a new party

[MarcATL]

I've largely given up on this idea, considering the stranglehold the two "major" parties have on our election system. Plus, if such a party can't appear NOW, as ridiculous and polarized as things are, one NEVER will.

What I'm hoping now is that one of the parties will wake up and realize that a majority of the country wants moderation and cooperation, and be the first to take advantage of that. The problem is that the wings have most of the energy, and therefore the influence.

I don't know what fixes this.

This is exactly what I'm talking about right here.

You typically always have one party that's talking about unity when they have power, and you have one party that NEVER talks about that, but whenever they have the most power, ram things through.

You know which one does what.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Why do people always jump to, "You want the market to deal with issues, that means you want NO GOVERNMENT!!!"? Only a very great fool thinks he can have capitalism and anarchy at the same time.

Of course, you're also apparently leaping to the conclusion that Indee agrees with you that "Trump is a bad man, because I don't like him!" I didn't see him agree with your gratuitous and unproven insults to Trump at all. Perhaps you could show me where he did.

I would also like to see the evidence for your confident assertion that "People turned to Biden because he's so bipartisan". Seems to me that you think Biden won=my worldview is completely correct, and everyone agrees with it. The Republican Party also has no need to "put itself back together", unless this is also an assumption on your part that they're in disarray because they don't agree with you.

And then there's the final assumption that the only reason people could disagree with you is because they're "mired in anger". Sounds to me like you need to spend less time listening to your own self-flattery in a mirror and more time listening to other people.

 

[Cecilie1200]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

 

[Indeependent]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Trump is the furthest thing from a con man.
Every politician that has promised you Nirvana for the last 30 years and hasn’t delivered via their usual government intervention is a con artist.

Now grow up.

 

[MaryAnne11]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

 

[progressive hunter]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

we have discussed it and determined your idea sucks,,,

now youre just mad you realized youre a fascist idiot,,,

 

[Mac1958]

I've largely given up on this idea, considering the stranglehold the two "major" parties have on our election system. Plus, if such a party can't appear NOW, as ridiculous and polarized as things are, one NEVER will.

What I'm hoping now is that one of the parties will wake up and realize that a majority of the country wants moderation and cooperation, and be the first to take advantage of that. The problem is that the wings have most of the energy, and therefore the influence.

I don't know what fixes this.

This is exactly what I'm talking about right here.

You typically always have one party that's talking about unity when they have power, and you have one party that NEVER talks about that, but whenever they have the most power, ram things through.

You know which one does what.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know that one party does that more than the other.

Since this clearly troubles you, let me clarify for you: What I have actually said about five thousand times or so is that the two ends of he spectrum share many behaviors. They include behaviors like deflection, denial, distortion, hyperbole, straw man arguments, tribalism, hypocrisy and outright lies. If you want to deny that and demand that I provide examples, I'll say I won't bother, and then you'll say "I knew you couldn't provide any examples".

I get that one from both ends, too. But I've played that game too many times, and I'm done with it.

 

[MaryAnne11]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

You know, if Trump had not been an awful person who abused children and picked fights with women who weren't even political, and if he'd actually taken responsibility for a responsible response to covid …. he'd have been reelected. Jus sayin.

It was never about any of that.

Trump is an outsider. He shit on too many gravy trains. BOTH establishment duopoly parties wanted him out of the way to keep that gravy train running. This is all about corruption at its core.

and he lost.

 

[MaryAnne11]

We better come together on something, the gridlock is hurting us all.

Not really. Our system is actually designed for gridlock. It's a feature, not a bug. The intention is for change to come slowly, and only after a lot of the people are convinced it's a good idea.

The Senate was designed for that. We have a bi- partisan group working on a bill. McConnell has gone from absolutely no, he will not bring the bill up to, we can pass a small bill now, a bigger one in the new Congress. He said that today. That is progress.

The whole system is designed for it, not just the Senate. You think a crowd of 400+ elected representatives was designed for streamlining things? A three-branch government with multiple checks and balances between the groups was intended to be a bullet train to making changes, was it?

And don't even talk to me about "Oh, McConnell is obstructing all by himself, the HUMANITY!" if you haven't said a word about Nancy Pelosi.

