Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
It is estimated it would take 72 square miles of solar panels to power Los Angeles.
How many square miles are needed after sunset?
3.573 TRILLION kWh is needed if 25% of all cars/trucks in USA are EVs. Would any of you EV supporters please refute that FACT?
- Thread starter healthmyths
- Start date
It is estimated it would take 72 square miles of solar panels to power Los Angeles.
How many square miles are needed after sunset?
ReinyDays
Platinum Member
At 20¢/kW-hr ... that's 7¢ per mile ...
$2.50 per gallon at 25 mpg is 10¢ per mile ... plus oil, filters, fuel pumps, hoses, spark plugs, points, condensors, distributor caps ... spark plug wires, EEG sensors, oxygen sensors, NOX sensors, valve cover gaskets, oil seals ... yeah, gasoline isn't the most expensive part of owning a rig ... the engine is ...
healthmyths
Diamond Member
- Sep 19, 2011
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Which would you prefer... paying the above AND having your A/C your heating, your oven, your TV, yes even your computer working. All of those don't depend on gas... BUT electricity does and while you make a valid suggestion... I'd offer you that the FACTS are missing from your point. WHERE are your links, substantiating your claim?
Now for the FACTS:
Electric Cars vs Gas Cars Cost in Each State | Self Financial
The price of electric cars vs gas cars can be confusing. We’ve taken hundreds of data points to give you an accurate state-by-state comparison.
- The average annual cost to run an electric vehicle in the USA is $3,679
- When factoring in purchase cost, the average cost of an EV is $10,360 each year
- The average annual cost to run a gas vehicle in the USA is $4,336
- When factoring in purchase cost, the average cost of a gas vehicle is $8,691 each year
So tell where your statistics come from?
But in reality... do you really want just ONE source of power, i.e. electricity which is totally dependent on the availability
of electricity when the number of black outs has increased per these facts:
Blackouts have increased to from 2007, there were 76, in 2011, more than 300.”
Are Power Outages Becoming More Frequent? - Northside Power
Rarely, we’re ever able to predict the future, and yet, one thing we know with certainty is that power outages are going to become more and more frequent over time.
northsidepower.com
Tell me if The State of Jefferson a proposed U.S. state of southern Oregon and Northern California, would mandate EVs as Calif has IN spite of the realistic number that would you be ok with that?
healthmyths
Diamond Member
- Sep 19, 2011
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I forgot to add these costs to your EV supposedly savings...
Are you aware that when Biden said.."I want you to look into my eyes, I guarantee We Are Going To Get Rid of Fossil Fuels”...
Are you aware if Biden's guarantee occurs, riding fossil fuels which I assume you agree with tell me why won't the cost of the tires for your EV will increase...how much I can't say but here is the reason why:
According to the Rubber Manufacturers Association, it takes “approximately seven gallons” of oil to produce a single tire.
That translates to approximately 5 billion gallons of crude oil (note: at today's price of $2 the total cost to tire makers over $10 billion a year) utilized to make tires each year.
Over the last three years tire prices have increased an average of 70%. In other words a tire that was $100 at the beginning of 2009 is probably listed around $170 today.
How Oil Prices Impact Tire Pricing
As the price of oil and gas continues to soar, what does this mean to the tire industry? We explore the real issues...
Also indirectly the cost of driving on asphalt roads will increase again how much but because of this fact:
Or how about the FACT that your taxes used to construct asphalt roads will skyrocket because when Biden rids fossil fuels,
what will replace oil that in making asphalt, 1.312 billion barrels a year in oil is used?
Products made from petroleum | Ranken Energy Corporation
www.ranken-energy.com
Just two major of 6,000 other than gas, products that depend on fossil fuels.
