A serious question to Christians about the Mormon faith

[there4eyeM]

"Even Muslims believe Jesus is Christ, but no one calls the(m) Christians. Muslims are twice as Christian as Mormons, by doctrine."

This is not correct in the sense the Christ is the Greek for messiah, and that is savior.
Islam does not accept Jesus as savior.

 

[Ariux]

"Even Muslims believe Jesus is Christ, but no one calls the(m) Christians. Muslims are twice as Christian as Mormons, by doctrine."

This is not correct in the sense the Christ is the Greek for messiah, and that is savior.
Islam does not accept Jesus as savior.

Christ is Greek for Anointed, not Messiah (WTF is that?).

Mormons believe in salvation, i.e. eternal life, apart from Jesus, the brother of Satan. Jesus mainly just decides what level of heaven you get to go to, primarily based upon your works So, scratch that salvation through Jesus thing. Mormons don't even believe in God, in the first place.

Islam may not accept Jesus as savior, but at least they believe in God and they don't believe Jesus is Satan's brother.

 

[Avatar4321]

Only to a degree.

That's news to me considering this is the entire purpose of the Book of Mormon:

From the LDS statement of faith: "3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel." Christians believe "saved by faith." Christianity teaches that the law condemns, not saves.

And, of course, there's that thing about Mormons not believing in God. They use the word God and other Christian terms, but with other meanings.

Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites—Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel; and also to Jew and Gentile—Written by way of commandment, and also by the spirit of prophecy and of revelation—Written and sealed up, and hid up unto the Lord, that they might not be destroyed—To come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof—Sealed by the hand of Moroni, and hid up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile—The interpretation thereof by the gift of God.

An abridgment taken from the Book of Ether also, which is a record of the people of Jared, who were scattered at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people, when they were building a tower to get to heaven—Which is to show unto the remnant of the house of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever—And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations—And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.

Translated by Joseph Smith, Jun.

Even Muslims believe Jesus is Christ, but no one calls the Christians. Muslims are twice as Christian as Mormons, by doctrine.

so Muslims teach that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the living Messiah, who suffered and atoned for the sins of the world? News to me there too.

 

[Avatar4321]

"Even Muslims believe Jesus is Christ, but no one calls the(m) Christians. Muslims are twice as Christian as Mormons, by doctrine."

This is not correct in the sense the Christ is the Greek for messiah, and that is savior.
Islam does not accept Jesus as savior.

Christ is Greek for Anointed, not Messiah (WTF is that?).

Mormons believe in salvation, i.e. eternal life, apart from Jesus, the brother of Satan. Jesus mainly just decides what level of heaven you get to go to, primarily based upon your works So, scratch that salvation through Jesus thing. Mormons don't even believe in God, in the first place.

Islam may not accept Jesus as savior, but at least they believe in God and they don't believe Jesus is Satan's brother.

The messiah, it's a hebrew term for the anointed one. You know, Hebrew, the language the Bible was written in. Spoken by the Jews. Jesus being their Savior. We recieved a knowledge of our Savior from their testimonies.

And no. Salvation comes only through Jesus Christ:

Helaman 5:9

9 O remember, remember, my sons, the words which king Benjamin spake unto his people; yea, remember that there is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, who shall come; yea, remember that he cometh to redeem the world.


2 Nephi 25:20

20 And now, my brethren, I have spoken plainly that ye cannot err. And as the Lord God liveth that brought Israel up out of the land of Egypt, and gave unto Moses power that he should heal the nations after they had been bitten by the poisonous serpents, if they would cast their eyes unto the serpent which he did raise up before them, and also gave him power that he should smite the rock and the water should come forth; yea, behold I say unto you, that as these things are true, and as the Lord God liveth, there is none other name given under heaven save it be this Jesus Christ, of which I have spoken, whereby man can be saved.


Helaman 13:6

6 Yea, heavy destruction awaiteth this people, and it surely cometh unto this people, and nothing can save this people save it be repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ, who surely shall come into the world, and shall suffer many things and shall be slain for his people

 

[JoeB131]

Do you consider Mormons to be Christians? How do you define a Christian.

Im asking because, I recently talked with a friend of mine, who is Mormon about his faith and while he calls himself a Christian, he didnt fit MY personal definition of a Christian, which is someone who believes Christ is our lord and savior. I would say, to me, he is as Christian as Christians are Jewish.

Please note, Im honestly curious and not looking for a flame fest of the Mormon faith.

