23 years later, Tiananmen Square

[Mr Natural]

They'll get a pass so long as they keep providing cheap labor to the corparatist scum of the world.

 

[Peach]

My art teacher was in Tiananmen Square when that went down. He talks about it quite often. The students wanted a confrontation, were itching for a fight and got more than they bargained for. He hid, then went to one of the guards and told them he wasn't part of the demonstration. They let him through and even let him call his girlfriend to tell her he was okay.

The students then in revolt really didn't have any support in the country. They were no different than our own OWS protesters, a bit cleaner perhaps.

You really believe that?

Great thread, now that China is "experimenting" with SMALL SCALE capitalism, I look for change within a generation.

 

[Katzndogz]

My art teacher was in Tiananmen Square when that went down. He talks about it quite often. The students wanted a confrontation, were itching for a fight and got more than they bargained for. He hid, then went to one of the guards and told them he wasn't part of the demonstration. They let him through and even let him call his girlfriend to tell her he was okay.

The students then in revolt really didn't have any support in the country. They were no different than our own OWS protesters, a bit cleaner perhaps.

You really believe that?

Great thread, now that China is "experimenting" with SMALL SCALE capitalism, I look for change within a generation.

Do I believe that the student led revolt had little support in the country? Is that the question? Of course! Student led revolts seldom have broad support in any country. They have little support in this country. The Chinese are not experimenting with capitalism, they are transitioning into capitalism. They are managing that transition. Just as our country is transitioning into communism. The difference between the US and China is that China already knows that communism doesn't work.

It isn't only my art teacher. The entire school is Chinese. Myself and one other man are the only non-Chinese there. They don't let in non-Chinese very often.

 

[Unkotare]

You have to understand that most of "the rest of the country" had no idea what was going on, as information is tightly controlled domestically. Non-participants in Beijing who were aware of what was happening were very supportive of the students, bringing them food and whatnot, until the real violence began (generations of brutal communist totalitarianism had taught them what happens next).

 

[Katzndogz]

How many people contributed to OWS shitting in the park? Were the goals of OWS supported by a majority of the country?

I have never been to China. What I know of China comes from those in my school who are all Chinese and my sister in law who is a Chinese National and her teen age daughter who just recently arrived. The Chinese find America far FAR more brutal than China. More so because the brutality comes directly from Americans who are supported in their brutality by the government rather than directly from the government itself. Yet, inexplicably punishes anyone who dares to defend themselves.

As an example, the recent protests that interfered with the individual's right to go to work or school unimpeded would never be tolerated in China. The protester's brutality against their fellow citizens is somehow protected by the government as a freedom to be brutal. Yet, it is well known that if someone was to fight back, it is they who would have been punished.


From what I have been learning about China, there isn't very much difference in the level of totalitarianism and oppression. Rather than directly from the government, our oppressive and totalitarian regime uses surrogates. Chna is becoming, incrementally, a more free country while we significantly less so.

 

[Unkotare]

I have never been to China. .

Yeah, I know. That's one reason why you keep making declarations as if you were certain of them that turn out to be false. The reason you feel the need to constantly repeat said declarations after you have been corrected is a problem you should take up with your shrink.

 

[Unkotare]

The Chinese find America far FAR more brutal than China. .

That statement is ridiculous on many levels.


1) The great majority of Chinese people have never set foot in America and therefore can't "find" it any particular way.

2) Saying things like 'The Chinese think this or that' is offensively illogical since it assumes that all Chinese people think alike simply by dint of their being Chinese. Basing such absurd claims on the very few Chinese people in your art school is even more illogical.

3) Claiming that the US is "more brutal" than the CCP is absurd and reflective of your deep ignorance of anything relating to this subject. Your admitted lack of any first-hand experience does not excuse such poor thinking. If you need to rely on that degree of hyperbole to make a point then it wasn't a good one to start with.

 

[Katzndogz]

I get my information from various people who have lived in China their entire lives. Why would I believe them over you? Because they know more than you do. The "proof" that what I have been told is false, only comes from you saying "Because I said so that's why".

If I hear something presented as a fact, by five or more different independent sources that don't agree with you, why would I believe you over five other individuals? Is there anything you can give me as a foundation on which to trust your opinion over others who were born and raised in China? Not just one, not just one city, or one region, but many individuals over a wide range of the nation.

 

[Unkotare]

You admit you have no personal experience to inform your views on the matter (or the several other matters you insist on going on about) but you are so eager to play the expert that you cling to your ignorance and illogic in the face of all reason.

Try reading my previous post.