Products made from petroleum | Ranken Energy Corporation
www.ranken-energy.com
One 42-gallon barrel of oil creates 19.4 gallons of gasoline. The rest (over half) is used to make things like:
Solvents Diesel fuel Motor Oil Bearing Grease Ink Floor Wax Ballpoint Pens Football CleatsUpholstery Sweaters Boats Insecticides Bicycle Tires Sports Car Bodies Nail Polish Fishing lures Dresses Tires Golf Bags Perfumes Cassettes Dishwasher parts Tool Boxes Shoe Polish Motorcycle Helmet Caulking Petroleum Jelly Transparent Tape CD Player Faucet Washers Antiseptics Clothesline Curtains Food Preservatives Basketballs Soap Vitamin Capsules Antihistamines Purses Shoes Dashboards Cortisone Deodorant Shoelace Aglets Putty Dyes Panty Hose Refrigerant Percolators Life Jackets Rubbing Alcohol Linings Skis TV Cabinets Shag Rugs Electrician’s Tape Tool Racks Car Battery Cases Epoxy Paint Mops Slacks Insect Repellent Oil Filters Umbrellas Yarn Fertilizers Hair Coloring Roofing Toilet Seats Fishing Rods Lipstick Denture Adhesive Linoleum Ice Cube Trays Synthetic Rubber Speakers Plastic Wood Electric Blankets Glycerin Tennis Rackets Rubber Cement Fishing Boots Dice Nylon Rope Candles Trash Bags House Paint Water Pipes Hand Lotion Roller Skates Surf Boards Shampoo Wheels Paint Rollers Shower Curtains Guitar Strings Luggage Aspirin Safety Glasses Antifreeze Football Helmets Awnings Eyeglasses Clothes Toothbrushes Ice Chests Footballs Combs CD’s & DVD’s Paint Brushes Detergents Vaporizers Balloons Sun Glasses Tents Heart Valves Crayons Parachutes Telephones Enamel Pillows Dishes Cameras Anesthetics Artificial Turf Artificial limbs Bandages Dentures Model Cars Folding Doors Hair Curlers Cold cream Movie film Contact lenses Drinking Cups Fan Belts Car Enamel Shaving Cream Ammonia Refrigerators Golf Balls Toothpaste Gasoline
healthmyths
Diamond Member
- Sep 19, 2011
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I forgot to add these costs to your EV supposedly savings...
Are you aware that when Biden said.."I want you to look into my eyes, I guarantee We Are Going To Get Rid of Fossil Fuels”...
Are you aware if Biden's guarantee occurs, riding fossil fuels which I assume you agree with tell me why won't the cost of the tires for your EV will increase...how much I can't say but here is the reason why:
According to the Rubber Manufacturers Association, it takes “approximately seven gallons” of oil to produce a single tire.
That translates to approximately 5 billion gallons of crude oil (note: at today's price of $2 the total cost to tire makers over $10 billion a year) utilized to make tires each year.
Over the last three years tire prices have increased an average of 70%. In other words a tire that was $100 at the beginning of 2009 is probably listed around $170 today.
How Oil Prices Impact Tire Pricing
As the price of oil and gas continues to soar, what does this mean to the tire industry? We explore the real issues...www.dunntire.com
Also indirectly the cost of driving on asphalt roads will increase again how much but because of this fact:
Or how about the FACT that your taxes used to construct asphalt roads will skyrocket because when Biden rids fossil fuels,
what will replace oil that in making asphalt, 1.312 billion barrels a year in oil is used?
Products made from petroleum | Ranken Energy Corporation
Just two major of 6,000 other than gas, products that depend on fossil fuels.
Products made from petroleum | Ranken Energy Corporation
One 42-gallon barrel of oil creates 19.4 gallons of gasoline. The rest (over half) is used to make things like:
Solvents Diesel fuel Motor Oil Bearing Grease Ink Floor Wax Ballpoint Pens Football CleatsUpholstery Sweaters Boats Insecticides Bicycle Tires Sports Car Bodies Nail Polish Fishing lures Dresses Tires Golf Bags Perfumes Cassettes Dishwasher parts Tool Boxes Shoe Polish Motorcycle Helmet Caulking Petroleum Jelly Transparent Tape CD Player Faucet Washers Antiseptics Clothesline Curtains Food Preservatives Basketballs Soap Vitamin Capsules Antihistamines Purses Shoes Dashboards Cortisone Deodorant Shoelace Aglets Putty Dyes Panty Hose Refrigerant Percolators Life Jackets Rubbing Alcohol Linings Skis TV Cabinets Shag Rugs Electrician’s Tape Tool Racks Car Battery Cases Epoxy Paint Mops Slacks Insect Repellent Oil Filters Umbrellas Yarn Fertilizers Hair Coloring Roofing Toilet Seats Fishing Rods Lipstick Denture Adhesive Linoleum Ice Cube Trays Synthetic Rubber Speakers Plastic Wood Electric Blankets Glycerin Tennis Rackets Rubber Cement Fishing Boots Dice Nylon Rope Candles Trash Bags House Paint Water Pipes Hand Lotion Roller Skates Surf Boards Shampoo Wheels Paint Rollers Shower Curtains Guitar Strings Luggage Aspirin Safety Glasses Antifreeze Football Helmets Awnings Eyeglasses Clothes Toothbrushes Ice Chests Footballs Combs CD’s & DVD’s Paint Brushes Detergents Vaporizers Balloons Sun Glasses Tents Heart Valves Crayons Parachutes Telephones Enamel Pillows Dishes Cameras Anesthetics Artificial Turf Artificial limbs Bandages Dentures Model Cars Folding Doors Hair Curlers Cold cream Movie film Contact lenses Drinking Cups Fan Belts Car Enamel Shaving Cream Ammonia Refrigerators Golf Balls Toothpaste Gasoline
View attachment 718189
So as a Jewish poet who lived in a Muslim country was asking for his death...just as you are asking for mankind to be destroyed by idiots
that don't seem to understand reality. Like Abu 'Afak you and your Evangelista's ilk are asking for mankind destruction.
