A message from a veteran about firearms in this country

[ChairmanGonzalo]

A Scrap of 18th Century Government Paper Doesn't Give You Your Gun Rights

What a slave you are to whatever the Establishment tells you to believe. The Constitution was set up to promote the particular agenda of the ruling class. In a free, self-determining country, it would have been a temporary start-up document, to be superseded by all subsequent legislation.

Many doctors take the Hippocratic Oath; does that mean they believe in the Greek god of healing? Swearing to defend the Constitution is just a metaphor for defending our country. Notice that the spawn of the ruling class hardly ever have to defend our country, but the Chickenhawks are the loudest at defending their totalitarian Constitution. Nobody bullies a free man, and the Constitution is just for plutocratic bullies and their sissy buttboys.

There is not now, nor has there ever been, anything "metaphorical" about the Constitution. It was the framework around which the nation was formed and serves as the supreme law that governs the government (ie "ruling class). It is designed to make the average citizen the actual ruling class and gun rights are there to enforce and defend the Constitution (not the government) .

Sheep Goosestepping Behind Chickenhawks

If you say so, faithfully repeating your Masters' fairy tales. You are a mind slave of the very ruling class that tells you that a document controlled by their own interpretations of it protects you from them.

No dumbass, it's what protects them form me right up until they try to be my master in more just their deluded dreams.
Who left the gate open and let all the communists out? I'm a Vietnam vet. I know interesting ways to deal with communists.

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

You would do well to post on subjects with which you have at least a tiny bit of knowledge. Obviously "honor" isn't one of them.
"Dubya" served during the Vietnam era and could been assigned to a combat unit. If you haven't served you haven't earned the right to question his service in my opinion. His father saw combat during WWII. I was inducted and served in the place of dishonorable cowardly assholes who bugged out to Canada. From the above it appears you approve of such dishonorable behavior. You are, of course correct, that not all who serve do so honorably. John Kerry is the obvious example.

John Kerry won the purple heart and several other decorations while patrolling the rivers of Vietnam. It's funny how the right wing claims to respect veterans: until they don't

 

[9thIDdoc]

A bolt action is far superior to ANY assault rifle. A N Y

I'll take an M1 Garand.

<a href="Wild boar" target="_blank"><img src="http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e...2133910_5239256747311338186_n_zpsj5ubzovh.jpg" border="0" alt="Wild boar photo 12074757_1112268472133910_5239256747311338186_n_zpsj5ubzovh.jpg"/></a>
<a href="Fallow deer" target="_blank"><img src="http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e...62133911_796458895120362663_n_zpsovswyto5.jpg" border="0" alt="Fallow deer photo 12047093_1112268462133911_796458895120362663_n_zpsovswyto5.jpg"/></a>
<a href="Fallow deer" target="_blank"><img src="http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e...62133911_796458895120362663_n_zpsovswyto5.jpg" border="0" alt="Fallow deer photo 12047093_1112268462133911_796458895120362663_n_zpsovswyto5.jpg"/></a>

<a href="Fallow deer" target="_blank"><img src="http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e...62133911_796458895120362663_n_zpsovswyto5.jpg" border="0" alt="Fallow deer photo 12047093_1112268462133911_796458895120362663_n_zpsovswyto5.jpg"/></a>


3 shots; 3 kills with the ole '06. Both boar dropped in their tracks. Note rifle.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Sheep Goosestepping Behind Chickenhawks

If you say so, faithfully repeating your Masters' fairy tales. You are a mind slave of the very ruling class that tells you that a document controlled by their own interpretations of it protects you from them.

No dumbass, it's what protects them form me right up until they try to be my master in more just their deluded dreams.
Who left the gate open and let all the communists out? I'm a Vietnam vet. I know interesting ways to deal with communists.

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

We don't need a ruling class like the Clintons.

What we need is a system where if you don't pay the bills you don't get to make the rules.

Sound fair?

Would that include Trump? He hasn't paid any of the bills (taxes) in a very long time. If what you say is the way it should be, then why is Trump trying to be president?

I am not voting for Trump so you can go bark up another tree.

By the way, do you pay any taxes?

If so do you take legal deductions?

You are not one of the greedy little Libtards that think you are entitled to deductions but other people aren't, are you?

Actually, yes, I do pay taxes. They're deducted out of my military retirement every month, and because I was in pay and personnel, I know how to figure my deductions so that at the end of the year, the amount of tax I owe, and the amount of tax I paid in already are pretty much the same.

