A revolt is growing as more people refuse to pay back student loans

[kaz]

We need to properly fund higher education in this country. Its what is best for the future.

Higher education should not be funded at all.
The main reason for the skyrocketing cost of tuition IS federal money pouring into the public colleges.
If so much money was not available for loans, aid and frills, the schools would have an incentive to keep down the cost of their respective education.
Get government OUT of the system and the prices will become competitive,.

QFT. LOL, exact point I just made before reading you already nailed it.

 

[kaz]

For who? The rich? How would anyone be able to have the opportunity for the American dream? Easily accessible student loans are part of the problem but the other is cutting government spending on higher education.

You realize there are still banks, no? The point is government subsidized loans are being spent like monopoly money driving up the cost of college and enabling students to spend tens of thousands or more on useless degrees they don't realize they can't pay back until the bills for what turns out to be real money come in.

By not doing that, students will drive colleges to keep costs in check just like airline tickets and personal computers. They will become value shoppers. They will also demand more skills to pay back the loans. And then they will borrow from actual banks and negotiate their own terms. In the end, they will end up with a better economic education as well as less debt. I'm from the government, I'm here to help. A line only believed by fools and liberals. There is a heavy overlap

 

[kaz]

What job can an 18 year old work at that would be able to pay his tuition at the same time as going to school? None. Tuition is at least $18k/yr. To pay that off and other living expenses, the person would have to work a 40K with a high school degree. That doesn't exist in this world for young people.

Also, these students were told this degree would get them a job in their field. They manipulated the job numbers to say "Hey, you will get a job when you graduate!" Which weren't true. These schools broke the law, that's why they are trying to get their loan forgiven.

I didn't say they have to work for all the money. I ended up with $4K in debt. I worked odd jobs for $10 an hour in the eighties doing painting, yard work, etc. I also worked nights as a network operator.

I had to be there 4 hours a night. I didn't have to work unless the network is down, they were fine with me doing homework. Summer, winter, spring break I worked full time plus.

I worked at working at it. That's what it takes.

Except college costs have risen 360% since 1980.

And guess what workers wages done in that time:

That's right, they have stagnated.

This is an economic crisis for the US. If people are paying $300-700/month to the federal government, that money isn't going to a mortgage, a car payment, or to any other economically stimulating activity.

And if people want to save that money, guess what? That 401K isn't going to be worth anything if the companies are not making any money thus have poor stock performance. Those companies would move operations to countries who have disposable incomes. That means work dries up here in the US, thus perpetuating the problem. Businesses don't care that people are "being responsible" by paying back the federal government, they want to make money. They go where the money is.

We need to properly fund higher education in this country. Its what is best for the future.

Higher education should not be funded at all.
The main reason for the skyrocketing cost of tuition IS federal money pouring into the public colleges.
If so much money was not available for loans, aid and frills, the schools would have an incentive to keep down the cost of their respective education.
Get government OUT of the system and the prices will become competitive,.

For who? The rich? How would anyone be able to have the opportunity for the American dream? Easily accessible student loans are part of the problem but the other is cutting government spending on higher education.

Holy shit....Hey genius.. If the loans were not available, the schools could not charge near the current rates. That's the point....
Look back in the thread....There is one poster who went to U of Texas for $250 per semester.
Long before the federal government stuck it's nose where it doesn't belong...
BTW, with the high cost of advanced education and the almost limitless availability of loans and grants, schools have to be far more selective in their admissions. This actually hurts the marginal but hard working students who have good grades but not outstanding.
Oh, and is there something wrong with earning a degree from a community college?

Yep, I went to the University of Maryland in the 80s. Paid $800 a semester and graduated with $4k in debt, and that was getting little financial help from my parents. I double majored in Math & Computer Science, got my first job in 1988 at $33K and paid it back in less than a year. Government money is flooding colleges, they don't care about keeping costs in check. In typical liberal style, if throwing money at it didn't solve the problem, let's throw more money at it!

 

[kaz]

I didn't say they have to work for all the money. I ended up with $4K in debt. I worked odd jobs for $10 an hour in the eighties doing painting, yard work, etc. I also worked nights as a network operator.

I had to be there 4 hours a night. I didn't have to work unless the network is down, they were fine with me doing homework. Summer, winter, spring break I worked full time plus.

I worked at working at it. That's what it takes.

Except college costs have risen 360% since 1980.

And guess what workers wages done in that time:

That's right, they have stagnated.

This is an economic crisis for the US. If people are paying $300-700/month to the federal government, that money isn't going to a mortgage, a car payment, or to any other economically stimulating activity.

And if people want to save that money, guess what? That 401K isn't going to be worth anything if the companies are not making any money thus have poor stock performance. Those companies would move operations to countries who have disposable incomes. That means work dries up here in the US, thus perpetuating the problem. Businesses don't care that people are "being responsible" by paying back the federal government, they want to make money. They go where the money is.

