A Petition to Stop Divorce?

[Cecilie1200]

I'm with you on this one Dis.

If you ask my girls today they will tell you "Thank you for getting a Divorce, you were giving me a headache" lol

No, seriously. Its not healthy for children to watch their parents fight. When I think back to my parent's fighting.....it's a fear I will never forget (I was also an only child and had no one to share the trauma with).

My girls are not spoiled or self-indulgent. They are lovely beautiful women and my getting divorced was a healthy move for my children.

No, seriously, what were you doing fighting in front of your children?

Your girls might not be spoiled and self-indulgent, but it sounds like you might have been.

 

[Cecilie1200]

ITA Make it harder. No more of this 'I don't feel in love' crap. Marriage has little to do with 'being in love' and everything to do with commitment. Love isn't feeling all fuzzy all the time. It's hard work and at times looking the other way when their little thing pisses you off again. Heck the way my husband brushes his teeth drives me nuts. Don't know why but it does... I don't join him to brush mine anymore.

Benjamin Franklin:

"Keep thy eyes wide open before marriage, and half-shut afterwards."

Exactly.

Maybe if it were harder for people to wander away from the responsibilities and people they created in order to find "self-fulfillment", they might put at least as much thought into their choice of marriage partner as they do into their choice of movie rental at Blockbuster.

 

[pegwinn]

If it were as hard to get married as it is to get divorced, I bet that marriages in general would be stronger.

And, the .gov has no business involving itself in marriage. It is just another intrusion into your private life.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I did a lot of divorces for people over the course of my practice. And I can tell you, without exception, the kids were better off AFTER the divorce than before.

Kids only do badly in divorce if their parents handle the divorce itself without thinking about their kids' welfare and use the kids against each other.

People need to worry about what works for them and not worry so much about what works for other people.

Whenever I hear "the kids were better off after my divorce", it makes me wonder what kind of crap parent that person is. I'm completely serious. Why in the HELL are your children that aware of YOUR private life that they're traumatized by it?

And it's funny how so many psychiatrists and psychiatric studies are disagreeing with this little "truism" these days. One of the most famous studies on this subject was conducted by Judith Wallerstein, who followed a group of children whose parents were getting divorced in the 1970s for 25 years.

According to her, “If the truth be told, and if we are able to face it, the history of divorce in our society is replete with unwarranted assumptions that adults have made about children simply because such assumptions are congenial to adult needs and wishes. The myths that continue to guide our divorce policies and politics today stem from these direct attitudes.”

 

[Cecilie1200]

Heh, nobody even looked to what group started the petition?

Doesn't matter to me. It's a silly idea that you can simply outlaw marriage, because there ARE occasions when it's necessary. Like I said, even the Bible allows for it in certain instances.

We haven't done ourselves any favors by making marriage easier to get out of than a book club membership, though.

 

[jillian]

Whenever I hear "the kids were better off after my divorce", it makes me wonder what kind of crap parent that person is. I'm completely serious. Why in the HELL are your children that aware of YOUR private life that they're traumatized by it?

And it's funny how so many psychiatrists and psychiatric studies are disagreeing with this little "truism" these days. One of the most famous studies on this subject was conducted by Judith Wallerstein, who followed a group of children whose parents were getting divorced in the 1970s for 25 years.

According to her, “If the truth be told, and if we are able to face it, the history of divorce in our society is replete with unwarranted assumptions that adults have made about children simply because such assumptions are congenial to adult needs and wishes. The myths that continue to guide our divorce policies and politics today stem from these direct attitudes.”

Where did you ever get the idea that parents are supposed to pretend to like each other if they don't? What a sad and absurd way to live ones life.

And I'm familiar with Wallerstein. And what I referenced in my initial post was EXACTLY the limitation in Wallerstein's own research.

the most important limitation of Wallerstein's research, however, particularly as it relates to those of you who are struggling with a high-conflict marriage, is what she did not study. She did not study -- in fact she could not study -- whether the effects she studied flowed from the divorce itself or from the conflict that caused the divorce.

And that's where the misinterpretation comes in. Wallerstein's research has already been cited, and I'm sure it will be cited more now after the release of her latest installment in June of 1997, as grounds for making divorce more difficult to get. Those seeking to require waiting periods, pre-divorce counseling, parent education, and proof of fault in divorce have all have used Wallerstein's research as evidence that divorce is the problem, and if we can just stop people from divorcing, we'll correct the problem.

