4 gallon minimum

[Dissent]

EPA’s Four-gallon Minimum Mandate

Yeah good luck enforcing this assholes...I will purposely find a gas station that has this and only put 2 gallons in just to make sure I did things against their law...

 

[daveman]

So, let's say I go fill up my lawn mower gas can, which holds two gallons.

Should I just pump two more gallons on the ground?

**** the EPA. This has nothing to do with the environment; it's corporate welfare for the ethanol industry.

I thought leftists hated the idea of corporate welfare. Guess it depends on the corporation, huh?

Obama and his cronies believe the US Treasury is their personal piggy bank for repaying their friends and supporters.

This is the most corrupt Administration in history.

 

[uscitizen]

Did the Oposter even read the article?
the rule is to prevent gas stations to have to provide a seperate hose for E10 and E15 gas for those not wishing to have to put E15 gas in their tanks.

From the linked article:
The EPA approved E15 for sale in the U.S. using a partial waiver, meaning it is only approved for some vehicles on the road— cars 2001 and later.

Most of our gasoline contains only 10 percent ethanol. Increasing the ethanol content will harm older vehicles and it is downright dangerous for small engines like those found in boats, lawnmowers, or motorcycles. E15 is like metal in a microwave for a small engine.

 

[nitroz]

E15 means shittier gas mileage, less power, and higher prices.
Don't they realize that? Ethanol puts farmers to work, but it makes us pay at the pumps alot more. Try something that will improve performance and I'll back it.

 

[uscitizen]

E15 means shittier gas mileage, less power, and higher prices.
Don't they realize that? Ethanol puts farmers to work, but it makes us pay at the pumps alot more. Try something that will improve performance and I'll back it.

Yep but E10 reduces our oil imports by 10%
that is somewhat worthwhile.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Did the Oposter even read the article?
the rule is to prevent gas stations to have to provide a seperate hose for E10 and E15 gas for those not wishing to have to put E15 gas in their tanks.

From the linked article:
The EPA approved E15 for sale in the U.S. using a partial waiver, meaning it is only approved for some vehicles on the road— cars 2001 and later.

Most of our gasoline contains only 10 percent ethanol. Increasing the ethanol content will harm older vehicles and it is downright dangerous for small engines like those found in boats, lawnmowers, or motorcycles. E15 is like metal in a microwave for a small engine.

Considering how much fossil fuel is required to produce each gallon of ethanol, not to mention how detrimental ethanol is to most engines, ethanol should. E eliminated altogether. Again, ethanol subsidies have far less to do with environmental concerns than with government subsidies use to pay off big agribusiness.

 

[gallantwarrior]

E15 means shittier gas mileage, less power, and higher prices.
Don't they realize that? Ethanol puts farmers to work, but it makes us pay at the pumps alot more. Try something that will improve performance and I'll back it.

Eliminate ethanol and the farmers would still work. But feed would be cheaper, as well as everything else made from corn. But it's all irrelevant, since most corn is GMO now anyhow. And guess who,controls GMO production?

 

[Sarge]

E15 means shittier gas mileage, less power, and higher prices.
Don't they realize that? Ethanol puts farmers to work, but it makes us pay at the pumps alot more. Try something that will improve performance and I'll back it.

Eliminate ethanol and the farmers would still work. But feed would be cheaper, as well as everything else made from corn. But it's all irrelevant, since most corn is GMO now anyhow. And guess who,controls GMO production?

Agreed. Farmers worked long before ethanol was mandated at the pump.

 

[daveman]

E15 means shittier gas mileage, less power, and higher prices.
Don't they realize that? Ethanol puts farmers to work, but it makes us pay at the pumps alot more. Try something that will improve performance and I'll back it.

Yep but E10 reduces our oil imports by 10%
that is somewhat worthwhile.

Not by 10%, it doesn't. There is less energy in a gallon of ethanol than there is in a gallon of gasoline.

With only 2/3 the energy of gasoline, ethanol costs more per mile

The energy of ethanol relative to gasoline
A. 76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol
B. 116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline
C. .655 = 2/3 = GGE of energy in a gallon of ethanol. A / B. (GGE =energy in a gal. of gas)
D. 1.53 = Gallons of ethanol with the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline. D = B / A.
The basic story on ethanol mileage and cost
Some Ethanol proponents claim it doesn't hurt their mileage, but this goes against physics, and you will not find the ethanol lobby making such fraudulent claims--they could be sued. But just to be sure, zFacts analyzed all of EPA's ethanol mileage tests for one year and, big surprise, ethanol gave exactly 2/3 the mileage of gasoline.

--

The USDA tells us that ethanol cost 57¢ more per gallon on average over the last 25 years (and it still does). Put that together with the fact that it takes 1.53 gallons to equal a gallon of gasoline.​

So E10 will reduce oil imports by 6%.

Furthermore, ethanol takes more energy to produce that it contains.

70 Percent More Energy Required to Make Ethanol than Actually is in Ethanol: Cornell

Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 Btu are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 Btu. "Put another way," Pimentel said, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 Btu."​

 

[gallantwarrior]

E15 means shittier gas mileage, less power, and higher prices.
Don't they realize that? Ethanol puts farmers to work, but it makes us pay at the pumps alot more. Try something that will improve performance and I'll back it.