McConnell is now beginning to relent. So is Pelosi. Helped by a bi-partisan group in both the House and Senate.

Only because Pelosi might lose her power. I have no respect for her over her actions the last year. McConnell the same as Reid.

Pelosi has announced this is her last term. I am not here to argue politics. I am here to discuss solutions for our problems.

Sorry, honey, but you can't do that without discussing politics, because politics are nothing more or less than how people do things as a group. It may sound high-minded and lofty, but it's ultimately a meaningless phrase to say, "I want to discuss solutions, not politics." Can you discuss solutions without discussing the balance between what I believe the problems are and how they should be addressed and what you say they are and how they should be addressed? No, you can't, and that balance is politics.

I have yet to read what you think our problems are.

 

[MaryAnne11]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Why do people always jump to, "You want the market to deal with issues, that means you want NO GOVERNMENT!!!"? Only a very great fool thinks he can have capitalism and anarchy at the same time.

Of course, you're also apparently leaping to the conclusion that Indee agrees with you that "Trump is a bad man, because I don't like him!" I didn't see him agree with your gratuitous and unproven insults to Trump at all. Perhaps you could show me where he did.

I would also like to see the evidence for your confident assertion that "People turned to Biden because he's so bipartisan". Seems to me that you think Biden won=my worldview is completely correct, and everyone agrees with it. The Republican Party also has no need to "put itself back together", unless this is also an assumption on your part that they're in disarray because they don't agree with you.

And then there's the final assumption that the only reason people could disagree with you is because they're "mired in anger". Sounds to me like you need to spend less time listening to your own self-flattery in a mirror and more time listening to other people.

I have a great question for you. Why did so many prominent Republicans back Biden over Trump? Are they all corrupt, did not like Trump because he upset their gravy train or did they honestly see he was far from a Conservative, just destructive and destroying their party?

As an honest Conservative you can answer that question for those of us on the other side.

 

[MaryAnne11]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Trump is the furthest thing from a con man.
Every politician that has promised you Nirvana for the last 30 years and hasn’t delivered via their usual government intervention is a con artist.

Now grow up.

Then why does he have so many just waiting to serve him? We did not see that when Obama was in office.

 

[MarcATL]

I don't know that one party does that more than the other.

Since this clearly troubles you, let me clarify for you: What I have actually said about five thousand times or so is that the two ends of he spectrum share many behaviors. They include behaviors like deflection, denial, distortion, hyperbole, straw man arguments, tribalism, hypocrisy and outright lies. If you want to deny that and demand that I provide examples, I'll say I won't bother, and then you'll say "I knew you couldn't provide any examples".

I get that one from both ends, too. But I've played that game too many times, and I'm done with it.

Every politician does some version of all of those behaviors, that's to be expected.

However, there's levels to everything.

A hit from a small child is not equivalent to a grown body building male gathering all their might to land a deathblow on an individual.

Hope this clarifies things for you.

 

[MaryAnne11]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

How does the market handle polluting? They've been forced to clean it up. Anyway, believe COVID isn't serious, don't believe in wearing masks and climate change isn't happening regardless of what science says. Give it a rest, you're trying way too hard to be obnoxious.

How does the market control polluting? If the public is against a company who pollutes, they will refrain from purchasing their products. That is how the market controls everything....from polluting, to child labor, to poor quality of product, to overpriced product, etc

How is the market controlling polluting? It isn't. Most people don't care. You're concerned about offshoring jobs, right? But I bet you shop at WalMart, a company that facilitates moving manufacturing to China. What is your dumb fat ass doing about it? But I bet you want government to force companies to make shit here, right?

The Wal-Mart effect: Its Chinese imports have displaced nearly 200,000 U.S. jobs

China’s entry into the World Trade Organization (WTO) was supposed to improve the U.S. trade deficit with China and create good jobs in the United States. But those promises have gone unfulfilled: the total U.S. trade deficit with China reached $235 billion in 2006. Between 2001 and 2006, this...

www.epi.org

Now...if the public buys a product from a polluter, than they are more interested in their own wants than they are in the environment. If they buy a prodcut from a user of child labor? They care about their own wants than the safety of children.
That is how the free market works.

