large that no prediction of the actions of any individual member can be made.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Why can we judge people as individuals, but cannot judge them as members of groups?

America is a country of INDIVIDUALS with individual freedoms. Our laws reflect the rights of individuals, not the rights of groups.

That is why the enemies of our country always exacerbate GROUP things in order to breakdown the individual ideal and balkanize our country into opposition groups.

Divide and Conquer.

 

[William Joyce]

That would depend entirely on the generalizing of the groups. A race is too general, too many variables make differences so that an accurate description of the members of such a group would be impossible and would make it invalid and inaccurate if attempted.

Now if you take smaller side-groupings you may be able to more accurately depict expected reactions and results, but simply generalizing an entire race by the actions of that side group is inane. It would be like judging all whites by the actions of the Neo-Nazis, an unfair depiction if there ever was one. Or like saying Christian whites are violent because Timothy McVeigh bombed a building.

Characterizing an entire group by only the worst actions of a small subset of that group, say a subset of those that break the law, without regard to the reasons that may cause such action creates a picture that may lead one to a conclusion that is not based in reality, but in preconceived ideation. This is what happens when studies are done to find a specific conclusion rather than to find accurate results, or polls are taken with bias toward wanted results.

The smaller the study group, the better the accuracy of the study when predicting the actions of individuals, however because you are still dealing with individuals there is always a margin of error even in relatively small study groups. The Race of an individual is not accurate enough when looking to predict the actions of any individual, regardless of color, the margin of error becomes so large that no prediction of the actions of any individual member can be made.

OK, but what if you found that racial generalizations were accurate frequently? And also that members of racial groups interacted more smoothly with each other? One thing about human beings is that they tend to cluster by race naturally. But our system of laws and government (and all the liberal propaganda) says we can't do this. Or, it's OK if you're black, but not if you're white. So why do we have to force racial integration by law? Whatever happened to the idea of freedom?

 

[no1tovote4]

OK, but what if you found that racial generalizations were accurate frequently? And also that members of racial groups interacted more smoothly with each other? One thing about human beings is that they tend to cluster by race naturally. But our system of laws and government (and all the liberal propaganda) says we can't do this. Or, it's OK if you're black, but not if you're white. So why do we have to force racial integration by law? Whatever happened to the idea of freedom?

Nobody forces racial integration by law. You have the choice to hang with whomever you wish. While a school may be forced to take on somebody that is of a different race, you can never be forced to be their friend, nor they yours.

However, racial stereotypes do not fit the individuals as often as you might like, and never often enough to predict the actions of an individual within such a large group, sometimes one action that isn't normal for the person can be seen as fitting but it does not match regular action by the individual and other misapplied guesswork can apply. As I said, until you break them down into smaller groups you cannot effectively predict the actions of an individual using those stereotypes and even when you do, more often than not it will fit but individuals are often surprising and work outside the stereotype that may be applied to the group.

As for Humans naturally separating into different groups by race, this is actually a pre-historic action and smacks of animalistic qualities where us and them are divided solely by what looks different. Those that cannot overcome the natural instinct to distrust what looks different than they are closer to the animalistic pre-historic actions of our ancestors and definitely not more enlightened or advanced in any way, nor any less advanced, just more accepting of the instinct over intelligent interpretation. This may be caused by indoctrination from childhood to accept it, by a heavier natural inclination of distrust, or by decision to believe the instinct. Each of these are difficult to overcome and it must be done by choice.

Not only can this be applied in racial tones but even in cliques within the races. One gang of one color will attack another gang of the same color if found within their "territory", even those that may look the same such as SHARPies and Skinheads.

It is significant to see that we can work beyond that animalistic instinct and include others into our group but cannot work beyond it entirely without conscience intervention. To take the easiest path and simply let our instincts preside over intelligence is, in my opinion, a sad and pitiable condition indeed.

Here is a good article about this very thing:

http://www.georgekoch.com/articles/Fear_of_the_Other.htm

 

[insein]

Communism is based on the creed, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." The assumption is that all people are equal in terms of their right to receive material: a more-skilled person does not have the right, under communism, to receive a dime more than a lazy or unskilled or unintelligent person.

Most folks on this board see the obvious problem there (I would hope). Not everybody is equally smart, hard-working or talented. And so the benefits are going to be distributed UNequally. That's tough. That's life. If you work harder than the next guy, YOU DESERVE A SLIGHTLY BETTER HOUSE. If you DON'T like that idea, you're a socialist and you need to go volunteer for the Democrats.

But when it comes to race, many conservatives completely abandon these ideas. They go along with the propaganda that says all races are equal. And they go along with the idea that each racial group must receive, as a proportion, the exact amount as every other racial group. Otherwise, something is "racist."

