A smarter Trumpless immigration reform is needed

[TNHarley]

Isnt ignoring of laws a big problem we have NOW?

Correct, and not just by illegals or employers either.

No, but we are being specific.
IDC what anyone says. Call it "sound bites" if you want. Incentive is why they come. If you don't cut that out, they wont stop crossing our borders.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Isnt ignoring of laws a big problem we have NOW?

Correct, and not just by illegals or employers either.

No, but we are being specific.
IDC what anyone says. Call it "sound bites" if you want. Incentive is why they come. If you don't cut that out, they wont stop crossing our borders.

For many the incentive is to be with family. For others poverty is more tolerable here than in Mexico.

 

[TNHarley]

Isnt ignoring of laws a big problem we have NOW?

Correct, and not just by illegals or employers either.

No, but we are being specific.
IDC what anyone says. Call it "sound bites" if you want. Incentive is why they come. If you don't cut that out, they wont stop crossing our borders.

For many the incentive is to be with family. For others poverty is more tolerable here than in Mexico.

Not if they are stupid hungry and homeless

 

[Divine Wind]

Isnt ignoring of laws a big problem we have NOW?

Correct, and not just by illegals or employers either.

No, but we are being specific.
IDC what anyone says. Call it "sound bites" if you want. Incentive is why they come. If you don't cut that out, they wont stop crossing our borders.

Agreed. Are we agreed that one of the best ways to stop these incentives is to start arresting employers, renters and others who support or actively encourage illegal immigration?

Of course, this means employers and renters need to have a means to verify a prospective employee or renter's immigration status.

Let's not forget that only about half of illegals are Mexican.

5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S.

 

[TNHarley]

TNHarleys solution to the immigration problem
Check out my OP Divine.Wind

 

[JakeStarkey]

Isnt ignoring of laws a big problem we have NOW?

Correct, and not just by illegals or employers either.

No, but we are being specific.
IDC what anyone says. Call it "sound bites" if you want. Incentive is why they come. If you don't cut that out, they wont stop crossing our borders.

For many the incentive is to be with family. For others poverty is more tolerable here than in Mexico.

Not if they are stupid hungry and homeless

More tolerable here than in Mexico if you are discussing poverty. You did ignore those who have relatives here.

 

[TNHarley]

Isnt ignoring of laws a big problem we have NOW?

Correct, and not just by illegals or employers either.

No, but we are being specific.
IDC what anyone says. Call it "sound bites" if you want. Incentive is why they come. If you don't cut that out, they wont stop crossing our borders.

Agreed. Are we agreed that one of the best ways to stop these incentives is to start arresting employers, renters and others who support or actively encourage illegal immigration?

Of course, this means employers and renters need to have a means to verify a prospective employee or renter's immigration status.

yes

 

[TNHarley]

Isnt ignoring of laws a big problem we have NOW?

Correct, and not just by illegals or employers either.

No, but we are being specific.
IDC what anyone says. Call it "sound bites" if you want. Incentive is why they come. If you don't cut that out, they wont stop crossing our borders.

For many the incentive is to be with family. For others poverty is more tolerable here than in Mexico.

Not if they are stupid hungry and homeless

More tolerable here than in Mexico if you are discussing poverty. You did ignore those who have relatives here.

People have relatives all over the world. It isn't an excuse to break the law.
Morally, you have got me. Solution wise, you don't. Sometimes, solutions are hard. That's life.

 

[Divine Wind]

For many the incentive is to be with family. For others poverty is more tolerable here than in Mexico.

"For many" is a very broad term since "many" come here for jobs and send that money back to their families in Mexico or other countries to the tune of $50B-120B, depending upon source.

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home
Migrants working in the United States sent a staggering $120 billion back to their families last year, it was revealed today.

The amount of money being sent by migrants across the entire world reached $530 billion last year, making it a larger economy than Iran or Argentina, the data from the World Bank showed.

This worldwide figure has tripled in the last ten years and is now three times bigger than the total aid budgets given by countries around the world. It has sparked debate whether this so-called remittance money could be a viable alternative to relying on help from other governments.

In the United States last year, more than $120 billion was sent by workers to families abroad - making it the largest sender of remittances in the world. More than $23 billion went to Mexico, $13.45 billion to China, $10.84 billion to India and $10 billion to the Philippines, among other recipients.

Read more: Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home

Illegal immigrants send home $50 billion annually but cost taxpayers more than $113 billion
Illegal immigrants residing in the U.S. send $50 billion in remittances to their home countries each year, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The World Bank estimates that number is even higher, closer to $120 billion.

