A Tea Party Wants Mandatory Christmas Carols In Public Schools

[Yukon]

You people refuse to accept fact. Church and State are separate, a scholl board cannot promote Christian values. Your crazy Constipation says so aka the 2nd.

 

[Yurt]

Wrong. This initiative would give the State the power to overrule any schools/boards that would choose not to offer Christmas caroling.

And school board officials are elected representatives, elected by the voters in the school district.

let me get this right....you're ok with allowing a school board to make the decision, but you're not ok allowing the community to choose to allow students the opportunity to sing carols and if the school doesn't allow it, then they simply go to court and get the approval?

The school board members are the elected representatives of the 'community'. If you elect a school board that decides yes to caroling, so be it. If they decide no, so be it. Provided it all stands constitutional muster.

why did you cut off the second half of my post?

illogical....as if the community has zero say in how local governments are run....i am willing to bet that you fully supported atheists rights to sue in court to avoid saying the pledge because it says "one nation under god".....or, if the school board mandated christmas carols, you would fully support ignoring their decree and support someone suing in court to overturn that decree.....am i correct?

why is it you can't answer those questions?

and its clear that you support parents right to still go to court....thus, this initiative doesn't change a thing, you just hate it because its about christmas....all they want is to sing traditional carols....why do you hate that?

 

[Yurt]

let's see how this focuses on religion, rather than tradition as i've been saying, here is the text....how show me how this violates the constitution:


52710. The people of Califomia find and declare both of the following:
(a) Listening to, or performing, Christmas music during the holiday season is a
longstanding American tradition and a significant element of our cultural heritage as
Americans.
(b) The parents and guardians ofpublic school children should have the right to
decide whether or not their children may hear Christmas music in the classrooms and
assemblies at those schools.
52711. As used in this article, "Christmas music" includes, but is not necessarily
limited to, carols, songs, and instrumental works whose subject matter relates to the
celebration ofthe Christmas holiday or to the season during which that holiday is
observed.


and again, no one is mandated to participate

Except when it gets to the part that you omitted:

52712. (a) Each public elementary and secondary school shall provide
opportunities to its pupils for listening to or performing Christmas music at an
appropriate time of year. The appreciation or performance ofthe Christmas music may
be incorporated into the subject matter of an arts or social studies class, presented for
cultural enrichment during a school assembly, or both.

Which is where is mandates that schools provide resources for specific religious ceremonies.

Though other people are not in fact required to participate, the taxpayers of said school district would be required to pay for the resources necessary to allow for the religious ceremonies.

Providing funding for a specific religion through a congressional mandate is specifically unconstitutional as per the first amendment.

Do you think teachers and support personnel work for free? Do you think kids will just be able to sing christmas carols privately in a public school with no oversight?

If you want your children to have religon with their education, there are a host of private religious schools that you can send them to.

all they want are traditional christmas carols....not all carols are religious and as i quoted from the initiative....they aren't even asking for just religious christmas carols....

next

 

[California Girl]

GOOD--it's about time we got back to traditional values in this country, instead of trying to be politically correct & accomodate all minority religions--with a stupid fear that we may insult them. If they don't like it, move the hell out of this country.

Kids love the Christmas plays & songs--so why deny them that?

And here's a good example of what these people are really after.

"Traditional Values" in this case meaning everyone being Christian.

Or in Ann Coulters words "They should all be converted or killed". She was speaking of Muslims of course, but I'm sure once all the Muslims are dealt with, she'll say the same about any other religion that threatens the sovereignity of Christianity.

Except that isn't what she actually said, is it?

Personally, I find it dispicable when people put words into the mouths of others, putting them in quotes to make it look as though that's exactly what the person said.

To see what Coulter actually said - and the context in which she spoke - see below.

Coulter on ABC & FOX - opining that Dems have "all become jock-sniffers for war veterans" | Media Matters for America

 

[NYcarbineer]

[

illogical....as if the community has zero say in how local governments are run....i am willing to bet that you fully supported atheists rights to sue in court to avoid saying the pledge because it says "one nation under god".....or, if the school board mandated christmas carols, you would fully support ignoring their decree and support someone suing in court to overturn that decree.....am i correct?

why is it you can't answer those questions?

and its clear that you support parents right to still go to court....thus, this initiative doesn't change a thing, you just hate it because its about christmas....all they want is to sing traditional carols....why do you hate that?

The community elects the school board. The community HAS a say in how the local government is run. Do you deny that?