Where was your smart phone made and what are the alternatives if you know..you cared about it?

I refuse to shop at Walmart and shop local. I look for products that are American made, and if I can’t find the item, I ask a manager if they could find American made products, most are happy to do so.

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

I'd say someone who realizes that we need both tax increases and budget cuts; that we need to raise the retirement age for Social Security; that realizes that we need to de-couple health insurance and employers; that we need to come to terms with the shortcomings of the geniuses that founded our nation (both personal and civic-wise) and admit that our constitution is not built for 2020. That we need to take care of anyone under 18 and over 60 medically and give the youth a chance and the elders a dignified end.

That'd be a start to a platform I think most Americans would agree with.

I like that. Great , well thought out post. Who could disagree?

everyone....

Republicans.

Obama proposed the rise in SS retirement age. Pelosi screamed bloody murder.

I'm not really for raising the retirement age either, but I'm not going to call you un-American or a traitor to the country for it. It's a debate wholly within the Democratic party.

And it shouldn't be. The science has people living to be older, more active, and incidentally...they want to work and often need the higher income. IT should guide the decision; not what life expectancy was in 1934.

Not everyone is living longer, the more well off someone is who doesn't depend as much on SS live longer, by about 14 years than poorer Americans.

This makes the argument for one health care for all! Of course those who want more can pay for it.

Medicare Advantage is a good example. As one of the major Insurance companies advised everyone it took 3 years for them to adjust to the ACA.

Now they would be able to afford more benefits. They have done that every year. In most cases with zero costs. The ACA should have been amended 10 years ago to fix the problems as most programs do.

The ACA helped fill gaps for pre existing conditions and those who simply have no other options for healthcare while also helping to define what exactly health insurance should cover so people are paying premiums for not much more than a band aid.

I'm not really sure ultimately what the solution for health insurance is in this country but it's most likely going to involve public and private entities.

Tying it to your employer is something I don't see continuing for much longer.

I agree, however it's a huge step to separate insurance from employment.

Yes. But it doesn't seem logical or sustainable.

Seems tough to me. Unless the government totally pays for everyone’s healthcare, it won’t happen. If the government did that, then there is no point in having insurance or private hospitals or doctors. I don’t think big insurance and pharma are going to go for that. That is the real issue. The big money controls Congress.

For starters I wouldn't think of private medical practices as the same as insurance. They are two different things. Also saying "government totally pays for everyone's healthcare" is not really how it works. Most people pay for their own healthcare. Either through premiums or if a government plan through some sort of tax.

do you have any ideas for people that dont want the governemnt involved in their private healthcare???

Die young.

or are all you solutions fascist in nature??

Weird.

I said thats not fascist in nature,,

Nothing stated in this thread about healthcare is fascist. Maybe try being serious.

the very nature of forcing me into a system I dont want is facsist,, and also forcing me to pay more so other people pay less is also facsist,,

You're already paying into at least one government healthcare plan not to mention social security. So, give it a rest.

that is forced on me against my will,, in other words its facsist,,

Then according to you we're living in a fascist country.

This thread is mainly about moderates and where they may find the most room in a political party for their beliefs. Republican, Democrat or a moderate party. You're making it really easy to scratch off the first option.

And you have scratched off the second option.

I'm pretty confident most moderates don't feel Social Security and Medicare is fascism. Just a hunch.

First off your reading comprehension sucks, because I never said Social Security and Medicare is fascism, maybe you should try to understand what you read instead of mindless knee jerk responses.

Many do feel that taking away employer healthcare is fascism.
There is a place in America for both employer insurance and getting your own. Just because one has employer paid health insurance and likes it doesn’t mean he doesn’t think about his own demographic, it means he sees a bigger picture that doesn’t rely on the government to fix every problem but sees multiple solutions.

A one solution fix is fascism and you still ruled out your second option.

So give us an idea how to fix health care . What do you suggest?

In another post I explained how Insurance companies saying they had adjusted to the ACA and were able to provide more benefits each year.