As I pointed out above there is more to fossil fuels than just gasoline!
In my neighbor they are putting down asphalt to smooth out the crappy concrete and it will be a pleasure to drive on this new asphalt.
But the cost will more than double I predict due to Biden wanted to get rid of asphalt's use of oil which is over 1.312 billion barrels a year in oil is used?
Products made from petroleum | Ranken Energy Corporation
www.ranken-energy.com
Electricity Grids Can Handle Electric Vehicles Easily – They Just Need Proper Management
One of the most frequent concerns you will see from electric vehicle haters is that the electricity grid can’t possibly cope with all cars becoming EVs. However, they haven’t done the math properly. The grids in most developed nations will be just fine. Here’s how.
www.forbes.com
Forbes has some interesting figures. Not everyone charges at the same time though. Time will tell if national grids will cope.
healthmyths
Diamond Member
- Sep 19, 2011
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- #67
And not everyone HAS to charge at the same time though.Electricity Grids Can Handle Electric Vehicles Easily – They Just Need Proper Management
One of the most frequent concerns you will see from electric vehicle haters is that the electricity grid can’t possibly cope with all cars becoming EVs. However, they haven’t done the math properly. The grids in most developed nations will be just fine. Here’s how.
Forbes has some interesting figures. Not everyone charges at the same time though. Time will tell if national grids will cope.
This chart shows what happens when people charge just 5 days a week after get home from work.
And it isn't the cars but the EV trucks that take nearly 12 times the amount of kWh. Cars .346 kWh / mile Trucks 4.3 kWh.
In other words EV trucks will cause the most consumption.
NOTE: I created this chart after securing the data like 4.3 kWh/mile for trucks from Battery capacity and recharging needs for electric buses in city transit service (Journal Article) | DOE PAGES
Check me out
ReinyDays
Platinum Member
Which would you prefer... paying the above AND having your A/C your heating, your oven, your TV, yes even your computer working. All of those don't depend on gas... BUT electricity does and while you make a valid suggestion... I'd offer you that the FACTS are missing from your point. WHERE are your links, substantiating your claim?
Now for the FACTS:
EV vehicle costsElectric Cars vs Gas Cars Cost in Each State | Self Financial
The price of electric cars vs gas cars can be confusing. We’ve taken hundreds of data points to give you an accurate state-by-state comparison.www.self.inc
Gas vehicle costs
- The average annual cost to run an electric vehicle in the USA is $3,679
- When factoring in purchase cost, the average cost of an EV is $10,360 each year
My math education tells me the gas vehicle is cheaper overall...based on the experts and the link I provided.
- The average annual cost to run a gas vehicle in the USA is $4,336
- When factoring in purchase cost, the average cost of a gas vehicle is $8,691 each year
So tell where your statistics come from?
But in reality... do you really want just ONE source of power, i.e. electricity which is totally dependent on the availability
of electricity when the number of black outs has increased per these facts:
Blackouts have increased to from 2007, there were 76, in 2011, more than 300.”
Are Power Outages Becoming More Frequent? - Northside Power
Rarely, we’re ever able to predict the future, and yet, one thing we know with certainty is that power outages are going to become more and more frequent over time.
Tell me if The State of Jefferson a proposed U.S. state of southern Oregon and Northern California, would mandate EVs as Calif has IN spite of the realistic number that would you be ok with that?
Personally ... I get most of my electricity from Bonneville Power Administration ... a series of hydro-electric dams down the Columbia River, plus a fair good sized wind farm in the Gorge and there's still a few nukes perking away on Hanford ... gasoline in the only fossil fuel I use and I fill my tank once a month whether I need to or not ...
My statistic comes from you ... "... EV cars get .346 kWh per mile ..." ... yeah, sounded stupid to me too ... but thank you for establishing yourself as a bogus reference ...
State of Jefferson has renewables out the asshole ... as well as plenty of clean fresh drinking water ... what we don't have is workers, "help wanted" signs everyplace ... EVs serve a roll where electric rates are cheapest in the nation, as well as "carbon-neutral" electricity ... just it rains every day all day long and trees grow violently and tall ...
You're too goddam embarrassed to admit the shithole you live in ...
I forgot to add these costs to your EV supposedly savings...
Are you aware that when Biden said.."I want you to look into my eyes, I guarantee We Are Going To Get Rid of Fossil Fuels”...