 

[Yurt]

[

illogical....as if the community has zero say in how local governments are run....i am willing to bet that you fully supported atheists rights to sue in court to avoid saying the pledge because it says "one nation under god".....or, if the school board mandated christmas carols, you would fully support ignoring their decree and support someone suing in court to overturn that decree.....am i correct?

why is it you can't answer those questions?

and its clear that you support parents right to still go to court....thus, this initiative doesn't change a thing, you just hate it because its about christmas....all they want is to sing traditional carols....why do you hate that?

The community elects the school board. The community HAS a say in how the local government is run. Do you deny that?

still ignoring and running from the questions....

 

[Vast LWC]

all they want are traditional christmas carols....not all carols are religious and as i quoted from the initiative....they aren't even asking for just religious christmas carols....

next

They are called "CHRISTMAS carols". They are songs to celebrate the anniversary of the birth of Jesus Christ.

Other songs that celebrate the season, but not the holiday, would be called "seasonal music". Like "Chestnuts roasting on an open fire", "Let it Snow".

The proposal specifically calls for "Christmas Carols", not "Seasonal Music".

Now personally, I could care less if my kids or anybody else's kids sing "Christmas Carols", "Seasonal Music", or Chanukah Songs.

I will not, however, allow funding for religious hymns, songs or prayers to be legislated from my tax money. Period.

If you want your children to be indoctrinated in a religion in school, SEND THEM TO PRIVATE SCHOOL. That's what private schools are for.

"Next."

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Yea and??... The Hopey Changey creeps are forcing the children to sing songs of praise to their beloved Chairman O,so i see no problem with this. If you're going to force the children to sing songs of praise to the President then why not this? Pandora's Box has already been opened. Hmm?

 

[Vast LWC]

GOOD--it's about time we got back to traditional values in this country, instead of trying to be politically correct & accomodate all minority religions--with a stupid fear that we may insult them. If they don't like it, move the hell out of this country.

Kids love the Christmas plays & songs--so why deny them that?

And here's a good example of what these people are really after.

"Traditional Values" in this case meaning everyone being Christian.

Or in Ann Coulters words "They should all be converted or killed". She was speaking of Muslims of course, but I'm sure once all the Muslims are dealt with, she'll say the same about any other religion that threatens the sovereignity of Christianity.

Except that isn't what she actually said, is it?

Personally, I find it dispicable when people put words into the mouths of others, putting them in quotes to make it look as though that's exactly what the person said.

To see what Coulter actually said - and the context in which she spoke - see below.

Coulter on ABC & FOX - opining that Dems have "all become jock-sniffers for war veterans" | Media Matters for America

I Watched coulter say that on Hannity and Colmes. I saw it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears.

She said, specifically, in her column: "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

On Hannity & Colmes, Alan Colmes asked her, "Of course you weren't serious when you said that? You were joking, right?"

To which she responded, "Yes, I was serious".

Don't try to give me any bullshit spin, I personally witnessed it. I had a DVR, and re-wound to watch it twice, just to make sure.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Gotta love the Hopey Changey loons. They fully support forcing the children to sing songs of praise to their beloved Chairman O but then get all worked up over silly stuff like this. Just because some Tea Partiers would like to see this,it doesn't mean that it will happen. However the children are still currently being forced to sing songs of praise to the President. I find this to be much more disturbing than kids singing Christmas Carols. Hey that's just me though. Hmm?

 

[NYcarbineer]

[


why is it you can't answer those questions?

and its clear that you support parents right to still go to court....thus, this initiative doesn't change a thing, you just hate it because its about christmas....all they want is to sing traditional carols....why do you hate that?

The community elects the school board. The community HAS a say in how the local government is run. Do you deny that?

still ignoring and running from the questions....

Logical fallacy.

Do you deny that communities have a say in their school boards' actions or not?

 

[Yurt]

all they want are traditional christmas carols....not all carols are religious and as i quoted from the initiative....they aren't even asking for just religious christmas carols....

next

They are called "CHRISTMAS carols". They are songs to celebrate the anniversary of the birth of Jesus Christ.

Other songs that celebrate the season, but not the holiday, would be called "seasonal music". Like "Chestnuts roasting on an open fire", "Let it Snow".

The proposal specifically calls for "Christmas Carols", not "Seasonal Music".

Now personally, I could care less if my kids or anybody else's kids sing "Christmas Carols", "Seasonal Music", or Chanukah Songs.

I will not, however, allow funding for religious hymns, songs or prayers to be legislated from my tax money. Period.

If you want your children to be indoctrinated in a religion in school, SEND THEM TO PRIVATE SCHOOL. That's what private schools are for.