We need to properly fund higher education in this country. Its what is best for the future.

Higher education should not be funded at all.
The main reason for the skyrocketing cost of tuition IS federal money pouring into the public colleges.
If so much money was not available for loans, aid and frills, the schools would have an incentive to keep down the cost of their respective education.
Get government OUT of the system and the prices will become competitive,.

For who? The rich? How would anyone be able to have the opportunity for the American dream? Easily accessible student loans are part of the problem but the other is cutting government spending on higher education.

Holy shit....Hey genius.. If the loans were not available, the schools could not charge near the current rates. That's the point....
Look back in the thread....There is one poster who went to U of Texas for $250 per semester.
Long before the federal government stuck it's nose where it doesn't belong...
BTW, with the high cost of advanced education and the almost limitless availability of loans and grants, schools have to be far more selective in their admissions. This actually hurts the marginal but hard working students who have good grades but not outstanding.
Oh, and is there something wrong with earning a degree from a community college?

Good is a "B" student. There is nothing wrong with a B student getting a higher education. In fact, not everyone is a genius but someone who is above average intelligence and works hard is the type of worker you want. They may be able to see things from a different perspective and offer an intelligent solution to a problem.

Saying "Oh well, B students can't go to college" is saying to that kid who did work hard "Sorry, but hard work doesn't matter in the real world, only money does." How defeated would a 17 year old kid be when he can't go to college but is C average classmate can because Daddy (or Mommy) is paying their way?

Student loans aren't the only issue. Jobs won't hire anyone who doesn't have a degree in whatever job they are hiring for. So they force competent people to do a job to pay for a degree they likely will never use in their job.

Who said B students can't go to college?

 

[ChrisL]

I addressed every one of your assertions, and well I might add.

You seriously believe that? Wow. Try re-reading the discussion. For example, I have presented twice to you the point that minimum wage doesn't raise wages, it simply prevents those not worth the wage from getting a job. It's a hurdle, not a tide. If you don't know that a couple bucks an hour changes the quality of employee you can hire at the low end then all I can say is you've never hired hourly workers.

You have given zero response to that, you simply repeated your baseless assertion that minimum wages mean the same people will earn more. You have not explained how you know more about that then experienced hiring managers or the field of economics. The economic value of workers is a normal distribution. If you raise the line at the low end of the bell curve of what you can hire, employers move up the distribution curve and hire the better workers available for the higher price.

Suppose you want to toast bread. There is a push button toaster available for $20, it meets your needs. You see a $30 toaster oven that would allow you to bake things in addition to toast. You decide you don't need that, you'll use your regular oven, you don't bake much. It's not worth the extra $10 to you.

Then government comes in and says toasters cannot be sold for less than $30. Now, do you pay $30 for the toaster worth $20? Or do you buy the $30 toaster that also bakes? Which do you think hiring managers do?

So what about addressing the point this ... third ... time. Hint, repeating your baseless assertion that workers need more money isn't addressing my point

Yes, I do. You make a lot of claims that aren't necessarily true. You have not yet backed up anything. Minimum wage has stagnated growth.

http://nelp.3cdn.net/02b725e73dc24e0644_0im6bkno9.pdf

What you seem to NOT understand is that, while the economy has grown exponentially, minimum wage has not. It used to be that a person could SURVIVE on a minimum wage job. Not the case anymore.

Your points don't make any sense and are NOT backed by any data. They are nothing but conservative talking points for the rich.

 

[kaz]

I addressed every one of your assertions, and well I might add.

You seriously believe that? Wow. Try re-reading the discussion. For example, I have presented twice to you the point that minimum wage doesn't raise wages, it simply prevents those not worth the wage from getting a job. It's a hurdle, not a tide. If you don't know that a couple bucks an hour changes the quality of employee you can hire at the low end then all I can say is you've never hired hourly workers.

You have given zero response to that, you simply repeated your baseless assertion that minimum wages mean the same people will earn more. You have not explained how you know more about that then experienced hiring managers or the field of economics. The economic value of workers is a normal distribution. If you raise the line at the low end of the bell curve of what you can hire, employers move up the distribution curve and hire the better workers available for the higher price.

Suppose you want to toast bread. There is a push button toaster available for $20, it meets your needs. You see a $30 toaster oven that would allow you to bake things in addition to toast. You decide you don't need that, you'll use your regular oven, you don't bake much. It's not worth the extra $10 to you.

Then government comes in and says toasters cannot be sold for less than $30. Now, do you pay $30 for the toaster worth $20? Or do you buy the $30 toaster that also bakes? Which do you think hiring managers do?

