A Reminder

[RetiredGySgt]

Ruby Ridge was where the FBI illegally killed a boy and his mother after fabricating charges against the Father in an entrapment scheme. The father was entrapped into making a sawed off shotgun for an under cover agent for the sole purpose of him becoming a mole for the FBI in the white supremacy Community i Idaho.

When Randy Weaver refused to play and went to his home in the mountains the FBI sent in agents to "capture" him. An Agent illegal on his property suprised Randy's 14 year old son and family dog, shot and killed the dog, the boy shot back and the agent killed the boy.

This was followed by the Agent in charge illegally changing the orders on when a sniper could fire to not include the subject being armed or in anyway a threat to the FBI. Randy Weaver left his home to take care of property business with NO weapon. No FBI agents were anywhere near him. Yet the FBI sniper was given the go ahead to shot an unarmed man. He missed, firing through the door and killing Randy Weaver's UNARMED wife holding their baby.

Randy gave up. Went to trial and the Judge threw the case out because it was illegal. He admonished the FBI and demanded action be taken against the illegal activities of that Agency. The results? The Agent in charge got promoted under Janet Reno and the Sniper did too.

In other words the FBI murdered two innocent civilians for no reason.

 

[xsited1]

Janet Napolitano is just like Janet Reno. I expect a lot more innocent Americans to be killed under Obama in the name of 'justice'. She's already identified millions of people that could be a threat to national security.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Ruby Ridge was where the FBI illegally killed a boy and his mother after fabricating charges against the Father in an entrapment scheme. The father was entrapped into making a sawed off shotgun for an under cover agent for the sole purpose of him becoming a mole for the FBI in the white supremacy Community i Idaho.

When Randy Weaver refused to play and went to his home in the mountains the FBI sent in agents to "capture" him. An Agent illegal on his property suprised Randy's 14 year old son and family dog, shot and killed the dog, the boy shot back and the agent killed the boy.

This was followed by the Agent in charge illegally changing the orders on when a sniper could fire to not include the subject being armed or in anyway a threat to the FBI. Randy Weaver left his home to take care of property business with NO weapon. No FBI agents were anywhere near him. Yet the FBI sniper was given the go ahead to shot an unarmed man. He missed, firing through the door and killing Randy Weaver's UNARMED wife holding their baby.

Randy gave up. Went to trial and the Judge threw the case out because it was illegal. He admonished the FBI and demanded action be taken against the illegal activities of that Agency. The results? The Agent in charge got promoted under Janet Reno and the Sniper did too.

In other words the FBI murdered two innocent civilians for no reason.

Hey, its your story. Leave out all the details you want.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ruby Ridge was where the FBI illegally killed a boy and his mother after fabricating charges against the Father in an entrapment scheme. The father was entrapped into making a sawed off shotgun for an under cover agent for the sole purpose of him becoming a mole for the FBI in the white supremacy Community i Idaho.

When Randy Weaver refused to play and went to his home in the mountains the FBI sent in agents to "capture" him. An Agent illegal on his property suprised Randy's 14 year old son and family dog, shot and killed the dog, the boy shot back and the agent killed the boy.

This was followed by the Agent in charge illegally changing the orders on when a sniper could fire to not include the subject being armed or in anyway a threat to the FBI. Randy Weaver left his home to take care of property business with NO weapon. No FBI agents were anywhere near him. Yet the FBI sniper was given the go ahead to shot an unarmed man. He missed, firing through the door and killing Randy Weaver's UNARMED wife holding their baby.

Randy gave up. Went to trial and the Judge threw the case out because it was illegal. He admonished the FBI and demanded action be taken against the illegal activities of that Agency. The results? The Agent in charge got promoted under Janet Reno and the Sniper did too.

In other words the FBI murdered two innocent civilians for no reason.

Hey, its your story. Leave out all the details you want.

Sure thing. Of course you could provide evidence of what I supposedly left out.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Ruby Ridge was where the FBI illegally killed a boy and his mother after fabricating charges against the Father in an entrapment scheme. The father was entrapped into making a sawed off shotgun for an under cover agent for the sole purpose of him becoming a mole for the FBI in the white supremacy Community i Idaho.