Are you aware if Biden's guarantee occurs, riding fossil fuels which I assume you agree with tell me why won't the cost of the tires for your EV will increase...how much I can't say but here is the reason why:
According to the Rubber Manufacturers Association, it takes “approximately seven gallons” of oil to produce a single tire.
That translates to approximately 5 billion gallons of crude oil (note: at today's price of $2 the total cost to tire makers over $10 billion a year) utilized to make tires each year.
Over the last three years tire prices have increased an average of 70%. In other words a tire that was $100 at the beginning of 2009 is probably listed around $170 today.
How Oil Prices Impact Tire Pricing
As the price of oil and gas continues to soar, what does this mean to the tire industry? We explore the real issues...
Also indirectly the cost of driving on asphalt roads will increase again how much but because of this fact:
Or how about the FACT that your taxes used to construct asphalt roads will skyrocket because when Biden rids fossil fuels,
what will replace oil that in making asphalt, 1.312 billion barrels a year in oil is used?
Products made from petroleum | Ranken Energy Corporation
Just two major of 6,000 other than gas, products that depend on fossil fuels.
Products made from petroleum | Ranken Energy Corporation
One 42-gallon barrel of oil creates 19.4 gallons of gasoline. The rest (over half) is used to make things like:
Solvents Diesel fuel Motor Oil Bearing Grease Ink Floor Wax Ballpoint Pens Football CleatsUpholstery Sweaters Boats Insecticides Bicycle Tires Sports Car Bodies Nail Polish Fishing lures Dresses Tires Golf Bags Perfumes Cassettes Dishwasher parts Tool Boxes Shoe Polish Motorcycle Helmet Caulking Petroleum Jelly Transparent Tape CD Player Faucet Washers Antiseptics Clothesline Curtains Food Preservatives Basketballs Soap Vitamin Capsules Antihistamines Purses Shoes Dashboards Cortisone Deodorant Shoelace Aglets Putty Dyes Panty Hose Refrigerant Percolators Life Jackets Rubbing Alcohol Linings Skis TV Cabinets Shag Rugs Electrician’s Tape Tool Racks Car Battery Cases Epoxy Paint Mops Slacks Insect Repellent Oil Filters Umbrellas Yarn Fertilizers Hair Coloring Roofing Toilet Seats Fishing Rods Lipstick Denture Adhesive Linoleum Ice Cube Trays Synthetic Rubber Speakers Plastic Wood Electric Blankets Glycerin Tennis Rackets Rubber Cement Fishing Boots Dice Nylon Rope Candles Trash Bags House Paint Water Pipes Hand Lotion Roller Skates Surf Boards Shampoo Wheels Paint Rollers Shower Curtains Guitar Strings Luggage Aspirin Safety Glasses Antifreeze Football Helmets Awnings Eyeglasses Clothes Toothbrushes Ice Chests Footballs Combs CD’s & DVD’s Paint Brushes Detergents Vaporizers Balloons Sun Glasses Tents Heart Valves Crayons Parachutes Telephones Enamel Pillows Dishes Cameras Anesthetics Artificial Turf Artificial limbs Bandages Dentures Model Cars Folding Doors Hair Curlers Cold cream Movie film Contact lenses Drinking Cups Fan Belts Car Enamel Shaving Cream Ammonia Refrigerators Golf Balls Toothpaste Gasoline
View attachment 718189
98.2% of the world's sulphur comes from oil and gas refining. Sulphur is used for thousands of applications. The climate nut jobs need sulphur to vulcanize the rubber for their EV car tyres, and the vegans nut jobs need sulphur in the fertilizers to grow crops, yet both want to scrap/ban oil and gas. They're not very bright.
healthmyths
Diamond Member
- Sep 19, 2011
- 30,375
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- Thread starter
- #70
Well first of all YOU are the total idiot! Tell these people that they are wrong!
FACT: "EV cars get .346 kWh per mile"
Average Electric Car KWh Per Mile [Results From 231 EVs]
When working out the average cost of charging an electric car at home, I had to find the average electric car kWh per mile. But I couldn’t find a specific answer to this online, that referenced reliable sources. So I had to do the research, and here it is:
The average electric car kWh per 100 miles (kWh/100 mi) is 34.6. This works out as 0.346kWh per mile. In other words, on average, electric cars consume 34.6kWh to travel 100 miles and 0.346kWh to travel 1 mile.
2. Average Electric Car KWh Per Mile
On average, electric cars consume 34.6kWh per 100 miles (or 0.346kWh per mile).This is based on research of over 230 electric cars built between 2000 and 2022.
