3 Simple Questions for Democrats and others who support them today.

[Charles_Main]

Ok I have 3 very simple questions:


1) How many of you really understand how much 1 Trillion or 10 Trillion dollars is.

Or national Debt is TEN THOUSAND BILLION DOLLARS a Billion being 1000 Million. Or Around 33000 dollars per person in the USA. Divide 10 trillion by 300 Million You will get 33,333.333333333333333

2) If the Democrats maintain or increase their control of the Congress and Obama has 2 terms. In 8 years how much Debt do you believe they will accumulate?

My guess is if Obama has 8 years with the Dems in Control of Congress the whole time. They will come close to doubling the Current Debt for a total of 20 Trillion.

3) How much Debt is to much? At what point will our Debt load become to much to bare and cause catastrophic Economic and Currency collapse?

IMO the answer is a number lower than we are already at. We are already seeing the disastrous effects of Years of Deficit spending. Tight Credit markets, Falling Dollar Values.

IMO We are very near a Point of No return, a Critical Mass. Where our Currency value will collapse. Today it is down, but still among the most valuable in the world. I am talking about a collapse that will make our money worth a fraction of what it is today. Basically we would become a 3rd world nation. The signs are all around us. The Credit markets and Falling dollar values as I said. The fact that it is becoming harder and harder to sell US bonds, Which is how we sell the Debt. the Interest alone on what we owe now is = to what our entire National Budget was just a few short years ago. So I would say we can not spend any more or we face ruin.

We have added 3.7 Trillion in New Debt since 2007, and are well on our way to making that an even 5 trillion in 2 years. We also have Tens of Trillions. With a T, in up coming unfounded obligations through SS, Medicare, and Medicaid.

So please give me a chance to understand your mindset. I mean I know many of the Things you all want to spend on are noble. Some are good ideas even, but answer me these 3 questions would you please?

 

[Paulie]

It's not just democrats. We've seen so many hundreds of billion dollars frivolously thrown at this mess the past year, that we're numb to those numbers now.

The government has carte blanche to spend however much it wants because we've been conditioned to accept that much money as being not a big deal.

 

[manu1959]

It's not just democrats. We've seen so many hundreds of billion dollars frivolously thrown at this mess the past year, that we're numb to those numbers now.

The government has carte blanche to spend however much it wants because we've been conditioned to accept that much money as being not a big deal.

no shit last night i watched a bunch of politicians get all excited that they had only spent 780 billion instead of 820 billion.....and only 1/3 of it is actual cash to stimulate the economy.....how much did bush and co blow before christmas.....

 

[xsited1]

... crickets ...

Obama wants the 'stimulus' package and that's all that matters to them. What more is there to say? And they don't believe Social Security will ever go bankrupt. Go figure.

 

[Paulie]

Remember when we used to bitch about hundreds of MILLIONS?

What a bunch of pussies we were!

 

[Peejay]

Asking this question only of democrats ? Wow. The question isn't about spending the money, it's about what it's spent on. Either party spends ridiculous amounts of money. The only difference is that one side builds new things, the other blows up existing things and then rebuilds them so they can be blown up again. Presto, a never ending source of economic value !

But seriously, the US economy is at critical mass. This money we're talking about doesn't even exist. It's a figment of the imaginations of hedge funders and Wall street managers. There can be a basic understanding that money = product. No matter how you slice it, it comes back to that sooner or later. The national check book has to be balanced every so often. Just because you have checks left doesn't mean there is money. Most people understand the check to money analogy but can't seem to grasp the money to product analogy for some odd reason.

 

[Peejay]

... crickets ...

Obama wants the 'stimulus' package and that's all that matters to them. What more is there to say? And they don't believe Social Security will ever go bankrupt. Go figure.

Social Security won't go bankrupt until we drive the illegals out. We've been told that SS was going bankrupt for as long as I could understand the words Social Security. It hasn't happened. In fact, each time some other government entity needs cash, they borrow from SS. The dirty little secret ? 50 billion dollars annually paid into SS by illegals that they can never collect. Be sure to tell grandma to say thanks to a Mexican in the grocery store.

 

[Charles_Main]

Asking this question only of democrats ? Wow.

I asked this question of Democrats and their supporters, who currently are 3 republicans in the Senate and none in the house. I asked it of them because they are the ones doing the spending right now! They have a near super majority in Both Houses of Congress. So it is time to stop saying why are you only asking Democrats this question. I ask you because you are the ones supporting doing this spending now.

