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A Pandemic of the Unvaccinated? Maybe not.

colfax_m

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It's a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
1631285302720.png
 

EvMetro

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No, it is.

Sorry you went to all that trouble for nothing.
Glad to see you are not disputing the information in the opening post.
 
OP
task0778

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None of the vaccines are 95% affective. Moderna is 81% and Pfizer is 79%. So, to say that the vaxxed only make up 5% of everyone infected, is bullshit.

And if I'm not mistaken, those numbers decline after a few months. They also are not so good at protecting people from COVID variants either.
 

colfax_m

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And if I'm not mistaken, those numbers decline after a few months. They also are not so good at protecting people from COVID variants either.
States that are highly vaccinated are doing far better than those states with lower vaccination rates.


1631285831849.png
 

Wild Bill Kelsoe

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Can you explain what this "lie" is? Very interested to hear.
The people who are unvaxxed didn't cause the Delta variant. The Delta variant was coming, no matter what. Anyone who thinks covid is going away is a moron.
 

colfax_m

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The people who are unvaxxed didn't cause the Delta variant. The Delta variant was coming, no matter what. Anyone who thinks covid is going away is a moron.
This statement is interesting, but also not really a response to what I posted.

The delta variant did in deed come from the unvaccinated, although it's not their fault. The delta variant emerged from India as COVID swept through that population last winter. That population was almost entirely unvaccinated. It's the exact outcome you'd expect from a virus evolving to be better able to spread quickly and efficiently.

At this point, the delta variant is affecting the unvaccinated far more than the vaccinated. That much is perfectly clear from the data and that is what it means that it's a "pandemic of the unvaccinated".
 

bendog

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No, it is.

Sorry you went to all that trouble for nothing.
Well it's a desperate attempt to defend the science denier anti-vaccers. The OP link itself reveals the falsity of his OP. No one denies the original vaccine is less effective in preventing infections of the Delta variant than with the virus the vaccines were designed for. But if you're vaccinated, your chances of dying from the Delta variant are roughly on the same par as dying in a car wreck.
 
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Wild Bill Kelsoe

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This statement is interesting, but also not really a response to what I posted.

The delta variant did in deed come from the unvaccinated, although it's not their fault. The delta variant emerged from India as COVID swept through that population last winter. That population was almost entirely unvaccinated. It's the exact outcome you'd expect from a virus evolving to be better able to spread quickly and efficiently.

At this point, the delta variant is affecting the unvaccinated far more than the vaccinated. That much is perfectly clear from the data and that is what it means that it's a "pandemic of the unvaccinated".
Israel is one of the most vaxxed countries and Delta blew their socks off. Explain that.
 

Care4all

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This was written a few days ago, so it's fairly currrent:

A popular catchphrase this past summer is that COVID is, “a pandemic among the unvaccinated.” President Biden told this to America on August 18. Joe was late to the party as CDC Director Rochelle Walensky warned of this a month earlier. Big media parroted this catchy slogan with little question. Is it true? Is it based on science or simply a push to scare and shame the unvaccinated into taking the vaccine?

By simply perusing the news, one can draw a far different conclusion, that we are instead seeing a “pandemic of the vaccinated.” In Israel, “One of the most vaccinated countries in the world has this week seen its highest number of coronavirus cases ever.” And these cases are not mild. Instead, a majority of hospitalized patients are in serious condition with close to 15 percent on ventilators. In a country with over 80 percent of adults vaccinated, this is clearly not a “pandemic of the unvaccinated.” Instead, it's the opposite, going from the model of how to manage the coronavirus to the global hot spot.


[WTF?]

It is not just Israel. The Washington Post asks, “Iceland has been a vaccination success. Why is it seeing a coronavirus surge?” And this phenomenon has not eluded America.

Cornell University, my alma mater, also has a “pandemic of the vaccinated.” The College Fix reports, “Despite 95% vaccination rate, Cornell today has five times more COVID cases than it did this time last year.” Which leads to obvious questions about vaccine efficacy.


This catchphrase may have originated with another statistic making the rounds in America, also with little scrutiny by the media or medical establishment. This is the assertion that, “95% of people currently hospitalized for COVID-19 are unvaccinated.”
.