Get more details about my research into the average electric car kWh per mile, including the most and least efficient electric car
Average Electric Car kWh Per Mile [Results From 231 EVs]
Find the average electric car kWh per 100 miles, along with the best and the worst. Plus see the costs, savings and how you can go greener.
ecocostsavings.com
I don't know how to make it more clear! So when people read the sources versus your ignorance by having NOT one single substantiation who
is the shithole dweller! ZERO facts dummy!
abu afak
ALLAH SNACKBAR!
- Mar 3, 2006
- 8,129
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New Solar Capacity 10 Times Cheaper than Gas, says Rystad
Operating gas-fired power plants would be 10 times more expensive in the long-term than building new solar capacity in Europe, according to research from intelligence company Rystad. Their study uses the levelized cost of energy (LCOE) for gas and coal-fired power generation at different price levels and compares it to the LCOE of solar PV and wind.
OCTOBER 27, 2022
Cumulative cost of gas power generation vs potential new renewable energy capacity.
Image: Rystad Energy
Building new solar capacity in Europe could be 10 times cheaper than continuing to operate gas-fired power plants in the long-term, according to a new study by Norway-based research company Rystad Energy.
Europe has seen skyrocketing gas prices since the drop in Russian gas exports, with spot prices on the Netherlands-based Title Transfer Facility (TTF) rising to an average €134 ($135.15)/MWh so far this year. Rystad forecasts prices will stabilize at around €31 per MWh by 2030, which puts the LCOE of existing gas-fired plants closer to €150 per MWh.
“This is still three times more than the LCOE of new solar PV facilities. For gas-fired plants to continue being competitive, gas prices would need to fall closer to €17 per MWh and carbon prices would need to fall to €10 per tonne, which is currently unthinkable,” the company said in a statement.
[......]
New solar capacity 10 times cheaper than gas, says Rystad
Operating gas-fired power plants would be 10 times more expensive in the long-term than building new solar capacity in Europe, according to research from intelligence company Rystad. Their study uses the levelized cost of energy (LCOE) for gas and coal-fired power generation at different price...
www.pv-magazine.com
`
Last edited:
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
New Solar Capacity 10 Times Cheaper than Gas, says Rystad
Operating gas-fired power plants would be 10 times more expensive in the long-term than building new solar capacity in Europe, according to research from intelligence company Rystad. Their study uses the levelized cost of energy (LCOE) for gas and coal-fired power generation at different price levels and compares it to the LCOE of solar PV and wind.
OCTOBER 27, 2022
Cumulative cost of gas power generation vs potential new renewable energy capacity.
Image: Rystad Energy
Building new solar capacity in Europe could be 10 times cheaper than continuing to operate gas-fired power plants in the long-term, according to a new study by Norway-based research company Rystad Energy.
Europe has seen skyrocketing gas prices since the drop in Russian gas exports, with spot prices on the Netherlands-based Title Transfer Facility (TTF) rising to an average €134 ($135.15)/MWh so far this year. Rystad forecasts prices will stabilize at around €31 per MWh by 2030, which puts the LCOE of existing gas-fired plants closer to €150 per MWh.
“This is still three times more than the LCOE of new solar PV facilities. For gas-fired plants to continue being competitive, gas prices would need to fall closer to €17 per MWh and carbon prices would need to fall to €10 per tonne, which is currently unthinkable,” the company said in a statement.
[......]
New solar capacity 10 times cheaper than gas, says Rystad
Operating gas-fired power plants would be 10 times more expensive in the long-term than building new solar capacity in Europe, according to research from intelligence company Rystad. Their study uses the levelized cost of energy (LCOE) for gas and coal-fired power generation at different price...
`
Solar is the best and cheapest. Except at night. It sucks at night.
Almost as much as abu sucks.
Last edited:
ReinyDays
Platinum Member
Well first of all YOU are the total idiot! Tell these people that they are wrong!
FACT: "EV cars get .346 kWh per mile"
Average Electric Car KWh Per Mile [Results From 231 EVs]
When working out the average cost of charging an electric car at home, I had to find the average electric car kWh per mile. But I couldn’t find a specific answer to this online, that referenced reliable sources. So I had to do the research, and here it is:
The average electric car kWh per 100 miles (kWh/100 mi) is 34.6. This works out as 0.346kWh per mile. In other words, on average, electric cars consume 34.6kWh to travel 100 miles and 0.346kWh to travel 1 mile.
2. Average Electric Car KWh Per Mile
On average, electric cars consume 34.6kWh per 100 miles (or 0.346kWh per mile).
This is based on research of over 230 electric cars built between 2000 and 2022.
Get more details about my research into the average electric car kWh per mile, including the most and least efficient electric car
Average Electric Car kWh Per Mile [Results From 231 EVs]
Find the average electric car kWh per 100 miles, along with the best and the worst. Plus see the costs, savings and how you can go greener.
