A philosophical question of sorts regarding personhood..

[jan]

see now does jan exist?

Probably not for much longer on this board!

 

[JBeukema]

You seem to be making the invalid presumption that Scientists don't believe in a Higher Power.

1) I did not say such a thing
2) You're evading the question
3)has no bearing on the matter being discussed

I would submit that most scientists in history have indeed believed in God.

Religion becomes increasingly rare among the most elite scientific minds

Science and God aren't mutually exclusive like you seem to want to believe.

*yawn*

You're not addressing the points made OR addressing the OP; if you want to start such a moronic train of non-thought as denying that the mindset of science that that of religion are mutually exclusive ideologies and approaches, you can do that elsewhere

Again, you seem to be stuck in the mindset of exclusivity. You really need to broaden your mind a bit to incorporate more options in life.

So you admit that there has not been such a war, unlike the many fought over religion? I accept your admission of defeat and your apology for bringing your drivel into this thread.

No, back to the OP

 

[jan]

You seem to be making the invalid presumption that Scientists don't believe in a Higher Power.

1) I did not say such a thing
2) You're evading the question
3)has no bearing on the matter being discussed

I would submit that most scientists in history have indeed believed in God.

Religion becomes increasingly rare among the most elite scientific minds

Science and God aren't mutually exclusive like you seem to want to believe.

*yawn*

You're not addressing the points made OR addressing the OP; if you want to start such a moronic train of non-thought as denying that the mindset of science that that of religion are mutually exclusive ideologies and approaches, you can do that elsewhere

Again, you seem to be stuck in the mindset of exclusivity. You really need to broaden your mind a bit to incorporate more options in life.

So you admit that there has not been such a war, unlike the many fought over religion? I accept your admission of defeat and your apology for bringing your drivel into this thread.

No, back to the OP

I give...think what you will! Peace!

 

[editec]

Which is why science brings progress and religion brings genocide, hatred, intolerance, and anti-intellectualism?

Science is not without blame, afterall it was science that invented the hydrogen bomb.

Science invents most of the weapons used in war.

how many wars have been declared by science? Now, now much human blood has been spilled over religion?

Religion that is often the EXCUSE used to go to war.

Economics is the actual reason nations typically go to war.

How many times have those who use the mathematics of Newton gone to war against and slain those who use the equations of Einstein?

Once, and the Japs lost because of it.

No, if you're done making a fool of yourself, we shall await the arrival of intelligent persons who wish to discuss the OP

ACtually you are the damned fool if you think religion or social philosophies are the real reason mankind typically goes to war.

Those are the tools that the masters use to rally people around the flag, of course, but the MOTIVE is never about any religion but MAMMON.

 

[midcan5]

"It is simply a fact that ordinary people are, at any time, aware of having several different experiences... Just as there can be a single memory of having had several experiences, such as having heard a bell strike three times, there can be a single state of awareness both of hearing the fourth striking of this bell, and of seeing, at the same time, ravens flying past the bell-tower." Derek Parfit

Why go so far as serious brain damage if you want to get into personhood/soul. How about paranoid people, or compulsive people, paranoid schizophrenics how do we view their person as they change from sane to crazy. Or Alzheimer's disease. Even depression can make the same person into another for the sake of argument. I am assuming you are trying to make a point. For people of faith these issues are human issues, they require human solutions. Let he without sin cast the first stone - let she without growth maturity age education and a little nuttiness be canonized Saint.

I am therefore I think - to change Decartes attempt at certainty. 'I' too change. It is why I like Dennett, he stays in the process not the more static exceptions. Parfit too is a favorite and discusses your example below. Who are we.

"He notes that one could insist: there is not just one person in these cases; there are two people in the same body. Some psychologists argue that there is just one person; Parfit argues that in a sense, there are none."

Notes on Derek Parfit

Two in one body, so here we have genuine twoness in one. lol Do we.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiSuyuOOBR8]YouTube - Siamese Twin Girls[/ame]

 

[Polaris]

Beyond Belief: Science, Reason, Religion & Survival > Session 4

Fast-forward to ~45:00

I forward his question, which I paraphrase here:

A patient had the connection severed between the hemispheres of the brain. Each hemisphere operated (m,ore or less) independently of the other, ans they were able to communicate w/ each as a separate 'person'. Now, is each hemisphere, apparently with its own consciousness, a separate and distinct 'person'? If so, is each one half of the original person- does the original person cease to exist as these two new persons come to be?

discuss...

I'd say the question is based on the erroneous assumption that a person exists as unique thing with an immutable identity(soul?).


Assuming that every change to the brain creates a person slightly different than what it was before, I'd say people are EVENTS, more than individuals with a permanent personality.

Who among is is really the same person we were ten or twenty years ago?

In fact, if we know anyone who is the same person they were ten or twenty years ago, we probably think of those people as retarded or soemthing, don't we?

This is an excellent point, and should help frame further discussion on this thread.