My average refund is around 1.68 each year.

And................because I'm single, I'm only allowed the deduction for myself and up to whatever the amount is that you can claim for charity without receipts (around 75.00).

 

[9thIDdoc]

At 600 yards I win...open sights.

Actually, there is an off the shelf "assault rifle" (an AR-pattern chambered in .308, made by Smith & Wesson) that can regularly hit out to 800 yards. It is also fair at 1000, and even did fairly well out past 3/4 of a mile.

There are several. I have an M-1A SOCOM in .308. my son has a .50 Beaowulf

 

[9thIDdoc]

There is not now, nor has there ever been, anything "metaphorical" about the Constitution. It was the framework around which the nation was formed and serves as the supreme law that governs the government (ie "ruling class). It is designed to make the average citizen the actual ruling class and gun rights are there to enforce and defend the Constitution (not the government) .

Sheep Goosestepping Behind Chickenhawks

If you say so, faithfully repeating your Masters' fairy tales. You are a mind slave of the very ruling class that tells you that a document controlled by their own interpretations of it protects you from them.

No dumbass, it's what protects them form me right up until they try to be my master in more just their deluded dreams.
Who left the gate open and let all the communists out? I'm a Vietnam vet. I know interesting ways to deal with communists.

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

You would do well to post on subjects with which you have at least a tiny bit of knowledge. Obviously "honor" isn't one of them.
"Dubya" served during the Vietnam era and could been assigned to a combat unit. If you haven't served you haven't earned the right to question his service in my opinion. His father saw combat during WWII. I was inducted and served in the place of dishonorable cowardly assholes who bugged out to Canada. From the above it appears you approve of such dishonorable behavior. You are, of course correct, that not all who serve do so honorably. John Kerry is the obvious example.

John Kerry won the purple heart and several other decorations while patrolling the rivers of Vietnam. It's funny how the right wing claims to respect veterans: until they don't

That would be because his actions there and later were far less than honorable.

 

[Divine Wind]

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

Disagreed. OTOH, IIRC, you served yourself. Would you please share your service record? Even a brief one?

In fairness, mine is Marine Corps 1975-1985, Navy 1985-1991, Naval Reserve 1991-1997. Retired Navy, still a Marine.

 

[Divine Wind]

It's not for that. It's there to remind other people that you have rights and what they are. It serves as a line in the sand to show the government what it can and cannot do. The 2nd Amendment is there to make enforcing that possible.

The government does not care about what a piece of paper says it can and cannot do.

You people are worthless sycophants that cannot protect jackshit, much less the people's right to bear arms.

Both of you have good points. The Constitution doesn't give rights, it gives power to government. Power from "We, the People". The entire idea of writing a "Bill of Rights" was controversial at the time as those who actually understand history know.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

Disagreed. OTOH, IIRC, you served yourself. Would you please share your service record? Even a brief one?

In fairness, mine is Marine Corps 1975-1985, Navy 1985-1991, Naval Reserve 1991-1997. Retired Navy, still a Marine.

Q: What do you call a Marine with half a brain?
A: Gifted.


Q: What do you call a Sailor with half a brain?
A: Marine.

That's just for you Divine Wind.

Me? Active duty from July 1982 until August 2002, retired USN.

 

[Divine Wind]

My Remington 700 bolt is more than enough protection. Way more than enough. Gun kooky folk will disagree of course.

No one would disagree with you, except for the anti-gun nutters. Nothing wrong with that weapon for self defense, of course it might not work for the next guy. There is no one size fits all when it comes to firearms

Agreed.

IMHO, the problem is those who seek to chip away at self-defense rights. Let's say the anti-gunners win and limit everyone to a bolt-action, 5-shot rifle. Once the precedent of "common sense gun laws" is set at 5-shot, bolt-actions, why not single rifles? In fact, why need a rifle at all? Why not single shot shotguns and a single-shot pistol? See the problem here?

Once we chip away at our own rights, we will forever lose our rights. This goes for women and choice as well as the right of self defense.

 

[Divine Wind]

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

Disagreed. OTOH, IIRC, you served yourself. Would you please share your service record? Even a brief one?

In fairness, mine is Marine Corps 1975-1985, Navy 1985-1991, Naval Reserve 1991-1997. Retired Navy, still a Marine.

Q: What do you call a Marine with half a brain?
A: Gifted.


Q: What do you call a Sailor with half a brain?
A: Marine.

That's just for you Divine Wind.

Me? Active duty from July 1982 until August 2002, retired USN.