 

[Unkotare]

Go ahead. Address any of the three points above.

 

[Katzndogz]

The Chinese find America far FAR more brutal than China. .

That statement is ridiculous on many levels.


1) The great majority of Chinese people have never set foot in America and therefore can't "find" it any particular way.

2) Saying things like 'The Chinese think this or that' is offensively illogical since it assumes that all Chinese people think alike simply by dint of their being Chinese. Basing such absurd claims on the very few Chinese people in your art school is even more illogical.

3) Claiming that the US is "more brutal" than the CCP is absurd and reflective of your deep ignorance of anything relating to this subject. Your admitted lack of any first-hand experience does not excuse such poor thinking. If you need to rely on that degree of hyperbole to make a point then it wasn't a good one to start with.

I agree, the vast majority of Chinese people have never been to America. For those that have, their opinon of this country is not so good. I don't blame you for being embarassed for the shameful state of the United States to the point where you want to ignore it. I am.

 

[Unkotare]

The Chinese find America far FAR more brutal than China. .

That statement is ridiculous on many levels.


1) The great majority of Chinese people have never set foot in America and therefore can't "find" it any particular way.

2) Saying things like 'The Chinese think this or that' is offensively illogical since it assumes that all Chinese people think alike simply by dint of their being Chinese. Basing such absurd claims on the very few Chinese people in your art school is even more illogical.

3) Claiming that the US is "more brutal" than the CCP is absurd and reflective of your deep ignorance of anything relating to this subject. Your admitted lack of any first-hand experience does not excuse such poor thinking. If you need to rely on that degree of hyperbole to make a point then it wasn't a good one to start with.

I agree, the vast majority of Chinese people have never been to America. For those that have, their opinon of this country is not so good. .

So you admit your statement was illogical? Good. Now, of all the people of Chinese descent who are living in or have ever been to America, what percentage of them have you ever spoken to about this subject? Considerably less than 0.5%? Certainly. Now it's time to admit that your statement above was also illogical. Go ahead.

 

[Unkotare]

This is starting to remind me of your 'college is free in China, and students there never drink or have sex' nonsense, or the more recent 'Japanese men don't like women' nonsense. You seem to have a need to play the expert despite your ignorance on a number of subjects. You should work on that.

 

[Katzndogz]

This is starting to remind me of your 'college is free in China, and students there never drink or have sex' nonsense, or the more recent 'Japanese men don't like women' nonsense. You seem to have a need to play the expert despite your ignorance on a number of subjects. You should work on that.

This is the vacation effect, like the I'm Feeling Richer effect.

I once went to China and I know more about it than the people who lived there all their lives syndrome.

 

[Katzndogz]

Give me a reason to believe you, who I do not know, over the dozens and dozens of people I personally know and see every day. Give me a reason to believe you instead of my sister in law or my niece. A real reason, not that you visited one time and know more than they do, a real reason.

 

[Unkotare]

This is starting to remind me of your 'college is free in China, and students there never drink or have sex' nonsense, or the more recent 'Japanese men don't like women' nonsense. You seem to have a need to play the expert despite your ignorance on a number of subjects. You should work on that.

This is the vacation effect, like the I'm Feeling Richer effect.

I once went to China and I know more about it than the people who lived there all their lives syndrome.

Your insistence on ignorance and illogic is remarkable. At least try to think about it for a minute.

 

[Unkotare]

Give me a reason to believe you, who I do not know, over the dozens and dozens of people I personally know and see every day. Give me a reason to believe you instead of my sister in law or my niece. A real reason, not that you visited one time and know more than they do, a real reason.

Did you think it would go unnoticed that you are trying to use words like "visited" and "one time" to diminish what you KNOW you cannot dispute? Where will you go with that when I tell you I've been there several times and that I lived there for two years? And how does your "dozens of people" reasoning hold up when I tell you that I've discussed the things you guess at with thousands and thousands of people "who have lived there all their lives"? Even at that I would never presume to make declarations about what all Chinese people think the way you have tried to.

You need to think more carefully and learn to take correction better.

 

[Katzndogz]

I think you secretly want to spank me. You can't.

You lived in China for two years, well la di da, that sure beats a 50 year old who has lived there since birth.

Again, give me a reason. Living in China for two years doesn't cut it. Give me a good reason to believe you over anyone, and everyone else.

 

[Unkotare]

I think you secretly want to spank me. .

Sorry to disappoint you, but you'll have to go on paying for that wherever you have been.

 

[Unkotare]

Again, give me a reason.

I did. Read the post, fool.