When Randy Weaver refused to play and went to his home in the mountains the FBI sent in agents to "capture" him. An Agent illegal on his property suprised Randy's 14 year old son and family dog, shot and killed the dog, the boy shot back and the agent killed the boy.

This was followed by the Agent in charge illegally changing the orders on when a sniper could fire to not include the subject being armed or in anyway a threat to the FBI. Randy Weaver left his home to take care of property business with NO weapon. No FBI agents were anywhere near him. Yet the FBI sniper was given the go ahead to shot an unarmed man. He missed, firing through the door and killing Randy Weaver's UNARMED wife holding their baby.

Randy gave up. Went to trial and the Judge threw the case out because it was illegal. He admonished the FBI and demanded action be taken against the illegal activities of that Agency. The results? The Agent in charge got promoted under Janet Reno and the Sniper did too.

In other words the FBI murdered two innocent civilians for no reason.

Hey, its your story. Leave out all the details you want.

Sure thing. Of course you could provide evidence of what I supposedly left out.

I'm not arguing the tactical impetence of the on site SAC. Once the Marshalls shot the dog, they screwed the pooch six ways from sunday. Hell Horiuchi was charged with manslaughter. But the charges against Weaver were not manufactured. He had already been arrested and was being served a bench warrant for failure to appear in court. The warrant was valid, as were the charges.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Hey, its your story. Leave out all the details you want.

Sure thing. Of course you could provide evidence of what I supposedly left out.

I'm not arguing the tactical impetence of the on site SAC. Once the Marshalls shot the dog, they screwed the pooch six ways from sunday. Hell Horiuchi was charged with manslaughter. But the charges against Weaver were not manufactured. He had already been arrested and was being served a bench warrant for failure to appear in court. The warrant was valid, as were the charges.

Except they were illegal. As the Court ruled in his trial. He was entrapped by the FBI. And none of the Agents were punished in anyway for killing a 14 year old boy and Mrs Weaver.

One could argue the boy fired first but there is NO defense of the wanton killing of an unarmed mother holding her child. The sniper fired at an UNARMED Randy Weaver. That is NOT allowed per FBI procedures EVER. Further NO FBI agent was even in the area of Weaver so they could not claim any Agent was even in danger. And both the Agent in charge and the Sniper were PROMOTED rather then PUNISHED.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Sure thing. Of course you could provide evidence of what I supposedly left out.

I'm not arguing the tactical impetence of the on site SAC. Once the Marshalls shot the dog, they screwed the pooch six ways from sunday. Hell Horiuchi was charged with manslaughter. But the charges against Weaver were not manufactured. He had already been arrested and was being served a bench warrant for failure to appear in court. The warrant was valid, as were the charges.

Except they were illegal. As the Court ruled in his trial. He was entrapped by the FBI. And none of the Agents were punished in anyway for killing a 14 year old boy and Mrs Weaver.

One could argue the boy fired first but there is NO defense of the wanton killing of an unarmed mother holding her child. The sniper fired at an UNARMED Randy Weaver. That is NOT allowed per FBI procedures EVER. Further NO FBI agent was even in the area of Weaver so they could not claim any Agent was even in danger. And both the Agent in charge and the Sniper were PROMOTED rather then PUNISHED.

Yeah, you missed my point. Whether or not Weaver was acquitted after the fact is irrelevant. If he had showed his ass up in court the first time, the bench warrant would never have been issued. Hence, no Ruby Ridge. He ingnored a court date. Simple as that.

As for the second statement. I'm not arguing that the incident was not screwed up from the get go. I fully agree that Lon Horiuchi(the sniper in which you refer) was an embecile that ignored the ROE and fired on unarmed civilians. He should have been sent to prison. He should have also been sent to prison for his actions at Waco, but that is neither here nor there. Fact is, Weaver ignored a perfectly legal summons to stand trial. The fact that teh US Marshall's showed up should not have been a surprise.