So what about addressing the point this ... third ... time. Hint, repeating your baseless assertion that workers need more money isn't addressing my point

Yes, I do. You make a lot of claims that aren't necessarily true. You have not yet backed up anything. Minimum wage has stagnated growth.

http://nelp.3cdn.net/02b725e73dc24e0644_0im6bkno9.pdf

What you seem to NOT understand is that, while the economy has grown exponentially, minimum wage has not. It used to be that a person could SURVIVE on a minimum wage job. Not the case anymore.

Your points don't make any sense and are NOT backed by any data. They are nothing but conservative talking points for the rich.

Right, it's my job to prove you wrong. You have to prove nothing.. You're not going to address my points, you're going to just keep repeating your claim that companies will pay more for the same employee because you want them to. Got it. We aren't, Virginia, but whatever. Hey, liberal lawyers are obviously the experts in the economy, not those of us who do it for a living. I mean they told you so. One thing we know is a lawyer wouldn't lie.

 

[ChrisL]

I didn't say they have to work for all the money. I ended up with $4K in debt. I worked odd jobs for $10 an hour in the eighties doing painting, yard work, etc. I also worked nights as a network operator.

I had to be there 4 hours a night. I didn't have to work unless the network is down, they were fine with me doing homework. Summer, winter, spring break I worked full time plus.

I worked at working at it. That's what it takes.

Except college costs have risen 360% since 1980.

And guess what workers wages done in that time:

That's right, they have stagnated.

This is an economic crisis for the US. If people are paying $300-700/month to the federal government, that money isn't going to a mortgage, a car payment, or to any other economically stimulating activity.

And if people want to save that money, guess what? That 401K isn't going to be worth anything if the companies are not making any money thus have poor stock performance. Those companies would move operations to countries who have disposable incomes. That means work dries up here in the US, thus perpetuating the problem. Businesses don't care that people are "being responsible" by paying back the federal government, they want to make money. They go where the money is.

We need to properly fund higher education in this country. Its what is best for the future.

Higher education should not be funded at all.
The main reason for the skyrocketing cost of tuition IS federal money pouring into the public colleges.
If so much money was not available for loans, aid and frills, the schools would have an incentive to keep down the cost of their respective education.
Get government OUT of the system and the prices will become competitive,.

For who? The rich? How would anyone be able to have the opportunity for the American dream? Easily accessible student loans are part of the problem but the other is cutting government spending on higher education.

Holy shit....Hey genius.. If the loans were not available, the schools could not charge near the current rates. That's the point....
Look back in the thread....There is one poster who went to U of Texas for $250 per semester.
Long before the federal government stuck it's nose where it doesn't belong...
BTW, with the high cost of advanced education and the almost limitless availability of loans and grants, schools have to be far more selective in their admissions. This actually hurts the marginal but hard working students who have good grades but not outstanding.
Oh, and is there something wrong with earning a degree from a community college?

Yep, I went to the University of Maryland in the 80s. Paid $800 a semester and graduated with $4k in debt, and that was getting little financial help from my parents. I double majored in Math & Computer Science, got my first job in 1988 at $33K and paid it back in less than a year. Government money is flooding colleges, they don't care about keeping costs in check. In typical liberal style, if throwing money at it didn't solve the problem, let's throw more money at it!

Yup, in the 80s. You are old and out of touch with the job market and the way things work nowadays. Your assertions make absolutely NO SENSE.

Explain in detail how loans and grants raise prices instead of just making baseless claims. All loans and grants do is expand the pool of people who are allowed to go to college. Like I said before, GREED.

Not to mention, if our taxes went to pay for college instead of other countries' needs, none of that would be an issue anymore.

 

[ChrisL]

I addressed every one of your assertions, and well I might add.

You seriously believe that? Wow. Try re-reading the discussion. For example, I have presented twice to you the point that minimum wage doesn't raise wages, it simply prevents those not worth the wage from getting a job. It's a hurdle, not a tide. If you don't know that a couple bucks an hour changes the quality of employee you can hire at the low end then all I can say is you've never hired hourly workers.

You have given zero response to that, you simply repeated your baseless assertion that minimum wages mean the same people will earn more. You have not explained how you know more about that then experienced hiring managers or the field of economics. The economic value of workers is a normal distribution. If you raise the line at the low end of the bell curve of what you can hire, employers move up the distribution curve and hire the better workers available for the higher price.

Suppose you want to toast bread. There is a push button toaster available for $20, it meets your needs. You see a $30 toaster oven that would allow you to bake things in addition to toast. You decide you don't need that, you'll use your regular oven, you don't bake much. It's not worth the extra $10 to you.

Then government comes in and says toasters cannot be sold for less than $30. Now, do you pay $30 for the toaster worth $20? Or do you buy the $30 toaster that also bakes? Which do you think hiring managers do?

