A lot of Atheist and agnostics just don't get it

[OnePercenter]

It appears from all that they post here that they cannot perceive the Spirit that calls forth, comforts and keeps those who remain in faith and believe.

When truth is diligently sought it can open doors unimaginable.

Organized religion is a $1.2T bilk.

Faith and $4.26 will buy you a Venti Latte at Starbucks.

Truth DOES open doors, but that has nothing to do with faith.

 

[RodISHI]

As some posts in this thread show many of the atheist and agnostics for some reason cannot separate in their minds the difference between individual faith and organized religion. Poor things cannot see anything existing beyond their own flesh.

 

[Meriweather]

As some posts in this thread show many of the atheist and agnostics for some reason cannot separate in their minds the difference between individual faith and organized religion. Poor things cannot see anything existing beyond their own flesh.

Perhaps that is because we of faith do such a poor job of showing how the two should work TOGETHER in harmony, which is the optimal.

Those of us who are neither ashamed of faith or religion experience this, especially when we understand how a well or a pond works. When water is not drawn from a well, the well dries up. When water does not both enter and leave a pond, the pond stagnates. We of individual faith draw from the religious community (made up of those with individual faith) and we pour forth both in that community and those outside the community. Those who stick purely with individual faith become like the dry well or the stagnant pond.

Yes, religious organizations can be a pain or a shame--which is why individuals with faith are needed to keep the organization on track. We are more than capable of this.

 

[RodISHI]

As some posts in this thread show many of the atheist and agnostics for some reason cannot separate in their minds the difference between individual faith and organized religion. Poor things cannot see anything existing beyond their own flesh.

Perhaps that is because we of faith do such a poor job of showing how the two should work TOGETHER in harmony, which is the optimal.

Those of us who are neither ashamed of faith or religion experience this, especially when we understand how a well or a pond works. When water is not drawn from a well, the well dries up. When water does not both enter and leave a pond, the pond stagnates. We of individual faith draw from the religious community (made up of those with individual faith) and we pour forth both in that community and those outside the community. Those who stick purely with individual faith become like the dry well or the stagnant pond.

Yes, religious organizations can be a pain or a shame--which is why individuals with faith are needed to keep the organization on track. We are more than capable of this.

Many do not belong to a religious organization yet these people seem to have it in their minds that everyone does.

I do agree with you that it should be the members of faith that should keep their organizations on the straight and narrow path but just like in Jesus's day they have preconceived ideas and notions and if anyone mentions they are in error that one will be an outcast. They are adamant that they are right and refuse any sound correction or notions that they got it wrong (btw, I'm sure Hashev will be along shortly to put in his two cents of bullshit). Nothing new under the sun. Here's the rub; they bring forth such hate as is exhibited in this forum as they are apparently not standing in that 'right place' or they have a heck of a lot to learn about how the spirit works. Many believe, have faith or a hope but have no clue how the spirit works as that has not been taught in the churches.

Our well stays full when its not drawn from and it overflows. It only gets nasty when the leaves are not removed from the gutters as it fills from spring in the bottom and from the rain from the top. A good pond is dug where it has a constant feed of fresh water but even so if the rains are stopped up for awhile that feed may cease and then stagnation may occur until new rains come forth.

While the Philistines are in control of the first wells dug those who are getting their water from them are drinking water that is tainted with whatever the Philistines desire to put into it. It is akin to drinking the fluoridated water in control of the bureaucrats and corporations who are attempting to keep the masses passive.

 

[Taz]

As some posts in this thread show many of the atheist and agnostics for some reason cannot separate in their minds the difference between individual faith and organized religion. Poor things cannot see anything existing beyond their own flesh.

If you believe in the bible, that's organized religion, no matter how much of an individual you think you are.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

As some posts in this thread show many of the atheist and agnostics for some reason cannot separate in their minds the difference between individual faith and organized religion. Poor things cannot see anything existing beyond their own flesh.

Example? Or just baseless complaining?

 

[diver52]

It appears from all that they post here that they cannot perceive the Spirit that calls forth, comforts and keeps those who remain in faith and believe.

When truth is diligently sought it can open doors unimaginable.

Well, I for one fully admit that I just don't get it. I assume from all the posts you are a Christian and I just don't get how anyone can find comfort in that. To me if is incredibly negative and hopeless, but I understand you don't see it that way. Perhaps we each find that which we need and all of it is truth.