Judith Wallerstein

Apparently, though, your misinterpretation of Wallerstein's work is a common one.

Ultmately, I stand by my initial point... which is that it is difficult enough for most people to govern themselves and they really should leave it to others to make their own judgments....

particularly when, as you can see, they ignore the limitations of their own conclusions.

 

[GigiBowman]

No, seriously, what were you doing fighting in front of your children?

Your girls might not be spoiled and self-indulgent, but it sounds like you might have been.

I was married to a fucking nazi. Ask him what he was doing fighting in front of the children. Who are you to judge anyone else I might ask?

 

[GigiBowman]

Exactly.

Maybe if it were harder for people to wander away from the responsibilities and people they created in order to find "self-fulfillment", they might put at least as much thought into their choice of marriage partner as they do into their choice of movie rental at Blockbuster.

Oh, yes, maybe it's better to stay longer than 12 years with a man who starts out all sweet and kind and then turns into a controlling jealous insane man who calls you fat, ugly, stupid, locks you in the house, comes after you and pulls you back in by the hair when you try to go out and smothers you with pillows and twist your arm behind your back while covering your mouth and nose with his other hand on a daily basis. Yeah, maybe I should have TRIED HARDER to have a RELATIONSHIP with this insane man!

I guess I WANDERED AWAY from my responsibilities when I finally got up the "balls" to take my three daughters and LEAVE. Don't tell me I didn't go to church every Sunday and pray to God to make it through another week. 12 years. 12 freaking years is TRYING enough.

So dont' go around judging other people and their marriages. Maybe some don't try but maybe other's finally get enough strength to realize that this is UNHEALTHY for you and your kids and you better stop trying.

You have some fucking nerve with your "Find self fulfillment". How about SELF PRESERVATION!

I try to make light of life and find humor in everything and laugh and have fun...but it's judgemental people like you that PISS ME OFF

 

[chloe]

Doesn't matter to me. It's a silly idea that you can simply outlaw marriage, because there ARE occasions when it's necessary. Like I said, even the Bible allows for it in certain instances.

We haven't done ourselves any favors by making marriage easier to get out of than a book club membership, though.

heh I didn't have kids in my 1st marriage, the petition is from a gay & lesbian group who were mad about Proposition 8.

 

[editec]

Prohibiting divorce between heterosexual married couples will keep the interests of children and families intact. We will continue to celebrate marriage as the union of husband and wife, not as a relationship between "Party A" and "Party B."

We will continue to CELEBRATE marriage?

I don't know about that.

I've seen one or two marriages that were anything but celebratory.

 

[glockmail]

Someone told me there is a petition floating around in California to stop Divorce. ....

Nothing more than the Gay Marriage advocates trying to create an issue. It's bullshit.

 

[chloe]

Oh, yes, maybe it's better to stay longer than 12 years with a man who starts out all sweet and kind and then turns into a controlling jealous insane man who calls you fat, ugly, stupid, locks you in the house, comes after you and pulls you back in by the hair when you try to go out and smothers you with pillows and twist your arm behind your back while covering your mouth and nose with his other hand on a daily basis. Yeah, maybe I should have TRIED HARDER to have a RELATIONSHIP with this insane man!

I guess I WANDERED AWAY from my responsibilities when I finally got up the "balls" to take my three daughters and LEAVE. Don't tell me I didn't go to church every Sunday and pray to God to make it through another week. 12 years. 12 freaking years is TRYING enough.

So dont' go around judging other people and their marriages. Maybe some don't try but maybe other's finally get enough strength to realize that this is UNHEALTHY for you and your kids and you better stop trying.

You have some fucking nerve with your "Find self fulfillment". How about SELF PRESERVATION!

I try to make light of life and find humor in everything and laugh and have fun...but it's judgemental people like you that PISS ME OFF

Yeah my 1st husband was very sweet at first and I stayed a long time too, even when he bashed my head into the wall, kick me, punch me, strangle me spit on me, etc etc.....I was only 16 and pretty naive.

 

[glockmail]

Yeah my 1st husband was very sweet at first and I stayed a long time too, even when he bashed my head into the wall, kick me, punch me, strangle me spit on me, etc etc.....I was only 16 and pretty naive.

Sounds like a real sweetie. I'd like to invite him down to the Yadkin some Friday night so we can see just what kind of man he is.