I don't know how to make it more clear! So when people read the sources versus your ignorance by having NOT one single substantiation who
is the shithole dweller! ZERO facts dummy!
Jesus ******* Christ ... you posted this ... in bold ... SEVEN goddam times ...
How much do you pay for electricity? ... this information should be on your parent's electric bill ... ask if you can see it, though you might have to take it in to your electric company to have them explain to you where to find this information ... my bill says 5.9¢/kW-hr, and that 20% comes from fossil fuels (I'm currently with a private company for electric service, they'll buy wholesale whatever makes them the most profit, so only 80% renewable) ...
I'm just mathing ... 0.346 kW-hr/mile x 5.9¢/kW-hr = 2¢ per mile ... which is better than $5.00/gal / 25 mpg = 20¢ per mile ...
According to the YOUR CLAIM that you posted in bold SEVEN TIMES ... EVs are a tenth the cost to keep fueled ... that's a good thing ... unless you're a shrill for Big Oil, which explains the all the statistics ...
When you copy/paste lies ... you become a liar ...
healthmyths
Diamond Member
- Sep 19, 2011
- 30,375
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- Thread starter
- #74
And you are a citizen of the State of Jefferson right?
State of Jefferson
www.ijpr.org
Jefferson is now in patriotic rebellion against the states of California and Oregon.
This State has seceded from California and Oregon this Thursday, November 27, 1941. Patriotic Jeffersonians intend to secede each Thursday until further notice.
For the next hundred miles as you drive along Highway 99, you are traveling parallel to the greatest copper belt in the far West, seventy-five miles west of here.
The United States government needs this vital mineral. But gross neglect by California and Oregon deprives us of necessary roads to bring out the copper ore.
If you don't believe this, drive down the Klamath River highway and see for yourself. Take your chains, shovel and dynamite.
Until California and Oregon build a road into the copper country, Jefferson, as a defense-minded State, will be forced to rebel each Thursday and act as a separate State.
State of Jefferson Citizens Committee / Temporary State Capital, Yreka
Mr Jewish martyr ...New Solar Capacity 10 Times Cheaper than Gas, says Rystad
Operating gas-fired power plants would be 10 times more expensive in the long-term than building new solar capacity in Europe, according to research from intelligence company Rystad. Their study uses the levelized cost of energy (LCOE) for gas and coal-fired power generation at different price levels and compares it to the LCOE of solar PV and wind.
OCTOBER 27, 2022
Cumulative cost of gas power generation vs potential new renewable energy capacity.
Image: Rystad Energy
Building new solar capacity in Europe could be 10 times cheaper than continuing to operate gas-fired power plants in the long-term, according to a new study by Norway-based research company Rystad Energy.
Europe has seen skyrocketing gas prices since the drop in Russian gas exports, with spot prices on the Netherlands-based Title Transfer Facility (TTF) rising to an average €134 ($135.15)/MWh so far this year. Rystad forecasts prices will stabilize at around €31 per MWh by 2030, which puts the LCOE of existing gas-fired plants closer to €150 per MWh.
“This is still three times more than the LCOE of new solar PV facilities. For gas-fired plants to continue being competitive, gas prices would need to fall closer to €17 per MWh and carbon prices would need to fall to €10 per tonne, which is currently unthinkable,” the company said in a statement.
[......]
New solar capacity 10 times cheaper than gas, says Rystad
Operating gas-fired power plants would be 10 times more expensive in the long-term than building new solar capacity in Europe, according to research from intelligence company Rystad. Their study uses the levelized cost of energy (LCOE) for gas and coal-fired power generation at different price...
`
A) Congratulations on providing the proof of your personal opinion.
B) The biggest problem though is your proof is for Europe... not the USA.
C) To replace all the fossil fuel electric generating plants of which there are today: 11,070 per the below of which 3,343 are fossil fuels.
D) So in the USA if your Evangelista POV has your way:
Cost of all solar panels to meet ALL EV cars/trucks $7,711,261,265,664 and for you that can't handle big numbers... $7.711 TRILLION!
Again to meet the DEMAND of EVs in the USA for electricity which would be 14,782,215,480,000 kWh from a system that provides today
Just 4,165,030,000,000 kWh.
Again just to be clear:
- Today the total output of 11,070 power plants in the USA is 4,165,030,000,000 kWh.
- To provide ALL cars/trucks electricity will require 14,782,215,480,000 kWh
- To provide the above additional kWh will cost if solar panels..$7,711,261,265,664
healthmyths
Diamond Member
- Sep 19, 2011
- 30,375
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- Thread starter
- #75
FIRST of all YOU are a frigging liar because you blame ME??? For copy/paste of WHAT LIES??? Prove the follow are LIES!