You stop the silly lawsuits, that is driving liability insurance costs through the roof, limiting good doctors from treating people. We are seeing more and more doctors in big clinics because they could no longer afford the liability insurance. States could allow insurance companies to cross state lines and make them more competitive. States could then offer subsidized insurance and if they want to make it income based, then do it. States then need to limit lobbying in their states. Encourage more independent doctors by offering incentives for them to leave big medicine. The states could demand insurance companies to standardize their coding for easier and quicker processes.

It’s really a state issue and the best solutions are found at state levels where better fits for the people can happen.

Sure you don't shop at WalMart or Target

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

I'd say someone who realizes that we need both tax increases and budget cuts; that we need to raise the retirement age for Social Security; that realizes that we need to de-couple health insurance and employers; that we need to come to terms with the shortcomings of the geniuses that founded our nation (both personal and civic-wise) and admit that our constitution is not built for 2020. That we need to take care of anyone under 18 and over 60 medically and give the youth a chance and the elders a dignified end.

That'd be a start to a platform I think most Americans would agree with.

I like that. Great , well thought out post. Who could disagree?

everyone....

Republicans.

Obama proposed the rise in SS retirement age. Pelosi screamed bloody murder.

I'm not really for raising the retirement age either, but I'm not going to call you un-American or a traitor to the country for it. It's a debate wholly within the Democratic party.

And it shouldn't be. The science has people living to be older, more active, and incidentally...they want to work and often need the higher income. IT should guide the decision; not what life expectancy was in 1934.

Not everyone is living longer, the more well off someone is who doesn't depend as much on SS live longer, by about 14 years than poorer Americans.

This makes the argument for one health care for all! Of course those who want more can pay for it.

Medicare Advantage is a good example. As one of the major Insurance companies advised everyone it took 3 years for them to adjust to the ACA.

Now they would be able to afford more benefits. They have done that every year. In most cases with zero costs. The ACA should have been amended 10 years ago to fix the problems as most programs do.

The ACA helped fill gaps for pre existing conditions and those who simply have no other options for healthcare while also helping to define what exactly health insurance should cover so people are paying premiums for not much more than a band aid.

I'm not really sure ultimately what the solution for health insurance is in this country but it's most likely going to involve public and private entities.

Tying it to your employer is something I don't see continuing for much longer.

I agree, however it's a huge step to separate insurance from employment.

Yes. But it doesn't seem logical or sustainable.

Seems tough to me. Unless the government totally pays for everyone’s healthcare, it won’t happen. If the government did that, then there is no point in having insurance or private hospitals or doctors. I don’t think big insurance and pharma are going to go for that. That is the real issue. The big money controls Congress.

For starters I wouldn't think of private medical practices as the same as insurance. They are two different things. Also saying "government totally pays for everyone's healthcare" is not really how it works. Most people pay for their own healthcare. Either through premiums or if a government plan through some sort of tax.

do you have any ideas for people that dont want the governemnt involved in their private healthcare???

Die young.

or are all you solutions fascist in nature??

Weird.

I said thats not fascist in nature,,

Nothing stated in this thread about healthcare is fascist. Maybe try being serious.

the very nature of forcing me into a system I dont want is facsist,, and also forcing me to pay more so other people pay less is also facsist,,

You're already paying into at least one government healthcare plan not to mention social security. So, give it a rest.

that is forced on me against my will,, in other words its facsist,,

Then according to you we're living in a fascist country.

This thread is mainly about moderates and where they may find the most room in a political party for their beliefs. Republican, Democrat or a moderate party. You're making it really easy to scratch off the first option.

And you have scratched off the second option.

I'm pretty confident most moderates don't feel Social Security and Medicare is fascism. Just a hunch.

First off your reading comprehension sucks, because I never said Social Security and Medicare is fascism, maybe you should try to understand what you read instead of mindless knee jerk responses.

Many do feel that taking away employer healthcare is fascism.
There is a place in America for both employer insurance and getting your own. Just because one has employer paid health insurance and likes it doesn’t mean he doesn’t think about his own demographic, it means he sees a bigger picture that doesn’t rely on the government to fix every problem but sees multiple solutions.

