A conservative who is for universal health care

[Michael44]

I am a 43 year old conservative male. I am not a fan of Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid. I didn't vote for Obama and I generally believe in the principle of liberty, personal responsibility and freedom. I am not for a welfare nanny state and I fully support capitalism etc etc.

Yet I find myself hoping that as a nation we can get some kind of universal health care. (am I being hypocritical because I am against a welfare state, well maybe)
When I was a student back in the late 80's I applied to Blue Cross and Blue Shield for simple health insurance only to be denied because I was honest and put down ulcerative colitis in my health history. My colitis is a very rare form(thank goodness) where I have virtually no symptoms and no other problems related to it. I was told "off the record" by one insurance agent to just omit that. Here I was a 22 year old full time student who wasn't working at the time trying to get health insurance but couldn't.

Fast forward to about 6 years ago. I had just left a company about to be hired by another when I got struck with vertigo, vomiting and equilibrium problems and had to be seen at an emergency room. Well I had lost my insurance from my old job that I had just left and hadn't even started the new job yet which left me without insurance. So I was stuck with thousands of dollars of medical bills that now had to come out of my own pocket until the 3 month health insurance plan kicked in with my new job.

I just don't believe it's right for people to ever be denied health insurance for pre-existing conditions like I was or to have their backs broken financially because of circumstances not of their own doing.


Michael

 

[veritas]

I think the only people that don't want it think they are invincible and that they can never lose their jobs. This is ridiculous, but they are intractable.

 

[xsited1]

I am a 43 year old conservative male. I am not a fan of Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid. I didn't vote for Obama and I generally believe in the principle of liberty, personal responsibility and freedom. I am not for a welfare nanny state and I fully support capitalism etc etc.

Yet I find myself hoping that as a nation we can get some kind of universal health care. (am I being hypocritical because I am against a welfare state, well maybe)
When I was a student back in the late 80's I applied to Blue Cross and Blue Shield for simple health insurance only to be denied because I was honest and put down ulcerative colitis in my health history. My colitis is a very rare form(thank goodness) where I have virtually no symptoms and no other problems related to it. I was told "off the record" by one insurance agent to just omit that. Here I was a 22 year old full time student who wasn't working at the time trying to get health insurance but couldn't.

Fast forward to about 6 years ago. I had just left a company about to be hired by another when I got struck with vertigo, vomiting and equilibrium problems and had to be seen at an emergency room. Well I had lost my insurance from my old job that I had just left and hadn't even started the new job yet which left me without insurance. So I was stuck with thousands of dollars of medical bills that now had to come out of my own pocket until the 3 month health insurance plan kicked in with my new job.

I just don't believe it's right for people to ever be denied health insurance for pre-existing conditions like I was or to have their backs broken financially because of circumstances not of their own doing.


Michael

So you let your health insurance lapse. Never a good idea.

 

[logical4u]

That would be health """"insurance reform""", not health care reform. Most people would welcome that; turning the medical industry to gov, everyone would suffer.
Most people do not have a problem
opening health insurance competition,
adding people that cannot get insurance to medicaid or starting a new program for them
tort reform
making illegals pay for their care AND sending them back to country of origin
medical savings accounts (where the gov doesn't have access)
tax breaks for paying for services out-of pocket.

Universal health """"care"""" gives the gov control over the medical industry. There a hints about what the gov wants to control in these bills:
which schools are allowed to teach medicine
which students are allowed to become teachers
which citizens (or non-citizens) will qualify for care
the age that medical care will be discouraged
access to every citizens medical records (national id program)
access to citizens' bank accounts
the limiting of insurance choices (eventually leaving only the gov)
and the there is the other thousand pages that we don't know what rights are being taken.

 

[veritas]

That would be health """"insurance reform""", not health care reform. Most people would welcome that; turning the medical industry to gov, everyone would suffer.
Most people do not have a problem
opening health insurance competition,
adding people that cannot get insurance to medicaid or starting a new program for them
tort reform
making illegals pay for their care AND sending them back to country of origin
medical savings accounts (where the gov doesn't have access)
tax breaks for paying for services out-of pocket.

Universal health """"care"""" gives the gov control over the medical industry. There a hints about what the gov wants to control in these bills:
which schools are allowed to teach medicine
which students are allowed to become teachers
which citizens (or non-citizens) will qualify for care
the age that medical care will be discouraged
access to every citizens medical records (national id program)
access to citizens' bank accounts
the limiting of insurance choices (eventually leaving only the gov)
and the there is the other thousand pages that we don't know what rights are being taken.