To put that figure into context, $50 billion is the same amount as the U.S. government’s annual foreign aid budget, notes the New York Times. It’s the operating budget of a midsize country, or in America’s case, enough to fund North Carolina and Maine for an entire year.

Nearly a quarter of that money is sent to family members in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala. Those three countries collected $11.8 billion, adding 10 percent to each nation’s gross domestic product.

Approximately 126,000 illegal immigrants emigrated from these three nations to the U.S. since last October and federal officials estimate at least 95,500 more will enter next year.

The Central American governments have encouraged the high levels of emigration because it is earning their economy billions of dollars! For every illegal alien that sneaks into the U.S. and remits money back home, that grand total remittance number only grows. But what if the millions of U.S. jobs now filled by illegal aliens were done by American workers earning better wages, paying more in taxes and spending their money in their communities rather than sending it abroad?

Americans are the ones forced to pick up the $113 billion tab for taking care of the country’s 12 million illegal immigrants. Is it the responsibility of taxpaying citizens to cover the cost of illegal immigration and the government’s aid to these countries while illegal workers continue to send their money overseas to send $50 billion overseas?

 

[TNHarley]

For many the incentive is to be with family. For others poverty is more tolerable here than in Mexico.

"For many" is a very broad term since "many" come here for jobs and send that money back to their families in Mexico or other countries to the tune of $50B-120B, depending upon source.

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home
Migrants working in the United States sent a staggering $120 billion back to their families last year, it was revealed today.

The amount of money being sent by migrants across the entire world reached $530 billion last year, making it a larger economy than Iran or Argentina, the data from the World Bank showed.

This worldwide figure has tripled in the last ten years and is now three times bigger than the total aid budgets given by countries around the world. It has sparked debate whether this so-called remittance money could be a viable alternative to relying on help from other governments.

In the United States last year, more than $120 billion was sent by workers to families abroad - making it the largest sender of remittances in the world. More than $23 billion went to Mexico, $13.45 billion to China, $10.84 billion to India and $10 billion to the Philippines, among other recipients.

Read more: Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home

Illegal immigrants send home $50 billion annually but cost taxpayers more than $113 billion
Illegal immigrants residing in the U.S. send $50 billion in remittances to their home countries each year, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The World Bank estimates that number is even higher, closer to $120 billion.

To put that figure into context, $50 billion is the same amount as the U.S. government’s annual foreign aid budget, notes the New York Times. It’s the operating budget of a midsize country, or in America’s case, enough to fund North Carolina and Maine for an entire year.

Nearly a quarter of that money is sent to family members in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala. Those three countries collected $11.8 billion, adding 10 percent to each nation’s gross domestic product.

Approximately 126,000 illegal immigrants emigrated from these three nations to the U.S. since last October and federal officials estimate at least 95,500 more will enter next year.

The Central American governments have encouraged the high levels of emigration because it is earning their economy billions of dollars! For every illegal alien that sneaks into the U.S. and remits money back home, that grand total remittance number only grows. But what if the millions of U.S. jobs now filled by illegal aliens were done by American workers earning better wages, paying more in taxes and spending their money in their communities rather than sending it abroad?

Americans are the ones forced to pick up the $113 billion tab for taking care of the country’s 12 million illegal immigrants. Is it the responsibility of taxpaying citizens to cover the cost of illegal immigration and the government’s aid to these countries while illegal workers continue to send their money overseas to send $50 billion overseas?

I think it would be worth discussion, to figure out a system to tax that, if they are illegal. Maybe show a DL at the western union? idk haven't thought about it.. but that seems to be a major problem..

 

[Divine Wind]

More tolerable here than in Mexico if you are discussing poverty. You did ignore those who have relatives here.

I travel Mexico quite often and have done so for over a decade. Not border towns, but deep Mexico. The economy is booming. I've watched a lot of factories, mostly automobile factories (Nissan, GM, Mercedes, etc) spring up over the past several years.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/print_mx.html
Mexico's $2.2 trillion economy has become increasingly oriented toward manufacturing in the 22 years since the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) entered into force. Per capita income is roughly one-third that of the US; income distribution remains highly unequal.

Mexico has become the US' second-largest export market and third-largest source of imports. In 2014, two-way trade in goods and services exceeded $590 billion. Mexico has free trade agreements with 46 countries, putting more than 90% of trade under free trade agreements. In 2012, Mexico formally joined the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations and formed the Pacific Alliance with Peru, Colombia, and Chile.

