A compromise for the left.

[Charles_Main]

So here is my idea. All this talk about Back ground checks and Gun shows got me thinking.

If we agree to require all gun owners to have a special Gun Owners License. That anyone with out a Criminal Record, or history of Mental Illness could get, and Renew Yearly so back ground checks would not have to be done at the point of sale, and we would not have to count on individual Dealers to do them.

Would you on the left agree that if it is ok to Require a license to Exercise your 2nd Amendment rights, then it must be reasonable to also require a License to vote?

I am guessing no right?

 

[gallantwarrior]

I'm with you.

 

[Saigon]

Most of the comments I have read about the voting i.d. have not been opposed to photo i.d. in principle - but largely to the way the GOP intended to manipulate it in order to disenfranchise ten million Americans.

If we suggested that ALL American voters required some form of photo i.d. by 2015, and that ALL states must make photo i.d.'s available for $10 or so, I doubt there would be a problem with it.

 

[MeBelle]

Most of the comments I have read about the voting i.d. have not been opposed to photo i.d. in principle - but largely to the way the GOP intended to manipulate it in order to disenfranchise ten million Americans.

If we suggested that ALL American voters required some form of photo i.d. by 2015, and that ALL states must make photo i.d.'s available for $10 or so, I doubt there would be a problem with it.

That would be considered a poll tax, so no.

Providing photo ID free of charge (which btw many states offered to do) would be most constitutional.

The first bolded statement is fallacy.

 

[Sarah G]

So here is my idea. All this talk about Back ground checks and Gun shows got me thinking.

If we agree to require all gun owners to have a special Gun Owners License. That anyone with out a Criminal Record, or history of Mental Illness could get, and Renew Yearly so back ground checks would not have to be done at the point of sale, and we would not have to count on individual Dealers to do them.

Would you on the left agree that if it is ok to Require a license to Exercise your 2nd Amendment rights, then it must be reasonable to also require a License to vote?

I am guessing no right?

No.

 

[MeBelle]

So here is my idea. All this talk about Back ground checks and Gun shows got me thinking.

If we agree to require all gun owners to have a special Gun Owners License. That anyone with out a Criminal Record, or history of Mental Illness could get, and Renew Yearly so back ground checks would not have to be done at the point of sale, and we would not have to count on individual Dealers to do them.

Would you on the left agree that if it is ok to Require a license to Exercise your 2nd Amendment rights, then it must be reasonable to also require a License to vote?

I am guessing no right?

Why renew yearly?
There should be no reason to have to renew. Now if someone gets arrested charged and found guilty of a felony, the license could be auto yanked.
If someone gets dx'd with a mental illness, depending on the severity IE being a threat to the public, the license could also be yanked.

I think you'll find an argument that all firearms would have to be registered. Does the Government then get to confiscate all of the firearms from someone who has lost their license?

 

[MeBelle]

So here is my idea. All this talk about Back ground checks and Gun shows got me thinking.

If we agree to require all gun owners to have a special Gun Owners License. That anyone with out a Criminal Record, or history of Mental Illness could get, and Renew Yearly so back ground checks would not have to be done at the point of sale, and we would not have to count on individual Dealers to do them.

Would you on the left agree that if it is ok to Require a license to Exercise your 2nd Amendment rights, then it must be reasonable to also require a License to vote?

I am guessing no right?

No.

Sarah, is that a yes? lol

 

[Ravi]

So here is my idea. All this talk about Back ground checks and Gun shows got me thinking.

If we agree to require all gun owners to have a special Gun Owners License. That anyone with out a Criminal Record, or history of Mental Illness could get, and Renew Yearly so back ground checks would not have to be done at the point of sale, and we would not have to count on individual Dealers to do them.

Would you on the left agree that if it is ok to Require a license to Exercise your 2nd Amendment rights, then it must be reasonable to also require a License to vote?

I am guessing no right?

Sure just make it so there is no cost to the applicant.

 

[Saigon]

The first bolded statement is fallacy.

Um...seriously?

So you the GOP started pushing for i.d. because....because.....why?

They did it for one reason and one reaso only - because disenfranchising ten million Americans would strip a massive block of Democrat voters off the polls.

And no, it wouldn't be a poll tax. A poll tax would be a poll tax. You pay for a passport. You pay for a driver's license.

 

[MeBelle]

The first bolded statement is fallacy.

Um...seriously?

And no, it wouldn't be a poll tax. A poll tax would be a poll tax. You pay for a passport. You pay for a driver's license.

Yes, seriously.

One of the arguments against voter ID was charging $$ to get a voter ID, IE a fee to be able to vote, also known as a poll tax.

 

[Saigon]

MaBelle -

Why would a photo i.d. be used only to vote?

Why couldn't it also be used as i.d. in bars, with using checks etc?

 

[MeBelle]

MaBelle -

Why would a photo i.d. be used only to vote?

Why couldn't it also be used as i.d. in bars, with using checks etc?

I get what you're saying.

It was a large leap to think that people didn't already have ID's in order to cash checks, get on plane, buy alcohol and even cigarettes.

However, the argument was about voter ID and cost associated with it.