Sack of lies^

 

[Michael44]

That would be health """"insurance reform""", not health care reform. Most people would welcome that; turning the medical industry to gov, everyone would suffer.
Most people do not have a problem
opening health insurance competition,
adding people that cannot get insurance to medicaid or starting a new program for them
tort reform
making illegals pay for their care AND sending them back to country of origin
medical savings accounts (where the gov doesn't have access)
tax breaks for paying for services out-of pocket.

Universal health """"care"""" gives the gov control over the medical industry. There a hints about what the gov wants to control in these bills:
which schools are allowed to teach medicine
which students are allowed to become teachers
which citizens (or non-citizens) will qualify for care
the age that medical care will be discouraged
access to every citizens medical records (national id program)
access to citizens' bank accounts
the limiting of insurance choices (eventually leaving only the gov)
and the there is the other thousand pages that we don't know what rights are being taken.

Thanks for separating the two. I am definitely for some kind of insurance reform without question. I just hope some kind of change in the system can be made. I am uneasy with any kind of government takeover of anything but I just know something has to be done..

 

[Big Black Dog]

Michael44 - You need to open your mind up long enough to read Glenn Beck's book, "Common Sense". Afterwards, then decide if you'd really like the government to take over health care.

 

[veritas]

Glenn Beck's book, "Common Sense".

yer shittin' me, that's funny.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Nice ~ahem~ first post.

No one's against health care reform. That LIE is part of the problem here. The people are simply against this far over-reaching, Marxist PLAN.

Instead of fixing the leaky roof, replacing the sagging steps, fixing the faulty plumbing and electrical, and changing out the bath water, THIS plan proposes to tear the whole house down and replace it with a new, trillion dollar one that still will have a leaky roof, sagging steps, bad plumbing and electrical, and throws the baby out with the bath water!

AND tries to pack millions more into it without any increase in square footage!

The plan makes no sense, and the fast, hard sell just didn't fly.

If you're a conservative, you'll remember the Dems defeated health care reform back in 2003. In fact, when asked where the Democrat plan was, Nancy Pelosi said, "Why should we put a plan out? Our plan is to stop him. (Bush) He must be stopped."

So, what's their big hurry now? With this plan that is the biggest power grab in our history, and won't even go into effect until a YEAR after it's passed?

If it's so urgent, why doesn't it go into effect immediately after passage?

We can take any anecdotal horror story and use it as a basis for a stupid decision.

Pre-existing conditions? Chances are you have been struggling to make that homeowner's insurance premium every month. Why bother? Wait until after the Hurricane, flood or tornado hits. Your leveled house will be a pre-existing condition and you can get it rebuilt from the ground up without having to have spent years paying into the system!

Or, you're clocking in to start your shift at the local "Piggly Wiggly". You count your drawer before hand, and it's short $35. So you go find the manager to get this squared away, right? Wrong! That shortage is a pre-existing condition! How dare you be so insensitive as to try to refuse it? That shortage will just get passed along from shift to shift until there is no money left to put in the drawer anymore, at which time the entire Corporation can go live in Paradise where nobody will ever be responsible for anything.

Maybe global warming got you down? Perhaps your trying to reduce the size of your carbon footprint over there. You know, save the planet or something? Well, no need for that. After all, the carbon levels are a pre-existing condition! They were already high when you were born! Why should you have to pay for that, huh? You shouldn't. So tell Obama to quit pushing cap and trade, trying to make you pay out of pocket for the planet's pre-existing conditions. Who does he think he is, a health insurance company executive?

Or, maybe you're President Obama reading this. Now that you have lead us to this place of better understanding sir, it's time that we address how these changes will effect you. I keep hearing you talk about the mess you inherited from President Bush. With all due respect, you're starting to sound like a health insurance salesman. Remember, the economy you inherited was a pre-existing condition! Certainly you wouldn't be so hypocritical as to expect the insurance people to pay for mine, while you get off the hook for the ones at your job, right? So man up. Every bad thing that has ever happened in the history of this Country is your fault, sir. Unless, of course, you would like to reconsider your stance on pre-existing conditions?

Pre-existing conditions, the demagogue for this health scare reform boondoggle! The only unacceptable pre-existing condition requirements are for health insurance?

 

[Big Black Dog]

Glenn Beck's book, "Common Sense".

yer shittin' me, that's funny.

Are you so closed minded you can't accept an honest opinion of what's going on in America?

 

[veritas]

Glenn Beck's book, "Common Sense".

yer shittin' me, that's funny.

Are you so closed minded you can't accept an honest opinion of what's going on in America?

On the contrary......but I'm a nonfiction sort of person.

 

[Michael44]

Nice ~ahem~ first post.

No one's against health care reform. That LIE is part of the problem here. The people are simply against this far over-reaching, Marxist PLAN.

