50 years later: has government dependency helped or hurt blacks?

[Unkotare]

I think we've established the problem. A culture that lays off personal responsibility and explains every negative by pointing to "racism" and victimhood. It is sad. .

I'm not talking about a culture now, I'm talking about one disingenuous interlocutor here.

 

[Asclepias]

I think we've established the problem. A culture that lays off personal responsibility and explains every negative by pointing to "racism" and victimhood. It is sad. It is shameful. Some groups that were legitimately the targets of racism, like the Chinese, have overcome that past and prospered with a culture that admires success. Blacks have adopted a culture that admires defiance and violence and explains their setbacks by reference to things that happened hundreds of years ago.

I think I also see what is going on. You want to say race plays no part and you are not willing to learn why it does. Explaining why it does is not a lack of personal responsibility. Its called finding the root of the problem. If you dont know why a problem exist how can you take personal responsibility for it and resolve it? If you can show me any problem solving method that omits this step then I would take your view more seriously.

 

[The Rabbi]

I think we've established the problem. A culture that lays off personal responsibility and explains every negative by pointing to "racism" and victimhood. It is sad. It is shameful. Some groups that were legitimately the targets of racism, like the Chinese, have overcome that past and prospered with a culture that admires success. Blacks have adopted a culture that admires defiance and violence and explains their setbacks by reference to things that happened hundreds of years ago.

I think I also see what is going on. You want to say race plays no part and you are not willing to learn why it does. Explaining why it does is not a lack of personal responsibility. Its called finding the root of the problem. If you dont know why a problem exist how can you take personal responsibility for it and resolve it? If you can show me any problem solving method that omits this step then I would take your view more seriously.

You are a racist. Race is not the issue. Caribbean blacks come here and do fine. Africans come here and do fine. It is only American blacks that have issues. And that is cultural, not racial.

 

[squeeze berry]

I think we've established the problem. A culture that lays off personal responsibility and explains every negative by pointing to "racism" and victimhood. It is sad. It is shameful. Some groups that were legitimately the targets of racism, like the Chinese, have overcome that past and prospered with a culture that admires success. Blacks have adopted a culture that admires defiance and violence and explains their setbacks by reference to things that happened hundreds of years ago.

I think I also see what is going on. You want to say race plays no part and you are not willing to learn why it does. Explaining why it does is not a lack of personal responsibility. Its called finding the root of the problem. If you dont know why a problem exist how can you take personal responsibility for it and resolve it? If you can show me any problem solving method that omits this step then I would take your view more seriously.

You are a racist. Race is not the issue. Caribbean blacks come here and do fine. Africans come here and do fine. It is only American blacks that have issues. And that is cultural, not racial.

it's because playing the race card has worked too well for them.

when it's not available, which is in places like school, the results are disastrous.

 

[Asclepias]

I think we've established the problem. A culture that lays off personal responsibility and explains every negative by pointing to "racism" and victimhood. It is sad. It is shameful. Some groups that were legitimately the targets of racism, like the Chinese, have overcome that past and prospered with a culture that admires success. Blacks have adopted a culture that admires defiance and violence and explains their setbacks by reference to things that happened hundreds of years ago.

I think I also see what is going on. You want to say race plays no part and you are not willing to learn why it does. Explaining why it does is not a lack of personal responsibility. Its called finding the root of the problem. If you dont know why a problem exist how can you take personal responsibility for it and resolve it? If you can show me any problem solving method that omits this step then I would take your view more seriously.

You are a racist. Race is not the issue. Caribbean blacks come here and do fine. Africans come here and do fine. It is only American blacks that have issues. And that is cultural, not racial.

You basically just proved my point with that statement. Racism and slavery specifically as practiced in the US is the root problem. You denying it doesnt make it so. If you want to call it cultural racism and slavery have at it. All I know is that once the root issue of a problem can be identified you can devise a solution. Your declaration that educating yourself about the root of the matter is being racist is beyond silly. There is nothing more capable or unstoppable than a man or woman knowledgeable about who they are and where they are going.

 

[The Rabbi]

I think I also see what is going on. You want to say race plays no part and you are not willing to learn why it does. Explaining why it does is not a lack of personal responsibility. Its called finding the root of the problem. If you dont know why a problem exist how can you take personal responsibility for it and resolve it? If you can show me any problem solving method that omits this step then I would take your view more seriously.

