8Hr workday? Weekends? Thank Henry Ford and Capitalism!

[sealybobo]

In place of those missing manufacturing jobs, the health-care and social assistance industries have nearly doubled in size, from 9.1 million in 1990 to just over 18 million today, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Today, the health care and social assistance industries are the largest employers in 34 states.

The transition from a manufacturing-dominated economy to a health care-driven economy wasn’t direct. As manufacturing jobs declined in the middle of the 1990s, retail trade jobs took over. By 2003, retail employers were the largest source of jobs in 21 states. Retail jobs were hit hard by the recession; between 2008 and 2009, 13 states went from retail-dominant to health care-dominant.

Here’s how the evolution happened, according to yearly reports compiled for the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Editor’s Desk blog:

 

[The Rabbi]

Keep living in the past if you want

Services, Not Manufacturing, Will Revive The U.S. Workforce

Charting The Incredible Shift From Manufacturing To Services In America

Look up lists of recession proof businesses and you'll see NONE of them are in manufacturing and ALL of them are service oreiented

The shift seems to be leaving us with stagnant wages.

Speak for yourself

I know plenty of people making more now than they were a few years ago and all of them are in service businesses.
My wife and I have more than quintupled our income in the past 10 years

There are plenty of opportunities in service sector businesses

I'm speaking for national numbers. Wages are stagnant.

And it's not because of CEO pay it's because we are in the midst of a shift in the economy and people like you are not adapting.
Manufacturing will never be the same because of new and improving technology it takes fewer and less skilled workers to produce high quality goods and that trend will continue. Low skilled workers are not paid the wages that the previous higher skilled workers were hence the wage lag even though productivity has increased

We have been dependent on large scale production and manufacturing in this country since the 1940s that is changing as we can see and we will need to adjust during that adjustment there will be economic ramifications.

In 1990, the manufacturing industry employed more workers than any other sector in 36 states. Today, the picture is totally different: Manufacturing is the dominant industry in only seven states.

What happened? A few recessions, the rise of off-shoring and imports from China and the rest of the world and the explosion of the health-care industry, to begin with. Over the last two decades, employment in the manufacturing sector has plummeted, from nearly 18 million jobs in 1990 to just over 12 million jobs today.

We also have a lot of high skill jobs that are going unfilled because we aren't doing a better job of educating our kids to learn what companies need.

Update: A smart reader points out that the decline in manufacturing jobs is actually more closely tied to automation rather than offshoring. The U.S. is manufacturing more now than it ever has, but much of that work can be done by machines — which don’t require salaries or health care coverage.)

The italic paragraph undermines your entire premise. Thanks.

 

[sealybobo]

Five myths about manufacturing jobs

 

[Brain357]

Five myths about manufacturing jobs

Interesting
On average, full-time manufacturing work pays 20 percent more than full-time service-sector jobs.

 

[sealybobo]

The shift seems to be leaving us with stagnant wages.

Speak for yourself

I know plenty of people making more now than they were a few years ago and all of them are in service businesses.
My wife and I have more than quintupled our income in the past 10 years

There are plenty of opportunities in service sector businesses

I'm speaking for national numbers. Wages are stagnant.

And it's not because of CEO pay it's because we are in the midst of a shift in the economy and people like you are not adapting.
Manufacturing will never be the same because of new and improving technology it takes fewer and less skilled workers to produce high quality goods and that trend will continue. Low skilled workers are not paid the wages that the previous higher skilled workers were hence the wage lag even though productivity has increased

We have been dependent on large scale production and manufacturing in this country since the 1940s that is changing as we can see and we will need to adjust during that adjustment there will be economic ramifications.

In 1990, the manufacturing industry employed more workers than any other sector in 36 states. Today, the picture is totally different: Manufacturing is the dominant industry in only seven states.

What happened? A few recessions, the rise of off-shoring and imports from China and the rest of the world and the explosion of the health-care industry, to begin with. Over the last two decades, employment in the manufacturing sector has plummeted, from nearly 18 million jobs in 1990 to just over 12 million jobs today.