I think the problem here is that we get to the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

Some protestants don't consider Catholics to be "Christians", even though Catholicism predates them.

So as massively critical as I am of Mormon beliefs, history, conduct and general craziness, I have no problem with them calling themselves "Christians".

They have a different interpreation of scriptures than you do (and they made up a few of their own.)

Jesus, I'm sticking up for Mormons? Whatever is the world coming to.

 

[JoeB131]

Do you consider Mormons to be Christians? How do you define a Christian.

Im asking because, I recently talked with a friend of mine, who is Mormon about his faith and while he calls himself a Christian, he didnt fit MY personal definition of a Christian, which is someone who believes Christ is our lord and savior. I would say, to me, he is as Christian as Christians are Jewish.

Please note, Im honestly curious and not looking for a flame fest of the Mormon faith.

Mormons fail to meet the basic tenant of Christianity. That Jesus and God are one and the same. In fact the Mormons are a little like muslims in recognizing Jesus as a prophet but not the grand cahuna.

True, the Mormons believe in the resurrection but there is no distinction there between the resurrection of Jesus and the resurrection that all (of the mormon faith) shall receive.

Both you and Jesus get your own planet.

Actually, having been brought up Catholic, I always thought that was kind of nuts... how could Jesus and God be one and the same.

How could Jesus be his own father?

The nuns tried to explain this, but they ended up usually looking like mean-spirited, frustrated lesbians flustered by a simple child's logical question. And then the wooden rulers came out.

 

[Avatar4321]

Do you consider Mormons to be Christians? How do you define a Christian.

Im asking because, I recently talked with a friend of mine, who is Mormon about his faith and while he calls himself a Christian, he didnt fit MY personal definition of a Christian, which is someone who believes Christ is our lord and savior. I would say, to me, he is as Christian as Christians are Jewish.

Please note, Im honestly curious and not looking for a flame fest of the Mormon faith.

I think the problem here is that we get to the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

Some protestants don't consider Catholics to be "Christians", even though Catholicism predates them.

So as massively critical as I am of Mormon beliefs, history, conduct and general craziness, I have no problem with them calling themselves "Christians".

They have a different interpreation of scriptures than you do (and they made up a few of their own.)

Jesus, I'm sticking up for Mormons? Whatever is the world coming to.

it's only a matter of time till you are baptized.

 

[Ariux]

The messiah, it's a hebrew term for the anointed one. You know, Hebrew, the language the Bible was written in. Spoken by the Jews. Jesus being their Savior. We recieved a knowledge of our Savior from their testimonies.

Why would a Christian use a Hebrew term instead of a Christian term? (Obviously, because that Christian isn't Christian.)

And no. Salvation comes only through Jesus Christ:

Helaman 5:9

9 O remember, remember, my sons, the words which king Benjamin spake unto his people; yea, remember that there is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, who shall come; yea, remember that he cometh to redeem the world.

King Benjamin? Remember the word words of king Benjamin?

In Mormonism, everyone is saved regardless of Jesus. So, save your bullshit for the shitheads. The question is, if everyone is saved without Jesus, then how come that their book of bullshit says salvation only through Jesus? In Mormonism, there is no Hell. In Mormonism, there are different levels of heaven and they only use the word "salvation" in regards to the highest level of heaven. "Happy, Happier, and "Happiest."

Also, that verse doesn't represent Mormon doctrine that works is a means to improve your standing in the afterlife.

Mormons don't even believe in God.

 

[Ariux]

Do you consider Mormons to be Christians? How do you define a Christian.

Im asking because, I recently talked with a friend of mine, who is Mormon about his faith and while he calls himself a Christian, he didnt fit MY personal definition of a Christian, which is someone who believes Christ is our lord and savior. I would say, to me, he is as Christian as Christians are Jewish.

Please note, Im honestly curious and not looking for a flame fest of the Mormon faith.

I think the problem here is that we get to the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

No, wrong, sorry. Try again. The definition of a Scotsman is someone from Scotsmanland, regardless of what he likes to eat. But, if someone doesn't meet your definition of Christian, that someone is rightfully viewed as not a Christian.

Some protestants don't consider Catholics to be "Christians", even though Catholicism predates them.

Catholics don't predate John the Baptist, unless John's mother was Elizabeth the Catholic.

All the early Christians were Baptists, as proven by their lack of tradition.

Your argument is nonsense because the definition of Christian doesn't include "predating."