 

[chloe]

You wouldn't because he is Crazy, even though I did eventually leave him every year on my birthday he calls my mothers house and leaves a message for me on her voice mail. He used to say if I left him and he finds me he will kill me because if he can't have me nobody can. He is really SCARY.......even my real dad was scared of him.

 

[glockmail]

Honey, by the time us real men get done with him you'll never have to worry about him ag'in.

 

[chloe]

heh, Im skeptical.....believe me he is a Psycho ( like Robert DeNiro in Cape Fear) but anyway back to topic, I divorced him. Thank goodness we never had kids together.

 

[glockmail]

The Cape Fear River is also in North Carolina. DeNiro wouldn't have survived under my truck on that trip.

Anyway, its always been my experience that guys that treat a gal that way are always cowards when toe-to-toe against someone their own size.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Where did you ever get the idea that parents are supposed to pretend to like each other if they don't? What a sad and absurd way to live ones life.

I didn't say anything about "pretend to like each other", sweet cheeks. You're still acting like I think their emotional fuzzies are important. I said they should behave like rational, civilized adults who recognize that when you make a small human being who is dependent upon you, your bliss with the universe takes a backseat.

I hate to break it to you, but marriage is NOT about "emotional fulfillment". That other adult is your business partner, your co-worker, your team mate that you work with to get shit done in life. If you can sit on your distaste for the guy in the next cubicle every day of your working life and be polite to him in order to keep a job, then you can DAMNED well maintain a civil working relationship with the person you made a baby with.

I'm not saying you have to play huggy-smoochy-face for the kiddies, because I can promise you they don't care. I AM saying that if you can refrain from screaming invective at your dipwad supervisor and put in the effort to find calm, diplomatic ways to get your job done, then you can take your spouse aside into the bedroom and discuss your problems in the same tone of voice, instead of shrieking at each other in front of God and everyone in a glorious display of childish self-indulgence.

Apparently, though, your misinterpretation of Wallerstein's work is a common one.

Yeah, that direct quote from Wallerstein herself certainly shows that I "misinterpreted" her work.

Ultmately, I stand by my initial point... which is that it is difficult enough for most people to govern themselves and they really should leave it to others to make their own judgments....

Horse hockey. People govern themselves all the time in every other aspect of their daily lives, but somehow, they suddenly revert to wailing babies with dirty diapers when it comes to their marriages?

You'll excuse me if I point out that you seem to have a vested interest in people treating their marriages like disposable napkins, what with your professional life being tied up in divorce and all.

particularly when, as you can see, they ignore the limitations of their own conclusions.

Only "limitation" I can see to those conclusions is the fact that you might be taking a pay cut if more people grow the hell up.

 

[Dis]

No, seriously, what were you doing fighting in front of your children?

Your girls might not be spoiled and self-indulgent, but it sounds like you might have been.

You know..you've really got some fucking nerve.

Who the hell are you to judge people you don't know, and know nothing about?

When you live someone elses life, THEN you can open your face.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I was married to a fucking nazi. Ask him what he was doing fighting in front of the children. Who are you to judge anyone else I might ask?

Clearly, someone with more objectivity than you. And may I point out that if you don't want people making observations and comments on your personal life, you shouldn't be spewing it out on a public message board for everyone to pick through?

So, since you DID upend your purse on the table for everyone to see, metaphorically speaking, let's catalog what we have here.

Your parents were, by your own admission, emotional adolescents who refused to exercise self-restraint in their relationship and invited their children into it by shrieking at each other like fishwives, and then dealt the final blow to the family they had already sacrificed to their own selfishness by wandering off in opposite directions.

Subsequently, you grew up, married a "Nazi" who exhibited the exact same pathology as your parents, and repeated the cycle that had been modeled for you.

On the other hand, my parents were married to each other for over forty years. I sincerely doubt it was any grand, passionate thing, but they were always polite and respectful in front of us. I never heard either of them say a derogatory word about the other. I'm sure they had problems, because I saw them go into the bedroom to have discussions about them, but I never had any idea what those problems were, and I never cared, because I was secure in the knowledge that my parents were handling it.

I grew up and married a man whose parents also taught him to discuss problems quietly and in private, and to always present a united front to the rest of the world, and we continue that model for our children. I note in passing that since marrying him, I have also learned to deal with other people with much more patience and diplomacy (message boards notwithstanding).

Tell me again how wrong I am that my method is better.