We also have a lot of high skill jobs that are going unfilled because we aren't doing a better job of educating our kids to learn what companies need.

Update: A smart reader points out that the decline in manufacturing jobs is actually more closely tied to automation rather than offshoring. The U.S. is manufacturing more now than it ever has, but much of that work can be done by machines — which don’t require salaries or health care coverage.)

The italic paragraph undermines your entire premise. Thanks.

I'm not arguing. I'm posting facts. And I don't cherry pick.

We are seeing growing evidence that manufacturing supports far more jobs in other sectors than previously thought. For example, Intel Corporation has a plant in Washington County, Oregon employing 16,250 people in the design, manufacture and marketing of microprocessors. A recent study by ECONorthwest concluded that every 10 jobs at Intel supported another 31 jobs in other sectors at above average wages.

The Magic Job Multiplier of Manufacturing

An airliner for example may have 3 million components and an ordinary car as many as 10,000 coming from a vast array of suppliers. As manufactured products and processes become more complex and productive, they give rise to a host of skilled paraprofessional and professionals in nonmanufacturing jobs such as logistics and transportation, customer service, technical support, regulatory and safety specialists, distribution employees trained in use of information driven tools for receiving, storing and picking, the list goes on and on.

In some advanced manufacturing sectors, such as electronic computer manufacturing, the multiplier effect can be as high as 16 to one, or 16x, meaning that every manufacturing job supports 15 other jobs.

we rank only 13th among the top manufacturing countries in terms of exports. In other words, pound for pound, the Chinese and Germans are still running rings around us on the export front. That is a key reason why we need to convey the real significance of manufacturing jobs to legislators and policy makers.

Boston Consulting expects up to 800,000 manufacturing jobs to be added in the U.S. by mid-decade, and estimates that a 4x multiplier means they will create another 2.4 million jobs.

But this bright future will not just happen of its own accord. We need sensible policies for attracting capital investment, training a new generation of manufacturing workers and encouraging exports to make it happen. Growth and job creation should be our primary objectives. A growing economy will enable us to overcome any number of our more vexing challenges, and manufacturing is the key.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Keep living in the past if you want

Services, Not Manufacturing, Will Revive The U.S. Workforce

Charting The Incredible Shift From Manufacturing To Services In America

Look up lists of recession proof businesses and you'll see NONE of them are in manufacturing and ALL of them are service oreiented

The shift seems to be leaving us with stagnant wages.

Speak for yourself

I know plenty of people making more now than they were a few years ago and all of them are in service businesses.
My wife and I have more than quintupled our income in the past 10 years

There are plenty of opportunities in service sector businesses

I'm speaking for national numbers. Wages are stagnant.

And it's not because of CEO pay it's because we are in the midst of a shift in the economy and people like you are not adapting.
Manufacturing will never be the same because of new and improving technology it takes fewer and less skilled workers to produce high quality goods and that trend will continue. Low skilled workers are not paid the wages that the previous higher skilled workers were hence the wage lag even though productivity has increased

We have been dependent on large scale production and manufacturing in this country since the 1940s that is changing as we can see and we will need to adjust during that adjustment there will be economic ramifications.

In 1990, the manufacturing industry employed more workers than any other sector in 36 states. Today, the picture is totally different: Manufacturing is the dominant industry in only seven states.

What happened? A few recessions, the rise of off-shoring and imports from China and the rest of the world and the explosion of the health-care industry, to begin with. Over the last two decades, employment in the manufacturing sector has plummeted, from nearly 18 million jobs in 1990 to just over 12 million jobs today.

We also have a lot of high skill jobs that are going unfilled because we aren't doing a better job of educating our kids to learn what companies need.

Update: A smart reader points out that the decline in manufacturing jobs is actually more closely tied to automation rather than offshoring. The U.S. is manufacturing more now than it ever has, but much of that work can be done by machines — which don’t require salaries or health care coverage.)