I don't disagree with your math! NO one would.
BUT he problem is dummies like you haven't seemed to understand to meet the DEMAND of EVs in the USA for electricity would be MORE THAN 14,782,215,480,000 kWh from a system that provides today Just 4,165,030,000,000 kWh.
It will also cost $7.711 TRILLION to $70 Trillion!
Where will that money come from if the power is from solar panels or wind turbines?
FACTS!!!
If it is WIND TURBINES meeting the 14,782,215,480,000 kWh it would cost:
- $70,176,069,218,221 to build and install
- 17,535,250 wind turbines to provide the
- 14.7 Trillion ADDITIONAL kWh!
- Today the total output of 11,070 power plants in the USA is 4,165,030,000,000 kWh.
- To provide ALL cars/trucks electricity will require an additional 14,782,215,480,000 kWh
- To provide the above additional kWh will cost if solar panels..$7,711,261,265,664
- Or if you think wind turbines is the answer... 22,475,973 turbines at a cost of $70.1 Trillion!
Where will the $7.7 trillion to $70.1 Trillion COME from to meet the 14,782,215,480,000 kWh demand?
Maybe you should add into the COST you calculated:
- Solar panels cost/by 123.6 million USA households /10 years --- $6,238/household/year!
- wind turbines cost/by 123.6 million USA households /10 years --- $ $56,776/household/year!
The typical wind turbine is 2-3 MW in power, so most turbines cost in the $2-4 million dollar range. Operation and maintenance runs an additional $42,000-$48,000 per year according to research on wind turbine operational cost.Aug 7, 2021
Wind Turbine Cost: Worth The Million-Dollar Price In 2022?
Multimillion dollar price tag? Huge wind turbine cost a good investment? Do they really pay for themselves in 2022? How much power do they produce? Answers here
weatherguardwind.com
abu afak
ALLAH SNACKBAR!
- Mar 3, 2006
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You keep putting up all the [wrong] details because you are short-sighted and ILLogical Goon trying to impress/Deceive with GIANT Numbers.And you are a citizen of the State of Jefferson right?
You are now entering Jefferson, the 49th State of the Union.State of Jefferson
Jefferson is now in patriotic rebellion against the states of California and Oregon.
This State has seceded from California and Oregon this Thursday, November 27, 1941. Patriotic Jeffersonians intend to secede each Thursday until further notice.
For the next hundred miles as you drive along Highway 99, you are traveling parallel to the greatest copper belt in the far West, seventy-five miles west of here.
The United States government needs this vital mineral. But gross neglect by California and Oregon deprives us of necessary roads to bring out the copper ore.
If you don't believe this, drive down the Klamath River highway and see for yourself. Take your chains, shovel and dynamite.
Until California and Oregon build a road into the copper country, Jefferson, as a defense-minded State, will be forced to rebel each Thursday and act as a separate State.
State of Jefferson Citizens Committee / Temporary State Capital, Yreka
Mr Jewish martyr ...
A) Congratulations on providing the proof of your personal opinion.
B) The biggest problem though is your proof is for Europe... not the USA.
C) To replace all the fossil fuel electric generating plants of which there are today: 11,070 per the below of which 3,343 are fossil fuels.
View attachment 718682
D) So in the USA if your Evangelista POV has your way:
Cost of all solar panels to meet ALL EV cars/trucks $7,711,261,265,664 and for you that can't handle big numbers... $7.711 TRILLION!
Again to meet the DEMAND of EVs in the USA for electricity which would be 14,782,215,480,000 kWh from a system that provides today
Just 4,165,030,000,000 kWh.
Again just to be clear:
View attachment 718690
- Today the total output of 11,070 power plants in the USA is 4,165,030,000,000 kWh.
- To provide ALL cars/trucks electricity will require 14,782,215,480,000 kWh
- To provide the above additional kWh will cost if solar panels..$7,711,261,265,664
That's why you keep trying to BURY People with your Big Charts instead of speaking English like a normal human.
Your charts/numbers are MEANINGLESS unless you put up the Comparable cost of NON-EV and NON-Renewable power plants.
DUH!
And NOT just Initial cost as Renewable Costs are Front-Loaded with NO ongoing 20 Years of Fo$$il Fuel you have to pay for.
So you need at least a 20+ Year Cost Comparison to make sense.
As I posted above which shows when the Cumulative cost line crosses.
Understand yet you SPAMMING @sshole?
See if you can answer in English without trying to Bury people with your meaningless BIG number BS!
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healthmyths
Diamond Member
- Sep 19, 2011
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But your cost comparisons were from Europe not the USA.