And for the record. Louis Freeh did discipline Agents for their actions once he took over the reigns at FBI.

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1995_hr/s951019f.htm

 

[Article 15]

Janet Napolitano is just like Janet Reno. I expect a lot more innocent Americans to be killed under Obama in the name of 'justice'. She's already identified millions of people that could be a threat to national security.

What does Janet Reno have to do with this?

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Janet Napolitano is just like Janet Reno. I expect a lot more innocent Americans to be killed under Obama in the name of 'justice'. She's already identified millions of people that could be a threat to national security.

What does Janet Reno have to do with this?

Nothing. She wasn't even in office for Ruby Ridge.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I'm not arguing the tactical impetence of the on site SAC. Once the Marshalls shot the dog, they screwed the pooch six ways from sunday. Hell Horiuchi was charged with manslaughter. But the charges against Weaver were not manufactured. He had already been arrested and was being served a bench warrant for failure to appear in court. The warrant was valid, as were the charges.

Except they were illegal. As the Court ruled in his trial. He was entrapped by the FBI. And none of the Agents were punished in anyway for killing a 14 year old boy and Mrs Weaver.

One could argue the boy fired first but there is NO defense of the wanton killing of an unarmed mother holding her child. The sniper fired at an UNARMED Randy Weaver. That is NOT allowed per FBI procedures EVER. Further NO FBI agent was even in the area of Weaver so they could not claim any Agent was even in danger. And both the Agent in charge and the Sniper were PROMOTED rather then PUNISHED.

Yeah, you missed my point. Whether or not Weaver was acquitted after the fact is irrelevant. If he had showed his ass up in court the first time, the bench warrant would never have been issued. Hence, no Ruby Ridge. He ingnored a court date. Simple as that.

As for the second statement. I'm not arguing that the incident was not screwed up from the get go. I fully agree that Lon Horiuchi(the sniper in which you refer) was an embecile that ignored the ROE and fired on unarmed civilians. He should have been sent to prison. He should have also been sent to prison for his actions at Waco, but that is neither here nor there. Fact is, Weaver ignored a perfectly legal summons to stand trial. The fact that teh US Marshall's showed up should not have been a surprise.

Killing the Dog was a provocative act. As I recall the guy did not even Identify himself.

The Marshals should have driven up to the house to issue the warrant to begin with and once the FBI took over they should have not taken the illegal actions they did. It was not JUST the sniper, his boss changed the ROE that allowed the sniper to fire to begin with, and BOTH were promoted by Janet Reno.

It was Government sanctioned murder. Which is the entire point of this thread. Clinton's Attorney General not only did nothing about those murders, she PROMOTED the men involved. And then she ORDERED the assault on the Waco Compound for no reason other then she was tired of the press. No one in the compound was a threat to anyone, in the 3 months of the siege no one tried to sneak out and no one fired on the FBI. There is some evidence the FBI was flying helicopters over the compound and firing into it though.

 

[Article 15]

Heh .. I've never really looked into that incident before and only have a vague recollection of it.

It sounds to me like a bunch of incompetents ran the operation. How the sniper that took the shot that hit dude's wife had a career after that is beyond me.

But Weaver definitely seems a little shady and CW does have a point that all he had to do was show up to court to have avoided all of this.

It's actually pretty tragic.

 

[Luissa]

Ruby Ridge was where the FBI illegally killed a boy and his mother after fabricating charges against the Father in an entrapment scheme. The father was entrapped into making a sawed off shotgun for an under cover agent for the sole purpose of him becoming a mole for the FBI in the white supremacy Community i Idaho.

When Randy Weaver refused to play and went to his home in the mountains the FBI sent in agents to "capture" him. An Agent illegal on his property suprised Randy's 14 year old son and family dog, shot and killed the dog, the boy shot back and the agent killed the boy.

This was followed by the Agent in charge illegally changing the orders on when a sniper could fire to not include the subject being armed or in anyway a threat to the FBI. Randy Weaver left his home to take care of property business with NO weapon. No FBI agents were anywhere near him. Yet the FBI sniper was given the go ahead to shot an unarmed man. He missed, firing through the door and killing Randy Weaver's UNARMED wife holding their baby.