Democrats have been in control of Both Houses of Congress since jan 2007. In that time they spent, and Bush approved 2.7 Trillion DOLLARS in 2 Years, and are now spending nearly 1 Trillion more with more to come to bail out housing.

It is outrageous to think we can sustain this.

For the record I have been critical of Republicans and Bush all along for spending to much money, and for printing new money, and for Borrowing. I am just so tired of hearing the blame game and excuses. Oh look what Bush did, oh look what Reagan Did.

STOP!!!!

Lets figure out how to fix this shit before it is to late. In order to do that, Blame can not be a part of it.

STOP THE SPENDING.

Now is anyone going to actually answer my 3 questions?

 

[Charles_Main]

... crickets ...

Obama wants the 'stimulus' package and that's all that matters to them. What more is there to say? And they don't believe Social Security will ever go bankrupt. Go figure.

Social Security won't go bankrupt until we drive the illegals out. We've been told that SS was going bankrupt for as long as I could understand the words Social Security. It hasn't happened. In fact, each time some other government entity needs cash, they borrow from SS. The dirty little secret ? 50 billion dollars annually paid into SS by illegals that they can never collect. Be sure to tell grandma to say thanks to a Mexican in the grocery store.

To bad 50 Billion is a tiny fraction of what SS pays out.

 

[xsited1]

... crickets ...

Obama wants the 'stimulus' package and that's all that matters to them. What more is there to say? And they don't believe Social Security will ever go bankrupt. Go figure.

Social Security won't go bankrupt until we drive the illegals out. We've been told that SS was going bankrupt for as long as I could understand the words Social Security. It hasn't happened. In fact, each time some other government entity needs cash, they borrow from SS. The dirty little secret ? 50 billion dollars annually paid into SS by illegals that they can never collect. Be sure to tell grandma to say thanks to a Mexican in the grocery store.

That explains why Democrats cater to illegals.

There is a social security crises coming our way, but people disagree as to when it hits. Bill Clinton gave 3 solutions to the impending crises:

1. Raise the retirement age.
2. Decrease the benefits.
3. Privatize.

All 3 could be used to save us from a disaster.

 

[Skull Pilot]

U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 12 Feb 2009 at 1004 PM GMT is:
$ 1 0 , 7 1 6 , 6 3 2 , 6 1 0 , 9 3 8 . 0 4

The estimated population of the United States is 305,635,522
so each citizen's share of this debt is $35,063.44.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$3.40 billion per day since September 28, 2007!
Concerned? Then tell Congress and the White House!

U.S. National Debt Clock

 

[xsited1]

U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 12 Feb 2009 at 1004 PM GMT is:
$ 1 0 , 7 1 6 , 6 3 2 , 6 1 0 , 9 3 8 . 0 4

The estimated population of the United States is 305,635,522
so each citizen's share of this debt is $35,063.44.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$3.40 billion per day since September 28, 2007!
Concerned? Then tell Congress and the White House!

U.S. National Debt Clock

I just called my Congressman and he said he just gave himself a raise and not to worry about the debt.

 

[Peejay]

I don't know. All I hear from each side is the same thing: "Dear Government, SAVE US PLEASE". Best get busy saving ourselves, dont you think ?

Want to cure the ills of the banking and lending industry ? Want to do what the government can't and won't ? Want to force the banks to back off risky and predatory lending ? Easy enough. Everyone, take every penny they offer. Don't pay any of it back. Take the money. Why not ? It's our money. Let's see, you're saving a little money at 3 or 4% out of your right pocket. The same people you save with loan you your own money back at 19% out of your left car payment pocket. Out of your rear pocket goes the retirement investments from your paycheck. They just disappeared into the toxic loans made back to your kids over at the university ! Now, to top it all off, let's give these scammers a big ol' chunk of tax revenue so they can loan us some more of our own money, at interest.

Screw them, it's gone on long enough. Too many people getting something for nothing and those welfare checks everyone likes to bitch about aren't a drop in the bucket compared to this epic heist.

The most sinister and anti-social feature about bank-deposit money is that it has no existence. The banks owe the public for a total amount of money which does not exist. In buying and selling, implemented by cheque transactions, there is a mere change in the party to the whom the money is owed by the banks. As the one depositor's account is debited, the other is credited and the banks can go on owing for it all the time.

"The whole profit of the issuance of money has provided the capital of the great banking business as it exists today. Starting with nothing whatever of their own, they have got the whole world into their debt irredeemably, by a trick.

"This money comes into existence every time the banks 'lend' and disappears every time the debt is repaid to them. So that if industry tries to repay, the money of the nation disappears. This is what makes prosperity so 'dangerous' as it destroys money just when it is most needed and precipitates a slump.

