Zone1 4th of July vs Juneteenth

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Incorrect. The CW and Lincolns reign of terror was not about slavery. Lincoln even offered the south a constitutional amendment for slavery FOREVER.
Its the economy, stupid.

Revisionist liar

 

[TNHarley]

Revisionist liar

Nope

 

[AZrailwhale]

The slaves would not have been liberated without the Civil War

They would have eventually. Slavery in the USA had become fiscally a failure. The south had worn out its soil with overplanting trying to make slavery pay and the non-slave states finally had a majority on congress and had successfully limited slavery to those states that already had it. Slavery would have died a natural death as it did everywhere else in the Americas. It would likely have taken several decades and many thousands more would have had to endure it, but it was already dying.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Slavery would have died a natural death as it did everywhere else in the Americas.

No.

Slavery had to be ended by force everywhere it no longer exists. Just as it will have to be eliminated by force everywhere it STILL exists.

 

[IM2]

Incorrect. The CW and Lincolns reign of terror was not about slavery. Lincoln even offered the south a constitutional amendment for slavery FOREVER.
Its the economy, stupid.

There was no Lincolns reign of terror and the Corwin Amendment passed during the Buchanan presidency. Lincoln supported it though when he became president. The United States did not fight to free slaves, you are correct.

The Confederate States, which was another country, fought to preserve slavery.

 

[IM2]

They would have eventually. Slavery in the USA had become fiscally a failure. The south had worn out its soil with overplanting trying to make slavery pay and the non-slave states finally had a majority on congress and had successfully limited slavery to those states that already had it. Slavery would have died a natural death as it did everywhere else in the Americas. It would likely have taken several decades and many thousands more would have had to endure it, but it was already dying.

We don't know that. Especially when black codes, convict leasing, sharecropping and other forms of slavery were implemented

 

[Leo123]

The US has been celebrating the 4th of July for almost 250 years, we officially recognized Juneteenth last year.

Lets compare the two holidays

American Independence liberated 2.5 million Americans from British rule
Ending slavery liberated 4 million slaves

Those suffering under British rule suffered from paying taxes without being represented in the British Government
Those suffering under slavery suffered from servitude without compensation, beatings, rape and their children being taken from them

Liberating from British rule cost 30,0000 war deaths
Liberating slaves cost 600,000 war deaths

Without freedom and independence and the Constitution, slavery would still be an institution.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Without freedom and independence and the Constitution, slavery would still be an institution.

The constitution had to be changed to end slavery.

.

 

[rightwinger]

Without freedom and independence and the Constitution, slavery would still be an institution.

The Constitution enabled slavery
Not one of its finer attributes

 

[TNHarley]

There was no Lincolns reign of terror and the Corwin Amendment passed during the Buchanan presidency. Lincoln supported it though when he became president. The United States did not fight to free slaves, you are correct.

The Confederate States, which was another country, fought to preserve slavery.

Lincoln shit all over peoples rights. Closing down media outlets. Jailing dissenters. Scorched Earth. HC. Etc etc etc etc etc etc. So, yes, he did. Read a book sometime

 

[rightwinger]

They would have eventually. Slavery in the USA had become fiscally a failure. The south had worn out its soil with overplanting trying to make slavery pay and the non-slave states finally had a majority on congress and had successfully limited slavery to those states that already had it. Slavery would have died a natural death as it did everywhere else in the Americas. It would likely have taken several decades and many thousands more would have had to endure it, but it was already dying.

Without the Civil War, I think slavery would have eventually ended by the end of the 1800s.
I don’t think you would have seen freedom for blacks as we would have substituted an Apartheid type second class citizenship.
As it was, Jim Crow pretty well codified that

 

[AZrailwhale]

We don't know that. Especially when black codes, convict leasing, sharecropping and other forms of slavery were implemented

Slaves were expensive to buy and to keep. You had to feed and house them 24/7/365 regardless of how productive they were. Free immigrants were much cheaper, you only paid them when they worked, if they got injured or ill, you fired them and they paid for their own food and housing. The slave economy couldn't compete. Slavery can only compete with free labor when there is a continuous and cheap supply of slaves to the point where they are disposable. Usually that was the result of a war economy where the country's armies were continually capturing slaves from defeated enemies.
Sharecropping wasn't slavery, it was exploitation of the workers just like the immigrants were exploited in Northern factories. My uncle owned a farm because he liked to live in the country. He sharecropped it with his neighbor who did all the farming for a large percentage of the profits from the produce. The neighbor worked two farms, his own and my uncles. Both profited from the arrangement. Personally, I think convicts SHOULD be forced to work to pay for their room and board.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Lincoln shit all over peoples rights. Closing down media outlets. Jailing dissenters. Scorched Earth. HC. Etc etc etc etc etc etc. So, yes, he did. Read a book sometime

And some of the founding fathers raped slaves.

We understand that these people are products of times with worse morality and ethics.

The only one here tryingto whitewash that is you.

 

[TNHarley]

And some of the founding fathers raped slaves.

We understand that these people are products of times with worse morality and ethics.

The only one here tryingto whitewash that is you.

Has nothing to do with lincoln and his reign of terror.
What am i "whitewashing" dumbfuck?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

nothing to do with lincoln and his reign of terror.

Except for speaking directly to the historical context of every single thing he ever did or said.

But maybe that's a bit over your head

 

[TNHarley]

Except for speaking directly to the historical context of every single thing he ever did or said.

But maybe that's a bit over your head

Dude, his actions were UNPRECEDENTED
You authoritarian shit stains are all the same. Every goddamn one of you. Like a damn cult.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Dude, his actions were UNPRECEDENTED
You authoritarian shit stains are all the same. Every goddamn one of you. Like a damn cult.

And half the country committing treason to preserve the right to own slaves was also unprecedented.

Having to murder 100s of 1000s of traitor slavers... also unprecdented.

Having to change the constitution to ban slavery... also unprecedented.

It's almost as if history can't be reduced to 2 snarky sentences by an uneducated slob on a message board. Isn't it?

 

[TNHarley]

And half the country committing treason to preserve the right to own slaves was also unprecedented.

Having to murder 100s of 1000s of traitor slavers... also unprecdented.

Having to change the constitution to ban slavery... also unprecedented.

It's almost as if history can't be reduced to 2 snarky sentences by an uneducated slob on a message board. Isn't it?

Its the citizens fault the govt is tyrannical!
Here is a 2 for 1 : Lincoln wanted to change the Cosntitution to make slavery legal forever. Dumbass.
Wrong. Most of the confederates didnt own slaves.
Its almost as if you are full of shit and a pathetic lying hack
As i said, all of you are the same.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Its the citizens fault the govt is tyrannical!

Well that is an embarrassing, low IQ non sequitur that is indicative of low intellectual ability.

 

[TNHarley]

Well that is an embarrassing, low IQ non sequitur that is indicative of low intellectual ability.

Thats all you got?