You are a racist. Race is not the issue. Caribbean blacks come here and do fine. Africans come here and do fine. It is only American blacks that have issues. And that is cultural, not racial.

You basically just proved my point with that statement. Racism and slavery specifically as practiced in the US is the root problem. You denying it doesnt make it so. If you want to call it cultural racism and slavery have at it. All I know is that once the root issue of a problem can be identified you can devise a solution. Your declaration that educating yourself about the root of the matter is being racist is beyond silly. There is nothing more capable or unstoppable than a man or woman knowledgeable about who they are and where they are going.

Hello. Caribbean blacks were enslaved too. So slavery is not the root problem. Black culture is the problem.
It is not racist to educate yourself about the root of the matter. That is a distortion of what I wrote. It is racist to attribute the problems in the black community to racism. The problem is clearly a culture that thrives on destruction.

 

[Asclepias]

You are a racist. Race is not the issue. Caribbean blacks come here and do fine. Africans come here and do fine. It is only American blacks that have issues. And that is cultural, not racial.

You basically just proved my point with that statement. Racism and slavery specifically as practiced in the US is the root problem. You denying it doesnt make it so. If you want to call it cultural racism and slavery have at it. All I know is that once the root issue of a problem can be identified you can devise a solution. Your declaration that educating yourself about the root of the matter is being racist is beyond silly. There is nothing more capable or unstoppable than a man or woman knowledgeable about who they are and where they are going.

Hello. Caribbean blacks were enslaved too. So slavery is not the root problem. Black culture is the problem.
It is not racist to educate yourself about the root of the matter. That is a distortion of what I wrote. It is racist to attribute the problems in the black community to racism. The problem is clearly a culture that thrives on destruction.

Youre spectacularly confused in a exceptional way.

It is racist to attribute the problems in the black community to racism.

Did you really just say that? I guess i'll just continue doing what I do. Is there anything further you want to argue about?

 

[Unkotare]

I guess i'll just continue doing what I do.

Instead of that, why don't you try having an honest, rational discussion some time? Of course since you've shown no signs of interest in such a thing I won't hold my breath.

 

[Asclepias]

I guess i'll just continue doing what I do.

Instead of that, why don't you try having an honest, rational discussion some time? Of course since you've shown no signs of interest in such a thing I won't hold my breath.

Why are you talking to me if you dont believe anything I say? You dont have to like my opinions but a prerequisite of having a productive conversation is you at least believe the validity of what the other person says. At this point its probably best we only insult each other from time to time.

 

[Unkotare]

You dont have to like my opinions but a prerequisite of having a productive conversation is you at least believe the validity of what the other person says. .

Then you shouldn't be having a conversation with anyone, since you've admitted to being a liar. By your own standard no one can have a productive conversation with you.

 

[Asclepias]

You dont have to like my opinions but a prerequisite of having a productive conversation is you at least believe the validity of what the other person says. .

Then you shouldn't be having a conversation with anyone, since you've admitted to being a liar. By your own standard no one can have a productive conversation with you.

So far only you fit that designation. If you don't believe me it wouldn't be very smart to attempt to converse with me. You could start a petition to make sure no one talks to me. That would teach me a lesson.

 

[ClosedCaption]

You are a racist. Race is not the issue. Caribbean blacks come here and do fine. Africans come here and do fine. It is only American blacks that have issues. And that is cultural, not racial.

You basically just proved my point with that statement. Racism and slavery specifically as practiced in the US is the root problem. You denying it doesnt make it so. If you want to call it cultural racism and slavery have at it. All I know is that once the root issue of a problem can be identified you can devise a solution. Your declaration that educating yourself about the root of the matter is being racist is beyond silly. There is nothing more capable or unstoppable than a man or woman knowledgeable about who they are and where they are going.

Hello. Caribbean blacks were enslaved too. So slavery is not the root problem. Black culture is the problem.
It is not racist to educate yourself about the root of the matter. That is a distortion of what I wrote. It is racist to attribute the problems in the black community to racism. The problem is clearly a culture that thrives on destruction.

So America had nothing to do with the differences between Caribbean blacks and American Slaves?