 

[Meriweather]

Well, I for one fully admit that I just don't get it. I assume from all the posts you are a Christian and I just don't get how anyone can find comfort in that. To me if is incredibly negative and hopeless, but I understand you don't see it that way. Perhaps we each find that which we need and all of it is truth.

What is negative and hopeless about it?

 

[diver52]

Well, I for one fully admit that I just don't get it. I assume from all the posts you are a Christian and I just don't get how anyone can find comfort in that. To me if is incredibly negative and hopeless, but I understand you don't see it that way. Perhaps we each find that which we need and all of it is truth.

What is negative and hopeless about it?

The notion of Jesus dying for our sins, for example. I cannot imagine seeing a god which requires someone be tortured to death as a payment engendering hope. I cannot see a god which thinks hell was a good idea as engendering hope. The idea that one is sinful for just being alive is negative. I really don't get the appeal at all. But, if you do then I am happy for you.

 

[Slyhunter]

It appears from all that they post here that they cannot perceive the Spirit that calls forth, comforts and keeps those who remain in faith and believe.

When truth is diligently sought it can open doors unimaginable.

Maybe the bible is written by Satan and he wants you sheep to come to him so he can absorb your spirits and destroy you after death thinking your going to heaven. Prove me wrong.

 

[Slyhunter]

As some posts in this thread show many of the atheist and agnostics for some reason cannot separate in their minds the difference between individual faith and organized religion. Poor things cannot see anything existing beyond their own flesh.

I don't think Agnostics have a problem with individual religious rights or displays of such. As far as we know there is a God and we wouldn't want to piss him off dissing the believers.

Atheist on the other hand, they can be heartless I got mine **** yours kind of people who want to turn the planet into a heartless darwinistic experiment in survival.

 

[Vandalshandle]

It appears from all that they post here that they cannot perceive the Spirit that calls forth, comforts and keeps those who remain in faith and believe.

When truth is diligently sought it can open doors unimaginable.

I think that a more relative question is, What's it to you how we believe?

 

[Meriweather]

The notion of Jesus dying for our sins, for example. I cannot imagine seeing a god which requires someone be tortured to death as a payment engendering hope. I cannot see a god which thinks hell was a good idea as engendering hope. The idea that one is sinful for just being alive is negative. I really don't get the appeal at all. But, if you do then I am happy for you.

The full story emerges with in depth study of the cultures and histories of that time. It is a shame that today we end up with a summary of the shorthand version that you present quite well.

Erase that board, and all that has developed in the last two thousand years. You are now immersed in another culture, a culture where forgiveness of sins is attained by making a sacrifice or an offering at the Temple. The present day economy depends on this just as much as today's economy depends on fleecing the youth by pretty much mandating a college education--including a Masters Degree--for career advancement.

Like the majority of Jews in that time, you live in poverty, as the Romans have taken over your property and forced you into a serf-like servitude. You would very much like to make that offering at the Temple and have your sins forgiven...but you cannot bear to see your family go hungry.

Then along comes this itinerant preacher who says it is not Temple Offering for forgiveness of sins--it is repentance (turning away from that sin) and doing the will of God for the forgiveness of sins. Temple authorities begin to see the effect this sentiment has in loss of Temple revenue. They tell Jesus to cease and desist--that he has no authority to proclaim any such thing. Jesus tells them his authority comes from God, his Father. This incenses the authorities more, and they demand to see a sign that Jesus has been given any such authority. This would be a new covenant, and covenants include a blood (animal) sacrifice.

Jesus would not decease and desist, and he insisted his Father (with whom he was one with) gave him this authority. He would not stay silent and so the Temple authorities arranged for his death. The Covenant now had a blood sacrifice...and Jesus arose from the dead. Indeed, repentance for the forgiveness of sins was indeed the New Covenant (Testament).

And, yes, those who follow Jesus' Way of turning from sin and discerning and obeying the will of the Father can point to Jesus who died to bring this New Covenant about where their sins are indeed forgiven. Keep in mind both Jews and Christians believe it is God who forgives sins. The Jewish symbol of this was the Temple; the Christian symbol is the crucified Christ or the cross.