A one solution fix is fascism and you still ruled out your second option.

So give us an idea how to fix health care . What do you suggest?

In another post I explained how Insurance companies saying they had adjusted to the ACA and were able to provide more benefits each year.

the first thing to do is get the feds out of it and let the states do what is their legal authority to do,,

its easy to trace the increase in medical care to when the feds started to get involved,,

Then what? Your non-answer isn't cutting it.

then I would lower both corp tax and personal tax and bring jobs back so more people can work and pay their own ways in life,,

So, both have already been lowered what has that done for healthcare so far? Not a thing.

I don’t go to big corporate stores, I do admit finding local mom and pops is getting tougher to find. I look for US products as much as possible and always ask stores if they have a product made in the USA. I’m not a China fan, they have lied to us many times over, lead in toys, drywall that was moldy, lying about the coronavirus. They don’t care about Americans, and will kill for the almighty dollar as they keep proving.

If I can buy American madeI do. We need to put more emphasis on building American companies.

The irony of WALMART is that Sam Walton actually prided himself on American products. The signs were up all over his stores at the beginning. Then others took over and forced companies out. Some of that is now changing and after being shamed they increased wages.

Same and WalMart did a complete 180 on trade. I guess that's changing back but I doubt it. I'd like to see is us stop subsidizing WalMart, Amazon and others when they pay their employees so little that they end up on food stamps. Talk about corporate welfare.

just stop giving them food stamps,,,

That ended some time ago. Walmart was shamed into giving raises.

 

[progressive hunter]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

How does the market handle polluting? They've been forced to clean it up. Anyway, believe COVID isn't serious, don't believe in wearing masks and climate change isn't happening regardless of what science says. Give it a rest, you're trying way too hard to be obnoxious.

How does the market control polluting? If the public is against a company who pollutes, they will refrain from purchasing their products. That is how the market controls everything....from polluting, to child labor, to poor quality of product, to overpriced product, etc

How is the market controlling polluting? It isn't. Most people don't care. You're concerned about offshoring jobs, right? But I bet you shop at WalMart, a company that facilitates moving manufacturing to China. What is your dumb fat ass doing about it? But I bet you want government to force companies to make shit here, right?

The Wal-Mart effect: Its Chinese imports have displaced nearly 200,000 U.S. jobs

China’s entry into the World Trade Organization (WTO) was supposed to improve the U.S. trade deficit with China and create good jobs in the United States. But those promises have gone unfulfilled: the total U.S. trade deficit with China reached $235 billion in 2006. Between 2001 and 2006, this...

www.epi.org

Now...if the public buys a product from a polluter, than they are more interested in their own wants than they are in the environment. If they buy a prodcut from a user of child labor? They care about their own wants than the safety of children.
That is how the free market works.

Where was your smart phone made and what are the alternatives if you know..you cared about it?

I refuse to shop at Walmart and shop local. I look for products that are American made, and if I can’t find the item, I ask a manager if they could find American made products, most are happy to do so.

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

I'd say someone who realizes that we need both tax increases and budget cuts; that we need to raise the retirement age for Social Security; that realizes that we need to de-couple health insurance and employers; that we need to come to terms with the shortcomings of the geniuses that founded our nation (both personal and civic-wise) and admit that our constitution is not built for 2020. That we need to take care of anyone under 18 and over 60 medically and give the youth a chance and the elders a dignified end.

That'd be a start to a platform I think most Americans would agree with.

I like that. Great , well thought out post. Who could disagree?

everyone....

Republicans.

Obama proposed the rise in SS retirement age. Pelosi screamed bloody murder.

I'm not really for raising the retirement age either, but I'm not going to call you un-American or a traitor to the country for it. It's a debate wholly within the Democratic party.

And it shouldn't be. The science has people living to be older, more active, and incidentally...they want to work and often need the higher income. IT should guide the decision; not what life expectancy was in 1934.

Not everyone is living longer, the more well off someone is who doesn't depend as much on SS live longer, by about 14 years than poorer Americans.

This makes the argument for one health care for all! Of course those who want more can pay for it.