I don't know how many times I've posted that productivity is up because of technology and that very same technology turns formerly high skill high paying jobs into lower skill lower paying jobs. But people here want to blame the resulting lower wages for the lower skilled jobs created by technology on CEO pay or "the rich" in general

 

[Skull Pilot]

Five myths about manufacturing jobs

Interesting
On average, full-time manufacturing work pays 20 percent more than full-time service-sector jobs.

And manufacturing is in decline so do you bet your economic future on a manufacturing job?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Speak for yourself

I know plenty of people making more now than they were a few years ago and all of them are in service businesses.
My wife and I have more than quintupled our income in the past 10 years

There are plenty of opportunities in service sector businesses

I'm speaking for national numbers. Wages are stagnant.

And it's not because of CEO pay it's because we are in the midst of a shift in the economy and people like you are not adapting.
Manufacturing will never be the same because of new and improving technology it takes fewer and less skilled workers to produce high quality goods and that trend will continue. Low skilled workers are not paid the wages that the previous higher skilled workers were hence the wage lag even though productivity has increased

We have been dependent on large scale production and manufacturing in this country since the 1940s that is changing as we can see and we will need to adjust during that adjustment there will be economic ramifications.

In 1990, the manufacturing industry employed more workers than any other sector in 36 states. Today, the picture is totally different: Manufacturing is the dominant industry in only seven states.

What happened? A few recessions, the rise of off-shoring and imports from China and the rest of the world and the explosion of the health-care industry, to begin with. Over the last two decades, employment in the manufacturing sector has plummeted, from nearly 18 million jobs in 1990 to just over 12 million jobs today.

We also have a lot of high skill jobs that are going unfilled because we aren't doing a better job of educating our kids to learn what companies need.

Update: A smart reader points out that the decline in manufacturing jobs is actually more closely tied to automation rather than offshoring. The U.S. is manufacturing more now than it ever has, but much of that work can be done by machines — which don’t require salaries or health care coverage.)

The italic paragraph undermines your entire premise. Thanks.

I'm not arguing. I'm posting facts. And I don't cherry pick.

We are seeing growing evidence that manufacturing supports far more jobs in other sectors than previously thought. For example, Intel Corporation has a plant in Washington County, Oregon employing 16,250 people in the design, manufacture and marketing of microprocessors. A recent study by ECONorthwest concluded that every 10 jobs at Intel supported another 31 jobs in other sectors at above average wages.

The Magic Job Multiplier of Manufacturing

An airliner for example may have 3 million components and an ordinary car as many as 10,000 coming from a vast array of suppliers. As manufactured products and processes become more complex and productive, they give rise to a host of skilled paraprofessional and professionals in nonmanufacturing jobs such as logistics and transportation, customer service, technical support, regulatory and safety specialists, distribution employees trained in use of information driven tools for receiving, storing and picking, the list goes on and on.

In some advanced manufacturing sectors, such as electronic computer manufacturing, the multiplier effect can be as high as 16 to one, or 16x, meaning that every manufacturing job supports 15 other jobs.

we rank only 13th among the top manufacturing countries in terms of exports. In other words, pound for pound, the Chinese and Germans are still running rings around us on the export front. That is a key reason why we need to convey the real significance of manufacturing jobs to legislators and policy makers.

Boston Consulting expects up to 800,000 manufacturing jobs to be added in the U.S. by mid-decade, and estimates that a 4x multiplier means they will create another 2.4 million jobs.

But this bright future will not just happen of its own accord. We need sensible policies for attracting capital investment, training a new generation of manufacturing workers and encouraging exports to make it happen. Growth and job creation should be our primary objectives. A growing economy will enable us to overcome any number of our more vexing challenges, and manufacturing is the key.

http://www2.itif.org/2015-myth-american-manufacturing-renaissance.pdf

 

[NYcarbineer]

Five myths about manufacturing jobs

Interesting
On average, full-time manufacturing work pays 20 percent more than full-time service-sector jobs.

