84 schools in England show NO white British pupils...

[Correll]

The native white population of the UK is not inbred.

I never said it was (although there are some parts where this is true, mentioning no names but there are several villages out there where everyone is related.).

I have been able to debunk them using your own words.

I must have blinked and missed that singular event, but dream on...

What is it that you really like about Immigration/Third World Immigration that you find appealing?

It doesn't bother me in any way shape or form, I'm putting it in it's proper context, you are scaremongering about the "extinction" of white Anglo-Saxons and creating mountains out of molehills.

DO you have guilt about Britain's Imperial past and think it is time to give back to the world?

I have no problem with our Imperial past and accept no responsibility for any of the "unsavoury" things our ancestors did. Overall I believe the British Empire did more good than bad, as I've argued with Tommy Tainant in another thread.

DO you think diversity is cool and fun?

I've been inside a Catholic church, a Protestant church, a Mosque, a Synagogue, a Gurdwara, a Mandir and mixed socially with the people that go to these places, I have a variety of friends and I couldn't care less what colour their skin is or what gods they worship; they're my friends because I like them and they like me and most of the time we all get along famously. I also know a homosexual couple and a lesbian (yes, just the one). If that's embracing diversity, count me in.

1. Stop pretending that I didn't debunk your claims with your own words. It is dishonest of you, and incredibly rude to lie to my face about something I personally did, and you are well aware of. Knock it off.

2. "NOthing bothering you" is not something you like. It is obvious that you strongly support Immigration. I have asked you why. If you honestly don't know, then you need some serious introspection.

3. YOu did not answer my question. Do you think Diversity is "cool" or "fun"? Do you consider your circle of friends to be BETTER, because they are "diverse"?

 

[dani67]

fact pakistani and arabs arent humans.even they arent animals.
animals are better than arabs

 

[Challenger]

1. Stop pretending that I didn't debunk your claims with your own words. It is dishonest of you, and incredibly rude to lie to my face about something I personally did, and you are well aware of. Knock it off.

You may believe this to be the case, I do not.

2. "NOthing bothering you" is not something you like. It is obvious that you strongly support Immigration. I have asked you why. If you honestly don't know, then you need some serious introspection.

How you have come to this conclusion, probably has something to do with the fantasy in point 1. "Not bothering me" means I don't care one way or the other; I've just demonstrated that the issue has been hijacked by scaremongering bigots and is nowhere near as "bad" as they'd like people to believe.

3. YOu did not answer my question. Do you think Diversity is "cool" or "fun"? Do you consider your circle of friends to be BETTER, because they are "diverse"?

My friends are my friends, your friends are yours, are mine better? You tell me why yours are better than mine.

Define what YOU mean by "Diversity"

 

[Challenger]

fact pakistani and arabs arent humans.even they arent animals.
animals are better than arabs

Well....no bigotry there...

 

[Correll]

1. Stop pretending that I didn't debunk your claims with your own words. It is dishonest of you, and incredibly rude to lie to my face about something I personally did, and you are well aware of. Knock it off.

You may believe this to be the case, I do not.

2. "NOthing bothering you" is not something you like. It is obvious that you strongly support Immigration. I have asked you why. If you honestly don't know, then you need some serious introspection.

How you have come to this conclusion, probably has something to do with the fantasy in point 1. "Not bothering me" means I don't care one way or the other; I've just demonstrated that the issue has been hijacked by scaremongering bigots and is nowhere near as "bad" as they'd like people to believe.

3. YOu did not answer my question. Do you think Diversity is "cool" or "fun"? Do you consider your circle of friends to be BETTER, because they are "diverse"?

My friends are my friends, your friends are yours, are mine better? You tell me why yours are better than mine.

Define what YOU mean by "Diversity"

1 From post 366 in this very thread.

A.. Your words.


" I worked for Tarmac about that time and we found Eastern European migrant workers just as skilled as their British counterparts but they were more reliable and worked harder for the same rate of pay, hiring them was a no brainer; the free market can be a bitch to those who get complacent and lazy."


Thus, it is not about Brits NOT being willing to do the work, but about employers wanting better workers than they can get from a First World nation without increasing pay.


B. YOur words.

"Where will you get the money from? These foreign medical professionals were attracted because the NHS paid more than they earned in their home countries; raise the wages to what a native would expect and you'd bankrupt the NHS, which is cracking at the seams already. Haven't you heard, we live in an age of "austerity"."

It is not that Brits won't do the work, it's that immigrants will do it cheaper.


Your position that the UK needs immigrants because native born whites won't do those jobs is debunked with your own words.

Your denials at this point is absurd. Knock it off. We are past that.



2. Your irrational defense of HIgh Levels of Immigration shows that you are emotionally invested in the policy. I have asked you why. YOu still have not answered. Please try again.


