A Tea Party Wants Mandatory Christmas Carols In Public Schools

[Ravi]

Remember this thread if these assholes try to claim they support the constitution in the future.

 

[NYcarbineer]

what quote?

Posted by carb earlier in the thread:

More from Merry Susan Hyatt, the perpetrator of this initiative:

"These kids, they need it," she said. "They need to see that we believe in Jesus, and He is the Prince of Peace. That's why we are the best country on Earth."

gee, can't imagine why anyone would interpret that as trying to use the public schools to impose a particular religion on anyone...

i don't agree with her statement....but you do realize that christmas, a federal holiday celebrated or observed nationally, is about the birth of jesus christ? and you want to deny children the opportunity to sing traditional christmas carols about a federal holiday....

you want to deny freedom

Still waiting for you to cite cases where the courts have given Christianity preferential treatment based on the fact that Christmas is a federal holiday.

Still waiting...

 

[NYcarbineer]

funny how you dishonestly don't highlight the main words....i guess i will honestly highlight "offer" and "opportunity" for you

its only an opportunity, the school is not required to put anything on and is not required to have it apart of the curiculum, if the wants to, it MAY....

Do you think if a school is required to OFFER English classes that it only has to do so if it wants to?

What is wrong with you, exactly? I'm genuinely curious. To deny that something is being required when it SAYS it's being required...jeezus...

...another one these rightwingers in that classic if-I-don't-admit-it's-true-it-can't-be-true mode.

aren't you claiming that the school is required to have it in curiculum, events, etc....? aren't you also claiming this will require students to participate? if you're only talking about requiring the school to OFFER you the OPPORTUNITY to sing about the federal holiday celebrated nationally, then, yes, that is the requirement, nothing more

The proposition requires to caroling to be offered somewhere somehow, as an elective. That means the schools have to make it happen. Then they have to notify the students 21 days in advance that it's happening. Then the students have to proactively opt out.

Read the damn proposition! Do you see NOW why I asked people to actually read the proposition? ...so you argue it from the perspective of actually knowing what the FUCK is in it!!

 

[NYcarbineer]

what quote?

Posted by carb earlier in the thread:

More from Merry Susan Hyatt, the perpetrator of this initiative:

"These kids, they need it," she said. "They need to see that we believe in Jesus, and He is the Prince of Peace. That's why we are the best country on Earth."

gee, can't imagine why anyone would interpret that as trying to use the public schools to impose a particular religion on anyone...

i don't agree with her statement....but you do realize that christmas, a federal holiday celebrated or observed nationally, is about the birth of jesus christ? and you want to deny children the opportunity to sing traditional christmas carols about a federal holiday....

you want to deny freedom

And you're denying the INTENT of the proposition, as stated, explicitly above, by the perpetrator OF the proposition.

It's amazing....well, the author of the proposition has made it clear she wants to indoctrinate school kids with Christianity, but that doesn't mean she wants to indoctrinate school kids with Christianity...

jeezus

 

[Yurt]

Remember this thread if these assholes try to claim they support the constitution in the future.

explain exactly how anything these so called assholes have said in this thread is unconstitutional?

 

[Yurt]

Posted by carb earlier in the thread:

i don't agree with her statement....but you do realize that christmas, a federal holiday celebrated or observed nationally, is about the birth of jesus christ? and you want to deny children the opportunity to sing traditional christmas carols about a federal holiday....

you want to deny freedom

Still waiting for you to cite cases where the courts have given Christianity preferential treatment based on the fact that Christmas is a federal holiday.

Still waiting...

keep waiting....this is now probably 5+ times i've told you your argument is a strawman, i never claimed that and its a red herring....you apparently think that just because you repeat bullshit enough times it might make a point and you obviously convinced emma....congrats

 

[Yurt]

Posted by carb earlier in the thread:

i don't agree with her statement....but you do realize that christmas, a federal holiday celebrated or observed nationally, is about the birth of jesus christ? and you want to deny children the opportunity to sing traditional christmas carols about a federal holiday....

you want to deny freedom

And you're denying the INTENT of the proposition, as stated, explicitly above, by the perpetrator OF the proposition.

It's amazing....well, the author of the proposition has made it clear she wants to indoctrinate school kids with Christianity, but that doesn't mean she wants to indoctrinate school kids with Christianity...

jeezus

the legal wording quoted for the initiative doesn't mesh with her intent, so i could care less what she says....it doesn't matter what her intent is, it matters what the legislatures intent is....

you obviously have very little knowledge about how a bill passes and when and who's intent matters in "interpreting" legislation....

you also want to deny the freedom for people to have the opportunity to sing about a federal holiday....either take christmas off the federal holiday list or stfu....really....you want to have your cake and eat it to, you want the federal holiday that is celebrated nationally, but you don't want people to have the opportunity to sing christmas carols about the federal holiday....what a joke

 

[NYcarbineer]

they MAY have it as part of the curiculum, they are not required to....that is a plain reading of it....but since you are incapable of actually explaining to us how they are forced to have it as part of the curiculum, when it clearly says they MAY.....we'll just have to settle for your cowardly proclamation that you're right

You cannot read.