Here are a few threads about it:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/252166-voter-id.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/240391-74-support-voter-id-laws.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/243643-judge-strikes-down-voter-id-law.html

 

[Oldguy]

I don't have a problem with your idea, but would expand it a little.

Why not a national ID card? It's been suggested before and would be little different from a state-issued drivers license used for identification purposes. And, like the Commercial Drivers License, it could have endorsements one could apply for which indicate the legal ability to vote, drive a car or purchase a fire arm. That way, one card works for all three things.

I know, there are some legal and states rights hurdles to overcome because each state sets its own requirements for voting or driving and all elections are state operated (we do not have national elections), but the CDL is a good example of what could be done. Every state has to have the same requirements to issue it, so the same thing could be done for voting and firearms purchase too.

However, getting that through such a divided Congress, and on such a demagogued issue as guns, would be difficult to say the least.

 

[Saigon]

It was a large leap to think that people didn't already have ID's in order to cash checks, get on plane, buy alcohol and even cigarettes.

The figure I have heard used most often is eleven million Americans.

I was surprised, too.

 

[uscitizen]

So here is my idea. All this talk about Back ground checks and Gun shows got me thinking.

If we agree to require all gun owners to have a special Gun Owners License. That anyone with out a Criminal Record, or history of Mental Illness could get, and Renew Yearly so back ground checks would not have to be done at the point of sale, and we would not have to count on individual Dealers to do them.

Would you on the left agree that if it is ok to Require a license to Exercise your 2nd Amendment rights, then it must be reasonable to also require a License to vote?

I am guessing no right?

Why renew yearly?
There should be no reason to have to renew. Now if someone gets arrested charged and found guilty of a felony, the license could be auto yanked.
If someone gets dx'd with a mental illness, depending on the severity IE being a threat to the public, the license could also be yanked.

I think you'll find an argument that all firearms would have to be registered. Does the Government then get to confiscate all of the firearms from someone who has lost their license?

So the liscence validity would have to be checked with each gun purchase?

 

[uscitizen]

It was a large leap to think that people didn't already have ID's in order to cash checks, get on plane, buy alcohol and even cigarettes.

The figure I have heard used most often is eleven million Americans.

I was surprised, too.

Many Americans have never flown.
Checks? You mean Debit cards?
If you are old you never get carded.

 

[MeBelle]

So here is my idea. All this talk about Back ground checks and Gun shows got me thinking.

If we agree to require all gun owners to have a special Gun Owners License. That anyone with out a Criminal Record, or history of Mental Illness could get, and Renew Yearly so back ground checks would not have to be done at the point of sale, and we would not have to count on individual Dealers to do them.

Would you on the left agree that if it is ok to Require a license to Exercise your 2nd Amendment rights, then it must be reasonable to also require a License to vote?

I am guessing no right?

Why renew yearly?
There should be no reason to have to renew. Now if someone gets arrested charged and found guilty of a felony, the license could be auto yanked.
If someone gets dx'd with a mental illness, depending on the severity IE being a threat to the public, the license could also be yanked.

I think you'll find an argument that all firearms would have to be registered. Does the Government then get to confiscate all of the firearms from someone who has lost their license?

So the liscence validity would have to be checked with each gun purchase?

I suppose the same way a DL is checked for validity when someone gets pulled over for speeding or running a stop sign.

 

[Truthmatters]

So here is my idea. All this talk about Back ground checks and Gun shows got me thinking.

If we agree to require all gun owners to have a special Gun Owners License. That anyone with out a Criminal Record, or history of Mental Illness could get, and Renew Yearly so back ground checks would not have to be done at the point of sale, and we would not have to count on individual Dealers to do them.

Would you on the left agree that if it is ok to Require a license to Exercise your 2nd Amendment rights, then it must be reasonable to also require a License to vote?

I am guessing no right?

all ID laws do is KEEP legal voters from voting.

it what every study has shown

 

[MeBelle]

It was a large leap to think that people didn't already have ID's in order to cash checks, get on plane, buy alcohol and even cigarettes.

The figure I have heard used most often is eleven million Americans.

I was surprised, too.

Many Americans have never flown.
Checks? You mean Debit cards?
If you are old you never get carded.

Not all people use debit cards, there are some that actually write checks.
How about needing ID to board a train?

I'm not a spring chicken, nor am I elderly, but indeed I do get carded.

Found this list in one of the threads.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/252166-voter-id.html#post6120475

 

[MeBelle]

So here is my idea. All this talk about Back ground checks and Gun shows got me thinking.

If we agree to require all gun owners to have a special Gun Owners License. That anyone with out a Criminal Record, or history of Mental Illness could get, and Renew Yearly so back ground checks would not have to be done at the point of sale, and we would not have to count on individual Dealers to do them.

Would you on the left agree that if it is ok to Require a license to Exercise your 2nd Amendment rights, then it must be reasonable to also require a License to vote?

I am guessing no right?

all ID laws do is KEEP legal voters from voting.

it what every study has shown

With that train of thought, licensing gun owners would only be a burden on law abiding citizens and criminals will be able to own guns.

How's the manhunt going for the Chris Dorner, the cop killing cop?