So what about addressing the point this ... third ... time. Hint, repeating your baseless assertion that workers need more money isn't addressing my point

Yes, I do. You make a lot of claims that aren't necessarily true. You have not yet backed up anything. Minimum wage has stagnated growth.

http://nelp.3cdn.net/02b725e73dc24e0644_0im6bkno9.pdf

What you seem to NOT understand is that, while the economy has grown exponentially, minimum wage has not. It used to be that a person could SURVIVE on a minimum wage job. Not the case anymore.

Your points don't make any sense and are NOT backed by any data. They are nothing but conservative talking points for the rich.

Right, it's my job to prove you wrong. You have to prove nothing.. You're not going to address it, you're going to just keep repeating your claim that companies will pay more for the same employee because you want them to

I've already provided you with a link that you obviously have not even read. You are the one not addressing the points here.

 

[ChrisL]

I didn't say they have to work for all the money. I ended up with $4K in debt. I worked odd jobs for $10 an hour in the eighties doing painting, yard work, etc. I also worked nights as a network operator.

I had to be there 4 hours a night. I didn't have to work unless the network is down, they were fine with me doing homework. Summer, winter, spring break I worked full time plus.

I worked at working at it. That's what it takes.

Except college costs have risen 360% since 1980.

And guess what workers wages done in that time:

That's right, they have stagnated.

This is an economic crisis for the US. If people are paying $300-700/month to the federal government, that money isn't going to a mortgage, a car payment, or to any other economically stimulating activity.

And if people want to save that money, guess what? That 401K isn't going to be worth anything if the companies are not making any money thus have poor stock performance. Those companies would move operations to countries who have disposable incomes. That means work dries up here in the US, thus perpetuating the problem. Businesses don't care that people are "being responsible" by paying back the federal government, they want to make money. They go where the money is.

We need to properly fund higher education in this country. Its what is best for the future.

Higher education should not be funded at all.
The main reason for the skyrocketing cost of tuition IS federal money pouring into the public colleges.
If so much money was not available for loans, aid and frills, the schools would have an incentive to keep down the cost of their respective education.
Get government OUT of the system and the prices will become competitive,.

For who? The rich? How would anyone be able to have the opportunity for the American dream? Easily accessible student loans are part of the problem but the other is cutting government spending on higher education.

Holy shit....Hey genius.. If the loans were not available, the schools could not charge near the current rates. That's the point....
Look back in the thread....There is one poster who went to U of Texas for $250 per semester.
Long before the federal government stuck it's nose where it doesn't belong...
BTW, with the high cost of advanced education and the almost limitless availability of loans and grants, schools have to be far more selective in their admissions. This actually hurts the marginal but hard working students who have good grades but not outstanding.
Oh, and is there something wrong with earning a degree from a community college?

Yep, I went to the University of Maryland in the 80s. Paid $800 a semester and graduated with $4k in debt, and that was getting little financial help from my parents. I double majored in Math & Computer Science, got my first job in 1988 at $33K and paid it back in less than a year. Government money is flooding colleges, they don't care about keeping costs in check. In typical liberal style, if throwing money at it didn't solve the problem, let's throw more money at it!

Tuition increases match cost of living and inflation. That has nothing to do with people taking out student loans. Student loans are federally GUARANTEED. The colleges get paid no matter what.

 

[ChrisL]

What job can an 18 year old work at that would be able to pay his tuition at the same time as going to school? None. Tuition is at least $18k/yr. To pay that off and other living expenses, the person would have to work a 40K with a high school degree. That doesn't exist in this world for young people.

Also, these students were told this degree would get them a job in their field. They manipulated the job numbers to say "Hey, you will get a job when you graduate!" Which weren't true. These schools broke the law, that's why they are trying to get their loan forgiven.

I didn't say they have to work for all the money. I ended up with $4K in debt. I worked odd jobs for $10 an hour in the eighties doing painting, yard work, etc. I also worked nights as a network operator.

I had to be there 4 hours a night. I didn't have to work unless the network is down, they were fine with me doing homework. Summer, winter, spring break I worked full time plus.

I worked at working at it. That's what it takes.

Except college costs have risen 360% since 1980.

And guess what workers wages done in that time:

That's right, they have stagnated.

This is an economic crisis for the US. If people are paying $300-700/month to the federal government, that money isn't going to a mortgage, a car payment, or to any other economically stimulating activity.

And if people want to save that money, guess what? That 401K isn't going to be worth anything if the companies are not making any money thus have poor stock performance. Those companies would move operations to countries who have disposable incomes. That means work dries up here in the US, thus perpetuating the problem. Businesses don't care that people are "being responsible" by paying back the federal government, they want to make money. They go where the money is.

We need to properly fund higher education in this country. Its what is best for the future.

That is a great argument that what you propose doesn't work. Endless low interest government money is a bad idea. You want the cost of school to go down, eliminate government subsidized loans. Then students will pick schools based on the value they get and make better choices. Schools aren't accountable for creating economic value and the cost is skyrocketing. You want to double down on that over and over by flooding in even more government money to unaccountable administratoins.

