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People make the choice not to save any money. If anyone is flat broke at retirement it's their own fault.Most did.
Having said that - everything you are saying detracts from the most important point of all.
Likely over half of the population of my generation is going to be flat out broke and in debt late in life.
First time in our history this is true.
In another 10 years there are going to be millions of older people needing government assistance more than ever before.
All due to people not having pensions, and doing nothing to save for retirement.
Again - everything you say is true.People make the choice not to save any money. If anyone is flat broke at retirement it's their own fault.
Saving money isn't really that difficult. Spend less than you make save up an emergency fund when that gets to about 3 months worth of your net income start saving the rest in a Roth IRA.
Do that from the time you get your first job until the say you retire.
I retired at 51 because I did just that.
You might be right.Most did.
Having said that - everything you are saying detracts from the most important point of all.
Likely over half of the population of my generation is going to be flat out broke and in debt late in life.
First time in our history this is true.
In another 10 years there are going to be millions of older people needing government assistance more than ever before.
All due to people not having pensions, and doing nothing to save for retirement.
I am right.You might be right.
I can recall a time when most blue collar workers had a pension. This allowed many working class Americans to attain a comfortable retirement, with monthly income from both SS and pensions.
Agreed.I am right.
I am 57.. assuming you are somewhere in this range?
Anyway.... our parents live off of SS and pensions.
They also paid off their mortgages before they retired... it was a little known practice people use to do called "financial planning". Most people our age has never heard of the term, and would be immediately confused if you brought it up.
My father passed in 2017.
My mother gets half his pension, and social security.
She has exactly $0 debts. And hasn't had in debt since the 1990s. Something people use to do... not use debt as income.
My father retired from General Motors in 1996.
Through planning and saving... my mother has a little over $100k in cash (well in the bank) And another $40,000 in bonds.
She is the norm for people her age (82)
This will NOT be the norm for our generation.
And boy are our children and grandchildren going to feel the burden of my generations excesses and no planning.
So if no apocalypse happens, you’re broke. Not the best long term plan.That’s why I don’t contribute to a 401K or other investment products. I prefer “hard” investments… weapons, ammo, food/water and survival products.
Sorry but I do not believe any business is responsible for the retirement of its employees.Again - everything you say is true.
But - believe it or not - you are not the only person living in the United States.
Point - replacing pensions with 401ks did 3 things...
1) It took the financial burden of retirement from companies to the employee
2) It created a monumental windfall for the investment banks to make money off of in fees and share price increases
3) It will create the largest population of elderly people deep in debt, no savings and needing YOU to cover their expenses in history that has already began to form.
Yep... Mom made money in CDs also. Those days are also gone.Agreed.
I’m 65. My parents grew up during the Great Depression. My dad had nothing. His mom died of tuberculosis when he was 8 and his dad was a terrible alcoholic. My mom fared better. Both were savers to the point of being cheap. The Great Depression scared them for life, but me and my siblings never wanted for anything.
My dad had two very lucrative pensions. With SS and the nice returns on CDs (banks use to offer high interest CDs…lol), they made more money in retirement than while working.
If there is a government pension the employees pay into that instead of social security
is it a government pension plan?
Sounds federal (FERS)
I have no expectation of a long-term LIFE, so why would I need a long-term plan?So if no apocalypse happens, you’re broke. Not the best long term plan.
So you get to collect both."government pension" is big umbrella.
As Military I paid into social security.
After retiring from military I went into the private sector for a number of years and then was recruited for my current public sector job. I've paid into social security in the military, in the private sector, and in the public sector.
WW
But you don't know when you'll go, so it's best to have a cushion available, as well as it's best to let your money work for you, rather than you work for your money.I have no expectation of a long-term LIFE, so why would I need a long-term plan?
So you get to collect both.
Why is that a problem?
Exactly no one get Ss if they don't pay in.I didn't say I had a problem. Gripper said: "What’s even more frustrating and upsetting is public workers still get pensions and often SS benefits too. " I was pointing out that to draw social securit as a public sector employees, we have pay into social security.
Pension + Social Security will equal 76% of my current annual salary. Won't make a killing, but we'll be OK.
WW
Exactly no one get Ss if they don't pay in.
It's not double dipping as was insinuated
I may not know specifically, but I do know that I will not outlive my usefulness. I have the engraved bullet loaded in a single shot handgun prepared to ensure that. So why waste time and money on things that will never come to pass?But you don't know when you'll go, so it's best to have a cushion available, as well as it's best to let your money work for you, rather than you work for your money
I'm sure corporations did benefit by replacing pension plans with 401Ks but most employees also benefited. All pension plans required employees to keep their job for a number years before they got a penny out their pension, typically 10 years but some employers vested at 15yrs. By the 1970s, people were changing jobs more often, starting new career, or in a career that required changing jobs often. We had millions of people that had been in a number jobs for 10 or 15 years and had no retirement because they did not stay long enough to be vested in the pension plan. So congress created tax sheltered retirement plans that were funded at least partially by the employee, such as 401Ks and IRAs. So no matter how often people changed jobs they would build tax sheltered retirement funds.No matter how you look at it.... corporations won, employees lost.
I remember when 401ks first come out.
Many, if not most, companies matched 100% of employee contribution... plus you could borrow from it - yay!!
Within 10 years, virtually no companies matched above 50%.... many 25%
Today the average is 3% - 5%.
Corporations got out of having to contribute to retirement and all the burden went on the employee.
But of course the borrowing is a problem. According to a study at least 1 out of three 401k plans currently are borrowed against. Just under 60% of all plans have had loans taken out of them at least once.
And then of course there are literally 100,000s of accounts that are basically abandoned with small amounts in them.
Americans are categorically horrendous in fiscal responsibility.
The stock market (S&P500) increase approximately 238% from the low of 2008 till Trump took office. During Trump's term in office the market increase approximately 81%.You're not lying about losing a third or more during the 2008 great recession.....
But your claim that you were not making money in the stock market until Trump is more than likely false! The stock market was growing years before Trump took office, under Obama!!