2b Save the Race Card for someone who cares.


3. I asked you if you thought your friends were better because they are diverse. YOu did not answer. Please try again.

 

[Challenger]

Thus, it is not about Brits NOT being willing to do the work, but about employers wanting better workers than they can get from a First World nation without increasing pay.

It is not that Brits won't do the work, it's that immigrants will do it cheaper.

You make my point for me, if native British are NOT willing to work for the market rate, employers will employ the best they can get for the rate they can pay, be they native or immigrant.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

1. Stop pretending that I didn't debunk your claims with your own words. It is dishonest of you, and incredibly rude to lie to my face about something I personally did, and you are well aware of. Knock it off.

You may believe this to be the case, I do not.

2. "NOthing bothering you" is not something you like. It is obvious that you strongly support Immigration. I have asked you why. If you honestly don't know, then you need some serious introspection.

How you have come to this conclusion, probably has something to do with the fantasy in point 1. "Not bothering me" means I don't care one way or the other; I've just demonstrated that the issue has been hijacked by scaremongering bigots and is nowhere near as "bad" as they'd like people to believe.

3. YOu did not answer my question. Do you think Diversity is "cool" or "fun"? Do you consider your circle of friends to be BETTER, because they are "diverse"?

My friends are my friends, your friends are yours, are mine better? You tell me why yours are better than mine.

Define what YOU mean by "Diversity"

1 From post 366 in this very thread.

A.. Your words.


" I worked for Tarmac about that time and we found Eastern European migrant workers just as skilled as their British counterparts but they were more reliable and worked harder for the same rate of pay, hiring them was a no brainer; the free market can be a bitch to those who get complacent and lazy."


Thus, it is not about Brits NOT being willing to do the work, but about employers wanting better workers than they can get from a First World nation without increasing pay.


B. YOur words.

"Where will you get the money from? These foreign medical professionals were attracted because the NHS paid more than they earned in their home countries; raise the wages to what a native would expect and you'd bankrupt the NHS, which is cracking at the seams already. Haven't you heard, we live in an age of "austerity"."

It is not that Brits won't do the work, it's that immigrants will do it cheaper.


Your position that the UK needs immigrants because native born whites won't do those jobs is debunked with your own words.

Your denials at this point is absurd. Knock it off. We are past that.



2. Your irrational defense of HIgh Levels of Immigration shows that you are emotionally invested in the policy. I have asked you why. YOu still have not answered. Please try again.


2b Save the Race Card for someone who cares.


3. I asked you if you thought your friends were better because they are diverse. YOu did not answer. Please try again.

I strongly support immigration.I think that it has helped Britain make great strides. And the US for that matter. Everyone is an immigrant there.

 

[Challenger]

2. Your irrational defense of HIgh Levels of Immigration shows that you are emotionally invested in the policy. I have asked you why. YOu still have not answered. Please try again.

The only one "emotionally invested in the policy" is you. You've had your answer, here, in case you missed it.

"Not bothering me" means I don't care one way or the other; I've just demonstrated that the issue has been hijacked by scaremongering bigots and is nowhere near as "bad" as they'd like people to believe.

3. I asked you if you thought your friends were better because they are diverse. YOu did not answer. Please try again.

Once again I answered your question; a person has a subjective view of their friends, because they are friends. To ask someone to compare his friends with someone else's is not only irrelevant to this discussion, but rather childish in my view (MY friend's betterr than YOUR friend!). If nothing else I'm the richer and more enlightened for having known them.

 

[Correll]

Thus, it is not about Brits NOT being willing to do the work, but about employers wanting better workers than they can get from a First World nation without increasing pay.

It is not that Brits won't do the work, it's that immigrants will do it cheaper.

You make my point for me, if native British are NOT willing to work for the market rate, employers will employ the best they can get for the rate they can pay, be they native or immigrant.

That was not your initial reason.

You said that they would not do it.

Not that they would not do it "for the market rate"
.

So, now the question becomes one of what policy is best for UK citizens.

ONe that puts the pressure on employers to raise the wages they offer, to the benefit of native born white UK citizens?


Or one where instead those UK citizens remain jobless as hungry immigrants take those jobs, and suppress wages though the economy?


It only took 39 pages to get you to admit this.

Too bad that your media doesn't grill your lying political class like this.

So that UK voters could vote with good information about which policies are in their interest instead of lefty propaganda.

Who do you think they would elect?

Politicians who want policies to benefit UK citizens?

Or politicians who want policies to benefit Immigrants, and greedy employers?

 

[Correll]

1. Stop pretending that I didn't debunk your claims with your own words. It is dishonest of you, and incredibly rude to lie to my face about something I personally did, and you are well aware of. Knock it off.

You may believe this to be the case, I do not.