Marines are proud and happy to let Sailors tell jokes about them. We need the ride to get real work done.

 

[ABikerSailor]

My Remington 700 bolt is more than enough protection. Way more than enough. Gun kooky folk will disagree of course.

No one would disagree with you, except for the anti-gun nutters. Nothing wrong with that weapon for self defense, of course it might not work for the next guy. There is no one size fits all when it comes to firearms

Agreed.

IMHO, the problem is those who seek to chip away at self-defense rights. Let's say the anti-gunners win and limit everyone to a bolt-action, 5-shot rifle. Once the precedent of "common sense gun laws" is set at 5-shot, bolt-actions, why not single rifles? In fact, why need a rifle at all? Why not single shot shotguns and a single-shot pistol? See the problem here?

Once we chip away at our own rights, we will forever lose our rights. This goes for women and choice as well as the right of self defense.

You know, we had a law in place that already limited the amount of ammo you could send downrange before you had to reload. It was enacted and passed during the Reagan administration.

It was called the Brady Bill.

Why can't we go back to that? I think that the repeal of that was unnecessary, especially in light of the fact Reagan was shot.

 

[Divine Wind]

I go to college now. I also worked retail for a while after my military service, where I saw firsthand the poor treatment and struggles of minimum wage workers in this country

The struggles of liars and people who have to pay for their own mistakes?

Dude, you are right that there are wrongs and errors in this country, but choosing to burn down the house because the family has some problems is an extreme and irrational action.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Because the Brady Bill was feel-good bullshit that accomplished nothing.

 

[Divine Wind]

You know, we had a law in place that already limited the amount of ammo you could send downrange before you had to reload. It was enacted and passed during the Reagan administration.

It was called the Brady Bill.

Why can't we go back to that? I think that the repeal of that was unnecessary, especially in light of the fact Reagan was shot.

Why do we need it? Because a crazed rich kid in love with an actress shot a couple people? Why punish the entire citizenry for the actions of a nut job? Reagan also closed the mental institutions. Why aren't you bitching about that?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

Disagreed. OTOH, IIRC, you served yourself. Would you please share your service record? Even a brief one?

In fairness, mine is Marine Corps 1975-1985, Navy 1985-1991, Naval Reserve 1991-1997. Retired Navy, still a Marine.

Q: What do you call a Marine with half a brain?
A: Gifted.


Q: What do you call a Sailor with half a brain?
A: Marine.

That's just for you Divine Wind.

Me? Active duty from July 1982 until August 2002, retired USN.

Marines are proud and happy to let Sailors tell jokes about them. We need the ride to get real work done.

Know why the Navy allows the Marines to ride on their ships?

Sheep are too obvious.

Yeah................learned that while I was in A school. We had a bunch of Marines on the base with us and we'd fight like cats and dogs on the weekend at the base club, but let some civilians out in town start hassling one of us? ALL of us jump in.

Kinda like I can tease and hassle my little brother, but if you touch him, we'll BOTH kick your ass.

Besides...............on every Marine's Leave and Earnings Statement (LES) it says "Department of the Navy" at the top.

Yep..................the Marines are the little brothers of the Navy.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, we had a law in place that already limited the amount of ammo you could send downrange before you had to reload. It was enacted and passed during the Reagan administration.

It was called the Brady Bill.

Why can't we go back to that? I think that the repeal of that was unnecessary, especially in light of the fact Reagan was shot.

Why do we need it? Because a crazed rich kid in love with an actress shot a couple people? Why punish the entire citizenry for the actions of a nut job? Reagan also closed the mental institutions. Why aren't you bitching about that?

If it was such a good idea then, why is it such a bad idea now? If the Brady bill had still been in effect, then maybe the mass shootings where the shooters had use of up to 100 rounds before reloading wouldn't have happened.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Didn't you take an oath to defend the Constitution? Do you happen to know what it says? JW

The constitution says that "the people" as a whole are allowed to bear arms to form "well regulated militias"

Basically, there is a collective right for civilians to form an armed force to stand by in readiness to defend the country. The second amendment is therefore fulfilled by the existence of the U.S military

No, there is no collective right. You don't understand what you're reading.

The right to bear arms is the right of INDIVIDUALS to be in the militia. It's simple, the founding fathers said it loads of times and the right and left have ignored millions of times.

Except you are dropping the part that says (the right of the people to keep and bear arms) which was added on by the States (the people) and reinforced the individuals right.