Instead of fixing the leaky roof, replacing the sagging steps, fixing the faulty plumbing and electrical, and changing out the bath water, THIS plan proposes to tear the whole house down and replace it with a new, trillion dollar one that still will have a leaky roof, sagging steps, bad plumbing and electrical, and throws the baby out with the bath water!

AND tries to pack millions more into it without any increase in square footage!

The plan makes no sense, and the fast, hard sell just didn't fly.

If you're a conservative, you'll remember the Dems defeated health care reform back in 2003. In fact, when asked where the Democrat plan was, Nancy Pelosi said, "Why should we put a plan out? Our plan is to stop him. (Bush) He must be stopped."

So, what's their big hurry now? With this plan that is the biggest power grab in our history, and won't even go into effect until a YEAR after it's passed?

If it's so urgent, why doesn't it go into effect immediately after passage?

We can take any anecdotal horror story and use it as a basis for a stupid decision.

Pre-existing conditions? Chances are you have been struggling to make that homeowner's insurance premium every month. Why bother? Wait until after the Hurricane, flood or tornado hits. Your leveled house will be a pre-existing condition and you can get it rebuilt from the ground up without having to have spent years paying into the system!

Or, you're clocking in to start your shift at the local "Piggly Wiggly". You count your drawer before hand, and it's short $35. So you go find the manager to get this squared away, right? Wrong! That shortage is a pre-existing condition! How dare you be so insensitive as to try to refuse it? That shortage will just get passed along from shift to shift until there is no money left to put in the drawer anymore, at which time the entire Corporation can go live in Paradise where nobody will ever be responsible for anything.

Maybe global warming got you down? Perhaps your trying to reduce the size of your carbon footprint over there. You know, save the planet or something? Well, no need for that. After all, the carbon levels are a pre-existing condition! They were already high when you were born! Why should you have to pay for that, huh? You shouldn't. So tell Obama to quit pushing cap and trade, trying to make you pay out of pocket for the planet's pre-existing conditions. Who does he think he is, a health insurance company executive?

Or, maybe you're President Obama reading this. Now that you have lead us to this place of better understanding sir, it's time that we address how these changes will effect you. I keep hearing you talk about the mess you inherited from President Bush. With all due respect, you're starting to sound like a health insurance salesman. Remember, the economy you inherited was a pre-existing condition! Certainly you wouldn't be so hypocritical as to expect the insurance people to pay for mine, while you get off the hook for the ones at your job, right? So man up. Every bad thing that has ever happened in the history of this Country is your fault, sir. Unless, of course, you would like to reconsider your stance on pre-existing conditions?

Pre-existing conditions, the demagogue for this health scare reform boondoggle! The only unacceptable pre-existing condition requirements are for health insurance?

I actually agree with much of what you say. I also believe that health insurance should not be compared to say auto insurance or homeowners insurance. Yes you are also right that we can take any "anecdotal horror story and use it as a basis for a stupid decision

In my gut I just don't believe its right for people to be denied health insurance (which absolutely happens) or to have to go bankrupt because of medical debt. Even those with insurance can get bogged down in never ending medical bills. To me the system is broken. If it's insurance reform that's needed then I am all for it.
I know the amount taken out of my paychecks for my health insurance keeps going up to astronomical rates. Something is just not right.

 

[veritas]

Insurance won't reform unless the gun is to its head and even then we will have to pull the trigger. They have all the money and all the lobbyists. They have no incentive to reform whatsoever, they make big piles of money and are willing to spend piles to keep it that way. Meanwhile, we should just eat grass and like it.

 

[wvpeach]

I am a 43 year old conservative male. I am not a fan of Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid. I didn't vote for Obama and I generally believe in the principle of liberty, personal responsibility and freedom. I am not for a welfare nanny state and I fully support capitalism etc etc.

Yet I find myself hoping that as a nation we can get some kind of universal health care. (am I being hypocritical because I am against a welfare state, well maybe)
When I was a student back in the late 80's I applied to Blue Cross and Blue Shield for simple health insurance only to be denied because I was honest and put down ulcerative colitis in my health history. My colitis is a very rare form(thank goodness) where I have virtually no symptoms and no other problems related to it. I was told "off the record" by one insurance agent to just omit that. Here I was a 22 year old full time student who wasn't working at the time trying to get health insurance but couldn't.

Fast forward to about 6 years ago. I had just left a company about to be hired by another when I got struck with vertigo, vomiting and equilibrium problems and had to be seen at an emergency room. Well I had lost my insurance from my old job that I had just left and hadn't even started the new job yet which left me without insurance. So I was stuck with thousands of dollars of medical bills that now had to come out of my own pocket until the 3 month health insurance plan kicked in with my new job.