.
About that 95 percent number, the fact-checkers say yes, it is true. Does anyone fact-check the fact-checkers? Let’s take a closer look at this figure.

Either missed or ignored by the “fact-checkers” is that this 95 percent number is not based on what is happening now or in the past few months, but includes data going back to January and ending months ago, a biased data set. The Kaiser Family Foundation published a chart, listing each state, reporting vaccination and hospitalization data beginning anywhere from mid-December or mid-January through anywhere from May through July. These are not “current” real-time numbers.

First vaccinations began in mid- to late-December, and those were few. I, as one of the few, receiving my first dose before Christmas. The CDC definition of fully vaccinated includes those at least two weeks beyond their recommended one or two doses, depending on which vaccine.

By this definition, less than 1 percent of individuals would be “fully vaccinated” by the end of January when states began tracking breakthrough infections. But the clock was already ticking and the only people hospitalized had to be unvaccinated, beginning to skew the data.

Why is this important? No one was fully vaccinated when reporting began and every hospitalization in January would be classified as “unvaccinated.”

Then coincidently, or not, the CDC stopped counting breakthrough cases among the vaccinated in mid-May, a time when only a third of Americans were fully vaccinated.

As reported by Politico,

The agency said in May that it would stop routinely tracking so-called breakthrough infections that didn't lead to hospitalization or death. Several states then stopped tracking mild breakthrough cases, and at least two states told POLITICO they are having trouble reliably tracking infections in vaccinated people.

Mild cases can become severe. If not tracking them, such progression will be missed, and not recorded. A medical internship axiom is, “If you don’t check a temperature, you can’t find a fever.” The CDC version is if you don’t count hospitalizations of the vaccinated, you won’t find any cases.


[So I should trust the CDC and believe what they tell me?]

The 95 percent metric is falsely high because when the data were collected, few were vaccinated and, by necessity, the majority of those hospitalized were unvaccinated. Then breakthrough cases were no longer counted, yet states continued to collect data for another month or two. If breakthrough cases were being ignored, then only unvaccinated cases were counted, falsely creating that 95 percent figure.

A Detroit newspaper headline screamed, “98% of Michigan COVID-19 cases are from unvaccinated” yet buried in the article is the measurement period, “between Jan 15 and July 21.” There is no discussion of the fact that during the measurement period, most Michiganders had not yet been vaccinated and most of those hospitalized during that time period were by default unvaccinated. Were they even recording breakthrough cases after mid-May when the CDC stopped counting?

.

.
The problem is when data are cherry-picked to present a pre-determined narrative. That is when science turns into propaganda. As the Seattle Times noted of the 95 percent figure, a “misguided and dangerous statement.” Going further saying, “But it’s not that simple and to oversimplify by calling it a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated’ will only make the problem worse.”


Vaccine hesitancy does not lie along political divisions. Interestingly blacks, Hispanics, and those with Ph.D.s are among the most vaccine-hesitant. When people see the vaccinated getting sick and dying around the world, there is hesitancy. When we were told that vaccination is the path to a return to normalcy, and instead we are going back to last year, there is hesitancy.



Just about everything is politicized these days. Who the hell can we trust? Certainly not anyone in gov't, including the CDC. They've said one thing, then walked it back and said something else, and then changed back. The Media? Please. They're not paid to tell the truth, they're paid to sell papers and get clicks. You read something and then a day later you find out it's bullshit. However, we certainly do have a pandemic; but it's a pandemic of distrust, where truth and integrity are rare and getting more and more scarce.
Some good, more recent info.

 

Independentthinker

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This was written a few days ago, so it's fairly currrent:

A popular catchphrase this past summer is that COVID is, “a pandemic among the unvaccinated.” President Biden told this to America on August 18. Joe was late to the party as CDC Director Rochelle Walensky warned of this a month earlier. Big media parroted this catchy slogan with little question. Is it true? Is it based on science or simply a push to scare and shame the unvaccinated into taking the vaccine?

