56 of 88 counties destroyed 04 election data

[SpidermanTuba]

if you read what I have said than you would know that I don't vote based on the political party ....

you mean you don't vote?

and often don't vote at all.

Thought so.

In that case, I don't really care to read the rest of your post or anything else you've written.

 

[Truthmatters]

Why would anyone talk politics and not vote?

That is just absurd.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I don't know.

I heard someone on NPR sarcastically say a few months ago that so called "independent" voters are really just non-voters, but its apparently true. Everyone I talk to who isn't a major party voter is either
a) an independent who hardly ever votes
b) a dedicated third party voter


And by "dedicated" I don't mean a single third party, just third parties in general. When I vote, I vote a) is there a green party candidate? if so, vote for them b) is there a libertarian candidate? If so, vote for them c) Is there a democratic candidate? If so, vote for them d) Is there a socialist, communist, constitutional, nazi, scientology, or NAMBLA candidate? If so, vote for them e) If ALL of the candidates are Republican, vote for the non-incumbant (In Louisiana, we have the "Jungle Primary", so a field of 4 Republicans and 2 Democrats in the primary, could be reduced to a 2 Republican run-off, or a Democrat run-off)

f) corollary - if you have to choose between members of the same party and one is an incumbant, g) have you heard anything good about the incumbant? If not, vote against them.


Mind you, I only use this simple set of rules in situations where I know nothing about the candidates. There's so many damn local and state elections its impossible to keep up with everyone.

 

[Truthmatters]

I have had serious reason to distrust the sanctity of the vote in this country the last few elections and still vote every time.

The more people vote the harder it is to fix an election.

I will always vote.

 

[Vintij]

The truth is, still a third of all adults dont vote. You have two partys, then you have the people who hate either both partys or politics in general. They are the ones who would mose likely vote democrat because republicans can rally everyone they got, democrats would win every time if they actually had a foundation or a decent candidate to rally around.

Republicans, all they need is jesus to rally around. No matter the candidates policy or past failures, all he needs is jesus to get that vote. Evangelicals give republicans a huge advantage.

Gays, blacks, mexicans and intellectuals are a tiny percentage and do not give democrats that much of an advantage.

 

[dilloduck]

The truth is, democrats would win every time if they actually had a foundation or a decent candidate to rally around.

QUOTE]

No shit sherlock----You might be onto something here.

 

[CSM]

No shit sherlock----You might be onto something here.

Now that is too funny! If frogs had wings....

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I have had serious reason to distrust the sanctity of the vote in this country the last few elections and still vote every time.

The more people vote the harder it is to fix an election.

I will always vote.

That's a good argument. I'll use it next time I'm confronting a non-voting friend of mine.

Do you have a good argument as to why one should not cheat the federal government out of the taxes they are due - even if the feds might be spending half of your money on burning women and children to death?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

The truth is, still a third of all adults dont vote. You have two partys, then you have the people who hate either both partys or politics in general. They are the ones who would mose likely vote democrat because republicans can rally everyone they got, democrats would win every time if they actually had a foundation or a decent candidate to rally around.

Republicans, all they need is jesus to rally around. No matter the candidates policy or past failures, all he needs is jesus to get that vote. Evangelicals give republicans a huge advantage.

Gays, blacks, mexicans and intellectuals are a tiny percentage and do not give democrats that much of an advantage.

Uhh, Mexican-Americans + blacks = over 1/4 of the population!



Anyway - I think if everyone truly voted their convictions in this country, NEITHER of these two parties would be in power. I personally think having the Libertarians and the Green Party share power is the best possible situation. I like the Green Party alot but we have to have someone looking over their shoulder to make sure they aren't wasting money, and the LIbertarians would be perfect for that.

 

[Truthmatters]

That's a good argument. I'll use it next time I'm confronting a non-voting friend of mine.

Do you have a good argument as to why one should not cheat the federal government out of the taxes they are due - even if the feds might be spending half of your money on burning women and children to death?

I dont cheat on anything.

People rationalise to steal from employers, cheat on their taxes , cheat on their wifes.

People complain about what the othe Guy does and then somehow rationalise these things as getting back at someone or something.

Once you do that you are NO BETTER then the people you are suppossedly trying tio get back at.

I use all legal deuctions I can but I NEVER cheat , Im just not a cheater.

Even if you were to "get away with it" YOU know you cheated.

This homie dont play that.

 

[Edward]

you mean you don't vote?

Thought so.

In that case, I don't really care to read the rest of your post or anything else you've written.