I just don't believe it's right for people to ever be denied health insurance for pre-existing conditions like I was or to have their backs broken financially because of circumstances not of their own doing.


Michael

I wouldn't call you a hypocrite. Just a person sensible enough to realize their is a time and place for government and a time and place to keep government out of the peoples personal dealings. Making sure citizens can find work, have healthcare , food and shelter is a good role for government. Your just sensible enough to realize that.

I have watched two people die for lack of health care insurance. One a 50 year old man who lost his insurance because his steel plant shut up and went over seas. He had a heart attack probably attributable in part to the stress of losing his job. Needed a valve repaired and was denied due to no insurance. While he tried to sell his home so he could get medicaid and pay the expenses of the surgery himself he died of a second heart attack.

Another a young mother of 30 years with three young children. Her husband worked at the same steal plant. She developed stomach problems and because she had no insurance was given nexum. By the time the tumor finally got big enough to be obvious she was close to death. While my church tried to raise money for her care she also died.

Hundreds of thousands of people in this country have been denied care for their inability to pay and died . I'd say the fact you care about that and want to see that change makes you a moral anything but hypocritical person.

 

[wvpeach]

Michael44 - You need to open your mind up long enough to read Glenn Beck's book, "Common Sense". Afterwards, then decide if you'd really like the government to take over health care.

I take it you only read fiction then black dog?

 

[wvpeach]

Michael44 - You need to open your mind up long enough to read Glenn Beck's book, "Common Sense". Afterwards, then decide if you'd really like the government to take over health care.

I take it you only read fiction then black dog?

Beck would have to be put on the fiction lists.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I actually agree with much of what you say. I also believe that health insurance should not be compared to say auto insurance or homeowners insurance. Yes you are also right that we can take any "anecdotal horror story and use it as a basis for a stupid decision

In my gut I just don't believe its right for people to be denied health insurance (which absolutely happens) or to have to go bankrupt because of medical debt. Even those with insurance can get bogged down in never ending medical bills. To me the system is broken. If it's insurance reform that's needed then I am all for it.
I know the amount taken out of my paychecks for my health insurance keeps going up to astronomical rates. Something is just not right.

If health care for all should be a right, let's amend the Constitution and have the State Legislatures' ratify it, or let's have a referendum and let the people vote on it. Instead of having it crammed down our throats.

Does it look to you like they're trying to create a right by legislation? Some of the Dem leaders are even comparing this to the civil rights movement. Well, it's not a right. Should it be? That's a question for the people. Just like civil rights was.

And if you think evil old insurance is taking too big of a bite out of your check, wait until this monster of a bill, and cap and trade pass, you'll long for these good ol' days!

Wait, you actually trust these idiots?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I am a 43 year old conservative male. I am not a fan of Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid. I didn't vote for Obama and I generally believe in the principle of liberty, personal responsibility and freedom. I am not for a welfare nanny state and I fully support capitalism etc etc.

Yet I find myself hoping that as a nation we can get some kind of universal health care. (am I being hypocritical because I am against a welfare state, well maybe)
When I was a student back in the late 80's I applied to Blue Cross and Blue Shield for simple health insurance only to be denied because I was honest and put down ulcerative colitis in my health history. My colitis is a very rare form(thank goodness) where I have virtually no symptoms and no other problems related to it. I was told "off the record" by one insurance agent to just omit that. Here I was a 22 year old full time student who wasn't working at the time trying to get health insurance but couldn't.

Fast forward to about 6 years ago. I had just left a company about to be hired by another when I got struck with vertigo, vomiting and equilibrium problems and had to be seen at an emergency room. Well I had lost my insurance from my old job that I had just left and hadn't even started the new job yet which left me without insurance. So I was stuck with thousands of dollars of medical bills that now had to come out of my own pocket until the 3 month health insurance plan kicked in with my new job.

I just don't believe it's right for people to ever be denied health insurance for pre-existing conditions like I was or to have their backs broken financially because of circumstances not of their own doing.

Michael

Just read the red parts first, in that instance it was sorta you're fault since you left your job for another but did not consider your insurance coverage...now dont be mad at me i'm about to sorta agree with you

However. I too think that insurance companies should not be allowed to deny you for a pre existing condition.

I support health care reform but i am completely against hr3200. I do want us to change things so everyone can get quality insurance coverage.

The only way I will go along with universal healthcare is if the all politicians and their families must be part of the universal public plan. They MUST be on it and not be allowed to be on any other plan. This way we can ensure that they make it a good plan and dont screw us like they do with their ponzie scheme called social security.

 

[Sunni Man]

Why are so many americans against Obama's health care plan?

Obama was sent to save us.

We just need to cooperate and all will be fine.