Secondly YOUR cost comparisons DID NOT cover wind turbine or solar panel costs... JUST EV costs... which I agree WITHOUT
adding the cost of electricity generated by 17,535,250 wind turbines at average cost per turbine of $4 million or $70 Trillion dollars
which if spread over the 123.6 million American households equal $56,776 a YEAR for 10 years... Who's paying that? Higher utility rates!
Or solar panels... at $7.7 Trillion divided by 123.6 million households equals over $500/month for 10 years ...again from higher rates!
AND you totally forgot that which is normal for ignorant EVangelistas... "Oh but it helps climate change" is your cry...
Explain something to me as a Climate change believer the following questions...
- Do you agree with this number? 36.4 billion tons of Co2 emitted in 2021 .
- Annual CO2 emissions worldwide 1940-2020 | Statista
- Now do you agree with this number: 3.04 trillion trees in the entire world?
- How Many Trees Are in the World? By Country, Type, Year (Updated 2022)
- Now do you agree with this number: 48 lbs of Co2 absorbed per tree.
- The Power of One Tree - The Very Air We Breathe
Total 3 trillion trees absorb 48 LBs /tree of Co2 or annually 72 billion tons of Co2 BUT
the global emissions is 36.4 billion ..... What is the problem?
I've asked this question several times of climatechangevanglistas like you and no one as answered... Inquiring minds want to know!
abu afak
ALLAH SNACKBAR!
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SO NO Comparing to Costs/Ongoing costs of Fossil Fuels vs Renewable OVER LIFE of Plant.
and NO Comparison to the cost and availability of miles to drive on the two alternatives over life of Car/EV.
(No one else even argues against the fact that over time the higher EV cost is made up buy cheaper fueling)
Obviously those numbers are Wrong! It had stayed at app 280 for a long time before we raised it up.
LOFL.
AND (FYI) CO2 is NOT the only GHG. Seems you have another Loose screw.
DOH!
Methane is up 2.5x and it is 80x as powerful as CO2.
And Methane snowballs as it warms: more is released from melting Tundra and Ocean floor.
Warming also snowballs by putting more Water Vapor (a huge GHG) in the air.
You're an OCD numbers almanac/BS artist with -0- Common sense.
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healthmyths
Diamond Member
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- #79
Argue with the IEA ok because that's where the numbers come from.
Global energy-related carbon dioxide emissions rose by 6% in 2021 to 36.3 billion tonnes, their highest ever level, as the world economy rebounded strongly from the Covid-19 crisis and relied heavily on coal to power that growth, according to new IEA analysis released today.https://www.iea.org/news/global-co2-emissions-rebounded-to-their-highest-level-in-history-in-2021
So you stupidly still haven't answered the question 3 trillion trees absorb 72 billion tons of Co2... so what's the problem?
Oh one other question for you ...
how did we get 3,000 to 9,000 Co2 PPM 500 million years ago? I don't think we had cars but I'm sure you think that!
A Graphical History of Atmospheric CO2 Levels Over Time
Atmospheric levels of CO2, the most abundant greenhouse gas, have varied widely over the course of the Earth’s 4.54 billion year history.
earth.org
abu afak
ALLAH SNACKBAR!
- Mar 3, 2006
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No, No ,
YOU haven't answered the question because despite all your Chart Barrages/ostensible numbers... you didn't understand:
1. That CO2 was going up, Not halving as your Emissions vs Trees numbers had dictated.
2. Which is all rather Astonishing..
because THEE #1 Fact in the AGW debate is CO2 rising from 280 to 420 in the Industrial revolution.
So YOU should have looked into it because it doesn't make sense according to YOUR numbers.
So you did NOT KNOW THERE WAS A RISING CO2 !eve! (or didn't think anyone else did), the #1 cited fact in the debate!!!
You are buried in your wittle cherry plicked figures.
Because the earth as Different place 500 (and 800) million years ago. Different atmosphere, radiation intake, whatever.how did we get 3,000 to 9,000 Co2 PPM 500 million years ago? I don't think we had cars but I'm sure you think that!
A Graphical History of Atmospheric CO2 Levels Over Time
Atmospheric levels of CO2, the most abundant greenhouse gas, have varied widely over the course of the Earth’s 4.54 billion year history.
Another piece of ILLogic!!!! Why would you go to the "earliest" time instead of the most recent time (before present warming)? One would want to get the most similar planetary conditions if one wanted to Judge if the last mere 150 years of the Industrial Revolution/GHGs was the cause for the Spike/AGW!!!
You have No Common Sense.
You are an undebatable Mr Magoo throwing charts and numbers around that Contradict the Facts as they ARE.
Go back to wherever you were hiding in your 11 year membership.
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