2. "NOthing bothering you" is not something you like. It is obvious that you strongly support Immigration. I have asked you why. If you honestly don't know, then you need some serious introspection.

How you have come to this conclusion, probably has something to do with the fantasy in point 1. "Not bothering me" means I don't care one way or the other; I've just demonstrated that the issue has been hijacked by scaremongering bigots and is nowhere near as "bad" as they'd like people to believe.

3. YOu did not answer my question. Do you think Diversity is "cool" or "fun"? Do you consider your circle of friends to be BETTER, because they are "diverse"?

My friends are my friends, your friends are yours, are mine better? You tell me why yours are better than mine.

Define what YOU mean by "Diversity"

1 From post 366 in this very thread.

A.. Your words.


" I worked for Tarmac about that time and we found Eastern European migrant workers just as skilled as their British counterparts but they were more reliable and worked harder for the same rate of pay, hiring them was a no brainer; the free market can be a bitch to those who get complacent and lazy."


Thus, it is not about Brits NOT being willing to do the work, but about employers wanting better workers than they can get from a First World nation without increasing pay.


B. YOur words.

"Where will you get the money from? These foreign medical professionals were attracted because the NHS paid more than they earned in their home countries; raise the wages to what a native would expect and you'd bankrupt the NHS, which is cracking at the seams already. Haven't you heard, we live in an age of "austerity"."

It is not that Brits won't do the work, it's that immigrants will do it cheaper.


Your position that the UK needs immigrants because native born whites won't do those jobs is debunked with your own words.

Your denials at this point is absurd. Knock it off. We are past that.



2. Your irrational defense of HIgh Levels of Immigration shows that you are emotionally invested in the policy. I have asked you why. YOu still have not answered. Please try again.


2b Save the Race Card for someone who cares.


3. I asked you if you thought your friends were better because they are diverse. YOu did not answer. Please try again.

I strongly support immigration.I think that it has helped Britain make great strides. And the US for that matter. Everyone is an immigrant there.

What "great strides"?


You guys keep saying shit like that.

I keep asking for examples.

YOu guys keep NOT being able to back up your claims.

But you keep making the same bs claims.

 

[Correll]

2. Your irrational defense of HIgh Levels of Immigration shows that you are emotionally invested in the policy. I have asked you why. YOu still have not answered. Please try again.

The only one "emotionally invested in the policy" is you. You've had your answer, here, in case you missed it.

"Not bothering me" means I don't care one way or the other; I've just demonstrated that the issue has been hijacked by scaremongering bigots and is nowhere near as "bad" as they'd like people to believe.

3. I asked you if you thought your friends were better because they are diverse. YOu did not answer. Please try again.

Once again I answered your question; a person has a subjective view of their friends, because they are friends. To ask someone to compare his friends with someone else's is not only irrelevant to this discussion, but rather childish in my view (MY friend's betterr than YOUR friend!). If nothing else I'm the richer and more enlightened for having known them.

1. Your passionate defense of the policy is NOT a "don't care" behavior. It is a "cares strongly" behavior. Why are you so strongly invested in HIgh Levels of immigration?



2. I did not ask you to compare your friends to another person's friends. I asked you if YOUR friends were better because they were diverse. You seemed to present their diversity AS THOUGH it was a good thing.

The comparison groups here would be the hypothetical group of friends you would have if such diversity was NOT available to you as you formed your group of friends.

Please stop dodging and answer my very simple and easy question.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

1. Stop pretending that I didn't debunk your claims with your own words. It is dishonest of you, and incredibly rude to lie to my face about something I personally did, and you are well aware of. Knock it off.

You may believe this to be the case, I do not.

2. "NOthing bothering you" is not something you like. It is obvious that you strongly support Immigration. I have asked you why. If you honestly don't know, then you need some serious introspection.

How you have come to this conclusion, probably has something to do with the fantasy in point 1. "Not bothering me" means I don't care one way or the other; I've just demonstrated that the issue has been hijacked by scaremongering bigots and is nowhere near as "bad" as they'd like people to believe.

3. YOu did not answer my question. Do you think Diversity is "cool" or "fun"? Do you consider your circle of friends to be BETTER, because they are "diverse"?

My friends are my friends, your friends are yours, are mine better? You tell me why yours are better than mine.

Define what YOU mean by "Diversity"

1 From post 366 in this very thread.

A.. Your words.


" I worked for Tarmac about that time and we found Eastern European migrant workers just as skilled as their British counterparts but they were more reliable and worked harder for the same rate of pay, hiring them was a no brainer; the free market can be a bitch to those who get complacent and lazy."


Thus, it is not about Brits NOT being willing to do the work, but about employers wanting better workers than they can get from a First World nation without increasing pay.