Yep but E10 reduces our oil imports by 10%
that is somewhat worthwhile.

Not by 10%, it doesn't. There is less energy in a gallon of ethanol than there is in a gallon of gasoline.

With only 2/3 the energy of gasoline, ethanol costs more per mile

The energy of ethanol relative to gasoline
A. 76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol
B. 116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline
C. .655 = 2/3 = GGE of energy in a gallon of ethanol. A / B. (GGE =energy in a gal. of gas)
D. 1.53 = Gallons of ethanol with the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline. D = B / A.
The basic story on ethanol mileage and cost
Some Ethanol proponents claim it doesn't hurt their mileage, but this goes against physics, and you will not find the ethanol lobby making such fraudulent claims--they could be sued. But just to be sure, zFacts analyzed all of EPA's ethanol mileage tests for one year and, big surprise, ethanol gave exactly 2/3 the mileage of gasoline.

--

The USDA tells us that ethanol cost 57¢ more per gallon on average over the last 25 years (and it still does). Put that together with the fact that it takes 1.53 gallons to equal a gallon of gasoline.​

So E10 will reduce oil imports by 6%.

Furthermore, ethanol takes more energy to produce that it contains.

70 Percent More Energy Required to Make Ethanol than Actually is in Ethanol: Cornell

Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 Btu are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 Btu. "Put another way," Pimentel said, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 Btu."​

But, but, but....ethanol is better for the environment!!!

 

[OKTexas]

Congress is trying to resend the 10% requirement because of its impact on food prices during the drought, you can't burn food and then complain people are hungry. The commiecrats haven't figured that one out. Abolish the EPA.

 

[Sarge]

Congress is trying to resend the 10% requirement because of its impact on food prices during the drought, you can't burn food and then complain people are hungry. The commiecrats haven't figured that one out. Abolish the EPA.

I agree. The EPA is a huge thorn in side of industry.

 

[daveman]

Yep but E10 reduces our oil imports by 10%
that is somewhat worthwhile.

Not by 10%, it doesn't. There is less energy in a gallon of ethanol than there is in a gallon of gasoline.

With only 2/3 the energy of gasoline, ethanol costs more per mile

The energy of ethanol relative to gasoline
A. 76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol
B. 116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline
C. .655 = 2/3 = GGE of energy in a gallon of ethanol. A / B. (GGE =energy in a gal. of gas)
D. 1.53 = Gallons of ethanol with the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline. D = B / A.
The basic story on ethanol mileage and cost
Some Ethanol proponents claim it doesn't hurt their mileage, but this goes against physics, and you will not find the ethanol lobby making such fraudulent claims--they could be sued. But just to be sure, zFacts analyzed all of EPA's ethanol mileage tests for one year and, big surprise, ethanol gave exactly 2/3 the mileage of gasoline.

--

The USDA tells us that ethanol cost 57¢ more per gallon on average over the last 25 years (and it still does). Put that together with the fact that it takes 1.53 gallons to equal a gallon of gasoline.​

So E10 will reduce oil imports by 6%.

Furthermore, ethanol takes more energy to produce that it contains.

70 Percent More Energy Required to Make Ethanol than Actually is in Ethanol: Cornell

Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 Btu are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 Btu. "Put another way," Pimentel said, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 Btu."​

But, but, but....ethanol is better for the environment!!!

So the greenies want us to believe.

In reality, it's terrible for the environment.

Dead zone in gulf linked to ethanol production - SFGate

The gulf dead zone is the second-largest in the world, after one in the Baltic Sea. Scientists say the biggest culprit is industrial-scale corn production. Corn growers are heavy users of both nitrogen and pesticides. Vast monocultures of corn and soybeans, both subsidized by the federal government, have displaced diversified farms and grasslands throughout the Mississippi Basin.

"The subsidies are driving farmers toward more corn," said Gene Turner, a zoologist at Louisiana State University. "More nitrate comes off corn fields than it does off of any other crop by far. And nitrogen is driving the formation of the dead zone."

The dead zone, he said, is "a symptom of the homogenization of the landscape. We just have a few crops on what used to have all kinds of different vegetation."

In 2007, Congress passed a renewable fuels standard that requires ethanol production to triple in the next 12 years. The Department of Agriculture has just rolled out a plan to meet that goal, including building ethanol refineries in every state. The Environmental Protection Agency will decide soon whether to increase the amount of ethanol in gasoline blends from 10 percent to 15 percent.

A 2008 National Research Council report warned of a "considerable" increase in damage to the gulf if ethanol production is increased.​

So, in summary:

Ethanol product wastes energy and damages the environment.

Any of you lefties still want to make the case that ethanol is a good thing?

 

[Clementine]

The EPA has way too much power and can make any law they want without congress' approval. No one should have that much authority. The EPA chief is all about making cap and trade a reality, which is why Obama picked her.