And manufacturing is in decline so do you bet your economic future on a manufacturing job?

You can't name a single industry that can replace good paying manufacturing jobs.

You support the free market. The free global market takes wages down the lowest possible level. That is what you want for Americans.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Five myths about manufacturing jobs

Interesting
On average, full-time manufacturing work pays 20 percent more than full-time service-sector jobs.

And manufacturing is in decline so do you bet your economic future on a manufacturing job?

You can't name a single industry that can replace good paying manufacturing jobs.

You support the free market. The free global market takes wages down the lowest possible level. That is what you want for Americans.

I don't want anything for anyone. And define "good paying".

All I am saying is that like it or not our economy has been and is still moving to a predominantly service based economy.

I never said it was good or bad I merely said that's the way it is and therefore the place to look for opportunities is not in manufacturing.

But since you can't seem to think on your own I'll give you a few service area jobs in high demand
Plumbers, HVAC electricians.

We actually have a severe lack of skilled tradesmen in this country. There is a golden opportunity there

America's Skilled Trades Dilemma: Shortages Loom As Most-In-Demand Group Of Workers Ages

 

[Londoner]

The OP is missing something fundamental.

The Libertarianism of Reaganomics rejected the artificially high wages of postwar Fordism.

Henry Ford believed workers should make enough money to buy what they produced. Ronald Reagan, who was facing a more globalized production system with more competition, believed it was better to keep cost of production low (to maintain investment incentives). This belief resulted in low wages, low taxes and the unwinding of costly regulations, while at the same time expanding credit to maintain consumer demand.

(Rather than giving people high wages so that they could consume and drive domestic economic growth, we gave them credit cards and easier mortgage terms, that is, America traded factories and high wages for shopping malls, low-wage retail jobs and credit cards, which credit cards were used to buy stuff made in China but branded in the USA by a capitalist class that left the American worker in the dust)

The whole point of globalization was to unchain capital so it could seek out higher returns. Nike investors make more money when their sneaks are made for pennies by oppressed sweatshop workers. The point of Reaganomics and Clintonomics was to help business by replacing the high wages of Fordism with credit cards and other debt vehicles. It was brilliant: the owners of capital loaned the worker the money he use to make in wages - loan at a high interest rate.

The result of the transition from high wage Fordism to high credit Reaganomics is the most indebted working class in history, one vulnerable to demagogues floating scapegoats and promising easy answers: Trump.

Win, win.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Five myths about manufacturing jobs

Interesting
On average, full-time manufacturing work pays 20 percent more than full-time service-sector jobs.

And manufacturing is in decline so do you bet your economic future on a manufacturing job?

You can't name a single industry that can replace good paying manufacturing jobs.

You support the free market. The free global market takes wages down the lowest possible level. That is what you want for Americans.

I don't want anything for anyone. And define "good paying".

All I am saying is that like it or not our economy has been and is still moving to a predominantly service based economy.

I never said it was good or bad I merely said that's the way it is and therefore the place to look for opportunities is not in manufacturing.

But since you can't seem to think on your own I'll give you a few service area jobs in high demand
Plumbers, HVAC electricians.

We actually have a severe lack of skilled tradesmen in this country. There is a golden opportunity there

America's Skilled Trades Dilemma: Shortages Loom As Most-In-Demand Group Of Workers Ages

If you don't know what a good paying job is you must never have worked.

Maybe someday you'll realize that an ideologically purist obsession with 'free markets' might not be in the best interest of your nation.

Once you sell foreign made products in the US made at $1.00 hr. labor, you have made the minimum wage here for that production a dollar an hour. That's what amounts to an illegal invasion as bad or worse than people sneaking across the border.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Five myths about manufacturing jobs

Interesting
On average, full-time manufacturing work pays 20 percent more than full-time service-sector jobs.