B. YOur words.

"Where will you get the money from? These foreign medical professionals were attracted because the NHS paid more than they earned in their home countries; raise the wages to what a native would expect and you'd bankrupt the NHS, which is cracking at the seams already. Haven't you heard, we live in an age of "austerity"."

It is not that Brits won't do the work, it's that immigrants will do it cheaper.


Your position that the UK needs immigrants because native born whites won't do those jobs is debunked with your own words.

Your denials at this point is absurd. Knock it off. We are past that.



2. Your irrational defense of HIgh Levels of Immigration shows that you are emotionally invested in the policy. I have asked you why. YOu still have not answered. Please try again.


2b Save the Race Card for someone who cares.


3. I asked you if you thought your friends were better because they are diverse. YOu did not answer. Please try again.

I strongly support immigration.I think that it has helped Britain make great strides. And the US for that matter. Everyone is an immigrant there.

What "great strides"?


You guys keep saying shit like that.

I keep asking for examples.

YOu guys keep NOT being able to back up your claims.

But you keep making the same bs claims.

The quality of life is better.

Our knowledge of the world has improved.

We are less parochial and have a more cosmopolitan world view.

Our economy has benefited from taxes paid by immigrants.

We all have friends who are immigrants or children of immigrants.

Some of us married an immigrants daughter.

They have set up businesses and created work for people.

They have integrated with British society and have provided role models and heroes in every sphere.
In Wales we have Colin Jackson, Taulupe Falatau and Joe Calzaghe who all represent Wales in sport and are venerated by the Welsh people.

Here is a list of Asian owned businesses which employ thousands of British people.
Top 20 Richest Asians

Our public services would collapse without the thousands of immigrants who make it work.

The greatest Welsh chanteuse is Shirley Bassey whose father was a Somali immigrant.

Welshman Ryan Giggs was the greatest footballer in the World for a decade. His father was an immigrant from the West Indies. Ashley Williams is captain of Wales and Neil Taylor is the left back.Both are children of immigrants.

In cricket Nasser Hussain was captain of England as was Mark Ramprakash. There are around 100
other immigrant cricketers who have represented England going back to Prince Ranjitsingh and the Nawab of Pataudi.

Immigrants fuel our night time economy.There is a curry house or 10 in every town in Britain.Life without Curry is no life at all. Every town also has a Chinese restaurant and most have a Thai. It has freed us from the grey days of post war Britain.

In the past 12 months a Pakistani immigrant was crowned the best baker in Britain, another Pakistani migrant will be elected Lord Mayor of London and an Algerian has been awarded the Player of the Year by the Premier League.

In music we have had, UB40,The Specials,The Beat,Hot Chocolate,Billy Ocean,Massive Attack, Mica Paris,Soul 2 Soul,The Selecter, Eddy Grant, The Real Thing amongst others. All of our lives would be poorer without these artists.

Michelle Hussain is the voice of the BBC as well as being the hottest woman on the Planet.

Catherine Zeta Jones is the most beautiful Welsh woman ever and is descended from immigrants.

These Sikhs feed the homeless in London.
Why homeless Britons are turning to the Sikh community for food - BBC News

These Muslims helped northern communities during the floods.
The Responses To UK Floods From Muslim Groups And Britain First Are Very Different

These immigrants helped us to win the war.
400,000 Muslim soldiers fought for Britain in first World War - Daily Pakistan Global

I could go on but I think the point is made.You people sit in a cave playing with your undersized cocks and cant see the world outside. You make me sick to my stomach.

Do you need any more examples you racist **** ?

 

[Challenger]

2. Your irrational defense of HIgh Levels of Immigration shows that you are emotionally invested in the policy. I have asked you why. YOu still have not answered. Please try again.

The only one "emotionally invested in the policy" is you. You've had your answer, here, in case you missed it.

"Not bothering me" means I don't care one way or the other; I've just demonstrated that the issue has been hijacked by scaremongering bigots and is nowhere near as "bad" as they'd like people to believe.

3. I asked you if you thought your friends were better because they are diverse. YOu did not answer. Please try again.

Once again I answered your question; a person has a subjective view of their friends, because they are friends. To ask someone to compare his friends with someone else's is not only irrelevant to this discussion, but rather childish in my view (MY friend's betterr than YOUR friend!). If nothing else I'm the richer and more enlightened for having known them.

1. Your passionate defense of the policy is NOT a "don't care" behavior. It is a "cares strongly" behavior. Why are you so strongly invested in HIgh Levels of immigration?



2. I did not ask you to compare your friends to another person's friends. I asked you if YOUR friends were better because they were diverse. You seemed to present their diversity AS THOUGH it was a good thing.

The comparison groups here would be the hypothetical group of friends you would have if such diversity was NOT available to you as you formed your group of friends.