By simply perusing the news, one can draw a far different conclusion, that we are instead seeing a “pandemic of the vaccinated.” In Israel, “One of the most vaccinated countries in the world has this week seen its highest number of coronavirus cases ever.” And these cases are not mild. Instead, a majority of hospitalized patients are in serious condition with close to 15 percent on ventilators. In a country with over 80 percent of adults vaccinated, this is clearly not a “pandemic of the unvaccinated.” Instead, it's the opposite, going from the model of how to manage the coronavirus to the global hot spot.


[WTF?]

It is not just Israel. The Washington Post asks, “Iceland has been a vaccination success. Why is it seeing a coronavirus surge?” And this phenomenon has not eluded America.

Cornell University, my alma mater, also has a “pandemic of the vaccinated.” The College Fix reports, “Despite 95% vaccination rate, Cornell today has five times more COVID cases than it did this time last year.” Which leads to obvious questions about vaccine efficacy.


This catchphrase may have originated with another statistic making the rounds in America, also with little scrutiny by the media or medical establishment. This is the assertion that, “95% of people currently hospitalized for COVID-19 are unvaccinated.”
.

.
About that 95 percent number, the fact-checkers say yes, it is true. Does anyone fact-check the fact-checkers? Let’s take a closer look at this figure.

Either missed or ignored by the “fact-checkers” is that this 95 percent number is not based on what is happening now or in the past few months, but includes data going back to January and ending months ago, a biased data set. The Kaiser Family Foundation published a chart, listing each state, reporting vaccination and hospitalization data beginning anywhere from mid-December or mid-January through anywhere from May through July. These are not “current” real-time numbers.

First vaccinations began in mid- to late-December, and those were few. I, as one of the few, receiving my first dose before Christmas. The CDC definition of fully vaccinated includes those at least two weeks beyond their recommended one or two doses, depending on which vaccine.

By this definition, less than 1 percent of individuals would be “fully vaccinated” by the end of January when states began tracking breakthrough infections. But the clock was already ticking and the only people hospitalized had to be unvaccinated, beginning to skew the data.

Why is this important? No one was fully vaccinated when reporting began and every hospitalization in January would be classified as “unvaccinated.”

Then coincidently, or not, the CDC stopped counting breakthrough cases among the vaccinated in mid-May, a time when only a third of Americans were fully vaccinated.

As reported by Politico,

The agency said in May that it would stop routinely tracking so-called breakthrough infections that didn't lead to hospitalization or death. Several states then stopped tracking mild breakthrough cases, and at least two states told POLITICO they are having trouble reliably tracking infections in vaccinated people.

Mild cases can become severe. If not tracking them, such progression will be missed, and not recorded. A medical internship axiom is, “If you don’t check a temperature, you can’t find a fever.” The CDC version is if you don’t count hospitalizations of the vaccinated, you won’t find any cases.


[So I should trust the CDC and believe what they tell me?]

The 95 percent metric is falsely high because when the data were collected, few were vaccinated and, by necessity, the majority of those hospitalized were unvaccinated. Then breakthrough cases were no longer counted, yet states continued to collect data for another month or two. If breakthrough cases were being ignored, then only unvaccinated cases were counted, falsely creating that 95 percent figure.

A Detroit newspaper headline screamed, “98% of Michigan COVID-19 cases are from unvaccinated” yet buried in the article is the measurement period, “between Jan 15 and July 21.” There is no discussion of the fact that during the measurement period, most Michiganders had not yet been vaccinated and most of those hospitalized during that time period were by default unvaccinated. Were they even recording breakthrough cases after mid-May when the CDC stopped counting?

.

.
The problem is when data are cherry-picked to present a pre-determined narrative. That is when science turns into propaganda. As the Seattle Times noted of the 95 percent figure, a “misguided and dangerous statement.” Going further saying, “But it’s not that simple and to oversimplify by calling it a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated’ will only make the problem worse.”


Vaccine hesitancy does not lie along political divisions. Interestingly blacks, Hispanics, and those with Ph.D.s are among the most vaccine-hesitant. When people see the vaccinated getting sick and dying around the world, there is hesitancy. When we were told that vaccination is the path to a return to normalcy, and instead we are going back to last year, there is hesitancy.