 

[Asclepias]

You basically just proved my point with that statement. Racism and slavery specifically as practiced in the US is the root problem. You denying it doesnt make it so. If you want to call it cultural racism and slavery have at it. All I know is that once the root issue of a problem can be identified you can devise a solution. Your declaration that educating yourself about the root of the matter is being racist is beyond silly. There is nothing more capable or unstoppable than a man or woman knowledgeable about who they are and where they are going.

Hello. Caribbean blacks were enslaved too. So slavery is not the root problem. Black culture is the problem.
It is not racist to educate yourself about the root of the matter. That is a distortion of what I wrote. It is racist to attribute the problems in the black community to racism. The problem is clearly a culture that thrives on destruction.

So America had nothing to do with the differences between Caribbean blacks and American Slaves?

Apparently all slavery in every country was practiced in exactly the same manner. Who knew?

 

[Oldstyle]

I think I also see what is going on. You want to say race plays no part and you are not willing to learn why it does. Explaining why it does is not a lack of personal responsibility. Its called finding the root of the problem. If you dont know why a problem exist how can you take personal responsibility for it and resolve it? If you can show me any problem solving method that omits this step then I would take your view more seriously.

You are a racist. Race is not the issue. Caribbean blacks come here and do fine. Africans come here and do fine. It is only American blacks that have issues. And that is cultural, not racial.

You basically just proved my point with that statement. Racism and slavery specifically as practiced in the US is the root problem. You denying it doesnt make it so. If you want to call it cultural racism and slavery have at it. All I know is that once the root issue of a problem can be identified you can devise a solution. Your declaration that educating yourself about the root of the matter is being racist is beyond silly. There is nothing more capable or unstoppable than a man or woman knowledgeable about who they are and where they are going.

People like you always demand that we go back and look at the "root cause" of everything and stop focusing on who's responsible for what happened NOW. It's a way to pass the blame from those who aren't doing the right thing to someone else. It's saying to people doing stupid things that it's not THEIR fault but someone else who is to blame. You didn't flunk that test in school because you didn't study for it! Oh, no...you flunked that test because of "cultural bias"! You didn't lose that job because you didn't show up to work or showed up stoned...you lost that job because of "overt racism".

 

[ClosedCaption]

You are a racist. Race is not the issue. Caribbean blacks come here and do fine. Africans come here and do fine. It is only American blacks that have issues. And that is cultural, not racial.

You basically just proved my point with that statement. Racism and slavery specifically as practiced in the US is the root problem. You denying it doesnt make it so. If you want to call it cultural racism and slavery have at it. All I know is that once the root issue of a problem can be identified you can devise a solution. Your declaration that educating yourself about the root of the matter is being racist is beyond silly. There is nothing more capable or unstoppable than a man or woman knowledgeable about who they are and where they are going.

People like you always demand that we go back and look at the "root cause" of everything and stop focusing on who's responsible for what happened NOW. It's a way to pass the blame from those who aren't doing the right thing to someone else. It's saying to people doing stupid things that it's not THEIR fault but someone else who is to blame. You didn't flunk that test in school because you didn't study for it! Oh, no...you flunked that test because of "cultural bias"! You didn't lose that job because you didn't show up to work or showed up stoned...you lost that job because of "overt racism".

So ignoring the root cause will give us greater insight of how things are today? So if you show up with a dirty shirt it would be wrong to ask how it got that way and better to tell you over and over your shirt is dirty and I'm not interested in hearing how or why?

Ohhhh....That's why saying "blacks are doing bad" over and over is seen as a virtue.

 

[Oldstyle]

You push the whole "blame game" thing and then sit there and scratch your head because black teens respond to your message by doing less and expecting more. You're not doing these kids any favors. In fact you're dooming them to a life of underachievement and complacency. That's what concentrating on "root cause" gets you.

If you really cared about these kids you'd tell them that Life isn't fair...that they got dealt a bad hand and in order to overcome that they are going to have to work harder than most people. It's a message that wasn't given to many of their parents nor their grandparents and it's had a crippling effect on large portions of the black community.

 

[Oldstyle]

You basically just proved my point with that statement. Racism and slavery specifically as practiced in the US is the root problem. You denying it doesnt make it so. If you want to call it cultural racism and slavery have at it. All I know is that once the root issue of a problem can be identified you can devise a solution. Your declaration that educating yourself about the root of the matter is being racist is beyond silly. There is nothing more capable or unstoppable than a man or woman knowledgeable about who they are and where they are going.