Randy gave up. Went to trial and the Judge threw the case out because it was illegal. He admonished the FBI and demanded action be taken against the illegal activities of that Agency. The results? The Agent in charge got promoted under Janet Reno and the Sniper did too.

In other words the FBI murdered two innocent civilians for no reason.

I think it is wrong they killed the two of them but there is alittle more to the story, Randy Weaver was no innocent either. Than there is Keven Harris, what a pillar of society! After Ruby Ridge Keven decided to go into the meth business up in Republic Washington.
On another note the Police or FBI line I guess in this point was right by parents friend's house, I remember thinking it was cool to see all the news trucks.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Except they were illegal. As the Court ruled in his trial. He was entrapped by the FBI. And none of the Agents were punished in anyway for killing a 14 year old boy and Mrs Weaver.

One could argue the boy fired first but there is NO defense of the wanton killing of an unarmed mother holding her child. The sniper fired at an UNARMED Randy Weaver. That is NOT allowed per FBI procedures EVER. Further NO FBI agent was even in the area of Weaver so they could not claim any Agent was even in danger. And both the Agent in charge and the Sniper were PROMOTED rather then PUNISHED.

Yeah, you missed my point. Whether or not Weaver was acquitted after the fact is irrelevant. If he had showed his ass up in court the first time, the bench warrant would never have been issued. Hence, no Ruby Ridge. He ingnored a court date. Simple as that.

As for the second statement. I'm not arguing that the incident was not screwed up from the get go. I fully agree that Lon Horiuchi(the sniper in which you refer) was an embecile that ignored the ROE and fired on unarmed civilians. He should have been sent to prison. He should have also been sent to prison for his actions at Waco, but that is neither here nor there. Fact is, Weaver ignored a perfectly legal summons to stand trial. The fact that teh US Marshall's showed up should not have been a surprise.

Killing the Dog was a provocative act. As I recall the guy did not even Identify himself.

The Marshals should have driven up to the house to issue the warrant to begin with and once the FBI took over they should have not taken the illegal actions they did. It was not JUST the sniper, his boss changed the ROE that allowed the sniper to fire to begin with, and BOTH were promoted by Janet Reno.

It was Government sanctioned murder. Which is the entire point of this thread. Clinton's Attorney General not only did nothing about those murders, she PROMOTED the men involved. And then she ORDERED the assault on the Waco Compound for no reason other then she was tired of the press. No one in the compound was a threat to anyone, in the 3 months of the siege no one tried to sneak out and no one fired on the FBI. There is some evidence the FBI was flying helicopters over the compound and firing into it though.

You do know that Ruby ridge went down during the Bush Administration right?

Also, you must be dense, because you are arguing something entirely irrelevent. So I am going to scream it at you.

I FUCKING AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE RAID ITSELF WAS A CLUSTERFUCK! THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE SHOT THE DOG OR THE BOY OR WEAVER OR HIS WIFE.

However, the warrant they were serving was legal, AT THE TIME. If Weaver had showed up to court, the incident would have never happened.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Janet Napolitano is just like Janet Reno. I expect a lot more innocent Americans to be killed under Obama in the name of 'justice'. She's already identified millions of people that could be a threat to national security.

What does Janet Reno have to do with this?

Nothing. She wasn't even in office for Ruby Ridge.

SHE PROMOTED them.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yeah, you missed my point. Whether or not Weaver was acquitted after the fact is irrelevant. If he had showed his ass up in court the first time, the bench warrant would never have been issued. Hence, no Ruby Ridge. He ingnored a court date. Simple as that.

As for the second statement. I'm not arguing that the incident was not screwed up from the get go. I fully agree that Lon Horiuchi(the sniper in which you refer) was an embecile that ignored the ROE and fired on unarmed civilians. He should have been sent to prison. He should have also been sent to prison for his actions at Waco, but that is neither here nor there. Fact is, Weaver ignored a perfectly legal summons to stand trial. The fact that teh US Marshall's showed up should not have been a surprise.