"Next."

not true....a simple google reveals let it snow is a christmas carol....i have no doubt so is chestnuts...

CHRISTMAS-CAROLS.NET : Let It Snow

the holiday is called CHRISTMAS...it is a federal holiday observed nationally....singing traditional christmas carols that celebrate our culture and heritage is all the initiative asks for.....

you should read it....it is not about indoctrinating anyone....further, anyone can opt out, no one is forced....it is clear you have no idea what you're talking about

 

[Vast LWC]

Yea and??... The Hopey Changey creeps are forcing the children to sing songs of praise to their beloved Chairman O,so i see no problem with this. If you're going to force the children to sing songs of praise to the President then why not this? Pandora's Box has already been opened. Hmm?

It is ironic that you mentioned this.

No-one legislated that songs about the president be sung or heard in classrooms. The school and the children voluntarily did it. The parents gave their permission.

And you people raised holy hell about that. You all screamed that it was some sort of "Indoctrination".

Well, let me ask you something. If singing about a popular political figure is "indoctrination" then how is singing about a popular religious figure NOT indoctrination?

Again, personally I don't care what people sing. As far as I'm concerned, the first amendment give whoever the right to singn whatever they want.

But this proposal is specifically aimed at promoting a single form of religious expression, and, more importantly, at forcing public schools to provide the funding.

 

[Yurt]

Yea and??... The Hopey Changey creeps are forcing the children to sing songs of praise to their beloved Chairman O,so i see no problem with this. If you're going to force the children to sing songs of praise to the President then why not this? Pandora's Box has already been opened. Hmm?

It is ironic that you mentioned this.

No-one legislated that songs about the president be sung or heard in classrooms. The school and the children voluntarily did it. The parents gave their permission.

And you people raised holy hell about that. You all screamed that it was some sort of "Indoctrination".

Well, let me ask you something. If singing about a popular political figure is "indoctrination" then how is singing about a popular religious figure NOT indoctrination?

Again, personally I don't care what people sing. As far as I'm concerned, the first amendment give whoever the right to singn whatever they want.

But this proposal is specifically aimed at promoting a single form of religious expression, and, more importantly, at forcing public schools to provide the funding.

they didn't have a choice....this initiative is about choice and parents can choose ahead of time....

good lord, its clear you have no idea what you're talking about...

 

[Ravi]

all they want are traditional christmas carols....not all carols are religious and as i quoted from the initiative....they aren't even asking for just religious christmas carols....

next

They are called "CHRISTMAS carols". They are songs to celebrate the anniversary of the birth of Jesus Christ.

Other songs that celebrate the season, but not the holiday, would be called "seasonal music". Like "Chestnuts roasting on an open fire", "Let it Snow".

The proposal specifically calls for "Christmas Carols", not "Seasonal Music".

Now personally, I could care less if my kids or anybody else's kids sing "Christmas Carols", "Seasonal Music", or Chanukah Songs.

I will not, however, allow funding for religious hymns, songs or prayers to be legislated from my tax money. Period.

If you want your children to be indoctrinated in a religion in school, SEND THEM TO PRIVATE SCHOOL. That's what private schools are for.

"Next."

not true....a simple google reveals let it snow is a christmas carol....i have no doubt so is chestnuts...

CHRISTMAS-CAROLS.NET : Let It Snow

the holiday is called CHRISTMAS...it is a federal holiday observed nationally....singing traditional christmas carols that celebrate our culture and heritage is all the initiative asks for.....

you should read it....it is not about indoctrinating anyone....further, anyone can opt out, no one is forced....it is clear you have no idea what you're talking about

So I suppose on MLK day the students shall be exposed to music celebrating a black president.

 

[maineman]

let's see how this focuses on religion, rather than tradition as i've been saying, here is the text....how show me how this violates the constitution:


52710. The people of Califomia find and declare both of the following:
(a) Listening to, or performing, Christmas music during the holiday season is a
longstanding American tradition and a significant element of our cultural heritage as
Americans.
(b) The parents and guardians ofpublic school children should have the right to
decide whether or not their children may hear Christmas music in the classrooms and
assemblies at those schools.
52711. As used in this article, "Christmas music" includes, but is not necessarily
limited to, carols, songs, and instrumental works whose subject matter relates to the
celebration ofthe Christmas holiday or to the season during which that holiday is
observed.


and again, no one is mandated to participate

Except when it gets to the part that you omitted:

52712. (a) Each public elementary and secondary school shall provide
opportunities to its pupils for listening to or performing Christmas music at an
appropriate time of year. The appreciation or performance ofthe Christmas music may
be incorporated into the subject matter of an arts or social studies class, presented for
cultural enrichment during a school assembly, or both.