People like you always demand that we go back and look at the "root cause" of everything and stop focusing on who's responsible for what happened NOW. It's a way to pass the blame from those who aren't doing the right thing to someone else. It's saying to people doing stupid things that it's not THEIR fault but someone else who is to blame. You didn't flunk that test in school because you didn't study for it! Oh, no...you flunked that test because of "cultural bias"! You didn't lose that job because you didn't show up to work or showed up stoned...you lost that job because of "overt racism".

So ignoring the root cause will give us greater insight of how things are today? So if you show up with a dirty shirt it would be wrong to ask how it got that way and better to tell you over and over your shirt is dirty and I'm not interested in hearing how or why?

Ohhhh....That's why saying "blacks are doing bad" over and over is seen as a virtue.

If you show up with a dirty shirt and refuse to change it because someone else driving by splashed mud on it...then who's sitting there in a muddy shirt looking like an idiot? I don't really CARE why your shirt is dirty! I am however wondering why anyone would sit there in a wet, smelly shirt without doing something about it!

Change your shirt and get on with your life! Stop making excuses. Stop pretending that Life is fair. It isn't. It never has been. It never WILL be.

 

[Asclepias]

You are a racist. Race is not the issue. Caribbean blacks come here and do fine. Africans come here and do fine. It is only American blacks that have issues. And that is cultural, not racial.

You basically just proved my point with that statement. Racism and slavery specifically as practiced in the US is the root problem. You denying it doesnt make it so. If you want to call it cultural racism and slavery have at it. All I know is that once the root issue of a problem can be identified you can devise a solution. Your declaration that educating yourself about the root of the matter is being racist is beyond silly. There is nothing more capable or unstoppable than a man or woman knowledgeable about who they are and where they are going.

People like you always demand that we go back and look at the "root cause" of everything and stop focusing on who's responsible for what happened NOW. It's a way to pass the blame from those who aren't doing the right thing to someone else. It's saying to people doing stupid things that it's not THEIR fault but someone else who is to blame. You didn't flunk that test in school because you didn't study for it! Oh, no...you flunked that test because of "cultural bias"! You didn't lose that job because you didn't show up to work or showed up stoned...you lost that job because of "overt racism".

I think youre either confused or in denial. Where did I ever say the responsibility is not on us as Black people. You just dont want to hear the root cause because it reflects negatively on white society. If I thought like you claim I would be in prison right now. I took responsibility for what I was going to become. However that took identifying some bad habits and why those habits existed.

If I kicked my dog every time my wife said something that made me mad i would be a fool to say her actions were not the root or cause of the problem. if I left it at that then what you are saying is true. However the real revelation comes in when I discover that I can choose to ignore my wife or instead of kicking my dog go build a tree house. Now I can go to work armed with the fact that my wifes actions may make me angry but its my choice to change my conditioned response.

 

[Unkotare]

You dont have to like my opinions but a prerequisite of having a productive conversation is you at least believe the validity of what the other person says. .

Then you shouldn't be having a conversation with anyone, since you've admitted to being a liar. By your own standard no one can have a productive conversation with you.

So far only you fit that designation. .

What designation?

 

[Asclepias]

You push the whole "blame game" thing and then sit there and scratch your head because black teens respond to your message by doing less and expecting more. You're not doing these kids any favors. In fact you're dooming them to a life of underachievement and complacency. That's what concentrating on "root cause" gets you.

If you really cared about these kids you'd tell them that Life isn't fair...that they got dealt a bad hand and in order to overcome that they are going to have to work harder than most people. It's a message that wasn't given to many of their parents nor their grandparents and it's had a crippling effect on large portions of the black community.

Thats the whole point. I have already said my approach works as witnessed by my children and other children I mentor. I would criminal to not arm them with the knowledge needed to navigate this society they live in. My favorite wake up call to someone playing the blame game is "now that the white man has you down what are you going to do about? Lay there and get walked over?" Everything in your last paragraph is part of what I pass on. The problem begins when they ask "but why do I have to work harder?" I'm not into being dishonest about reality.