Medicare Advantage is a good example. As one of the major Insurance companies advised everyone it took 3 years for them to adjust to the ACA.

Now they would be able to afford more benefits. They have done that every year. In most cases with zero costs. The ACA should have been amended 10 years ago to fix the problems as most programs do.

The ACA helped fill gaps for pre existing conditions and those who simply have no other options for healthcare while also helping to define what exactly health insurance should cover so people are paying premiums for not much more than a band aid.

I'm not really sure ultimately what the solution for health insurance is in this country but it's most likely going to involve public and private entities.

Tying it to your employer is something I don't see continuing for much longer.

I agree, however it's a huge step to separate insurance from employment.

Yes. But it doesn't seem logical or sustainable.

Seems tough to me. Unless the government totally pays for everyone’s healthcare, it won’t happen. If the government did that, then there is no point in having insurance or private hospitals or doctors. I don’t think big insurance and pharma are going to go for that. That is the real issue. The big money controls Congress.

For starters I wouldn't think of private medical practices as the same as insurance. They are two different things. Also saying "government totally pays for everyone's healthcare" is not really how it works. Most people pay for their own healthcare. Either through premiums or if a government plan through some sort of tax.

do you have any ideas for people that dont want the governemnt involved in their private healthcare???

Die young.

or are all you solutions fascist in nature??

Weird.

I said thats not fascist in nature,,

Nothing stated in this thread about healthcare is fascist. Maybe try being serious.

the very nature of forcing me into a system I dont want is facsist,, and also forcing me to pay more so other people pay less is also facsist,,

You're already paying into at least one government healthcare plan not to mention social security. So, give it a rest.

that is forced on me against my will,, in other words its facsist,,

Then according to you we're living in a fascist country.

This thread is mainly about moderates and where they may find the most room in a political party for their beliefs. Republican, Democrat or a moderate party. You're making it really easy to scratch off the first option.

And you have scratched off the second option.

I'm pretty confident most moderates don't feel Social Security and Medicare is fascism. Just a hunch.

First off your reading comprehension sucks, because I never said Social Security and Medicare is fascism, maybe you should try to understand what you read instead of mindless knee jerk responses.

Many do feel that taking away employer healthcare is fascism.
There is a place in America for both employer insurance and getting your own. Just because one has employer paid health insurance and likes it doesn’t mean he doesn’t think about his own demographic, it means he sees a bigger picture that doesn’t rely on the government to fix every problem but sees multiple solutions.

A one solution fix is fascism and you still ruled out your second option.

So give us an idea how to fix health care . What do you suggest?

In another post I explained how Insurance companies saying they had adjusted to the ACA and were able to provide more benefits each year.

You stop the silly lawsuits, that is driving liability insurance costs through the roof, limiting good doctors from treating people. We are seeing more and more doctors in big clinics because they could no longer afford the liability insurance. States could allow insurance companies to cross state lines and make them more competitive. States could then offer subsidized insurance and if they want to make it income based, then do it. States then need to limit lobbying in their states. Encourage more independent doctors by offering incentives for them to leave big medicine. The states could demand insurance companies to standardize their coding for easier and quicker processes.

It’s really a state issue and the best solutions are found at state levels where better fits for the people can happen.

Sure you don't shop at WalMart or Target

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

I'd say someone who realizes that we need both tax increases and budget cuts; that we need to raise the retirement age for Social Security; that realizes that we need to de-couple health insurance and employers; that we need to come to terms with the shortcomings of the geniuses that founded our nation (both personal and civic-wise) and admit that our constitution is not built for 2020. That we need to take care of anyone under 18 and over 60 medically and give the youth a chance and the elders a dignified end.

That'd be a start to a platform I think most Americans would agree with.

I like that. Great , well thought out post. Who could disagree?

everyone....

Republicans.

Obama proposed the rise in SS retirement age. Pelosi screamed bloody murder.

I'm not really for raising the retirement age either, but I'm not going to call you un-American or a traitor to the country for it. It's a debate wholly within the Democratic party.

And it shouldn't be. The science has people living to be older, more active, and incidentally...they want to work and often need the higher income. IT should guide the decision; not what life expectancy was in 1934.