Please stop dodging and answer my very simple and easy question.

1. Oh please, if this is what you call a "passionate defence", you must not get out much. From the start all I've been doing is disputing your frantic scare-mongering and trying to put things into context and keeping a sense of proportion.

2. Your question is unanswerable because it's based on subjective opinion about a group of people; it's not a question of who is "better" or "worse", it's about who you get on with. If this country was uniformly "white Anglo-Saxon" my group of friends would still be people I got on with. The key phrase here is "people I get on with"

 

[Challenger]

That was not your initial reason.

Yes it was, you chose to interpret what I said to fit your agenda. My original words quoted by you:

" I worked for Tarmac about that time and we found Eastern European migrant workers just as skilled as their British counterparts but they were more reliable and worked harder for the same rate of pay, hiring them was a no brainer; the free market can be a bitch to those who get complacent and lazy."

The market rate would be the market rate, regardless of immigration. Employers employ the best people possible for the wages they can afford to pay. The rate remains the same if 10 people apply for a job as it would if 100 people applied for the same job. From an employer's perspective they merely get to chose the best candidates from a larger sample. Tarmac never cut wages because they employed immigrants. There's no objective evidence that wages are reduced because of immigration.

 

[Phoenall]

...But regardless, the argument that pro-immigration people always use is that british WON'T DO the work. NOw we see that that is not the case.

No movement of goal posts, just sharing an anecdote from personal experience in the industry you cited. Here's an interesting article from a "right wing" newspaper, however:

"...It’s a cliché, but it’s a cliché for a reason: a few rotten apples aside (such as the criminal gangs from Eastern Europe who have made a home here along with their fellow countrymen), migrants mostly come here to do the jobs we can't or won’t. In the first category are those at the upper end, who work for mostly London-based companies that require access to global talent pools - but they're not really who we're talking about, given that they put in far more than they take out (unless you're competing against them for access to the London property market, or places at private school).

In the second are those who do what are called 3D or 5D jobs - “dirty, difficult and dangerous”, or the same with “domestic and dull” added. That's confirmed by Migration Observatory, which found that it was precisely these "relatively low-skilled sectors and occupations" that have seen the biggest growth in foreign-born workers since the early 2000s. Migrants in the UK Labour Market: An Overview | The Migration Observatory

None of this is to say that immigration isn’t a concern. Yes, people overestimate its impact: as a recent survey has found, people believe that immigrants make up a quarter of the population rather than the actual figure of 13 per cent. And no, it doesn’t necessarily prevent British people getting jobs: witness the fact that the number of jobless families has fallen to an 18-year low, even as immigration remains stubbornly high (which in turn suggests that many of these new arrivals are adding to workforce rather than displacing Britons from their jobs).

Our immigration problems are a result of Britain's success

2. Well, maybe you should raise wages until the new brits workers have a chance to fill those slots. That would help hold them, and then be good jobs for your citizens when the time comes

Where will you get the money from? These foreign medical professionals were attracted because the NHS paid more than they earned in their home countries; raise the wages to what a native would expect and you'd bankrupt the NHS, which is cracking at the seams already. Haven't you heard, we live in an age of "austerity".

3. So, do you craft policy to benefit the schools, or to benefit the citizens?

Both. since schools reciving funding from foreign countries help defray costs borne by the taxpayer and the schools will accept native students, so it's a win-win scenario.

1. All you just did there was repeat your claim that we already debunked. Brits ARE willing to do those jobs.

2. Got it. So you admit it is not about natives NOT being willing to do the job, but about you not being willing to pay a fair wage. Thus, you try to cover the difference by paying less to desperate foreigners.

3. Mmm, lets imagine that a single educator is supported by the money brought in from abroad. Yet in his career he would educate and graduate thousands of foreigners who will now be competing with British Citizens for jobs, and careers. Overall, looks like a negative for the UK.

1. Debunked? Hardly.
2. Not me, the Tories.
3. Claptrap, most students go home and get rich/make their careers there.

The problem with "Little Englanders" like you is you think it's all about you; it's not.

The "darkies" aren't taking your jobs, chasing your women or molesting your kids; at least not to the extent you'd have us believe. Economic migrants come here to make money to send home to their families and they're prepared to do any menial work that "the natives" won't do. Read, Migrants in the UK Labour Market: An Overview | The Migration Observatory in my link.

If the natives did, there'd be no vacancies and we'd have full employment. Migrants actually enrich our culture, rather than destroy it. All cultures evolve; we never had Christmas trees until Germans brought them over, do you like Pizza? most Brits do. An Italian invention and as for Curry (Asian), Kebabs (Greek/Turkish) some things we'd never have bothered with if migrants hadn't brought them over, and that's just food.