Throw money at a problem and hope some of it helps. What a great plan. As a management consultant, I never tried suggesting that strategy to CEOs. I'll try that next time, thanks for the tip. Hey, I know it's a problem bro, throw money at it, maybe that will help. You know, like liberals do in government. Yeah, I'd be on the street by tonight. You people do know how to waste money, and wasting your own isn't enough for you

AS you've been told, those getting grants and student loans HAVE TO MAINTAIN A CERTAIN GRADE POINT AVERAGE. Derp.

 

[Jarhead]

Universities get millions from their athletics programs. State Schools get millions form the states. I need to question why a state school costs an in state student 18K a year (here in NY) and a private university cost north of 50K a year.

 

[ChrisL]

Yeah, sure, lol, in an IDEAL world, your ideas would work.

That I got an education with little help from my parents, worked so I could limit debt and got useful degrees that provided the income to pay back what I did have to borrow shows how wrong you are.

As for to that self reliance being "IDEAL" world and it doesn't work so we need government to do it for us, all I can say is

THAT is why we don't rely on charitable donations anymore. MOST people don't give a shit about other people. That's a fact.

The tsunami in the Indian ocean and other catastrophes shows how wrong you are.

Also, apparently personal responsibility like I took apparently just isn't part of your world as you keep ignoring that completely.

My view is:

1) Self reliance

2) Charity

Your view is

1) Government

Gawd, that's what keeps getting us deeper into this mess. Government provides our retirement and now our health care, you people now want free college. Oh, but government spending will reduce deficits kaz. Yeah. You are tripping

Our GOVERNMENT gave the people of India money too. Duh. So did many other GOVERNMENTS. Maybe you should realize how much money our government gives to foreign countries every year (BILLIONS of dollars) of "YOUR" tax payer money. A lot of that money could be kept here to help US.

The American people gave far more than the American government did, contradicting your claim again we're a bunch of cheap, selfish people. Foreign was the reverse, almost all giving was their government. And yes, all foreign aid should be eliminated, every dime

I agree. NO more foreign aid to anyone. They love our money but after getting OUR money they have no problem kicking us in the teeth.

As for college?? No way should the taxpayers pay for someones college educations. You want to go to college get a loan or get off your ass and put yourself through college.

Seeing the way things are right now folks would be better off in a trade school. Electricians and plumbers are always in demand. The hell with college. Go for something thats going to help you in your life.

How many college kids out there can't find a job??

And . . . how many electricians and plumbers do we need? Good Lord.

 

[Jarhead]

What job can an 18 year old work at that would be able to pay his tuition at the same time as going to school? None. Tuition is at least $18k/yr. To pay that off and other living expenses, the person would have to work a 40K with a high school degree. That doesn't exist in this world for young people.

Also, these students were told this degree would get them a job in their field. They manipulated the job numbers to say "Hey, you will get a job when you graduate!" Which weren't true. These schools broke the law, that's why they are trying to get their loan forgiven.

I didn't say they have to work for all the money. I ended up with $4K in debt. I worked odd jobs for $10 an hour in the eighties doing painting, yard work, etc. I also worked nights as a network operator.

I had to be there 4 hours a night. I didn't have to work unless the network is down, they were fine with me doing homework. Summer, winter, spring break I worked full time plus.

I worked at working at it. That's what it takes.

Except college costs have risen 360% since 1980.

And guess what workers wages done in that time:

That's right, they have stagnated.

This is an economic crisis for the US. If people are paying $300-700/month to the federal government, that money isn't going to a mortgage, a car payment, or to any other economically stimulating activity.

And if people want to save that money, guess what? That 401K isn't going to be worth anything if the companies are not making any money thus have poor stock performance. Those companies would move operations to countries who have disposable incomes. That means work dries up here in the US, thus perpetuating the problem. Businesses don't care that people are "being responsible" by paying back the federal government, they want to make money. They go where the money is.

We need to properly fund higher education in this country. Its what is best for the future.

That is a great argument that what you propose doesn't work. Endless low interest government money is a bad idea. You want the cost of school to go down, eliminate government subsidized loans. Then students will pick schools based on the value they get and make better choices. Schools aren't accountable for creating economic value and the cost is skyrocketing. You want to double down on that over and over by flooding in even more government money to unaccountable administratoins.