And manufacturing is in decline so do you bet your economic future on a manufacturing job?

You can't name a single industry that can replace good paying manufacturing jobs.

You support the free market. The free global market takes wages down the lowest possible level. That is what you want for Americans.

I don't want anything for anyone. And define "good paying".

All I am saying is that like it or not our economy has been and is still moving to a predominantly service based economy.

I never said it was good or bad I merely said that's the way it is and therefore the place to look for opportunities is not in manufacturing.

But since you can't seem to think on your own I'll give you a few service area jobs in high demand
Plumbers, HVAC electricians.

We actually have a severe lack of skilled tradesmen in this country. There is a golden opportunity there

America's Skilled Trades Dilemma: Shortages Loom As Most-In-Demand Group Of Workers Ages

If you don't know what a good paying job is you must never have worked.

Maybe someday you'll realize that an ideologically purist obsession with 'free markets' might not be in the best interest of your nation.

Once you sell foreign made products in the US made at $1.00 hr. labor, you have made the minimum wage here for that production a dollar an hour. That's what amounts to an illegal invasion as bad or worse than people sneaking across the border.

Give me a number what's "good paying" The average income is about 50K a year. Is that "good" I never thought average was "good"

When you use subjective terms you intentionally obfuscate facts.

And I'm not talking about production and manufacturing in case you haven't realized that yet.

But tell me do you want the government telling you that instead of paying 50 dollars for a pair of sneakers made overseas somewhere that you have to pay 100 dollars for them because that's what it costs an American company to make them?

 

[initforme]

I'd pay more for american made products. What happens overseas is almost slavery...exploitation for sure.

 

[Londoner]

Five myths about manufacturing jobs

Interesting
On average, full-time manufacturing work pays 20 percent more than full-time service-sector jobs.

And manufacturing is in decline so do you bet your economic future on a manufacturing job?

You can't name a single industry that can replace good paying manufacturing jobs.

You support the free market. The free global market takes wages down the lowest possible level. That is what you want for Americans.

I don't want anything for anyone. And define "good paying".

All I am saying is that like it or not our economy has been and is still moving to a predominantly service based economy.

I never said it was good or bad I merely said that's the way it is and therefore the place to look for opportunities is not in manufacturing.

But since you can't seem to think on your own I'll give you a few service area jobs in high demand
Plumbers, HVAC electricians.

We actually have a severe lack of skilled tradesmen in this country. There is a golden opportunity there

America's Skilled Trades Dilemma: Shortages Loom As Most-In-Demand Group Of Workers Ages

If you don't know what a good paying job is you must never have worked.

Maybe someday you'll realize that an ideologically purist obsession with 'free markets' might not be in the best interest of your nation.

Once you sell foreign made products in the US made at $1.00 hr. labor, you have made the minimum wage here for that production a dollar an hour. That's what amounts to an illegal invasion as bad or worse than people sneaking across the border.

The goal of capitalism is to maximize profits.

This puts downward pressure on wages.

Which leads to crisis of demand (because workers are also consumers whose consumption is vital to the success of "Main Street" business. As you lower their wages, it becomes harder for them to buy what they produce).

Henry Ford and the New Deal liberals solved this crisis by supporting high wages and benefits for hard working Americans.

Ronald Reagan solved this crisis by letting the market drive down wages (so as to maintain profits) BUT shifting the consumption of workers to debt-based vehicles (credit cards, no money down, financialization, etc). Clinton and the "new" Democrats joined Reagan.

The OP is wrongly assigning the high wages of Fordist Capitalism to Free Market capitalism, which uses completely different mechanisms to address consumer demand.

 

[Brain357]

Interesting
On average, full-time manufacturing work pays 20 percent more than full-time service-sector jobs.

And manufacturing is in decline so do you bet your economic future on a manufacturing job?

You can't name a single industry that can replace good paying manufacturing jobs.

You support the free market. The free global market takes wages down the lowest possible level. That is what you want for Americans.