Not everyone is living longer, the more well off someone is who doesn't depend as much on SS live longer, by about 14 years than poorer Americans.

This makes the argument for one health care for all! Of course those who want more can pay for it.

Medicare Advantage is a good example. As one of the major Insurance companies advised everyone it took 3 years for them to adjust to the ACA.

Now they would be able to afford more benefits. They have done that every year. In most cases with zero costs. The ACA should have been amended 10 years ago to fix the problems as most programs do.

The ACA helped fill gaps for pre existing conditions and those who simply have no other options for healthcare while also helping to define what exactly health insurance should cover so people are paying premiums for not much more than a band aid.

I'm not really sure ultimately what the solution for health insurance is in this country but it's most likely going to involve public and private entities.

Tying it to your employer is something I don't see continuing for much longer.

I agree, however it's a huge step to separate insurance from employment.

Yes. But it doesn't seem logical or sustainable.

Seems tough to me. Unless the government totally pays for everyone’s healthcare, it won’t happen. If the government did that, then there is no point in having insurance or private hospitals or doctors. I don’t think big insurance and pharma are going to go for that. That is the real issue. The big money controls Congress.

For starters I wouldn't think of private medical practices as the same as insurance. They are two different things. Also saying "government totally pays for everyone's healthcare" is not really how it works. Most people pay for their own healthcare. Either through premiums or if a government plan through some sort of tax.

do you have any ideas for people that dont want the governemnt involved in their private healthcare???

Die young.

or are all you solutions fascist in nature??

Weird.

I said thats not fascist in nature,,

Nothing stated in this thread about healthcare is fascist. Maybe try being serious.

the very nature of forcing me into a system I dont want is facsist,, and also forcing me to pay more so other people pay less is also facsist,,

You're already paying into at least one government healthcare plan not to mention social security. So, give it a rest.

that is forced on me against my will,, in other words its facsist,,

Then according to you we're living in a fascist country.

This thread is mainly about moderates and where they may find the most room in a political party for their beliefs. Republican, Democrat or a moderate party. You're making it really easy to scratch off the first option.

And you have scratched off the second option.

I'm pretty confident most moderates don't feel Social Security and Medicare is fascism. Just a hunch.

First off your reading comprehension sucks, because I never said Social Security and Medicare is fascism, maybe you should try to understand what you read instead of mindless knee jerk responses.

Many do feel that taking away employer healthcare is fascism.
There is a place in America for both employer insurance and getting your own. Just because one has employer paid health insurance and likes it doesn’t mean he doesn’t think about his own demographic, it means he sees a bigger picture that doesn’t rely on the government to fix every problem but sees multiple solutions.

A one solution fix is fascism and you still ruled out your second option.

So give us an idea how to fix health care . What do you suggest?

In another post I explained how Insurance companies saying they had adjusted to the ACA and were able to provide more benefits each year.

the first thing to do is get the feds out of it and let the states do what is their legal authority to do,,

its easy to trace the increase in medical care to when the feds started to get involved,,

Then what? Your non-answer isn't cutting it.

then I would lower both corp tax and personal tax and bring jobs back so more people can work and pay their own ways in life,,

So, both have already been lowered what has that done for healthcare so far? Not a thing.

I don’t go to big corporate stores, I do admit finding local mom and pops is getting tougher to find. I look for US products as much as possible and always ask stores if they have a product made in the USA. I’m not a China fan, they have lied to us many times over, lead in toys, drywall that was moldy, lying about the coronavirus. They don’t care about Americans, and will kill for the almighty dollar as they keep proving.

If I can buy American madeI do. We need to put more emphasis on building American companies.

The irony of WALMART is that Sam Walton actually prided himself on American products. The signs were up all over his stores at the beginning. Then others took over and forced companies out. Some of that is now changing and after being shamed they increased wages.

Same and WalMart did a complete 180 on trade. I guess that's changing back but I doubt it. I'd like to see is us stop subsidizing WalMart, Amazon and others when they pay their employees so little that they end up on food stamps. Talk about corporate welfare.

just stop giving them food stamps,,,

That ended some time ago. Walmart was shamed into giving raises.

you mean they were forced by fascist to do it,,,

 

[MaryAnne11]

We better come together on something, the gridlock is hurting us all.