"There is nothing left now for us but to get ever deeper and deeper into debt to the banking system in order to provide the increasing amounts of money the nation requires for its expansion and growth. An honest money system is the only alternative." -- Frederick Soddy, M.A., F.R.S., Nobel Prize Winner, 1921.

 

[Charles_Main]

Look at this article from last year freaking about a 400 Billion dollar Deficit in 08.\\

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-10-07-deficit_N.htm?csp=34

the good ole days I guess, back when the Government was not going into debt to the tune of almost 2 TRILLION A YEAR.

 

[Skull Pilot]

A Lending Lesson to Congress About Where Loans Come From - WSJ.com

Yesterday members of the House Financial Services committee hauled in CEOs of banks receiving TARP funds to explain why they aren't lending the money. The CEOs largely rejected the premise. J.P. Morgan's Jamie Dimon said, "Our consumer loan balances increased by 2.1% in the fourth quarter, while overall personal consumption expenditure in the country decreased by 2.3% over the same period. That is to say, we lent more even as consumers cut back on their spending during the quarter."

Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf noted that in the fourth quarter his bank increased loans to students, businesses, farms, and commercial real estate by double-digit rates.

Yesterday's testimony tracks the numbers reported by the Federal Reserve, which show that lending by U.S. banks and other depository institutions increased in the fourth quarter, despite accusations that banks aren't putting TARP money "on the street." What the politicians don't seem to realize is that commercial banks provide little more than 20% of credit in the economy, as Bert Ely recently noted in these pages. Nonbank lending, including investor purchases of asset-backed securities, is still the missing ingredient in our markets. Alas for Congress, those investors don't make ripe targets for the TV cameras at the witness table.

 

[Peejay]

... crickets ...

Obama wants the 'stimulus' package and that's all that matters to them. What more is there to say? And they don't believe Social Security will ever go bankrupt. Go figure.

Social Security won't go bankrupt until we drive the illegals out. We've been told that SS was going bankrupt for as long as I could understand the words Social Security. It hasn't happened. In fact, each time some other government entity needs cash, they borrow from SS. The dirty little secret ? 50 billion dollars annually paid into SS by illegals that they can never collect. Be sure to tell grandma to say thanks to a Mexican in the grocery store.

To bad 50 Billion is a tiny fraction of what SS pays out.

Care to define "tiny fraction" ? If 50 billion is a "tiny fraction" of what SS pays out, you shouldn't mind sending me a check for the same "tiny fraction" of your income. Right ? You'd hardly miss a "tiny fraction".

 

[Dark Starscream]

Ok I have 3 very simple questions:

1) How many of you really understand how much 1 Trillion or 10 Trillion dollars is.

I understand how much it is. Do you realize that in our nation's entire history, between George Washington and George W. Bush, we had accumulated $5 billion in debt. George W. Bush managed to DOUBLE it in only 8 years! He had an opportunity to pay it down, as he started his first year with a budget surplus (thanks to Billy)... but instead managed to preside over the 5 highest national deficits in history. Next.



2) If the Democrats maintain or increase their control of the Congress and Obama has 2 terms. In 8 years how much Debt do you believe they will accumulate?

I doubt it will be more than what Bush spent... only this time, it won't be spent on a needless war based on lies.

3) How much Debt is to much? At what point will our Debt load become to much to bare and cause catastrophic Economic and Currency collapse?

It is already too much! But in this case, what other choice is there to repair our economy? This is the emergency that previous Presidents should have been saving for, and Bush should have been more focused on paying down the national debt like Bill Clinton was in his last two years.

 

[Paulie]

Lending must be off at least somewhat, becuase there's 3 new casino projects by me that have either postponed their construction completely, or postponed a major portion of it. 2 were due to break ground this year, and both are on complete hold indefinitely. The other one, Revelle, has started construction, but all interior work has been put on hold. Reasons given for all of them are 'insufficient financing'.

Casino revenue is way down right now, too. That might be a reason for the lack of financing. If I was a bank, i wouldn't want to risk lending out billions for an industry that's losing that much money either.

 

[Charles_Main]

Ok I have 3 very simple questions:

1) How many of you really understand how much 1 Trillion or 10 Trillion dollars is.

I understand how much it is. Do you realize that in our nation's entire history, between George Washington and George W. Bush, we had accumulated $5 billion in debt. George W. Bush managed to DOUBLE it in only 8 years! He had an opportunity to pay it down, as he started his first year with a budget surplus (thanks to Billy)... but instead managed to preside over the 5 highest national deficits in history. Next.