Mexico's current government, led by President Enrique PENA NIETO, emphasized economic reforms during its first two years in office, passing and implementing sweeping education, energy, financial, fiscal, and telecommunications reform legislation, among others, with the long-term aim to improve competitiveness and economic growth across the Mexican economy. Mexico began holding public auctions of exploration and development rights to select oil and gas resources in 2015 as a part of reforms that allow for private investment in the oil, gas, and electricity sectors. The second and third auctions demonstrated the capacity for the Mexican Government to adapt and improve the terms of the contracts to garner sufficient interest from investors amid low oil prices.

Although the economy experienced stronger growth in 2014-15 as a result of increased investment and stronger demand for Mexican exports, growth is predicted to remain below potential given falling oil production, weak oil prices, structural issues such as low productivity, high inequality, a large informal sector employing over half of the workforce, weak rule of law, and corruption. Over the medium-term, the economy is vulnerable to global economic pressures, such as lower external demand, rising interest rates, and low oil prices - approximately 20% of government revenue comes from the state-owned oil company, PEMEX. The increasing integration of supply chains, development of energy sectors, and government-to-government focus on trade facilitation will continue to make the North American region increasingly competitive and contribute to Mexican economic development and strength.



P*law*lotic » Blog's archive » 20th century Mexico was a huge economic growth success, yet why were their two bad decades so very, very bad?

 

[Divine Wind]

I think it would be worth discussion, to figure out a system to tax that, if they are illegal. Maybe show a DL at the western union? idk haven't thought about it.. but that seems to be a major problem..

If they are already being taxed, then I don't advocate a further tax.....unless we add a tax to anyone sending money outside the US such as Romney, corporations, etc.

If they are not paying taxes (ie, cash and carry workers), then yes, they should pay a tax on income being exported.

 

[TNHarley]

I think it would be worth discussion, to figure out a system to tax that, if they are illegal. Maybe show a DL at the western union? idk haven't thought about it.. but that seems to be a major problem..

If they are already being taxed, then I don't advocate a further tax.....unless we add a tax to anyone sending money outside the US such as Romney, corporations, etc.

If they are not paying taxes (ie, cash and carry workers), then yes, they should pay a tax on income being exported.

If they are already being taxed, someone should be going to jail lol

 

[charwin95]

Translation: A lot of Americans are stupid as fuck.

Disagreed. I think a lot of Americans are Christian. Still, it's the job of our government to protect the best interests of "We, the People", not act as the World Police or the World's largest Charity. Look at the problem Merkel is encountering due to her policies. We need immigration reform and part of that reform is cracking the very hard nut of what to do with 11 million illegals. Sound bites and platitudes won't fix it.

That said, the refugee issue is a completely different issue no matter how much the Democrats want to conflate them.

Atheists and other religious people can be stupid as well.
I agree with the rest.
But I know what I want to do with the rest. Cut them off. Continue doing incentive will just invite more.
There is a PEW poll (I think) that said 70% or so of illegals don't care about paths to citizenship, they want to just be able to stay. It was a year or so ago..

Knowing you as a racist with hatred is really very hard for you to understand all these issues. That is why nothing make sense to you.
I understand that you are tough marine keyboard guy but calm down put that bong down.
All I mean ALL illegals are scared from deportation even when they eating or sleeping. And the the only to way that can end this nightmare is legal citizenships. Your 70% is not true.
Most Americans support amnesty.

PRINCETON, N.J. -- Two in three U.S. adults favor a plan to allow immigrants who are living illegally in the U.S. to remain in the country and become citizens if they meet certain requirements over time. Far fewer support allowing those immigrants to remain in the U.S. to work for a limited period of time (14%), or to deport all of these immigrants back to their home countries (19%). U.S. adults' views have been largely stable over the past decade.

Fuck you asshole. Just because I care about Americans doesn't make me a racist. Ignorant coward blowhards like yourself are why we are always losing. You are a bunch of pussies.
Incentive goes beyond welfare. How fucking ignorant are you?
Why do you anti American globalist assholes always put Illegals in the same category with Americans?

I care about Americans more than you TNHarley. Aside from displaying your Rambo keyboard hatred doesn't change anything that you are a racist asshole. So tell me what is your credibility when your opinion is based on hatred? Set that aside your hatred then you might understand what I'm talking about. There is a solution to illegal immigrants that are already but you just refused to admit it because of your hatred. Read my post again how many Americans support legal immigration. You are in the lowest percentage.
Why do you hate Americans?
Your trump is even confused and cannot control his diarrhea. I will deport 11 to 20 millions illegals.............. No I will not deport.............. Yes I will deport.................... No I will deport. Depending who is in front of him. Fuck me.