You have the audacity to make this statement and I condemn you for doing so because they are the words of a despot and a tyrant. My right to a voice in my own affairs accounts for more than a vote. I will not vote so that you can feel good that everyone is allowed to vote. I do not intend to allow for such an injustice to be meted out upon me and others. Choosing not to vote is often the best form of civil disobedience when you object to the form of government of this country. Voting implies consent and I do not intend to imply consent for a twisted, sick and warped form of government. The only time I vote is when not doing so will result in such harm to me and my loved ones and what I hold dear that voting is the lessor of two evils. At present the Democratic Party is the lessor of two evils and I am inclined to vote accordingly with the exception of losers like Bill and Hillary Clinton. If Hillary Clinton is elected we will be faced with another Bush/Clinton just like we would have been if Kerry was elected since he and George W. Bush knew each other and were friends at Yale.

As for the Constitution. In no uncertain terms we hear how those who opposed this filthy document were treated by evil men:

A few citizens of Philadelphia (too few, for the honour of human nature) who had the wisdom to think consideration ought to proceed approbation, and the fortitude to avow that they would take time to judge for themselves on so momentous an occasion, were stigmatized as enemies to their country; as monsters, whose existence ought not to be suffered, and the destruction of them and their houses recommended, as meritorious. -- The authors of the new plan, conscious that it would not stand the test of enlightened patriotism, tyrannically endeavoured to to preclude all investigation. - If their views were laudable; if they were honest, -- the contrary would have been their conduct, they would have invited the freest discussion. Whatever specious reasons may be assigned for secrecy during the framing of the plan, no good one can exist, for leading the people blindfolded into the implicit adoption of it. Such an attempt does not augur the public good -- It carries on the face of it an intention to juggle the people out of their liberties.

Are Mr. Wilson, and many of his coadjutors in the late Convention, the disinterested patriots they would have us believve? Is their conduct any recommendation of their plan of government? View them the foremost and loudest on the floor of Congress, in our Assembly, at town meetings, in sounding its eulogiums: --View them preventing investigation and discussion, and in the most despotic manner endeavorouring to compel its adoption by the people, with such precipitancy as to preclude the possibility of a due consideration, and then say whether the motivies of these men can be pure.

The threats, the intimdation, and the attacks upon freedom loving patriots who opposed the Constitution was so great that many of them were right to fear for their safety. A band of tyrants (i.e., your ideological predecessors) decided to take upon themselves the name of republicans in order to further their aristocratical ends and to foist King, Parliment, House of Lords, and House of Commons upon us and to form us into a consolidated empire. People who spoke out vigourously against it had every right to fear for their very safety because the tryants who met in secret to draft it had no problem using violence against those who were patriotic enough to point out their despotic aims. To this day, there are many who see this and yet we find that many in this country are still ignorant of its aim. The cry for self-government, liberty and freedom is often not heard among the shouts of the faction that supports the Constitution. We see time and again a desire on the part of its supporters to use it as a weapon against those who speak for freedom and for liberty. It's a violent and tyrannical document whose only merit is the Bill of Rights which was only included after it was adopted because of the threat of an armed uprising against the evil men who took it upon themselves to approve the Constitution even though they knew the people would reject it.

I have no intention of debasing myself and to becoming nothing more than an instrument of tryanny instead I will do what needs to be done and condemn the Constitution for what it is which is an instrument of despotism. As I have already noted I will only vote when I feel it is in my interest to do so in order to protect myself and my loved ones from harm by those who would take the opportunity to deprive us of our rights, our liberties and our right to have a voice in our government. It is incumbent upon every freeman and woman to speak out and to vote when they fear for their safety and well-being as a result of the votes of others who adore the instruments of despotism. That being the case, I intend to vote when and if I feel it necessary to do so in order to protect myself and my loved ones. I will gladly use the instruments of tyranny against it to defend what I hold dear because it is my duty to do so. If I lived in a monarchy or any other form of despotic government I would gladly be a part of the King's court if I felt it would protect me and my family from harm and I would do what is necessary to use the very authority of the King and the monarch against them in order to protect what I hold dear. I am not ashamed of this because freedom loving people will do what is necessary to protect what they hold dear. If I cannot live in a free country I will do what is necessary to protect my rights, my liberties and my freedsom and that of my loved ones. I have seen evil and have stared it in the face every November and I will not fear its wrath or the insults hurled upon me by its supporters nor will I back down when told that these tyrants do not care to hear or read what I have to say as you have done instead I will condemn you and those who practice tyranny.

We had so much going for us after the American Revolution and yet a group of conniving, sinister and evil men decided to met on September 11, 1786 to call for a secret convention to draft a constitution. They were successful in getting a convention formed only after lying about their intentions and mis-leading people into believing that they were only going to meet for the "sole and express purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation." Was that what they did or intended? The answer to that is a resounding no and yet we applaud them and what they did even though everything those who opposed the Constitution said has essentially come true. We are willing to settle for a mere vote on election day because we think that is all the right we have and yet our right to self-government is infringed, our right to a voice and a vote is negated. The evil genius of the Constitution is how it separates the powers of the branches of government, how it also makes multiple districts and divides our representatives so that none are responsible to us. We are told that one man out of thousands can represent our interests and that when the majority of voters elect him he is duly authorized to act in our behalf and yet this isn't so. He doesn't represent each of us and often there are thousands who have no representation since we allow our right to either be directly able to vote on every matter or to have representation to be voted away. This is a concept that we seem to have forgotten but was repeated over and over by patriots who opposed the Constitution and who understood that the current form of government prior to 1789 was one that allowed for the liberty of all men.