Killing the Dog was a provocative act. As I recall the guy did not even Identify himself.

The Marshals should have driven up to the house to issue the warrant to begin with and once the FBI took over they should have not taken the illegal actions they did. It was not JUST the sniper, his boss changed the ROE that allowed the sniper to fire to begin with, and BOTH were promoted by Janet Reno.

It was Government sanctioned murder. Which is the entire point of this thread. Clinton's Attorney General not only did nothing about those murders, she PROMOTED the men involved. And then she ORDERED the assault on the Waco Compound for no reason other then she was tired of the press. No one in the compound was a threat to anyone, in the 3 months of the siege no one tried to sneak out and no one fired on the FBI. There is some evidence the FBI was flying helicopters over the compound and firing into it though.

You do know that Ruby ridge went down during the Bush Administration right?

Also, you must be dense, because you are arguing something entirely irrelevent. So I am going to scream it at you.

I FUCKING AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE RAID ITSELF WAS A CLUSTERFUCK! THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE SHOT THE DOG OR THE BOY OR WEAVER OR HIS WIFE.

However, the warrant they were serving was legal, AT THE TIME. If Weaver had showed up to court, the incident would have never happened.

IT IS RELEVANT. The FBI ENTRAPPED HIM and then went after him when they knew they were in the wrong. It IS AN EXAMPLE of our supposed Federal servants NOT being the protector and good guy AT ALL. If they had killed him they would never have gone to court to be openly HUMILIATED.

AND AGAIN for the slow, RENO PROMOTED BOTH OF THEM.

 

[strollingbones]

Except they were illegal. As the Court ruled in his trial. He was entrapped by the FBI. And none of the Agents were punished in anyway for killing a 14 year old boy and Mrs Weaver.

One could argue the boy fired first but there is NO defense of the wanton killing of an unarmed mother holding her child. The sniper fired at an UNARMED Randy Weaver. That is NOT allowed per FBI procedures EVER. Further NO FBI agent was even in the area of Weaver so they could not claim any Agent was even in danger. And both the Agent in charge and the Sniper were PROMOTED rather then PUNISHED.

Yeah, you missed my point. Whether or not Weaver was acquitted after the fact is irrelevant. If he had showed his ass up in court the first time, the bench warrant would never have been issued. Hence, no Ruby Ridge. He ingnored a court date. Simple as that.

As for the second statement. I'm not arguing that the incident was not screwed up from the get go. I fully agree that Lon Horiuchi(the sniper in which you refer) was an embecile that ignored the ROE and fired on unarmed civilians. He should have been sent to prison. He should have also been sent to prison for his actions at Waco, but that is neither here nor there. Fact is, Weaver ignored a perfectly legal summons to stand trial. The fact that teh US Marshall's showed up should not have been a surprise.

Killing the Dog was a provocative act. As I recall the guy did not even Identify himself.

The Marshals should have driven up to the house to issue the warrant to begin with and once the FBI took over they should have not taken the illegal actions they did. It was not JUST the sniper, his boss changed the ROE that allowed the sniper to fire to begin with, and BOTH were promoted by Janet Reno.

It was Government sanctioned murder. Which is the entire point of this thread. Clinton's Attorney General not only did nothing about those murders, she PROMOTED the men involved. And then she ORDERED the assault on the Waco Compound for no reason other then she was tired of the press. No one in the compound was a threat to anyone, in the 3 months of the siege no one tried to sneak out and no one fired on the FBI. There is some evidence the FBI was flying helicopters over the compound and firing into it though.

i have to go with sgt on ruby ridge and waco...the bench warrent was a bullshit weapons charge...the first one...then the one for missing court....at ruby ridge the fbi closed off the weaver's property...you come on my land...you shot my fucking dog...shot my son...without idenitifcation? if it was above board they would have filmed it for their own protection..the fbi killed an innocent woman...

dont even get me started on waco.....

when did warrent serving involve massive fire power? why is billy graham's religionous area a "retreat" but waco was a "compound"