A lot of Atheist and agnostics just don't get it

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Why should it trouble me if I were born elsewhere (or else-when) that I might be of a different faith (or no faith at all?

Because it should give you pause that your current faith is equally wrong and nonsensical.

 

[Meriweather]

Because it should give you pause that your current faith is equally wrong and nonsensical.

One doesn't meet up with God and call faith (any faith) nonsensical.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Because it should give you pause that your current faith is equally wrong and nonsensical.

One doesn't meet up with God and call faith (any faith) nonsensical.

so, one doesn't have faith and also think faith is nonsensical.

Wow, thats deep.

Unfortunately,you committed a fallacy for no reason, as i was not speaking to faith in general. We are being more specific about dogma.

 

[Meriweather]

We are being more specific about dogma.

Then be specific. I addressed what was written, and that written word was "faith" not "dogma". Remember, it was you who responded to me, and I had been discussing faith. What "dogma" do you believe is nonsensical? And why?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Then be specific.

I was. I directly answered your question. Why should it bother you that you would have simply adopted an entirely difgerent set of dogma, had you been born in another place and/or time?

Because it should give you pause to think that your current dogma is utter nonsense.

I cant be any more direct. You tbought you asked a rhetorical question that nobody would or could answer. Well, i answered it. Now you are flummoxed.

 

[Meriweather]

I was. I directly answered your question. Why should it bother you that you would have simply adopted an entirely difgerent set of dogma, had you been born in another place and/or time?

Because it should give you pause to think that your current dogma is utter nonsense.

I cant be any more direct. You tbought you asked a rhetorical question that nobody would or could answer. Well, i answered it. Now you are flummoxed.

Did you read my original post responding to Hollie? I said being born into another faith wouldn't bother me in the least, because I think, given the proper upbringing, I could have made a good Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. In other words, I would have been presented with an alternate perspective to pretty much the same dogma...i.e., God is. I do not consider anyone's faith or dogma "nonsense". And it doesn't bother me that you believe I should.

 

[Third Party]

Agnostics totally don't get it. That's because this world is but like drawing in sand upon the beach. Their imaginary heroes, The 1996 Los Angelas SWAT team (which will subdue all of us one-handed) will be the beginning of the breaking of illusion upon the populous of LA>

Environment
Electricity
Excelsior
Enemas
Eyes

WTF was that?

I think that happens when you are banned.

 

[BreezeWood]

Again the only person who is expecting magic is you

Shameless, embarrassing lie. Magic is precisely what you expect from your iron aged fairy tale. Magical souls, magical miracles, magical afterlife, magical sky daddies, zombie kings, etc etc. Ding, you seem to be under the hilariously wrong impression that saying something isn't true makes it not true, even when you and everyone else knows it is true. And that is what religion does to a brain. Or, being 3 years old.

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Ding, you seem to be under the hilariously wrong impression that saying something isn't true makes it not true, even when you and everyone else knows it is true.

bing and the entire christian community - that rely on a forged document for their religious beliefs.

the documents of all three desert religions have abandoned the true religion of antiquity - with reckless disregard of the truth for their own personal gratification.

 

[Hollie]

I was. I directly answered your question. Why should it bother you that you would have simply adopted an entirely difgerent set of dogma, had you been born in another place and/or time?

Because it should give you pause to think that your current dogma is utter nonsense.

I cant be any more direct. You tbought you asked a rhetorical question that nobody would or could answer. Well, i answered it. Now you are flummoxed.

Did you read my original post responding to Hollie? I said being born into another faith wouldn't bother me in the least, because I think, given the proper upbringing, I could have made a good Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. In other words, I would have been presented with an alternate perspective to pretty much the same dogma...i.e., God is. I do not consider anyone's faith or dogma "nonsense". And it doesn't bother me that you believe I should.

I’m not sure if that was an intentionally honest admission but it does speak directly to people’s religious belief; those beliefs are rarely more than happenstance of geographic place of birth.

Overwhelmingly, people inherit their theistic beliefs. Rarely do they apply very hard standards to those beliefs. The beliefs tend to be cultural (i.e., you grew up in a social environment that preferred one belief over another.

 

[Hollie]

I’m not aware of anyone needing excuses or religious forums to “not believe” in partisan gods. I see not believing in supernatural entities as a rational conclusion.

What I read in these threads are a lot of bad analogies, false representations and huge stretches of bent and mangled "reasoning" in a hoped-for attempt to reach a predefined conclusion. That's intellectually dishonest.

What are "partisan gods"? Who are those who believe in them? Why do you participate in discussions you believe to be intellectually dishonest?

It appears to me that you have dreamt up a god in whom you do not believe--yet are absolutely positive that everyone else does. Intellectually, that is called projecting.