As far as hell...Catholic teaching is that God sends no one to hell--people choose to go there. How? First there must be a belief in God and a total rejection of who He is and the ideals He presents. Alternately, if someone has no belief in God, then it is a matter of actively choosing over and over again evil, not goodness. Since God is all good, such people have no wish to be in His presence. Hell is an absence of God, and it is a choice.

Finally, people are not sinful just for being alive. People are imperfect and they fall short of the ideal mark--that is simply human nature. We also (or most of us) have the wish to be the best we can be, to reach the ideal mark--and that is human nature, too. God calls each of us to pursue that ideal--and not to lose hope the times we fall short. Those times are readily forgiven as we try once more to reach the epitome of doing God's will on earth as it is done in heaven.

Courage and persistence cannot help but lift my spirits--and Jesus portrayed both. So did many Old Testament figures.

 

[RodISHI]

It appears from all that they post here that they cannot perceive the Spirit that calls forth, comforts and keeps those who remain in faith and believe.

When truth is diligently sought it can open doors unimaginable.

Maybe the bible is written by Satan and he wants you sheep to come to him so he can absorb your spirits and destroy you after death thinking your going to heaven. Prove me wrong.

I don't need to "prove you wrong". If you don't believe that is your problem not mine.

I will ask a question though if you are up to answering it. Have you ever dreamed you were falling but awoke before you hit the ground?

As some posts in this thread show many of the atheist and agnostics for some reason cannot separate in their minds the difference between individual faith and organized religion. Poor things cannot see anything existing beyond their own flesh.

I don't think Agnostics have a problem with individual religious rights or displays of such. As far as we know there is a God and we wouldn't want to piss him off dissing the believers.

Atheist on the other hand, they can be heartless I got mine **** yours kind of people who want to turn the planet into a heartless darwinistic experiment in survival.

I have met some pretty gracious people who claim to be atheist so I'd have to disagree with you based on my own personal experience. On the other hand I've had some pretty nasty hate filled crap tossed out by both agnostics and atheist, as well of some pretty nasty self proclaimed Christians and those who claim to be Jews. People are individuals no matter who tries to claim that they are all going to fit in one little box and all are subjected to the spirits that rule over them in this world unless they have learned to overcome.

 

[Vandalshandle]

As some posts in this thread show many of the atheist and agnostics for some reason cannot separate in their minds the difference between individual faith and organized religion. Poor things cannot see anything existing beyond their own flesh.

I don't think Agnostics have a problem with individual religious rights or displays of such. As far as we know there is a God and we wouldn't want to piss him off dissing the believers.

Atheist on the other hand, they can be heartless I got mine **** yours kind of people who want to turn the planet into a heartless darwinistic experiment in survival.

Interesting spin on atheists. Totally false, but an interesting spin.

 

[RodISHI]

It appears from all that they post here that they cannot perceive the Spirit that calls forth, comforts and keeps those who remain in faith and believe.

When truth is diligently sought it can open doors unimaginable.

I think that a more relative question is, What's it to you how we believe?

That same goes for those who do not believe. It is not up to me to 'change your mind' or force feed you ideology or beliefs anymore than it is up to you to try to force your ideology or beliefs on me. You are free to do whatever you wish within the boundaries of the law. As long as you are not trespassing in my space or interfering with my personal life or my children's lives have at it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It appears from all that they post here that they cannot perceive the Spirit that calls forth, comforts and keeps those who remain in faith and believe.

When truth is diligently sought it can open doors unimaginable.

I think that a more relative question is, What's it to you how we believe?

Well, you see Timmy, that man over there thinks we're all going to burn in hell forever and ever, if we dont believe exactly as he says we should.

 

[anotherlife]

Agnostics don't assume the existence of God. But do they assume the existence of Satan?

 

[Slyhunter]

It appears from all that they post here that they cannot perceive the Spirit that calls forth, comforts and keeps those who remain in faith and believe.

When truth is diligently sought it can open doors unimaginable.

Maybe the bible is written by Satan and he wants you sheep to come to him so he can absorb your spirits and destroy you after death thinking your going to heaven. Prove me wrong.

I don't need to "prove you wrong". If you don't believe that is your problem not mine.

I will ask a question though if you are up to answering it. Have you ever dreamed you were falling but awoke before you hit the ground?

Yes. I plopped down in bed from mid air.

 

[Slyhunter]

Agnostics don't assume the existence of God. But do they assume the existence of Satan?

No. The believe we mortals have no idea what is or is not going to be present after death, if anything at all.