Just about everything is politicized these days. Who the hell can we trust? Certainly not anyone in gov't, including the CDC. They've said one thing, then walked it back and said something else, and then changed back. The Media? Please. They're not paid to tell the truth, they're paid to sell papers and get clicks. You read something and then a day later you find out it's bullshit. However, we certainly do have a pandemic; but it's a pandemic of distrust, where truth and integrity are rare and getting more and more scarce.
Haven't you heard? The left only accept scientific facts. But only the scientific facts that fit their agenda. Otherwise they bury their heads in the sand and ignore the facts.
 

colfax_m

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Israel is one of the most vaxxed countries and Delta blew their socks off. Explain that.
You have to be really specific about how you interpret data.

Separating the effect of age from the effect of COVID needs careful analysis.

There seems to be a wear off of vaccine and that’s why the third shot is being discussed.

But here in this country, the more vaccinated states have a lot less COVID. If the vaccine was useless, that simply wouldn’t be the case.
 

bendog

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Israel is one of the most vaxxed countries and Delta blew their socks off. Explain that.
In other words, the “vaccine” is not preventing either infection or transmission, though in Israel it did lower those numbers.

  • Individuals who are unvaccinated and who have never been infected with COVID are at least twice as likely to be infected as those who are vaccinated.
  • Those who have recovered from COVID are far less likely to be infected than even those who are vaccinated.
 

Roudy

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You can never trust a Democrat. They kept harping that those who are vaccinated will soon need not worry the virus or wear a mask. Even Biden started doing it after his announcement. Now we’re being told to wear a mask even if vaccinated. In other words no reward and no end in sight. The fascist thugs are never going to relinquish total control over our lives. And they wonder why there is vaccine hesitancy.
 

Wild Bill Kelsoe

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In other words, the “vaccine” is not preventing either infection or transmission, though in Israel it did lower those numbers.

  • Individuals who are unvaccinated and who have never been infected with COVID are at least twice as likely to be infected as those who are vaccinated.
  • Those who have recovered from COVID are far less likely to be infected than even those who are vaccinated.
But, it didn't stop it. Right?
 

Wild Bill Kelsoe

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You have to be really specific about how you interpret data.

Separating the effect of age from the effect of COVID needs careful analysis.

There seems to be a wear off of vaccine and that’s why the third shot is being discussed.

But here in this country, the more vaccinated states have a lot less COVID. If the vaccine was useless, that simply wouldn’t be the case.
Bottom line: the vaccine wasn't ever going to end the pandemic.
 

colfax_m

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Bottom line: the vaccine wasn't ever going to end the pandemic.
Maybe. But that wasn’t apparent a year ago when we were working furiously to roll them out.

But at the end of the day, the vaccine has had a bigger impact with less downside than anything else in this pandemic.
 

bendog

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Bottom line: the vaccine wasn't ever going to end the pandemic.
Wow. Earthshaking. GTFO

Professor Eyal Leshem, an infectious disease specialist at Sheba Medical Center who has been treating Covid patients in Israel, told CNBC that while cases were rising despite a high vaccination rate, the rate of severe illness in the country remained “substantially lower.”

“We attribute that to the fact that most of our adult population is vaccinated with two doses, and more than one million people have received the third booster dose,” he said on a phone call.
“The severe disease rates in the vaccinated are about one-tenth of those seen in the unvaccinated, which means the vaccine is still over 90% effective in preventing severe disease,” Leshem added. “People who received the booster dose are also at much, much lower risk
 

Wild Bill Kelsoe

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Wow. Earthshaking. GTFO

Professor Eyal Leshem, an infectious disease specialist at Sheba Medical Center who has been treating Covid patients in Israel, told CNBC that while cases were rising despite a high vaccination rate, the rate of severe illness in the country remained “substantially lower.”

“We attribute that to the fact that most of our adult population is vaccinated with two doses, and more than one million people have received the third booster dose,” he said on a phone call.
“The severe disease rates in the vaccinated are about one-tenth of those seen in the unvaccinated, which means the vaccine is still over 90% effective in preventing severe disease,” Leshem added. “People who received the booster dose are also at much, much lower risk
But, you all said if we just get vaxxed, the virus will go away. Turns out you all were wrong.

The vaccine isn't 90 percent affective. Another lie.
 

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