This article sums it up quite well:

"We need rather to view immigration from an entirely different perspective. We need to acknowledge the movement of peoples as neither an aberration, nor as an evil to be tolerated, but as an inherent part of human life. We need to view the social changes that immigration brings not as a loss of something precious, but also as the gain of something valuable, the creation of a more open, vibrant, cosmopolitan society. We should regard the clashes and conflicts in ideas and values that immigration often creates not as something to be feared and minimised but as something to be prized, the basis of social engagement, the means by which we can break out of our narrow cultural boxes and create possibility of a common language of citizenship."
THE FACTS, THE MYTHS AND THE FRAMING OF IMMIGRATION

Neo Marxist bullshit as they wont do most of the menial tasks, and prefer to rape 1400 underage girls instead. Your link relies on the same old tired lies that have been proven wrong more times than you have had a meal this year. The majority of immigrants come here for the hand outs, that is why so many are near retirement age.


Just another rat boy fail

 

[Phoenall]

...But regardless, the argument that pro-immigration people always use is that british WON'T DO the work. NOw we see that that is not the case.

No movement of goal posts, just sharing an anecdote from personal experience in the industry you cited. Here's an interesting article from a "right wing" newspaper, however:

"...It’s a cliché, but it’s a cliché for a reason: a few rotten apples aside (such as the criminal gangs from Eastern Europe who have made a home here along with their fellow countrymen), migrants mostly come here to do the jobs we can't or won’t. In the first category are those at the upper end, who work for mostly London-based companies that require access to global talent pools - but they're not really who we're talking about, given that they put in far more than they take out (unless you're competing against them for access to the London property market, or places at private school).

In the second are those who do what are called 3D or 5D jobs - “dirty, difficult and dangerous”, or the same with “domestic and dull” added. That's confirmed by Migration Observatory, which found that it was precisely these "relatively low-skilled sectors and occupations" that have seen the biggest growth in foreign-born workers since the early 2000s. Migrants in the UK Labour Market: An Overview | The Migration Observatory

None of this is to say that immigration isn’t a concern. Yes, people overestimate its impact: as a recent survey has found, people believe that immigrants make up a quarter of the population rather than the actual figure of 13 per cent. And no, it doesn’t necessarily prevent British people getting jobs: witness the fact that the number of jobless families has fallen to an 18-year low, even as immigration remains stubbornly high (which in turn suggests that many of these new arrivals are adding to workforce rather than displacing Britons from their jobs).

Our immigration problems are a result of Britain's success

2. Well, maybe you should raise wages until the new brits workers have a chance to fill those slots. That would help hold them, and then be good jobs for your citizens when the time comes

Where will you get the money from? These foreign medical professionals were attracted because the NHS paid more than they earned in their home countries; raise the wages to what a native would expect and you'd bankrupt the NHS, which is cracking at the seams already. Haven't you heard, we live in an age of "austerity".

3. So, do you craft policy to benefit the schools, or to benefit the citizens?

Both. since schools reciving funding from foreign countries help defray costs borne by the taxpayer and the schools will accept native students, so it's a win-win scenario.

1. All you just did there was repeat your claim that we already debunked. Brits ARE willing to do those jobs.

2. Got it. So you admit it is not about natives NOT being willing to do the job, but about you not being willing to pay a fair wage. Thus, you try to cover the difference by paying less to desperate foreigners.

3. Mmm, lets imagine that a single educator is supported by the money brought in from abroad. Yet in his career he would educate and graduate thousands of foreigners who will now be competing with British Citizens for jobs, and careers. Overall, looks like a negative for the UK.

1. Debunked? Hardly.
2. Not me, the Tories.
3. Claptrap, most students go home and get rich/make their careers there.

The problem with "Little Englanders" like you is you think it's all about you; it's not.

The "darkies" aren't taking your jobs, chasing your women or molesting your kids; at least not to the extent you'd have us believe. Economic migrants come here to make money to send home to their families and they're prepared to do any menial work that "the natives" won't do. Read, Migrants in the UK Labour Market: An Overview | The Migration Observatory in my link.

If the natives did, there'd be no vacancies and we'd have full employment. Migrants actually enrich our culture, rather than destroy it. All cultures evolve; we never had Christmas trees until Germans brought them over, do you like Pizza? most Brits do. An Italian invention and as for Curry (Asian), Kebabs (Greek/Turkish) some things we'd never have bothered with if migrants hadn't brought them over, and that's just food.