I don't want anything for anyone. And define "good paying".

All I am saying is that like it or not our economy has been and is still moving to a predominantly service based economy.

I never said it was good or bad I merely said that's the way it is and therefore the place to look for opportunities is not in manufacturing.

But since you can't seem to think on your own I'll give you a few service area jobs in high demand
Plumbers, HVAC electricians.

We actually have a severe lack of skilled tradesmen in this country. There is a golden opportunity there

America's Skilled Trades Dilemma: Shortages Loom As Most-In-Demand Group Of Workers Ages

If you don't know what a good paying job is you must never have worked.

Maybe someday you'll realize that an ideologically purist obsession with 'free markets' might not be in the best interest of your nation.

Once you sell foreign made products in the US made at $1.00 hr. labor, you have made the minimum wage here for that production a dollar an hour. That's what amounts to an illegal invasion as bad or worse than people sneaking across the border.

Give me a number what's "good paying" The average income is about 50K a year. Is that "good" I never thought average was "good"

When you use subjective terms you intentionally obfuscate facts.

And I'm not talking about production and manufacturing in case you haven't realized that yet.

But tell me do you want the government telling you that instead of paying 50 dollars for a pair of sneakers made overseas somewhere that you have to pay 100 dollars for them because that's what it costs an American company to make them?

Isn't 50k about the median household income?

 

[JoeB131]

So let me guess they just ran out to the local quickie mart at 3 am in your world?

Kind of posting retarded...

they didn't slave away for 60 hours a week, either. When most of the world was agricultural, people only worked really hard in planting season and harvest season.

 

[JoeB131]

And as I have said over and over and over again to you thick skulled morons, no one has to do anything. If you only want to work 8 hours a day that's just fine with me but don't expect to be as successful as someone who works more and stop whining about how jealous you are when others are far more successful than you

Naw, when I see someone rich, it's usually because he fucked over the people who did the actual work.

No one produces seven figures of value on his own. No one.

 

[JoeB131]

Sorry but since you never hired anyone or called any references you wouldn't know what to listen for. The way a person answers a question and the tone of voice used when telling me dates of hires etc is far more telling than a bad comment

so you are saying you are psychic? What if that HR Broad was on the rag that day?

And if anyone walked off a job with no notice I would ever hire them and fyi a former employer can tell me anything they have documented proof for such as sick time taken. days absent, even other employee complaints as long as it can be proven to be true and is properly documented there is nothing an ex-employee can do about it

They can, but they'd probably get sued, and frankly, it isn't going to be 12 Capitalists assholes in that jury box. It will be twelve working stiffs who hate their bosses.

good luck with that, buddy.

 

[sealybobo]

Five myths about manufacturing jobs

Interesting
On average, full-time manufacturing work pays 20 percent more than full-time service-sector jobs.

And manufacturing is in decline so do you bet your economic future on a manufacturing job?

You can't name a single industry that can replace good paying manufacturing jobs.

You support the free market. The free global market takes wages down the lowest possible level. That is what you want for Americans.

I don't want anything for anyone. And define "good paying".

All I am saying is that like it or not our economy has been and is still moving to a predominantly service based economy.

I never said it was good or bad I merely said that's the way it is and therefore the place to look for opportunities is not in manufacturing.

But since you can't seem to think on your own I'll give you a few service area jobs in high demand
Plumbers, HVAC electricians.

We actually have a severe lack of skilled tradesmen in this country. There is a golden opportunity there

America's Skilled Trades Dilemma: Shortages Loom As Most-In-Demand Group Of Workers Ages

I would love to open up a home for Alzheimer's patients only instead of doing it for $6000 a month I'd charge $4k. I would partner with a nurse or 3 and we could help people and make a fortune Providing a better service for less.

Of course all our employees will only make minimum wages. And I'll only work them 32 hours so I don't have to buy them insurance. In fact my employees will have to apply for food stamps but at least me and the nurses will make good $