Throw money at a problem and hope some of it helps. What a great plan. As a management consultant, I never tried suggesting that strategy to CEOs. I'll try that next time, thanks for the tip. Hey, I know it's a problem bro, throw money at it, maybe that will help. You know, like liberals do in government. Yeah, I'd be on the street by tonight. You people do know how to waste money, and wasting your own isn't enough for you

AS you've been told, those getting grants and student loans HAVE TO MAINTAIN A CERTAIN GRADE POINT AVERAGE. Derp.

that is absolutely not true as it pertains to student loans...Heck, my nephew, failed all but one course his freshman year. Got a total of 3 credits. He did not lose his loan nor was he disqualified for getting a loan for all 7 following semesters. Took him 9 semesters to get a 4 year degree, and I believe he had to pay out of pocket for the 9th.

 

[kaz]

Yup, in the 80s. You are old and out of touch with the job market and the way things work nowadays. Your assertions make absolutely NO SENSE.

First, swish, you completely whiffed on the point I made.

As for out of touch with the job market…



My career has been in management, management consulting and entrepreneurship since the 80s. out of touch with the job market? You are insane. Yet lawyers who spent their career is politics, them you believe. Your brain is spaghetti.

Explain in detail how loans and grants raise prices instead of just making baseless claims. All loans and grants do is expand the pool of people who are allowed to go to college. Like I said before, GREED.

First, I’m not explaining any more in detail until you start addressing my points, which you are either unwilling or incapable of doing. As for greed, mirror, sweetie, it is you on a message board demanding money, other people’s money, for your cause.

Not to mention, if our taxes went to pay for college instead of other countries' needs, none of that would be an issue anymore.

You have no sense of perspective. Yeah, I’m against foreign aid, but ending foreign aid will provide free college educations? You’re freaking nuts.

 

[Jarhead]

Yeah, sure, lol, in an IDEAL world, your ideas would work.

That I got an education with little help from my parents, worked so I could limit debt and got useful degrees that provided the income to pay back what I did have to borrow shows how wrong you are.

As for to that self reliance being "IDEAL" world and it doesn't work so we need government to do it for us, all I can say is

THAT is why we don't rely on charitable donations anymore. MOST people don't give a shit about other people. That's a fact.

The tsunami in the Indian ocean and other catastrophes shows how wrong you are.

Also, apparently personal responsibility like I took apparently just isn't part of your world as you keep ignoring that completely.

My view is:

1) Self reliance

2) Charity

Your view is

1) Government

Gawd, that's what keeps getting us deeper into this mess. Government provides our retirement and now our health care, you people now want free college. Oh, but government spending will reduce deficits kaz. Yeah. You are tripping

Our GOVERNMENT gave the people of India money too. Duh. So did many other GOVERNMENTS. Maybe you should realize how much money our government gives to foreign countries every year (BILLIONS of dollars) of "YOUR" tax payer money. A lot of that money could be kept here to help US.

The American people gave far more than the American government did, contradicting your claim again we're a bunch of cheap, selfish people. Foreign was the reverse, almost all giving was their government. And yes, all foreign aid should be eliminated, every dime

I agree. NO more foreign aid to anyone. They love our money but after getting OUR money they have no problem kicking us in the teeth.

As for college?? No way should the taxpayers pay for someones college educations. You want to go to college get a loan or get off your ass and put yourself through college.

Seeing the way things are right now folks would be better off in a trade school. Electricians and plumbers are always in demand. The hell with college. Go for something thats going to help you in your life.

How many college kids out there can't find a job??

And . . . how many electricians and plumbers do we need? Good Lord.

machinists, carpet layers, store clerks, loading dock workers, truck drivers, civil servants,......I can continue if you would like.....item counters, quality inspectors, baggers, auto mechanics.......shall I continue?

 

[kaz]

Except college costs have risen 360% since 1980.

And guess what workers wages done in that time:

That's right, they have stagnated.

This is an economic crisis for the US. If people are paying $300-700/month to the federal government, that money isn't going to a mortgage, a car payment, or to any other economically stimulating activity.

And if people want to save that money, guess what? That 401K isn't going to be worth anything if the companies are not making any money thus have poor stock performance. Those companies would move operations to countries who have disposable incomes. That means work dries up here in the US, thus perpetuating the problem. Businesses don't care that people are "being responsible" by paying back the federal government, they want to make money. They go where the money is.

We need to properly fund higher education in this country. Its what is best for the future.

Higher education should not be funded at all.
The main reason for the skyrocketing cost of tuition IS federal money pouring into the public colleges.
If so much money was not available for loans, aid and frills, the schools would have an incentive to keep down the cost of their respective education.
Get government OUT of the system and the prices will become competitive,.

For who? The rich? How would anyone be able to have the opportunity for the American dream? Easily accessible student loans are part of the problem but the other is cutting government spending on higher education.

Holy shit....Hey genius.. If the loans were not available, the schools could not charge near the current rates. That's the point....
Look back in the thread....There is one poster who went to U of Texas for $250 per semester.
Long before the federal government stuck it's nose where it doesn't belong...
BTW, with the high cost of advanced education and the almost limitless availability of loans and grants, schools have to be far more selective in their admissions. This actually hurts the marginal but hard working students who have good grades but not outstanding.
Oh, and is there something wrong with earning a degree from a community college?