And JB... some advice. Too often on the board, you're reflexively, and unnecessarily, hostile. It results in the direction this thread has taken, into bickering over side issues. It's too bad, for the sake of the discussion, that you don't have more patience.

 

[Al Gunn]

Beyond Belief: Science, Reason, Religion & Survival > Session 4

Fast-forward to ~45:00

I forward his question, which I paraphrase here:

A patient had the connection severed between the hemispheres of the brain. Each hemisphere operated (m,ore or less) independently of the other, ans they were able to communicate w/ each as a separate 'person'. Now, is each hemisphere, apparently with its own consciousness, a separate and distinct 'person'? If so, is each one half of the original person- does the original person cease to exist as these two new persons come to be?

discuss...

I'd say the question is based on the erroneous assumption that a person exists as unique thing with an immutable identity(soul?).


Assuming that every change to the brain creates a person slightly different than what it was before, I'd say people are EVENTS, more than individuals with a permanent personality.

Who among is is really the same person we were ten or twenty years ago?

In fact, if we know anyone who is the same person they were ten or twenty years ago, we probably think of those people as retarded or soemthing, don't we?

This is an excellent point, and should help frame further discussion on this thread.

And JB... some advice. Too often on the board, you're reflexively, and unnecessarily, hostile. It results in the direction this thread has taken, into bickering over side issues. It's too bad, for the sake of the discussion, that you don't have more patience.

It's his drinking that's the prob.

 

[JBeukema]

Religion that is often the EXCUSE used to go to war.

Economics is the actual reason nations typically go to war.

greed is why the leader declare war

the men who fight did so for their god

How many times have those who use the mathematics of Newton gone to war against and slain those who use the equations of Einstein?

Once, and the Japs lost because of it.

smartass

 

[Newby]

but ed has a good point...why are there people who have overcome the "god gene"

Perhaps they've devolved rather than evolved?

In other words...maybe they didn't "overcome", but rather they haven't arrived in the first place.

Which is why science brings progress and religion brings genocide, hatred, intolerance, and anti-intellectualism?

Now, if you're done being an idiot- back to the matter at hand, the questions asked in the OP

Science isn't responsible for weapons both small and those capable of mass destruction? Science didn't enable Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Science didn't create the gun? the sword?

 

[JBeukema]

So, iI point out that religion was the cause for bloodshed, and your only defense or refutation is that they turned to science to learn how to give themselves an advantage and kill more effectively?

 

[Newby]

So, iI point out that religion was the cause for bloodshed, and your only defense or refutation is that they turned to science to learn how to give themselves an advantage and kill more effectively?

So, you're attributing all war, death and mayhem to religion?

 

[JBeukema]

yet another strawman


Newby, you used to only be thought a fool...

 

[Newby]

yet another strawman


Newby, you used to only be thought a fool...

So, when you can't answer the question you resort to personal insults and negative reps. Real classy and mature, but I really don't expect anything more from someone like you.

 

[Newby]

So, iI point out that religion was the cause for bloodshed, and your only defense or refutation is that they turned to science to learn how to give themselves an advantage and kill more effectively?

And you talk about strawmen and intellectual dishonesty, where did I try to 'defend' or 'refute' anything at all, let alone say that it was my 'only defense and refutation'? And who is 'they'? 'They' turned to science to learn how to give themselves an advantage? Who is 'they'? All religious people? You don't even have the intelligence to recognize the irony in how your own statements contain exactly that which you accuse others of. It also shows a blatant lack of critical thinking skills on your part to make blanket statements regarding all religions to begin with, to imply that science and religion are totally separate, or that religion is the cause for all evil in the world. Your constant beating on religion shows a certain amount of mental instability and an inferiority complex that you also obviously have issues with. Get some help.

 

[JBeukema]

t it was my 'only defense and refutation'?

So you admit that you've offered no counterpoints or refutations amongst your idiotic strawmen.

to imply... that religion is the cause for all evil in the world

Still repeating your idiotic strawmen

Now, take your moronic drivel elsewhere, as you're clearly too stupid to address the OP or any other matter intelligently

 

[Newby]

t it was my 'only defense and refutation'?

So you admit that you've offered no counterpoints or refutations amongst your idiotic strawmen.

to imply... that religion is the cause for all evil in the world

Still repeating your idiotic strawmen

Now, take your moronic drivel elsewhere, as you're clearly too stupid to address the OP or any other matter intelligently

You wouldn't recognize an intelligent conversation if it came up and kicked you in the balls, if you had any that is. And I'll post when and where I please. Typical over inflated egotistical asshole that thinks he can tell everyone else what they can or cannot do. You represent your kind well.

 

[JBeukema]

Fuck you asshole, I can play this game

Get your moronic bullshit out of my thread


Now, do any of the smart people care to address the OP?

 

[Newby]

Fuck you asshole, I can play this game

Get your moronic bullshit out of my thread


Now, do any of the smart people care to address the OP?

Why not put the whole thing on there, and then I can do the same. Who started it, asshole? Want to put the time stamps on too?