Its humorous your arrogant ass talks about "Rambo keyboard"s then proceed to tell me what I am. Like you have a fucking clue. Ignorant asshole.
Amnesty is NOT a solution. I have provided HISTORICAL EVIDENCE. You have the opinions of an ignorant asshole. Which one do you think I am going to pay attention to?

You are in the low percentage dude. You have offer no solution to illegals except your Rambo attitude. You are clueless.
Let me see. what is your solution?

 

[TNHarley]

Atheists and other religious people can be stupid as well.
I agree with the rest.
But I know what I want to do with the rest. Cut them off. Continue doing incentive will just invite more.
There is a PEW poll (I think) that said 70% or so of illegals don't care about paths to citizenship, they want to just be able to stay. It was a year or so ago..

Knowing you as a racist with hatred is really very hard for you to understand all these issues. That is why nothing make sense to you.
I understand that you are tough marine keyboard guy but calm down put that bong down.
All I mean ALL illegals are scared from deportation even when they eating or sleeping. And the the only to way that can end this nightmare is legal citizenships. Your 70% is not true.
Most Americans support amnesty.

PRINCETON, N.J. -- Two in three U.S. adults favor a plan to allow immigrants who are living illegally in the U.S. to remain in the country and become citizens if they meet certain requirements over time. Far fewer support allowing those immigrants to remain in the U.S. to work for a limited period of time (14%), or to deport all of these immigrants back to their home countries (19%). U.S. adults' views have been largely stable over the past decade.

Fuck you asshole. Just because I care about Americans doesn't make me a racist. Ignorant coward blowhards like yourself are why we are always losing. You are a bunch of pussies.
Incentive goes beyond welfare. How fucking ignorant are you?
Why do you anti American globalist assholes always put Illegals in the same category with Americans?

I care about Americans more than you TNHarley. Aside from displaying your Rambo keyboard hatred doesn't change anything that you are a racist asshole. So tell me what is your credibility when your opinion is based on hatred? Set that aside your hatred then you might understand what I'm talking about. There is a solution to illegal immigrants that are already but you just refused to admit it because of your hatred. Read my post again how many Americans support legal immigration. You are in the lowest percentage.
Why do you hate Americans?
Your trump is even confused and cannot control his diarrhea. I will deport 11 to 20 millions illegals.............. No I will not deport.............. Yes I will deport.................... No I will deport. Depending who is in front of him. Fuck me.

Its humorous your arrogant ass talks about "Rambo keyboard"s then proceed to tell me what I am. Like you have a fucking clue. Ignorant asshole.
Amnesty is NOT a solution. I have provided HISTORICAL EVIDENCE. You have the opinions of an ignorant asshole. Which one do you think I am going to pay attention to?

You are in the low percentage dude. You have offer no solution to illegals except your Rambo attitude. You are clueless.
Let me see. what is your solution?

I posted a link to a thread I made. Its a few posts up. Check it out.

 

[Divine Wind]

TNHarleys solution to the immigration problem
Check out my OP Divine.Wind

Thanks.

 

[JakeStarkey]

For many the incentive is to be with family. For others poverty is more tolerable here than in Mexico.

"For many" is a very broad term since "many" come here for jobs and send that money back to their families in Mexico or other countries to the tune of $50B-120B, depending upon source.

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home
Migrants working in the United States sent a staggering $120 billion back to their families last year, it was revealed today.

The amount of money being sent by migrants across the entire world reached $530 billion last year, making it a larger economy than Iran or Argentina, the data from the World Bank showed.

This worldwide figure has tripled in the last ten years and is now three times bigger than the total aid budgets given by countries around the world. It has sparked debate whether this so-called remittance money could be a viable alternative to relying on help from other governments.

In the United States last year, more than $120 billion was sent by workers to families abroad - making it the largest sender of remittances in the world. More than $23 billion went to Mexico, $13.45 billion to China, $10.84 billion to India and $10 billion to the Philippines, among other recipients.

Read more: Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home

Illegal immigrants send home $50 billion annually but cost taxpayers more than $113 billion
Illegal immigrants residing in the U.S. send $50 billion in remittances to their home countries each year, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The World Bank estimates that number is even higher, closer to $120 billion.

To put that figure into context, $50 billion is the same amount as the U.S. government’s annual foreign aid budget, notes the New York Times. It’s the operating budget of a midsize country, or in America’s case, enough to fund North Carolina and Maine for an entire year.