Yep, I went to the University of Maryland in the 80s. Paid $800 a semester and graduated with $4k in debt, and that was getting little financial help from my parents. I double majored in Math & Computer Science, got my first job in 1988 at $33K and paid it back in less than a year. Government money is flooding colleges, they don't care about keeping costs in check. In typical liberal style, if throwing money at it didn't solve the problem, let's throw more money at it!

Tuition increases match cost of living and inflation. That has nothing to do with people taking out student loans. Student loans are federally GUARANTEED. The colleges get paid no matter what.

You didn't understand the housing bubble either apparently. You flood a market with cheap money, what happens to prices? Cue the jeopardy music...

 

[kaz]

What job can an 18 year old work at that would be able to pay his tuition at the same time as going to school? None. Tuition is at least $18k/yr. To pay that off and other living expenses, the person would have to work a 40K with a high school degree. That doesn't exist in this world for young people.

Also, these students were told this degree would get them a job in their field. They manipulated the job numbers to say "Hey, you will get a job when you graduate!" Which weren't true. These schools broke the law, that's why they are trying to get their loan forgiven.

I didn't say they have to work for all the money. I ended up with $4K in debt. I worked odd jobs for $10 an hour in the eighties doing painting, yard work, etc. I also worked nights as a network operator.

I had to be there 4 hours a night. I didn't have to work unless the network is down, they were fine with me doing homework. Summer, winter, spring break I worked full time plus.

I worked at working at it. That's what it takes.

Except college costs have risen 360% since 1980.

And guess what workers wages done in that time:

That's right, they have stagnated.

This is an economic crisis for the US. If people are paying $300-700/month to the federal government, that money isn't going to a mortgage, a car payment, or to any other economically stimulating activity.

And if people want to save that money, guess what? That 401K isn't going to be worth anything if the companies are not making any money thus have poor stock performance. Those companies would move operations to countries who have disposable incomes. That means work dries up here in the US, thus perpetuating the problem. Businesses don't care that people are "being responsible" by paying back the federal government, they want to make money. They go where the money is.

We need to properly fund higher education in this country. Its what is best for the future.

That is a great argument that what you propose doesn't work. Endless low interest government money is a bad idea. You want the cost of school to go down, eliminate government subsidized loans. Then students will pick schools based on the value they get and make better choices. Schools aren't accountable for creating economic value and the cost is skyrocketing. You want to double down on that over and over by flooding in even more government money to unaccountable administratoins.

Throw money at a problem and hope some of it helps. What a great plan. As a management consultant, I never tried suggesting that strategy to CEOs. I'll try that next time, thanks for the tip. Hey, I know it's a problem bro, throw money at it, maybe that will help. You know, like liberals do in government. Yeah, I'd be on the street by tonight. You people do know how to waste money, and wasting your own isn't enough for you

AS you've been told, those getting grants and student loans HAVE TO MAINTAIN A CERTAIN GRADE POINT AVERAGE. Derp.

Oh, now I get it. So if you get a B in underwater basket weaving, you will be able to get a good job. Got it.

 

[kaz]

Yeah, sure, lol, in an IDEAL world, your ideas would work.

That I got an education with little help from my parents, worked so I could limit debt and got useful degrees that provided the income to pay back what I did have to borrow shows how wrong you are.

As for to that self reliance being "IDEAL" world and it doesn't work so we need government to do it for us, all I can say is

THAT is why we don't rely on charitable donations anymore. MOST people don't give a shit about other people. That's a fact.

The tsunami in the Indian ocean and other catastrophes shows how wrong you are.

Also, apparently personal responsibility like I took apparently just isn't part of your world as you keep ignoring that completely.

My view is:

1) Self reliance

2) Charity

Your view is

1) Government

Gawd, that's what keeps getting us deeper into this mess. Government provides our retirement and now our health care, you people now want free college. Oh, but government spending will reduce deficits kaz. Yeah. You are tripping

Our GOVERNMENT gave the people of India money too. Duh. So did many other GOVERNMENTS. Maybe you should realize how much money our government gives to foreign countries every year (BILLIONS of dollars) of "YOUR" tax payer money. A lot of that money could be kept here to help US.

The American people gave far more than the American government did, contradicting your claim again we're a bunch of cheap, selfish people. Foreign was the reverse, almost all giving was their government. And yes, all foreign aid should be eliminated, every dime

I agree. NO more foreign aid to anyone. They love our money but after getting OUR money they have no problem kicking us in the teeth.

As for college?? No way should the taxpayers pay for someones college educations. You want to go to college get a loan or get off your ass and put yourself through college.