The gas station I use has separate hoses for the different fuels and I refuse to put that ethanol crap in my vehicle. Even after ethanol destroyed some older vehicles, nothing changed and I'll bet the people who owned the damaged vehicles weren't compensated.

Daveman, the libs won't admit this was a major screw up. I think they want credit for all their "good intentions" but no responsibility when things are made worse. I don't think ethanol was ever proven to be a good thing, but the government loves subsidizing farmers.

 

[percysunshine]

Gas stations should be required to provide a seperate hose for morphine injections.

Seams logical...

 

[TheOldSchool]

Congress is trying to resend the 10% requirement because of its impact on food prices during the drought, you can't burn food and then complain people are hungry. The commiecrats haven't figured that one out. Abolish the EPA.

The type of corn that is used to make ethanol is not the kind that can be sold for food. The "commiecrats" you speak of know that your point is moot.

There is no profit for anyone in the making of ethanol it only exists for the purpose of government subsidies. It's not a democrat or republican issue; simply go to any of the states where ethanol is a political issue and you'll see that no candidate has any chance of winning anything unless they show full support for ethanol production regardless of their political leanings.

 

[nitroz]

Yep but E10 reduces our oil imports by 10%
that is somewhat worthwhile.

Not by 10%, it doesn't. There is less energy in a gallon of ethanol than there is in a gallon of gasoline.

With only 2/3 the energy of gasoline, ethanol costs more per mile

The energy of ethanol relative to gasoline
A. 76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol
B. 116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline
C. .655 = 2/3 = GGE of energy in a gallon of ethanol. A / B. (GGE =energy in a gal. of gas)
D. 1.53 = Gallons of ethanol with the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline. D = B / A.
The basic story on ethanol mileage and cost
Some Ethanol proponents claim it doesn't hurt their mileage, but this goes against physics, and you will not find the ethanol lobby making such fraudulent claims--they could be sued. But just to be sure, zFacts analyzed all of EPA's ethanol mileage tests for one year and, big surprise, ethanol gave exactly 2/3 the mileage of gasoline.

--

The USDA tells us that ethanol cost 57¢ more per gallon on average over the last 25 years (and it still does). Put that together with the fact that it takes 1.53 gallons to equal a gallon of gasoline.​

So E10 will reduce oil imports by 6%.

Furthermore, ethanol takes more energy to produce that it contains.

70 Percent More Energy Required to Make Ethanol than Actually is in Ethanol: Cornell

Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 Btu are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 Btu. "Put another way," Pimentel said, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 Btu."​

But, but, but....ethanol is better for the environment!!!

No it isn't.

Whats better?
100% gas that doesn't require much energy to produce, gets better mileage, and is cheaper?

Or ethanol which cost more, requires much more energy to be produced, puts out less energy than what was required to make it, robs your engine of power and gas mileage, polluting everything up in the long run?

 

[Erand7899]

Congress is trying to resend the 10% requirement because of its impact on food prices during the drought, you can't burn food and then complain people are hungry. The commiecrats haven't figured that one out. Abolish the EPA.

The type of corn that is used to make ethanol is not the kind that can be sold for food. The "commiecrats" you speak of know that your point is moot.

There is no profit for anyone in the making of ethanol it only exists for the purpose of government subsidies. It's not a democrat or republican issue; simply go to any of the states where ethanol is a political issue and you'll see that no candidate has any chance of winning anything unless they show full support for ethanol production regardless of their political leanings.

The type of corn that is used to make ethanol is the kind of food that feeds cows, pigs, chickens, etc. Those, we eat.

 

[percysunshine]

Congress is trying to resend the 10% requirement because of its impact on food prices during the drought, you can't burn food and then complain people are hungry. The commiecrats haven't figured that one out. Abolish the EPA.

The type of corn that is used to make ethanol is not the kind that can be sold for food. The "commiecrats" you speak of know that your point is moot.

There is no profit for anyone in the making of ethanol it only exists for the purpose of government subsidies. It's not a democrat or republican issue; simply go to any of the states where ethanol is a political issue and you'll see that no candidate has any chance of winning anything unless they show full support for ethanol production regardless of their political leanings.

Did you carbo-load before this post?

 

[TheOldSchool]

Congress is trying to resend the 10% requirement because of its impact on food prices during the drought, you can't burn food and then complain people are hungry. The commiecrats haven't figured that one out. Abolish the EPA.

The type of corn that is used to make ethanol is not the kind that can be sold for food. The "commiecrats" you speak of know that your point is moot.

There is no profit for anyone in the making of ethanol it only exists for the purpose of government subsidies. It's not a democrat or republican issue; simply go to any of the states where ethanol is a political issue and you'll see that no candidate has any chance of winning anything unless they show full support for ethanol production regardless of their political leanings.

The type of corn that is used to make ethanol is the kind of food that feeds cows, pigs, chickens, etc. Those, we eat.

Um, cows and pigs do not eat the quality of corn humans eat. It's like how apples that are used for cider are nearly inedible as opposed to apples that humans can pluck off of a tree and eat. One type of corn, the one for feed and ethanol, is overproduced and a menace to the country.