Not really. Our system is actually designed for gridlock. It's a feature, not a bug. The intention is for change to come slowly, and only after a lot of the people are convinced it's a good idea.

The Senate was designed for that. We have a bi- partisan group working on a bill. McConnell has gone from absolutely no, he will not bring the bill up to, we can pass a small bill now, a bigger one in the new Congress. He said that today. That is progress.

The whole system is designed for it, not just the Senate. You think a crowd of 400+ elected representatives was designed for streamlining things? A three-branch government with multiple checks and balances between the groups was intended to be a bullet train to making changes, was it?

And don't even talk to me about "Oh, McConnell is obstructing all by himself, the HUMANITY!" if you haven't said a word about Nancy Pelosi.

McConnell is now beginning to relent. So is Pelosi. Helped by a bi-partisan group in both the House and Senate.

Only because Pelosi might lose her power. I have no respect for her over her actions the last year. McConnell the same as Reid.

Pelosi has announced this is her last term. I am not here to argue politics. I am here to discuss solutions for our problems.

and yet all you talk about is more power to the fed gov,,

why not take your ideas to the state level where they are legal and stand a better chance of happening??

What State level are you talking about? States get Federal help for many things.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

When has he worked across party lines?

I'm struggling to remember when he's actually done something, period.

 

[bendog]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

You know, if Trump had not been an awful person who abused children and picked fights with women who weren't even political, and if he'd actually taken responsibility for a responsible response to covid …. he'd have been reelected. Jus sayin.

It was never about any of that.

Trump is an outsider. He shit on too many gravy trains. BOTH establishment duopoly parties wanted him out of the way to keep that gravy train running. This is all about corruption at its core.

but Trump lost districts he won in 16, and moderate the dems flipped in 18 and the GOP won back in 20

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

When has he worked across party lines?

Ask the Senators that have worked with him.

In other words, you don't know, either.

 

[progressive hunter]

We better come together on something, the gridlock is hurting us all.

Not really. Our system is actually designed for gridlock. It's a feature, not a bug. The intention is for change to come slowly, and only after a lot of the people are convinced it's a good idea.

The Senate was designed for that. We have a bi- partisan group working on a bill. McConnell has gone from absolutely no, he will not bring the bill up to, we can pass a small bill now, a bigger one in the new Congress. He said that today. That is progress.

The whole system is designed for it, not just the Senate. You think a crowd of 400+ elected representatives was designed for streamlining things? A three-branch government with multiple checks and balances between the groups was intended to be a bullet train to making changes, was it?

And don't even talk to me about "Oh, McConnell is obstructing all by himself, the HUMANITY!" if you haven't said a word about Nancy Pelosi.

McConnell is now beginning to relent. So is Pelosi. Helped by a bi-partisan group in both the House and Senate.

Only because Pelosi might lose her power. I have no respect for her over her actions the last year. McConnell the same as Reid.

Pelosi has announced this is her last term. I am not here to argue politics. I am here to discuss solutions for our problems.

and yet all you talk about is more power to the fed gov,,

why not take your ideas to the state level where they are legal and stand a better chance of happening??

What State level are you talking about? States get Federal help for many things.

theres only one state level,, and the feds use money to manipulate and control the states which is called extortion,,,

the point is most of what you want is illegal at the fed level but not at the state level,,

 

[Cecilie1200]

When has he worked across party lines?

Ask the Senators that have worked with him.

So you have no examples of him working across the aisle? I didn’t think so. Wasn’t he the one that didn’t want to hold confirmation hearings back in the 80’s or 90’s on a Supreme Court Justice if they stepped down or passed away during an election year? Didn’t he say something about if you don’t vote for him, you ain’t black? How about his 10-15% of Americans are not good people? Seems divisive to me. I think he will be less abrasive than Trump but he has never seemed like a unifier, nor a strong leader.

Practiced liars usually are less abrasive than people telling the truth as they see it.