Which is where is mandates that schools provide resources for specific religious ceremonies.

Though other people are not in fact required to participate, the taxpayers of said school district would be required to pay for the resources necessary to allow for the religious ceremonies.

Providing funding for a specific religion through a congressional mandate is specifically unconstitutional as per the first amendment.

Do you think teachers and support personnel work for free? Do you think kids will just be able to sing christmas carols privately in a public school with no oversight?

If you want your children to have religon with their education, there are a host of private religious schools that you can send them to.

all they want are traditional christmas carols....not all carols are religious and as i quoted from the initiative....they aren't even asking for just religious christmas carols....

next

name me ONE "Christmas Carol" that is not religious.

 

[Vast LWC]

not true....a simple google reveals let it snow is a christmas carol....i have no doubt so is chestnuts...

CHRISTMAS-CAROLS.NET : Let It Snow

the holiday is called CHRISTMAS...it is a federal holiday observed nationally....singing traditional christmas carols that celebrate our culture and heritage is all the initiative asks for.....

you should read it....it is not about indoctrinating anyone....further, anyone can opt out, no one is forced....it is clear you have no idea what you're talking about

So, "The little drummer boy", "Joy to the World", etc etc, are not "Christmas Carols"???

Look man, I was raised catholic. I know my Christmas carols. In fact I probably know every word of 99% of every "Traditional Christmas Carol". Don't try getting semantic on me.

The holiday is observed nationally for convenience, because Christians make up a majority of the population.

Jews get to take off for all their holidays.

And I have read it. I don't even think singing Christmas Carols in school is about indoctrinating anyone, nor do I think the "Obama song" was indoctrination.

All I care about is that the Constitution specifically states that religion cannot be legislated by congress.

If you get a constitutional amendment that says otherwise, more power to you, but until that day, this is completely unconstitutional. Period.

 

[maineman]

all they want are traditional christmas carols....not all carols are religious and as i quoted from the initiative....they aren't even asking for just religious christmas carols....

next

They are called "CHRISTMAS carols". They are songs to celebrate the anniversary of the birth of Jesus Christ.

Other songs that celebrate the season, but not the holiday, would be called "seasonal music". Like "Chestnuts roasting on an open fire", "Let it Snow".

The proposal specifically calls for "Christmas Carols", not "Seasonal Music".

Now personally, I could care less if my kids or anybody else's kids sing "Christmas Carols", "Seasonal Music", or Chanukah Songs.

I will not, however, allow funding for religious hymns, songs or prayers to be legislated from my tax money. Period.

If you want your children to be indoctrinated in a religion in school, SEND THEM TO PRIVATE SCHOOL. That's what private schools are for.

"Next."

not true....a simple google reveals let it snow is a christmas carol....i have no doubt so is chestnuts...

CHRISTMAS-CAROLS.NET : Let It Snow

the holiday is called CHRISTMAS...it is a federal holiday observed nationally....singing traditional christmas carols that celebrate our culture and heritage is all the initiative asks for.....

you should read it....it is not about indoctrinating anyone....further, anyone can opt out, no one is forced....it is clear you have no idea what you're talking about

there is a difference between songs and carols. Let it Snow is not a carol.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Yes so forcing children to sing songs of praise to Chairman O is just fine but don't you dare force the poor children to sing about that "Evil" Santa Claus guy. See this is why our Public Schools are a mess. The Liberal Loons have completely destroyed our Public Schools at this point. Getting all worked up over these kinds of silly things while promoting something far more disturbing is typical of them at this point. I have no problem with kids singing Christmas Carols but i do have a big problem with forcing the children to sing songs of praise to the President. Hey that's just how i feel anyway.

 

[maineman]

Yes so forcing children to sing songs of praise to Chairman O is just fine but don't you dare force the poor children to sing about that "Evil" Santa Claus guy. See this is why our Public Schools are a mess. The Liberal Loons have completely destroyed our Public Schools at this point. Getting all worked up over these kinds of silly things while promoting something far more disturbing is typical of them at this point. I have no problem with kids singing Christmas Carols but i do have a big problem with forcing the children to sing songs of praise to the President. Hey that's just how i feel anyway.

and you have repeated that sentiment in several consecutive posts... we get it.

Singing a song about the president is not using tax dollars to promote one religious belief over another.