Partisan gods are the gods people inherent as a part of their upbringing. You must have heard that different cultures have different gods.

Why would a theist participate in a discussion wherein they make explicit references to supernatural entities and then take offense when tasked with supporting such a claim?

I can advise that I have not made any appeals to partisan supernatural entities that people refer to as “gods”. It is not me who has dreamt up these gods as I am not the one insisting they are extant.

Actually, sociologists would call that “sympathetic magic”

 

[ding]

Again the only person who is expecting magic is you

Shameless, embarrassing lie. Magic is precisely what you expect from your iron aged fairy tale. Magical souls, magical miracles, magical afterlife, magical sky daddies, zombie kings, etc etc. Ding, you seem to be under the hilariously wrong impression that saying something isn't true makes it not true, even when you and everyone else knows it is true. And that is what religion does to a brain. Or, being 3 years old.

Nope. You are the one that believes I believe that what exists beyond space and time is magic. I believe it is more like a mind without a body that created the material world from nothing so that beings that know and create can create smart things too.

You aren’t capable of a serious discussion so you revert to silly characterizations of my beliefs.

 

[Meriweather]

I’m not sure if that was an intentionally honest admission but it does speak directly to people’s religious belief; those beliefs are rarely more than happenstance of geographic place of birth.

Overwhelmingly, people inherit their theistic beliefs. Rarely do they apply very hard standards to those beliefs. The beliefs tend to be cultural (i.e., you grew up in a social environment that preferred one belief over another.

That is no "admission". It is a simple statement of fact. There is no reason to search for an argument. Overwhelmingly, people also inherit what they are taught. Had I been born in an Indian, Chinese, or African village, I would have been taught different topics than are taught in America--if I was taught at all. I do not understand why the astonishment of people being taught the religion(s) of their parents and grandparents. To me it is like being astonished that my grandmother taught me to crochet, and then shaking your finger at me because had I been born into another family I might have learned wood carving. You have not made an astonishing new discovery about religion or education. Most of us figure this out about age five, not decades!

 

[Meriweather]

I can advise that I have not made any appeals to partisan supernatural entities that people refer to as “gods”. It is not me who has dreamt up these gods as I am not the one insisting they are extant.

You are dreaming and imagining that people are dreaming up God. The reality is that many people, down through all ages and all cultures, have had actual experiences of God. Many of us can say, "Because of my faith, my life has taken this direction." We can easily see how things may have turned out differently had it not been for faith.

Having no belief is not a big deal. To paraphrase Jesus, just as doctors do not show up to heal the healthy, nor did he come for the spiritually healthy, but for sinners and those in trouble. I was such a one. My grandfather and husband are two who were not. You are in good company.

 

[Hollie]

I’m not sure if that was an intentionally honest admission but it does speak directly to people’s religious belief; those beliefs are rarely more than happenstance of geographic place of birth.

Overwhelmingly, people inherit their theistic beliefs. Rarely do they apply very hard standards to those beliefs. The beliefs tend to be cultural (i.e., you grew up in a social environment that preferred one belief over another.

That is no "admission". It is a simple statement of fact. There is no reason to search for an argument. Overwhelmingly, people also inherit what they are taught. Had I been born in an Indian, Chinese, or African village, I would have been taught different topics than are taught in America--if I was taught at all. I do not understand why the astonishment of people being taught the religion(s) of their parents and grandparents. To me it is like being astonished that my grandmother taught me to crochet, and then shaking your finger at me because had I been born into another family I might have learned wood carving. You have not made an astonishing new discovery about religion or education. Most of us figure this out about age five, not decades!

Your comparisons are a bit strange. Somehow, I suspect your grandmother was not threatening you with eternal torment (and eternal torment for all your offspring), if you had misbehaved.

Otherwise, I just found it surprising that you would admit your belief in gods are capricious and subject to mere happenstance.

 

[Meriweather]

Your comparisons are a bit strange. Somehow, I suspect your grandmother was not threatening you with eternal torment (and eternal torment for all your offspring), if you had misbehaved.

Otherwise, I just found it surprising that you would admit your belief in gods are capricious and subject to mere happenstance.

Of course I was never threatened with eternal torment, etc. at home, in church, or in religion class. What kind of religion/people did you grow up with? God is not capricious. He reaches out to all. He cares deeply about us. That does not mean He carefully wraps us in cotton batting and places us carefully out of harms way. It means He cares about all we are going through.

He would care about me whether I was Hindu, Buddhist, Jew, Muslim, Christian, atheist...because that is who God is. This is not a difficult concept to understand. The Catholic catechism puts it like this: The Church teaches the Way Jesus taught because that is all it has the authority to teach. If someone wishes to be Hindu, Jew, Muslim, etc., it won't do them any good to become Catholic. The Church only knows one way. Every other way is left to the love and mercy of God, our Father/Creator. And God's hands are very good hands to be in. Catholicism is the way for me. Atheism, Judaism, Buddhism, Protestant Christianity are the ways of other close family members and it all seems to work great for them as well.