 

[Edward]

Why would anyone talk politics and not vote?

That is just absurd.

I am not talking politics. I am talking about my government and about my rights and those of my loved ones. It isn't absurd to talk about things that affect our lives and about what is wrong with our system of government and not vote. In fact, voting is part of the problem. It isn't part of the solution because it leads us to believe that we have a say in our government and it is nothing more than a means to control us and to make us by making us think that we have control of our own government when in reality we do not. So what if I can vote. I don't care. It means nothing to me. That isn't the end of my right and I do not intend for it to be so. It makes no sense to simply nod my head and say: X, Y, and Z vote and X and Z choose X to represent them and therefore Y have no say in their government. Where is Y's vote? Where is his or her opportunity to have their voices heard. The answer to that is quite obvious. That man or woman has no rights at all. They only think they do. Can you walk next door and talk to your Senator or your Representative? Can you sit down to dinner with him and discuss with him your concerns? Do you call him by his first name and does he call you by your first name? Are you friends? How long have you known each other? Do your children go to the same school? Are they friends? Does your wife and his wife meet with other women in the neighborhood to have tea and to socialize? The point I am trying to make here is that we shouldn't be so willing to surrender our vote and our voice on election day to that of a stranger who was voted for by another stranger and yet we do so because we have come to accept that is how things are done and yet there is another option and one that existed before the present Constitution. It was one of freedom and liberty and it ultimately rests upon the principle that each man or woman governs his home, that each neighborhood governs itself, that each town governs itself and that each state governs itself and that each town elects representatives for each level of government in open meeting after an open discussion of the issues, and of the individuals. Often, such discussion wouldn't even need to take place (even though it always should) because everyone knows everyone else and know each person so well that they can easily decide who they want to represent them.

So I am not ashamed to say that I don't always vote. There are times when all the candidates are strangers and it isn't important enough that I vote against any of them. Simply stated, the only reason I vote is to make sure that someone who would harm my interests and that of my family loses and that they and those they represent don't get to make the laws and I will continue to act upon this principle of self-preservation so long as we live under a despotic government.

 

[Truthmatters]

Voting in major elelctions are a must as far as Im concerned.

People used to be ashamed to say they did not vote.

I would like to see that come back!

 

[Edward]

Voting in major elelctions are a must as far as Im concerned.

People used to be ashamed to say they did not vote.

I would like to see that come back!

It used to be that people bought into the shit that they were fed. Now more and more people are beginning to see through it and recognize that being able to vote is just another tool in the arsenal of tyrants and despots who seek to prevent people from having an actual voice in their government. We are raised to believe that voting is an end in itself. The British people could vote before 1776 but that didn't make the United Kingdom a free country and notwithstanding the claims of the British they were not a republic anymore than we are a republic because we are modeled after the British system. So I have no intention of being ashamed of doing the right thing and refusing to vote except when it is to protect myself and my loved ones since it is a travesty to do so. Our system of government was the result of conspiring men who sought for a way to make a despotic form of government appear to be good when in reality it was not. So I proudly and without shame say I do not vote in the travesty we call elections where our right to a direct vote and representation in our government is voted away by others and that the only time I do so is when not doing so will result in more harm than debasing myself to take part in the tyranny that is so subtly practiced by our society. You aren't going to see people returning to the idiocy of voting for the sake of voting. A lot of people have come to the conclusion that it is nothing more than a bunch of crap fed to us in order to make us think that we have a say in our government when we do not. Let us all sing for joy: WE CAN VOTE, WE CAN VOTE, WE CAN VOTE, OH HOW WONDERFUL IT IS THAT OUR SAY IN OUR GOVERNMENT IS DILUTED AND THAT OF OTHERS EXPANDED ONE DAY IN THE YEAR. WE CAN VOTE, WE CAN VOTE, WE CAN VOTE, OH HOW WONDERFUL IT IS THAT ONE FACTION INCREASES IN THEIR ABILITY TO HAVE A SAY WHILE THE OTHER DECREASES. ON ELECTION DAY WE ARE EQUAL BUT AFTERWARDS THE WINNERS GET A VOTE AND THE LOSERS GET TO GO HOME AND ALLOW THE WINNERS TO SEND THEIR BUDDY TO VOTE ON THE LAWS WHILE THE REST OF US GET TO WONDER ALOUD ABOUT WHY WE DON'T HAVE A VOTE. WAIT, IT IS SO WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL THAT THEY CAN VOTE AWAY OUR RIGHT TO A VOTE. I hope that was really sarcastic.