Nearly a quarter of that money is sent to family members in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala. Those three countries collected $11.8 billion, adding 10 percent to each nation’s gross domestic product.

Approximately 126,000 illegal immigrants emigrated from these three nations to the U.S. since last October and federal officials estimate at least 95,500 more will enter next year.

The Central American governments have encouraged the high levels of emigration because it is earning their economy billions of dollars! For every illegal alien that sneaks into the U.S. and remits money back home, that grand total remittance number only grows. But what if the millions of U.S. jobs now filled by illegal aliens were done by American workers earning better wages, paying more in taxes and spending their money in their communities rather than sending it abroad?

Americans are the ones forced to pick up the $113 billion tab for taking care of the country’s 12 million illegal immigrants. Is it the responsibility of taxpaying citizens to cover the cost of illegal immigration and the government’s aid to these countries while illegal workers continue to send their money overseas to send $50 billion overseas?

I think it would be worth discussion, to figure out a system to tax that, if they are illegal. Maybe show a DL at the western union? idk haven't thought about it.. but that seems to be a major problem..

That would be big government progressivism to collect a surcharge at WU, but I do like the idea. Have a rebate tied to the filing of an income tax return.

 

[TNHarley]

For many the incentive is to be with family. For others poverty is more tolerable here than in Mexico.

"For many" is a very broad term since "many" come here for jobs and send that money back to their families in Mexico or other countries to the tune of $50B-120B, depending upon source.

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home
Migrants working in the United States sent a staggering $120 billion back to their families last year, it was revealed today.

The amount of money being sent by migrants across the entire world reached $530 billion last year, making it a larger economy than Iran or Argentina, the data from the World Bank showed.

This worldwide figure has tripled in the last ten years and is now three times bigger than the total aid budgets given by countries around the world. It has sparked debate whether this so-called remittance money could be a viable alternative to relying on help from other governments.

In the United States last year, more than $120 billion was sent by workers to families abroad - making it the largest sender of remittances in the world. More than $23 billion went to Mexico, $13.45 billion to China, $10.84 billion to India and $10 billion to the Philippines, among other recipients.

Read more: Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home

Illegal immigrants send home $50 billion annually but cost taxpayers more than $113 billion
Illegal immigrants residing in the U.S. send $50 billion in remittances to their home countries each year, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The World Bank estimates that number is even higher, closer to $120 billion.

To put that figure into context, $50 billion is the same amount as the U.S. government’s annual foreign aid budget, notes the New York Times. It’s the operating budget of a midsize country, or in America’s case, enough to fund North Carolina and Maine for an entire year.

Nearly a quarter of that money is sent to family members in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala. Those three countries collected $11.8 billion, adding 10 percent to each nation’s gross domestic product.

Approximately 126,000 illegal immigrants emigrated from these three nations to the U.S. since last October and federal officials estimate at least 95,500 more will enter next year.

The Central American governments have encouraged the high levels of emigration because it is earning their economy billions of dollars! For every illegal alien that sneaks into the U.S. and remits money back home, that grand total remittance number only grows. But what if the millions of U.S. jobs now filled by illegal aliens were done by American workers earning better wages, paying more in taxes and spending their money in their communities rather than sending it abroad?

Americans are the ones forced to pick up the $113 billion tab for taking care of the country’s 12 million illegal immigrants. Is it the responsibility of taxpaying citizens to cover the cost of illegal immigration and the government’s aid to these countries while illegal workers continue to send their money overseas to send $50 billion overseas?

I think it would be worth discussion, to figure out a system to tax that, if they are illegal. Maybe show a DL at the western union? idk haven't thought about it.. but that seems to be a major problem..

That would be big government progressivism to collect a surcharge at WU, but I do like the idea. Have a rebate tied to the filing of an income tax return.

Big government for illegals is an oxymoron.

 

[Divine Wind]

You are in the low percentage dude. You have offer no solution to illegals except your Rambo attitude. You are clueless.
Let me see. what is your solution?

What do you mean, specifically, about "Rambo attitude"?

The link TNHarley provided on another thread laid out his thoughts on the matter. Although I don't agree with every detail, I do agree with the general ideas he's presented.

 

[TNHarley]

You are in the low percentage dude. You have offer no solution to illegals except your Rambo attitude. You are clueless.
Let me see. what is your solution?

What do you mean, specifically, about "Rambo attitude"?

The link TNHarley provided on another thread laid out his thoughts on the matter. Although I don't agree with every detail, I do agree with the general ideas he's presented.

you never get it 100%. But I am always down to discuss. As long as it doesn't stray from the point : end incentive.