So as massively critical as I am of Mormon beliefs, history, conduct and general craziness, I have no problem with them calling themselves "Christians".

Mormons don't believe in God or that Jesus is needed to go to Heaven.

They have a different interpreation of scriptures than you do (and they made up a few of their own.)

Mormons don't have an honest interpretation of scripture because their interpretation is subject to the Book of Mormon and other alleged extra-biblical revelation. Even the Catholic Church makes no claim to having doctrine based on extra-biblical revelation.

Jesus, I'm sticking up for Mormons? Whatever is the world coming to.

If you've ever stuck up for God Damned Jews, you have already hit rock-bottom. May God have mercy on your soul.

 

[JoeB131]

Do you consider Mormons to be Christians? How do you define a Christian.

Im asking because, I recently talked with a friend of mine, who is Mormon about his faith and while he calls himself a Christian, he didnt fit MY personal definition of a Christian, which is someone who believes Christ is our lord and savior. I would say, to me, he is as Christian as Christians are Jewish.

Please note, Im honestly curious and not looking for a flame fest of the Mormon faith.

I think the problem here is that we get to the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

Some protestants don't consider Catholics to be "Christians", even though Catholicism predates them.

So as massively critical as I am of Mormon beliefs, history, conduct and general craziness, I have no problem with them calling themselves "Christians".

They have a different interpreation of scriptures than you do (and they made up a few of their own.)

Jesus, I'm sticking up for Mormons? Whatever is the world coming to.

it's only a matter of time till you are baptized.

Only a matter of time before they realize your cult's a fraud.

 

[JoeB131]

Do you consider Mormons to be Christians? How do you define a Christian.

Im asking because, I recently talked with a friend of mine, who is Mormon about his faith and while he calls himself a Christian, he didnt fit MY personal definition of a Christian, which is someone who believes Christ is our lord and savior. I would say, to me, he is as Christian as Christians are Jewish.

Please note, Im honestly curious and not looking for a flame fest of the Mormon faith.

I think the problem here is that we get to the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

No, wrong, sorry. Try again. The definition of a Scotsman is someone from Scotsmanland, regardless of what he likes to eat. But, if someone doesn't meet your definition of Christian, that someone is rightfully viewed as not a Christian.



Catholics don't predate John the Baptist, unless John's mother was Elizabeth the Catholic.

All the early Christians were Baptists, as proven by their lack of tradition.

Your argument is nonsense because the definition of Christian doesn't include "predating."



Mormons don't believe in God or that Jesus is needed to go to Heaven.

They have a different interpreation of scriptures than you do (and they made up a few of their own.)

Mormons don't have an honest interpretation of scripture because their interpretation is subject to the Book of Mormon and other alleged extra-biblical revelation. Even the Catholic Church makes no claim to having doctrine based on extra-biblical revelation.

Jesus, I'm sticking up for Mormons? Whatever is the world coming to.

If you've ever stuck up for God Damned Jews, you have already hit rock-bottom. May God have mercy on your soul.

Can someone just ban this troll already?

 

[Ariux]

Can someone just ban this troll already?

Another option is for you to stop posting nonsense and lies. That way, you won't have to cry when your posts get shredded.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why would a Christian use a Hebrew term instead of a Christian term? (Obviously, because that Christian isn't Christian.)

I dont know. Because Christianity is a Hebrew religion and we like going to the source of our faith

King Benjamin? Remember the word words of king Benjamin?

In Mormonism, everyone is saved regardless of Jesus. So, save your bullshit for the shitheads. The question is, if everyone is saved without Jesus, then how come that their book of bullshit says salvation only through Jesus? In Mormonism, there is no Hell. In Mormonism, there are different levels of heaven and they only use the word "salvation" in regards to the highest level of heaven. "Happy, Happier, and "Happiest."

Also, that verse doesn't represent Mormon doctrine that works is a means to improve your standing in the afterlife.

Mormons don't even believe in God.

Yes remember King Benjamins words. Words that teach the necessity of Christ and His atoning sacrifice. Found in the Book of Mormon. The book containing the central teachings on Mormonism. But of course the Book of Mormon doesnt accurate represent Mormon beliefs. That's just silly.

Read it sometime.

 

[Ariux]

Why would a Christian use a Hebrew term instead of a Christian term? (Obviously, because that Christian isn't Christian.)

I dont know. Because Christianity is a Hebrew religion and we like going to the source of our faith

Christianity is a Greek religion.