This article sums it up quite well:

"We need rather to view immigration from an entirely different perspective. We need to acknowledge the movement of peoples as neither an aberration, nor as an evil to be tolerated, but as an inherent part of human life. We need to view the social changes that immigration brings not as a loss of something precious, but also as the gain of something valuable, the creation of a more open, vibrant, cosmopolitan society. We should regard the clashes and conflicts in ideas and values that immigration often creates not as something to be feared and minimised but as something to be prized, the basis of social engagement, the means by which we can break out of our narrow cultural boxes and create possibility of a common language of citizenship."
THE FACTS, THE MYTHS AND THE FRAMING OF IMMIGRATION

Curry is the national dish of Britain. If ISIS wanted to wipe us out all they need to do is infiltrate all the curry houses. What a grey and miserable place it would be in ukipland.

The lad who does our windows is Polish and he has been here for a decade.he started with a ladder and a bucket and now has a shiny new van. He is so busy that he has had to take on a young lad to help him. His wife works in the local Aldi and their little boy attends the local catholic school.

I have no idea if they ever claimed benefits but I suspect they have at some point. Its tough getting started at the best of times.

Under UKIP edict he would be booted out I suppose. But I believe that he makes a positive contribution to the UK and I would welcome more like him. He certainly pays more tax than our prime minister.

It might be in wales but round here it is a chicken parmo.

One swallow does not a summer maske

You know this because he confides his private affairs to you ? Or are you just making this up ?

 

[Phoenall]

Has the EU shown any interest in respecting the democratically expressed will of various national populations who want to protect themselves, their economy and their culture?

If these "various national populations who want to protect themselves, their economy and their culture" voted in EU elections they might be taken more seriously.

What EU elections, as the people are not allowed to vote on such matters, that is only for the unelected eurocrats in Brussels to decide. When were you ever asked to vote on a bail out for Greece or the length of a cucumber

Can I respectfully suggest when anyone was ever asked to vote on whether they wanted their children to be forced to go to academies, or to build a hugely expensive fleet of aircraft carriers?

The European Parliament is directly elected by all EU citizens. The "unelected Eurocrats in Brussels" no longer have the power to make laws and rulings without the consent of the EUP since Maastricht in 1992. The powers of the European Parliament have increased over time and lately it has been showing signs of "independance" from national governments. Like the saying goes if you don't vote, you can't bitch about the government you get.

WRONG as the men in grey suits are the ones making the laws, the elected members just do as they are told and vote the laws in. The laws are made by unelected civil servants and unless you live in Europe you wont understand how this can happen. Maastricht has been scrapped many times over by new legislation that handed the reigns of power to the neo Marxists in control of EU departments. They say carrots must be orange and straight and we see thousands of tons being fed to the animals.

 

[Phoenall]

Thus, it is not about Brits NOT being willing to do the work, but about employers wanting better workers than they can get from a First World nation without increasing pay.

It is not that Brits won't do the work, it's that immigrants will do it cheaper.

Nice try, but the reality is, if all the "natives" were willing to do the work available, there would be no "vacancies" for the migrants.

The "darkies", as you so subtly slip in the Race Card, ARE taking jobs and decreasing wages.

I slipped in the race card? Seriosly? "Little Englanders" are the biggest racists going. This whole thread is about racism.

Blame the neo Marxists who decided that scrounging and laziness would pay more than working so gave the workshy £25k a year to live on. Then told the workers they would only get £15k a year out of which they paid tax and N.I., so guess what the low paid worker did ?

Rat boy has a new term to overuse and threaten others with, got it from your imam did you

 

[Tommy Tainant]

...But regardless, the argument that pro-immigration people always use is that british WON'T DO the work. NOw we see that that is not the case.

No movement of goal posts, just sharing an anecdote from personal experience in the industry you cited. Here's an interesting article from a "right wing" newspaper, however:

"...It’s a cliché, but it’s a cliché for a reason: a few rotten apples aside (such as the criminal gangs from Eastern Europe who have made a home here along with their fellow countrymen), migrants mostly come here to do the jobs we can't or won’t. In the first category are those at the upper end, who work for mostly London-based companies that require access to global talent pools - but they're not really who we're talking about, given that they put in far more than they take out (unless you're competing against them for access to the London property market, or places at private school).

In the second are those who do what are called 3D or 5D jobs - “dirty, difficult and dangerous”, or the same with “domestic and dull” added. That's confirmed by Migration Observatory, which found that it was precisely these "relatively low-skilled sectors and occupations" that have seen the biggest growth in foreign-born workers since the early 2000s. Migrants in the UK Labour Market: An Overview | The Migration Observatory

None of this is to say that immigration isn’t a concern. Yes, people overestimate its impact: as a recent survey has found, people believe that immigrants make up a quarter of the population rather than the actual figure of 13 per cent. And no, it doesn’t necessarily prevent British people getting jobs: witness the fact that the number of jobless families has fallen to an 18-year low, even as immigration remains stubbornly high (which in turn suggests that many of these new arrivals are adding to workforce rather than displacing Britons from their jobs).