So how can people be against economic communism but FOR racial communism?

The problem with that logic is that you assume that by artificially making all races equal, your declaring one race is inferior. People in general are inferior or superior to other people. Race does not play into it. If your qualified IMO you get the job. If a guy is smart enough and capable of handling a job then he should get said job.

 

[William Joyce]

Nobody forces racial integration by law.

This is simply not true. In fact, under federal law, you cannot decline to hire someone because of race, you cannot decline to rent to someone because of race, and you cannot decline to sell a home because of race. Federal judges across the land have ordered desegregation of schools under highly invasive schemes.

If your qualified IMO you get the job. If a guy is smart enough and capable of handling a job then he should get said job.

But who decides this? Look, you don't have the choice here. If you decide a black man isn't qualified, you are subject to a lawsuit, no matter what. And you will lose. You will be found guilty of racial discrimination.

I gather nobody responding here has had dealings with the American legal system!

 

[insein]

But who decides this? Look, you don't have the choice here. If you decide a black man isn't qualified, you are subject to a lawsuit, no matter what. And you will lose. You will be found guilty of racial discrimination.

I gather nobody responding here has had dealings with the American legal system!

I agree. Affirmative action is bullshit. A private employer should be able to higher a person on any criteria they see fit. If they only want to higher white men, then they should be allowed to. If they feel black females are all they want then so be it. If they think midgets that stand on 1 leg are required for the job, then thats their perorgative. Same goes for firing. If they feel that they want to fire you because they dont like the way you dress or act or who you hang out with, its their business and they can run it their way.

I dont like the government telling ANYONE to do ANYThING in the private sector, business related.

 

[no1tovote4]

This is simply not true. In fact, under federal law, you cannot decline to hire someone because of race, you cannot decline to rent to someone because of race, and you cannot decline to sell a home because of race. Federal judges across the land have ordered desegregation of schools under highly invasive schemes.

Giving somebody a job does not mean you have to hang with them, nor does selling a house. Integration in schools has begun to reverse itself lately, but even when it was taking place people still were able to choose who they hung around with. And it also isn't necessarily true that you have to hire somebody because they are black. If you own a KKK shop you would not be forced to hire a Black person, nor would one apply. You would not be able to be a Government contractor because of hiring practices but the Government would not force you to find a Black person to hire.

 

[Yurt]

Giving somebody a job does not mean you have to hang with them, nor does selling a house. Integration in schools has begun to reverse itself lately, but even when it was taking place people still were able to choose who they hung around with. And it also isn't necessarily true that you have to hire somebody because they are black. If you own a KKK shop you would not be forced to hire a Black person, nor would one apply. You would not be able to be a Government contractor because of hiring practices but the Government would not force you to find a Black person to hire.

Actually this is not quite true. For instance, many large corporations (abacrombie and fitch) were forced to hire blacks and other minorities because they were sued by black and minorities who alleged racial disparity in their hiring. Essentially AF was given a quota of minorities to hire. Before this, they hired only who they wanted, now they are forced to hire minorities and you better that there will be blacks among them as they are the most vocal minority when it comes to alleged disparity.

There is a growing trend among black people to look down on affirmative action. Some I know felt that it made them look like handouts to their co workers. In fact, these guys/girls were very talented and got hired for their talent, yet, they could sometimes sense that others wondered if this was true. Affirmative action should be regaled to the history bin.

 

[no1tovote4]

Actually this is not quite true. For instance, many large corporations (abacrombie and fitch) were forced to hire blacks and other minorities because they were sued by black and minorities who alleged racial disparity in their hiring. Essentially AF was given a quota of minorities to hire. Before this, they hired only who they wanted, now they are forced to hire minorities and you better that there will be blacks among them as they are the most vocal minority when it comes to alleged disparity.

There is a growing trend among black people to look down on affirmative action. Some I know felt that it made them look like handouts to their co workers. In fact, these guys/girls were very talented and got hired for their talent, yet, they could sometimes sense that others wondered if this was true. Affirmative action should be regaled to the history bin.

The difference between Abercrombie and Fitch and a KKK shop is the basis on which the company was founded. Abercrombie and Fitch were not founded on the basis of racial segregation such as the KKK shop would be.

The point is, if you wish your shop to be open enough to draw large amounts of business you open yourself to those particular laws. Also privately owned companies as opposed to publicly traded companies are held to different standards, but even publicly traded companies cannot be forced to go against the basic premise of the founding of the corporation.

Personally I believe that Affirmative Action promotes racial predjudice by allowing others to continue believing that a black person or hispanic or any other group received employment only because of the AA program and not because of their ability. This works in college as well as in employment.