Zone1 A question for Jews

[surada]

Typical modern day Jew response. None of it happened even though there is a mountain of evidence historically.

But even as a practicing Jew, you can answer the questions:

Is Daniel‘s prophecy of the Son of Man a reference to a mere human, or is the Christ going to be also a divine Son of God?

Daniel is about Antiochus IV Epiphanies.

Daniel 8 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[surada]

So if Jesus wasn’t the Messiah, why did God abandon the Temple and allow its destruction?

Plenty of times God let humans/Jews fail and sent them into exile, but he always came back and made a new covenant with them to give them another chance. Yet after 2,000 years no temple?

God previously allowed their destruction when they turned away from God, and become Babylon-like. You never thought to think why this happened at the exact time as Jesus?

The Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus didn't do those things.

Revelation says there is no temple because Jesus is the temple.

Preterism

Preterism, a Christian eschatological view, interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have alre...

encyclopedia.pub

 

[theHawk]

The Messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews. Jesus didn't do those things.

Better provide proof of that. Quote the Torah where it says he will be a “warrior king”.

In reality the Torah foretold he would be a man of peace, that he would be rejected, and that he would be cut down before the destruction of the Second Temple.

 

[rosends]

Better provide proof of that. Quote the Torah where it says he will be a “warrior king”.

In reality the Torah foretold he would be a man of peace, that he would be rejected, and that he would be cut down before the destruction of the Second Temple.

No, that's in the Christian misinterpretation of the Nach.

 

[theHawk]

No, that's in the Christian misinterpretation of the Nach.

Provide the receipts then. But you never do.

 

[alang1216]

Provide the receipts then. But you never do.

Christians from the very beginning have cherry-picked and misinterpreted the Bible in support of the Gospels so you're in good company.

 

[theHawk]

Christians from the very beginning have cherry-picked and misinterpreted the Bible in support of the Gospels so you're in good company.

Yea funny how you anti-Christs keep saying that. Yet you can’t provide scriptures that prove otherwise.

 

[alang1216]

Yea funny how you anti-Christs keep saying that. Yet you can’t provide scriptures that prove otherwise.

So you want a list of what the Bible DOESN'T say? That is not how it works. The onus would be on you to support your position, if you could, which you can't, so you're better off just letting it drop, since you've already lost the debate.

 

[theHawk]

So you want a list of what the Bible DOESN'T say? That is not how it works. The onus would be on you to support your position, if you could, which you can't, so you're better off just letting it drop, since you've already lost the debate.

I already provided the receipts in my other thread.

No, these guys are saying the messiah is supposed to be a “warrior” who will unite the world by force. Yet they can’t back up this claim.

 

[ding]

All religions have Holy Books that say they're the OneTrueReligion.

You would be hard pressed to prove that statement.

 

[ding]

these guys are saying the messiah is supposed to be a “warrior” who will unite the world by force.

I doubt that's what they are claiming. I don't think they believed the ancient Hebrews thought their Messiah would unite the world. The ancient Hebrews thought he would unite Israel. They were expecting another David. At least that's my understanding of the Jewish belief on the messiah.

 

[bodecea]

Man

Paul turned Jesus into the son of a god and a female human, just like the Greek and other myths at the time.

Hercules was one of them.

Saul/Paul was just like L. Ron Hubbard, or Muhammed, or Joseph Smith.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

Num 23:19 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"

Psa 146:3 "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help."

Eze 2:1 "And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee."

Ezekiel is called the son of man by God dozens of times. Was Ezekiel a divine being? Was Ezekiel the Messiah?

 

[alang1216]

No, these guys are saying the messiah is supposed to be a “warrior” who will unite the world by force. Yet they can’t back up this claim.

Surprising since it is an easy claim to support:

Messiah #1: Military Leader
The idea that the Messiah was to be a great warrior is not only present in the Dead Sea scrolls. It can also be found in several Aramaic translations (targums) of the Bible, such as the following rendering of the Song of Hannah.

The Lord shall shatter the adversaries who arose to do evil to His people; He shall blast them with a loud noise issuing from heaven. The Lord shall exact punishment from [the proverbial northern enemy] Gog and from the marauding armies of the nations who come with him from the ends of the earth. He shall give strength to His king and shall make great the kingdom of His Messiah.​

Cyrus the Messiah? The Historical Background to Isaiah 45:1​

According to Isaiah 45:1, Cyrus is YHWH's anointed, his Messiah: Thus says YHWH to his anointed, to Cyrus whom I took by his right hand.

 

[Woodznutz]

Sure. All religions have Holy Books that say they're the OneTrueReligion. Your Holy Book isn't special in that regard.

The Bible is God's revelation to Israel, others notwithstanding.

 

[theHawk]

Surprising since it is an easy claim to support:

Messiah #1: Military Leader
The idea that the Messiah was to be a great warrior is not only present in the Dead Sea scrolls. It can also be found in several Aramaic translations (targums) of the Bible, such as the following rendering of the Song of Hannah.

The Lord shall shatter the adversaries who arose to do evil to His people; He shall blast them with a loud noise issuing from heaven. The Lord shall exact punishment from [the proverbial northern enemy] Gog and from the marauding armies of the nations who come with him from the ends of the earth. He shall give strength to His king and shall make great the kingdom of His Messiah.​

Cyrus the Messiah? The Historical Background to Isaiah 45:1​

According to Isaiah 45:1, Cyrus is YHWH's anointed, his Messiah: Thus says YHWH to his anointed, to Cyrus whom I took by his right hand.

None of that says the Messiah will be a normal man who is a warrior.

 

[alang1216]

None of that says the Messiah will be a normal man who is a warrior.

Was Cyrus a god? Did he die for anyone's sins? Was he hanged on a tree? No, he was an anointed liberator of the Jewish people, just what the Jews expected their messiah to be.

 

[rosends]

Provide the receipts then. But you never do.

What receipts? I can show you every instance of the mention of any anointed person. None says he will be divine, none says he will be rejected, or need a second coming. I can show you references to an end of days when things will happen that are tied interpretively to the arrival of a future Messiah. It is amazing how Christians piggy back on rabbinic interpretations and then decide to abandon any rabbinic Jewish ideas when are no longer useful.

 

[surada]

Better provide proof of that. Quote the Torah where it says he will be a “warrior king”.

In reality the Torah foretold he would be a man of peace, that he would be rejected, and that he would be cut down before the destruction of the Second Temple.

Like king David.

 

[surada]

Better provide proof of that. Quote the Torah where it says he will be a “warrior king”.

In reality the Torah foretold he would be a man of peace, that he would be rejected, and that he would be cut down before the destruction of the Second Temple.

Like King David??

King David: The Rise of the Warrior King - Biblical Warfare

A survey of the life of King David from a military and political perspective. Explore little-known details on the rise of this warrior king.

www.biblicalwarfare.com