I am well aware What Bush did. However you forget it takes a congress and a president to spend money. I am not sure what that has to do with today? Are you justifying how fast congress (which has been controlled by Dems for 2 full years now.) is spending money now, by saying Bush doubled our debt in 8 years?

Since Jan 07 when the Dems took over Congress we have spent 3.7 Trillion dollars in New Debt, over and above revenues. Are you telling me it is ok we are spending this fast because Bush spent a lot to?

Never mind the fact that you ignore the fact that Congress is the one who actually spends money. All the president does is propose a budget(which is almost always changed significantly by Congress) and sign bills into law. He can not spend money with out congresses help so trying to lay the blame squarely on Bush and Bush alone is stupid.

The same goes for Obama. His role in this newest spending bill. It is part his fault, for not making it clear there was to be no waste in this bill, But the Democrat leadership in congress is the real culprit. if or when depending on what you believe. This Bill fails to Stimulate the Economy. Most of the blame will be laid at Obama's feet, but it should really be at the feat of the Democrats in Congress. Obama's failure in this is one of leadership. The Dems in Congress, and 3 Republican Senators are the one actually to blame for this wasteful Bill which I believe wont do SHIT, but stimulate Special Interests that Helped the Dems get to where they are.

2) If the Democrats maintain or increase their control of the Congress and Obama has 2 terms. In 8 years how much Debt do you believe they will accumulate?

I doubt it will be more than what Bush spent... only this time, it won't be spent on a needless war based on lies.

Are you really this dense? We can debate on how needless the war was, However the Amount spent on the war is less than 20% of the 5 Trillion in New Debt we occurred under Bush. So it makes little sense to blame it on the War. Most of the new debt was incurred because of the New Medicaid Part b, and the Stimulus packages we have all ready passed.

besides where do you come up with the Idea that Obama will not grow more debt than Bush did? Obama himself says to expect trillion dollar deficits for some time to come. Bushes single biggest 1 year deficit was in 08 at almost half a trillion. Obama will be over 1.5 Trillion in his first year. Seems to me it is almost assured Obama will accumilate more than the 5 Trillion in new Debt Bush did. Significantly more in fact.

3) How much Debt is to much? At what point will our Debt load become to much to bare and cause catastrophic Economic and Currency collapse?

It is already too much! But in this case, what other choice is there to repair our economy? This is the emergency that previous Presidents should have been saving for, and Bush should have been more focused on paying down the national debt like Bill Clinton was in his last two years.

Ok this statement is so full of BS I cant let it slide.

First off Bill Clinton had a Budget surplus for a couple of years. That is true. However it is a blatant lie to say he was " focused on paying down the national debt". He never used one penny of the surpluses to pay down the Debt.

I think maybe you do not even understand the difference between Deficits and Debt. under no time under Clinton did the Total Debt decrease one penny. We simply did not add any new Debt for a few years by not running a budget Deficit.

Ok now as far as your first comment. About having no choice. This is where you, millions of other Americans, and the Dems and Obama are wrong. So very wrong. You admit the Debt is a huge issue. The root cause of most our woes, then turn around and advocate adding even more debt. It makes no sense at all to spend cash for what will amount to at best a short lived up tick in the economy, when you have to Borrow or Print the Money to spend it. You are not fixing anything, you are delaying a serious problem, which will be even worse because of the new Debt you accumulated.

Franky I am not sure why I waste my time with people sometimes. You People know we can not afford this spend, you just don't give a fuck anymore do you. Sometimes I wonder why I do.

 

[Charles_Main]

Social Security won't go bankrupt until we drive the illegals out. We've been told that SS was going bankrupt for as long as I could understand the words Social Security. It hasn't happened. In fact, each time some other government entity needs cash, they borrow from SS. The dirty little secret ? 50 billion dollars annually paid into SS by illegals that they can never collect. Be sure to tell grandma to say thanks to a Mexican in the grocery store.

To bad 50 Billion is a tiny fraction of what SS pays out.

Care to define "tiny fraction" ? If 50 billion is a "tiny fraction" of what SS pays out, you shouldn't mind sending me a check for the same "tiny fraction" of your income. Right ? You'd hardly miss a "tiny fraction".

Don't have google? Last year it was over 612 Billion SS paid out. More than half of that in disability not retirement payments. so tthat 50 Billion is only a small amount of the pie.

Besides those same illegals who do not collect, will if the Dems have their way, and they already are costing us through Medicaid.