Seeing the way things are right now folks would be better off in a trade school. Electricians and plumbers are always in demand. The hell with college. Go for something thats going to help you in your life.

How many college kids out there can't find a job??

And . . . how many electricians and plumbers do we need? Good Lord.

That is actually how your socialist utopias in Europe work. Not everyone gets a higher degree in jobless fields, many get trade skills. We should do that more in high school, like they do

 

[ChrisL]

That I got an education with little help from my parents, worked so I could limit debt and got useful degrees that provided the income to pay back what I did have to borrow shows how wrong you are.

As for to that self reliance being "IDEAL" world and it doesn't work so we need government to do it for us, all I can say is



The tsunami in the Indian ocean and other catastrophes shows how wrong you are.

Also, apparently personal responsibility like I took apparently just isn't part of your world as you keep ignoring that completely.

My view is:

1) Self reliance

2) Charity

Your view is

1) Government

Gawd, that's what keeps getting us deeper into this mess. Government provides our retirement and now our health care, you people now want free college. Oh, but government spending will reduce deficits kaz. Yeah. You are tripping

Our GOVERNMENT gave the people of India money too. Duh. So did many other GOVERNMENTS. Maybe you should realize how much money our government gives to foreign countries every year (BILLIONS of dollars) of "YOUR" tax payer money. A lot of that money could be kept here to help US.

The American people gave far more than the American government did, contradicting your claim again we're a bunch of cheap, selfish people. Foreign was the reverse, almost all giving was their government. And yes, all foreign aid should be eliminated, every dime

I agree. NO more foreign aid to anyone. They love our money but after getting OUR money they have no problem kicking us in the teeth.

As for college?? No way should the taxpayers pay for someones college educations. You want to go to college get a loan or get off your ass and put yourself through college.

Seeing the way things are right now folks would be better off in a trade school. Electricians and plumbers are always in demand. The hell with college. Go for something thats going to help you in your life.

How many college kids out there can't find a job??

And . . . how many electricians and plumbers do we need? Good Lord.

machinists, carpet layers, store clerks, loading dock workers, truck drivers, civil servants,......I can continue if you would like.....item counters, quality inspectors, baggers, auto mechanics.......shall I continue?

And a LOT of those are minimum wage paying jobs. And what of the kids who are smart enough and motivated enough to be doctor? They don't have any option except to accept going to a trade school?

 

[ChrisL]

What job can an 18 year old work at that would be able to pay his tuition at the same time as going to school? None. Tuition is at least $18k/yr. To pay that off and other living expenses, the person would have to work a 40K with a high school degree. That doesn't exist in this world for young people.

Also, these students were told this degree would get them a job in their field. They manipulated the job numbers to say "Hey, you will get a job when you graduate!" Which weren't true. These schools broke the law, that's why they are trying to get their loan forgiven.

I didn't say they have to work for all the money. I ended up with $4K in debt. I worked odd jobs for $10 an hour in the eighties doing painting, yard work, etc. I also worked nights as a network operator.

I had to be there 4 hours a night. I didn't have to work unless the network is down, they were fine with me doing homework. Summer, winter, spring break I worked full time plus.

I worked at working at it. That's what it takes.

Except college costs have risen 360% since 1980.

And guess what workers wages done in that time:

That's right, they have stagnated.

This is an economic crisis for the US. If people are paying $300-700/month to the federal government, that money isn't going to a mortgage, a car payment, or to any other economically stimulating activity.

And if people want to save that money, guess what? That 401K isn't going to be worth anything if the companies are not making any money thus have poor stock performance. Those companies would move operations to countries who have disposable incomes. That means work dries up here in the US, thus perpetuating the problem. Businesses don't care that people are "being responsible" by paying back the federal government, they want to make money. They go where the money is.

We need to properly fund higher education in this country. Its what is best for the future.

That is a great argument that what you propose doesn't work. Endless low interest government money is a bad idea. You want the cost of school to go down, eliminate government subsidized loans. Then students will pick schools based on the value they get and make better choices. Schools aren't accountable for creating economic value and the cost is skyrocketing. You want to double down on that over and over by flooding in even more government money to unaccountable administratoins.

Throw money at a problem and hope some of it helps. What a great plan. As a management consultant, I never tried suggesting that strategy to CEOs. I'll try that next time, thanks for the tip. Hey, I know it's a problem bro, throw money at it, maybe that will help. You know, like liberals do in government. Yeah, I'd be on the street by tonight. You people do know how to waste money, and wasting your own isn't enough for you

AS you've been told, those getting grants and student loans HAVE TO MAINTAIN A CERTAIN GRADE POINT AVERAGE. Derp.

Oh, now I get it. So if you get a B in underwater basket weaving, you will be able to get a good job. Got it.

You don't listen very well, do you? I'm talking about kids who have GREAT potential but cannot attend college because of monetary reasons.