Merry Hyatt, a substitute teacher and member of the Redding Tea Party Patriots, is behind the push. The Record Searchlight reports:

The initiative would require schools to provide children the opportunity to listen to or perform Christmas carols, and would subject the schools to litigation if the rule isn't followed.

Schools currently are allowed to offer Christmas music as long as it is used for academic purposes rather than devotional purposes and isn't used to promote a particular religious belief, according to an analysis by the California Legislative Analyst's Office.

Now Yurt, mind reading out the definition of require and litigation.

you idiot, that isn't even what we're talking about

No, that's what YOU"RE not talking about because you've never read the proposition.

 

[NYcarbineer]

i don't agree with her statement....but you do realize that christmas, a federal holiday celebrated or observed nationally, is about the birth of jesus christ? and you want to deny children the opportunity to sing traditional christmas carols about a federal holiday....

you want to deny freedom

Still waiting for you to cite cases where the courts have given Christianity preferential treatment based on the fact that Christmas is a federal holiday.

Still waiting...

keep waiting....this is now probably 5+ times i've told you your argument is a strawman, i never claimed that and its a red herring....you apparently think that just because you repeat bullshit enough times it might make a point and you obviously convinced emma....congrats

For the second time...

...you claimed it right here:

when those religions have a national holiday, then you have a point.

So now tell us what the difference is, Constitutionally.

 

[Yurt]

You cannot read.



Now Yurt, mind reading out the definition of require and litigation.

you idiot, that isn't even what we're talking about

No, that's what YOU"RE not talking about because you've never read the proposition.

more dishonesty....i've read it entirely it solely mentions the traditional aspect of carols and christmas....that is how i knew her intent has nothing to do with the wording of the proposal....you're just a dishonest hack

 

[Yurt]

Still waiting for you to cite cases where the courts have given Christianity preferential treatment based on the fact that Christmas is a federal holiday.

Still waiting...

keep waiting....this is now probably 5+ times i've told you your argument is a strawman, i never claimed that and its a red herring....you apparently think that just because you repeat bullshit enough times it might make a point and you obviously convinced emma....congrats

For the second time...

...you claimed it right here:

when those religions have a national holiday, then you have a point.

So now tell us what the difference is, Constitutionally.

no wonder you're confused....i am not asking for preferential treatment, i am simply saying when they have a federal holiday, then i have no doubt they would be offended and demand the right to have an opportunity to sing about the holiday in a traditional manner....

how in the world you think that because we have a christmas holiday, that this means all other holidays that are not recognized federally or at the state level, should also be celebrated....that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard....like i said, either abolish christmas or stfu about it....it is stupid to whine about how we aren't singing or talking about other so called holidays when this country hasn't recognized them at the federal level or state level....when they do, then you would have a point....when you celebrate fathers day....do you stand up and bitch that mothers aren't celebrated on the same day? do you stand up and cry foul because sister's aren't celebrated? on july fourth do you go around talking about all other countries in the world and their independence? because if you don't, you are a hypocrite

 

[NYcarbineer]

keep waiting....this is now probably 5+ times i've told you your argument is a strawman, i never claimed that and its a red herring....you apparently think that just because you repeat bullshit enough times it might make a point and you obviously convinced emma....congrats

For the second time...

...you claimed it right here:

when those religions have a national holiday, then you have a point.

So now tell us what the difference is, Constitutionally.

no wonder you're confused....i am not asking for preferential treatment, i am simply saying when they have a federal holiday, then i have no doubt they would be offended and demand the right to have an opportunity to sing about the holiday in a traditional manner....

how in the world you think that because we have a christmas holiday, that this means all other holidays that are not recognized federally or at the state level, should also be celebrated....that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard....like i said, either abolish christmas or stfu about it....it is stupid to whine about how we aren't singing or talking about other so called holidays when this country hasn't recognized them at the federal level or state level....when they do, then you would have a point....when you celebrate fathers day....do you stand up and bitch that mothers aren't celebrated on the same day? do you stand up and cry foul because sister's aren't celebrated? on july fourth do you go around talking about all other countries in the world and their independence? because if you don't, you are a hypocrite

Now you are not only avoiding what you said but you're attributing stuff to me I never said.

There are schools in San Francisco that have more Buddhists in them than Christians. What is the rationale for REQUIRING that school to hold events singing Christmas carols?