Our immigration problems are a result of Britain's success

2. Well, maybe you should raise wages until the new brits workers have a chance to fill those slots. That would help hold them, and then be good jobs for your citizens when the time comes

Where will you get the money from? These foreign medical professionals were attracted because the NHS paid more than they earned in their home countries; raise the wages to what a native would expect and you'd bankrupt the NHS, which is cracking at the seams already. Haven't you heard, we live in an age of "austerity".

3. So, do you craft policy to benefit the schools, or to benefit the citizens?

Both. since schools reciving funding from foreign countries help defray costs borne by the taxpayer and the schools will accept native students, so it's a win-win scenario.

1. All you just did there was repeat your claim that we already debunked. Brits ARE willing to do those jobs.

2. Got it. So you admit it is not about natives NOT being willing to do the job, but about you not being willing to pay a fair wage. Thus, you try to cover the difference by paying less to desperate foreigners.

3. Mmm, lets imagine that a single educator is supported by the money brought in from abroad. Yet in his career he would educate and graduate thousands of foreigners who will now be competing with British Citizens for jobs, and careers. Overall, looks like a negative for the UK.

1. Debunked? Hardly.
2. Not me, the Tories.
3. Claptrap, most students go home and get rich/make their careers there.

The problem with "Little Englanders" like you is you think it's all about you; it's not.

The "darkies" aren't taking your jobs, chasing your women or molesting your kids; at least not to the extent you'd have us believe. Economic migrants come here to make money to send home to their families and they're prepared to do any menial work that "the natives" won't do. Read, Migrants in the UK Labour Market: An Overview | The Migration Observatory in my link.

If the natives did, there'd be no vacancies and we'd have full employment. Migrants actually enrich our culture, rather than destroy it. All cultures evolve; we never had Christmas trees until Germans brought them over, do you like Pizza? most Brits do. An Italian invention and as for Curry (Asian), Kebabs (Greek/Turkish) some things we'd never have bothered with if migrants hadn't brought them over, and that's just food.

This article sums it up quite well:

"We need rather to view immigration from an entirely different perspective. We need to acknowledge the movement of peoples as neither an aberration, nor as an evil to be tolerated, but as an inherent part of human life. We need to view the social changes that immigration brings not as a loss of something precious, but also as the gain of something valuable, the creation of a more open, vibrant, cosmopolitan society. We should regard the clashes and conflicts in ideas and values that immigration often creates not as something to be feared and minimised but as something to be prized, the basis of social engagement, the means by which we can break out of our narrow cultural boxes and create possibility of a common language of citizenship."
THE FACTS, THE MYTHS AND THE FRAMING OF IMMIGRATION

Curry is the national dish of Britain. If ISIS wanted to wipe us out all they need to do is infiltrate all the curry houses. What a grey and miserable place it would be in ukipland.

The lad who does our windows is Polish and he has been here for a decade.he started with a ladder and a bucket and now has a shiny new van. He is so busy that he has had to take on a young lad to help him. His wife works in the local Aldi and their little boy attends the local catholic school.

I have no idea if they ever claimed benefits but I suspect they have at some point. Its tough getting started at the best of times.

Under UKIP edict he would be booted out I suppose. But I believe that he makes a positive contribution to the UK and I would welcome more like him. He certainly pays more tax than our prime minister.

It might be in wales but round here it is a chicken parmo.

One swallow does not a summer maske

You know this because he confides his private affairs to you ? Or are you just making this up ?

He does chat to me actually.We mainly talk about football but after 10 years we sometimes discuss this and that.More this than that if I am honest. You know matey, if you try talking to people as opposed to twitching your curtains when they walk down the road you may learn things.

 

[Phoenall]

That was not your initial reason.

Yes it was, you chose to interpret what I said to fit your agenda. My original words quoted by you:

" I worked for Tarmac about that time and we found Eastern European migrant workers just as skilled as their British counterparts but they were more reliable and worked harder for the same rate of pay, hiring them was a no brainer; the free market can be a bitch to those who get complacent and lazy."

The market rate would be the market rate, regardless of immigration. Employers employ the best people possible for the wages they can afford to pay. The rate remains the same if 10 people apply for a job as it would if 100 people applied for the same job. From an employer's perspective they merely get to chose the best candidates from a larger sample. Tarmac never cut wages because they employed immigrants. There's no objective evidence that wages are reduced because of immigration.

Is that why the P.M some years back faced a revolt when it transpired he had let the EU dictate who could work on a new Government project and what wages would be paid. The work went to Polish/Czech workers employed in Poland and paid Polish rates of pay. Now how can you defend this without showing that the EU dictates what wages are paid and to which workers the jobs would go to. Nearly caused a national strike until Brown told the lies to cover up his selling of the family silver after selling the nations gold