 

[Hollie]

Your comparisons are a bit strange. Somehow, I suspect your grandmother was not threatening you with eternal torment (and eternal torment for all your offspring), if you had misbehaved.

Otherwise, I just found it surprising that you would admit your belief in gods are capricious and subject to mere happenstance.

Of course I was never threatened with eternal torment, etc. at home, in church, or in religion class. What kind of religion/people did you grow up with? God is not capricious. He reaches out to all. He cares deeply about us. That does not mean He carefully wraps us in cotton batting and places us carefully out of harms way. It means He cares about all we are going through.

He would care about me whether I was Hindu, Buddhist, Jew, Muslim, Christian, atheist...because that is who God is. This is not a difficult concept to understand. The Catholic catechism puts it like this: The Church teaches the Way Jesus taught because that is all it has the authority to teach. If someone wishes to be Hindu, Jew, Muslim, etc., it won't do them any good to become Catholic. The Church only knows one way. Every other way is left to the love and mercy of God, our Father/Creator. And God's hands are very good hands to be in. Catholicism is the way for me. Atheism, Judaism, Buddhism, Protestant Christianity are the ways of other close family members and it all seems to work great for them as well.

I’m not sure why you think the Christian gods would have an interest in your wellbeing if you were a Hindu or Buddhist. I suspect most Hindus and Buddhists would take offense if you tried to impose your gods on them or assume that your gods somehow held primacy over their gods.

Why not assume that the Hindu gods are primary and that it is they who will intercede on behalf of the lesser Christian gods.

 

[Meriweather]

I’m not sure why you think the Christian gods would have an interest in your wellbeing if you were a Hindu or Buddhist. I suspect most Hindus and Buddhists would take offense if you tried to impose your gods on them or assume that your gods somehow held primacy over their gods.

Why not assume that the Hindu gods are primary and that it is they who will intercede on behalf of the lesser Christian gods.

I think of God as One. My daughter's high school friend and college roommate thought of Gods as many. Neither of us considered the other's thinking an imposition on our own. That is like thinking it is an imposition to others to favor one political party over another. I do not impose my political party on others, and I do not impose my religious beliefs on others.

 

[Hollie]

I’m not sure why you think the Christian gods would have an interest in your wellbeing if you were a Hindu or Buddhist. I suspect most Hindus and Buddhists would take offense if you tried to impose your gods on them or assume that your gods somehow held primacy over their gods.

Why not assume that the Hindu gods are primary and that it is they who will intercede on behalf of the lesser Christian gods.

I think of God as One. My daughter's high school friend and college roommate thought of Gods as many. Neither of us considered the other's thinking an imposition on our own. That is like thinking it is an imposition to others to favor one political party over another. I do not impose my political party on others, and I do not impose my religious beliefs on others.

You may think of the gods as one but that doesn’t account for the hundreds of inventions of gods sitting in judgement over past and present cultures.

The essential uniqueness / primacy describing any of the past or present gods lies in the claims of their uniqueness / primacy made by the inventors of those gods. We can find common traits in all the gods invented by humans as all those gods find common ground in human frailty, feeds and superstitions.

It’s not at all a coincidence that as mankind has grown and learned about his environment that the gods and their role in operating existence have been reduced to some rather menial administrative duties.

There’s just not much need these days for operational gods of thunder and lightning.

 

[BreezeWood]

I’m not sure why you think the Christian gods would have an interest in your wellbeing if you were a Hindu or Buddhist. I suspect most Hindus and Buddhists would take offense if you tried to impose your gods on them or assume that your gods somehow held primacy over their gods.

Why not assume that the Hindu gods are primary and that it is they who will intercede on behalf of the lesser Christian gods.

I think of God as One. My daughter's high school friend and college roommate thought of Gods as many. Neither of us considered the other's thinking an imposition on our own. That is like thinking it is an imposition to others to favor one political party over another. I do not impose my political party on others, and I do not impose my religious beliefs on others.

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I do not impose my political party on others, and I do not impose my religious beliefs on others.

liar ...

"Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works." 2 John 1:9-11

until you remove the forgeries from your 4th century document you as your predecessors will be condemned by the Almighty.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

In other words, I would have been presented with an alternate perspective to pretty much the same dogma...i.e., God is.

That's not accurate at all. For one, that is merely theism. Second, not all religions are theistic, or monotheistic. Third, if you are trying to misrepresent your beliefs as in total veing only "god is", you are almost certainly being dishonest.