 

[NYcarbineer]

you idiot, that isn't even what we're talking about

No, that's what YOU"RE not talking about because you've never read the proposition.

more dishonesty....i've read it entirely it solely mentions the traditional aspect of carols and christmas....that is how i knew her intent has nothing to do with the wording of the proposal....you're just a dishonest hack

You claimed we weren't talking about litigation but litigation is part of the proposition. So you either didn't read it, didn't know what you were reading, or were simply denying what is in the proposition.

Let me ask you, if there are no requirements in the bill, how can there be litigation provisions in the bill? How do you sue someone for not doing something that isn't required?

 

[ihopehefails]

not true....that is actually establishing a church you moron....allowing the opportunity to sing about a federal holiday is no where close to the building of a church....

good lord

Except the logic you're using also sets precedent for such.

I'm trying to figure out if singing christmas carols in public schools is actually the same thing as funding a national church with its own religion.

 

[ihopehefails]

Remember this thread if these assholes try to claim they support the constitution in the future.

I'll remember this thread when we get into actually reading what the text says as it was written by the authors of it instead of believing it meaning exist as a concept in your head as in the difference between "to establish" which means "to create" and just passing any law that has a reference to christianity in it.

 

[Yurt]

For the second time...

...you claimed it right here:

when those religions have a national holiday, then you have a point.

So now tell us what the difference is, Constitutionally.

no wonder you're confused....i am not asking for preferential treatment, i am simply saying when they have a federal holiday, then i have no doubt they would be offended and demand the right to have an opportunity to sing about the holiday in a traditional manner....

how in the world you think that because we have a christmas holiday, that this means all other holidays that are not recognized federally or at the state level, should also be celebrated....that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard....like i said, either abolish christmas or stfu about it....it is stupid to whine about how we aren't singing or talking about other so called holidays when this country hasn't recognized them at the federal level or state level....when they do, then you would have a point....when you celebrate fathers day....do you stand up and bitch that mothers aren't celebrated on the same day? do you stand up and cry foul because sister's aren't celebrated? on july fourth do you go around talking about all other countries in the world and their independence? because if you don't, you are a hypocrite

Now you are not only avoiding what you said but you're attributing stuff to me I never said.

There are schools in San Francisco that have more Buddhists in them than Christians. What is the rationale for REQUIRING that school to hold events singing Christmas carols?

you dishonesty is getting tiring...i have avoided nothing and have not attributed things you've never said...

why should the minority who want the opportunity to sing christmas carols, which christmas is a federal holiday, not be allowed the opportunity? its a federal holiday and you want to deny people the opportunity to sing carols about it....traditional christmas carols as laid out in the bill...the rational is simple....its a federal holiday and students who don't want to listen can opt out...no one is forced to hear it, they can even take alternative curiculum....no religion is forced, the only one denying rights is you

 

[Yurt]

No, that's what YOU"RE not talking about because you've never read the proposition.

more dishonesty....i've read it entirely it solely mentions the traditional aspect of carols and christmas....that is how i knew her intent has nothing to do with the wording of the proposal....you're just a dishonest hack

You claimed we weren't talking about litigation but litigation is part of the proposition. So you either didn't read it, didn't know what you were reading, or were simply denying what is in the proposition.

Let me ask you, if there are no requirements in the bill, how can there be litigation provisions in the bill? How do you sue someone for not doing something that isn't required?

its clear you're the one ignoring or avoiding what i've said....i've already acknowledge repeatedly that the requirement exists for the opportunity....you jumped into a conversation and are now claiming i'm wrong when dogbert already admitted he was mistaken....as it wasn't me

its clear you're ignorant as to what people say, either that or its just more of your dishonesty

 

[Ravi]

Damn, you people are stupid.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[you dishonesty is getting tiring...i have avoided nothing and have not attributed things you've never said...

"how in the world you think that because we have a christmas holiday, that this means all other holidays that are not recognized federally or at the state level, should also be celebrated....that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard...."

I never said anything of the sort.

 

[ihopehefails]

So, let me get this straight.

When a school "Provides students with the opportunity" to sing about popular political figures, that's "indoctrination".

But when a school "Provides students with the opportunity" to sing about a popular religious figure, that's "freedom"?

Very interesting point of view right-wingers seem to have.

What exactly does "providing an opportunity" mean, anyway?

Does it mean devoting space at the school and manpower to oversee the children who are singing Christmas Carols?

Because that would be specifically using public funding for a religious purpose.

I can't figure out why most people who attend public schools wants to sing about Christmas and because a very small minority is offended by it has the power to deny them that right to sing whatever song that they want no matter what religious affiliation it is a part of.

And singing about a "popular political leader" is indoctrination because the schools which are funded by those leaders select songs that will make them more popular like umh umh good.