Yes remember King Benjamins words. Words that teach the necessity of Christ and His atoning sacrifice. Found in the Book of Mormon. The book containing the central teachings on Mormonism. But of course the Book of Mormon doesnt accurate represent Mormon beliefs. That's just silly.

Thinking there was a King Bengamin of Zarahemlas (a great empire in America) is beyond silly, it's fucktarded.

And, Mormons aren't Christian. They don't you need Jesus to avoid Hell and they don't believe in God. I've already explained this. All you're doing is showing that you're too stupid to even recognize explanations, let alone respond to them.

 

[there4eyeM]

"Even Muslims believe Jesus is Christ, but no one calls the(m) Christians. Muslims are twice as Christian as Mormons, by doctrine."

This is not correct in the sense the Christ is the Greek for messiah, and that is savior.
Islam does not accept Jesus as savior.

Yes, literally it translates as anointed, but it means anointed as king, thus messiah in the context, thus savior and, of course, Jesus is not recognized as such in Islam.

Christianity is most certainly not a 'Greek' religion. Wherever that impression came from is unimaginable.

It is amazing that so many people claim to be Christian and want to decide who is and who isn't Christian, but few are willing to follow what Jesus said to do. Ask, knock, search on your own. Merely referring to doctrines and formulas is the type of thing he criticized in the Pharisees. You only have what is inside you anyway, so looking 'outside' is the surest way to frustration, error and self deception.

 

[Ariux]

Christianity is most certainly not a 'Greek' religion. Wherever that impression came from is unimaginable.

Here's a hint, the New Testament was written in Greek. Do you think Christianity is the Jewish religion? If so, then what's the religion of those God Damned Jews who say they're Jews?

It is amazing that so many people claim to be Christian and want to decide who is and who isn't Christian, but few are willing to follow what Jesus said to do. Ask, knock, search on your own. Merely referring to doctrines and formulas is the type of thing he criticized in the Pharisees. You only have what is inside you anyway, so looking 'outside' is the surest way to frustration, error and self deception.

You've got shit for brains (if I denied that, I'd be breaking the 9th Commandment). Jesus objected to the hypocrisy and the man-made rules of the Pharisees. Jesus didn't object to them referring to true doctrines and formulas. Besides, Mormons are Atheists. What they call "God" is just another human to them, one that didn't create the universe, one that isn't sinless. You're a total fucktard if you think I shouldn't judge an Atheist as a non-Christian.

 

[there4eyeM]

The New Testament and in fact the entire Bible is written in many languages. Much of the earliest writings now present in the New Testament were written in what was one of the most common written languages of the time, Greek. How that makes the religion Greek in one's mind is obscure.

The contributions of there4eyeM have not defended nor attacked the Mormons. They have not attacked nor defended any religion, because this poster is not part of any religion.

The Pharisees were criticized because they encouraged others to worship dead, limited concepts. Jesus represents life and the eternal, in many ways similar to 'Buddha'.

Concepts of race that categorize sections of the population are outmoded. Science, thinking and reason have banished them from sane debate. There is one race, the human race.

A human being is responsible for and to his/her self. Attempts to abrogate that responsibility are the source of most of our social, political and mental problems.
Most religions do not try to encourage consciousness of this principle.
If the Mormons are wrong, they are not more wrong than the other, similar institutions.
True Christians would be following Christ and no one else. Jesus or 'Buddha' would not be a dictator, rapist, murderer, economic exploitater, misogynist or racist. Those things are for limited, strangled beings of feeble vision.

 

[editec]

No, I do not think Mormonism is really Christianity.

But then, I don't think most Christians are very christian, either, so what does it matter if the kids in Utah are likewise not doing it right?

 

[Ariux]

The New Testament and in fact the entire Bible is written in many languages. Much of the earliest writings now present in the New Testament were written in what was one of the most common written languages of the time, Greek. How that makes the religion Greek in one's mind is obscure.

How using Greek makes Christianity a Hebrew religion is even more of a mystery.

The Pharisees were criticized because they encouraged others to worship dead, limited concepts. Jesus represents life and the eternal, in many ways similar to 'Buddha'.

I'm not sure of what you're saying, but it looks like shit.

Concepts of race that categorize sections of the population are outmoded. Science, thinking and reason have banished them from sane debate. There is one race, the human race.

More liberal shit.

 

[there4eyeM]

And in other news, the Westport Junior baseball league had its championship playoff last night.