What are you going on about? I didn't drop anything. We're talking about ONE PART of the Amendment. Christ.

You dropped the part of history of States adding the last sentence to the 2nd Amendment.
Without it the original Amendments would not have been passed.

I also dropped who won the Superbowl in 1963. Shock horror.

The fact is I was talking about the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS, and I was presenting EVIDENCE from something and posting the RELEVANT PARTS.

Seriously dude, you need to read what I wrote, because this is like having a conversation with a 5 year old.

 

[Divine Wind]

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

Disagreed. OTOH, IIRC, you served yourself. Would you please share your service record? Even a brief one?

In fairness, mine is Marine Corps 1975-1985, Navy 1985-1991, Naval Reserve 1991-1997. Retired Navy, still a Marine.

Q: What do you call a Marine with half a brain?
A: Gifted.


Q: What do you call a Sailor with half a brain?
A: Marine.

That's just for you Divine Wind.

Me? Active duty from July 1982 until August 2002, retired USN.

Marines are proud and happy to let Sailors tell jokes about them. We need the ride to get real work done.

Know why the Navy allows the Marines to ride on their ships?

Sheep are too obvious.

Yeah................learned that while I was in A school. We had a bunch of Marines on the base with us and we'd fight like cats and dogs on the weekend at the base club, but let some civilians out in town start hassling one of us? ALL of us jump in.

Kinda like I can tease and hassle my little brother, but if you touch him, we'll BOTH kick your ass.

Besides...............on every Marine's Leave and Earnings Statement (LES) it says "Department of the Navy" at the top.

Yep..................the Marines are the little brothers of the Navy.

Correct, the Marine Corps is a Department of the Navy.....the Men's Department.

What ships were you on? I've been on a few for dets, but deployed for months aboard the Saratoga and Independence.

 

[Divine Wind]

If it was such a good idea then, why is it such a bad idea now? If the Brady bill had still been in effect, then maybe the mass shootings where the shooters had use of up to 100 rounds before reloading wouldn't have happened.

If the Patriot Act was such a good idea then, why is it such a bad idea now? Because ideas born from panic are usually emotional and not logical.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Epitaph on the Wall: PROUD TO DIE TAKING A RICH KID'S PLACE

All your Right Wing chickenhawk heroes had rich Daddies who got them to weasel out of serving in Vietnam. Real patriots would have formed up armed at prep-school graduations and marched the spoiled brats right over to the active-duty Induction Station. I don't care if you got a Medal of Honor in Vietnam; if you supported Dubya's privilege to get out of having to fight there, YOU HAVE NO HONOR.

Disagreed. OTOH, IIRC, you served yourself. Would you please share your service record? Even a brief one?

In fairness, mine is Marine Corps 1975-1985, Navy 1985-1991, Naval Reserve 1991-1997. Retired Navy, still a Marine.

Q: What do you call a Marine with half a brain?
A: Gifted.


Q: What do you call a Sailor with half a brain?
A: Marine.

That's just for you Divine Wind.

Me? Active duty from July 1982 until August 2002, retired USN.

Marines are proud and happy to let Sailors tell jokes about them. We need the ride to get real work done.

Know why the Navy allows the Marines to ride on their ships?

Sheep are too obvious.

Yeah................learned that while I was in A school. We had a bunch of Marines on the base with us and we'd fight like cats and dogs on the weekend at the base club, but let some civilians out in town start hassling one of us? ALL of us jump in.

Kinda like I can tease and hassle my little brother, but if you touch him, we'll BOTH kick your ass.

Besides...............on every Marine's Leave and Earnings Statement (LES) it says "Department of the Navy" at the top.

Yep..................the Marines are the little brothers of the Navy.

Correct, the Marine Corps is a Department of the Navy.....the Men's Department.

What ships were you on? I've been on a few for dets, but deployed for months aboard the Saratoga and Independence.

Men's department..................probably the best comeback that I've ever heard for that. Not bad Divine, not bad.

What ships? USS CONCORD (AFS-5), VFA-131 (deployed on both the USS DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER (CVN-69) and the USS GEORGE WASHINGTON (CVN-73)), and finally, my last ship was my very first ship, although it had gone from the Navy to MSC, and that was the USS CONCORD (T-AFS-5).

I thought it was kinda cool that my very first ship would also be my very last, but converted over to MSC. Reported onboard the CONCORD as an E-1, and left the first time as an E-4. Came back to it as an E-6 Department Head.

Kinda cool, because almost nobody gets to do something like that.