2011 global temperature thread

[Mini 14]

Ah yes, them thar librul scientists are a bunch of pointy headed queers. And all us good rednecks don't need no damned science, we got Rush.

Sorry boys, flap yap at whatever extent you wish, in whatever language you wish. Will not change reality one whit. And the reality is a rapidly warming Arctic.

I love Science, Old Rocks.

ALWAYS have loved it.

It is one of the things that has proven to me the value of an open mind, and not assuming too much about anything.

Do you consider Benjamin Franklin a "scientist?"

 

[IanC]

Ah yes, them thar librul scientists are a bunch of pointy headed queers. And all us good rednecks don't need no damned science, we got Rush.

Sorry boys, flap yap at whatever extent you wish, in whatever language you wish. Will not change reality one whit. And the reality is a rapidly warming Arctic.

liberal and conservative concern politics not science

weather is not climate

it really is amazing how distorted your thinking is. bloggers arent funded by big oil, bad statistics arent good science, consensus doesnt trump data. you have a knack for picking out details when you should be looking at the big picture, and generalities when the details count.

 

[polarbear]

"Counter argument#1:
Well, biPolar, you know why English is the language the world over for air traffic control. You lost the bloody war.

#2
====>You are correct. Only been as far north as Yellowknife. And that was in '75. But I find it far more likely that trained scientists would be more accurate in their observations than an anonymous poster on an internet message board. And when you have scientists from all over the world, including the nations that border the Arctic reporting that the Arctic is warming, that leads me to believe said poster is full of shit.
#3
=====>You mean like the scientists that have spent years in the Arctic studying that region.
#4
=====>The research team was led by Eric Post, Penn State University, and included biologists, ecologists, geographers, botanists, anthropologists, and fish and wildlife experts

#1 - #4...Is that all You`ve got?...or were there some more that You deleted before I came back here?

OooohKay..let`s start with#1

You lost the bloody war.

I did not loose the war! Are You sure it`s over? Rumor has it a lot of us Nazis are still hiding in Canada and Brazil...You know..."The boys from Brazil"?

English is the language the world over for air traffic control.

A sticker for detail like You should know this: except in Quebec...
So, let me get this straight 'I" lost the war because "we" used Enigmas instead of plain English when we told our U-boat fleet to go right up the St.Laurence River and sink everything in sight...or off the coast of New York?
Enough of responding to Your cheap trolling jabs!
Let`s get to the meat of it:

You are correct. Only been as far north as Yellowknife.

So You think You have been in the arctic..
Yellowknife= Lat: 62.47N, Lon: 114.43W
The arctic circle starts at 66° 33′ 44″
So let`s see that would be 3 degrees + 46 minutes too far south or 3 X 60 +46= 226 miles south of the arctic and still inside what we call in Canada the "Banana belt" because You have not even left the tree line yet..

By the way I just checked the current temp in Yellowknife NWT:
Weather Yellowknife NT Weather Forecast - Find Local Weather

Yellowknife, Northwest Territories
Lat: 62.47N, Lon: 114.43W
Temp: -31°C

Now for this lame attempt....the old "credibility" smear:

be more accurate in their observations than an anonymous poster on an internet message board.

Let me get this straight...if I scan in all my credentials + my curriculum vitae and publish all that in an Internet forum for every credit card scam artist to see You are offering to shut up and crawl back under your anonymous rock?

Aside from the typical troll methods which started off topic with linking a war from the last century and is supposed to counter what I have confronted You with:

Climate of the Arctic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Another interesting use of models has been to use them, along with historical data, to produce a best estimate of the weather conditions over the entire globe during the last 50 years, filling in regions where no observations were made. These reanalysis datasets help compensate for the lack of observations over the Arctic

And since the rest of #1 to 4 is all the same:

You mean like the scientists that have spent years in the Arctic studying that region.
The research team was led by Eric Post, Penn State University, and included biologists, ecologists, geographers, botanists, anthropologists, and fish and wildlife experts....blah blah blah..

I`ld like to ask You this:
Don`t You think it`s a little embarrassment for this "science" that every one of these scientists apparently forgot to bring along a thermometer?

Because to this date all we have for isotherm lines in the arctic is one single line dating back to:

and this:

where these ***** have fabricated every point on this graph out of thin air:

produce a best estimate
help compensate for the lack of observations over the Arctic

For the past 50 years till present date !!!

I have been up there summers and winters and have NEVER seen any of these ridiculous "research teams" in the winter!

I guess it`s not that easy in the polar winters to snap a picture of "drowning polar bears" or grandstand in front of television cameras and tell a National Geographic Press team to photograph "soot from industrial pollution" on to of a glacier in Greenland,....like this "professor" You quoted in the ice melt panic thread in this forum

Except this guy from the Max Planck Institute:

and he never went outside in the winter except to sit in his truck and drive the walking distance to come over to us , to chow down with the rest of us:

So I think You best bet would be to continue trolling:

Well, biPolar, you know why English is the language the world over for air traffic control. You lost the bloody war.

because that`s all You are doing here...+ re-posting Your retarded links like a Tibetan prayer mill

 

[Mini 14]

I still would like to know if Old Rocks considers Ben Franklin a scientist or not.

 

[polarbear]

These "scientists" "Old Rocks" is mentioning are flocking every summer to the arctic like maggots because they finally found that out:
Seawater - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The freezing point of sea water decreases as salt concentration increases. At a typical salinity it freezes at about −2 °C (28.4 °F).[1] The coldest sea water ever recorded (in a liquid state) was in 2010, in a stream under an Antarctic glacier, and measured −2.6 °C (27 °F).[2]

Hoping they get good footage when a junk of ice slides into the open Nares strait....or a "drowning polarbear"

Ever noticed how they try to draw away all public attention form the antarctic lately?

http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/NZSP.html

24 Hour Summary

Time
EST (UTC) Temperature
F (C) Dew Point
F (C) Pressure
Inches (hPa) Wind
MPH Weather
Latest 5 PM (22) Jan 30 -13 (-25) 28.89 (978) NNE 13 light snow grains; mist
4 PM (21) Jan 30 -13 (-25) 28.89 (978) NE 16 light snow grains; blowing snow
3 PM (20) Jan 30 -11 (-24) 28.89 (978) NNE 20 light snow grains; blowing snow; mist
2 PM (19) Jan 30 -11 (-24) 28.9 (978) NNE 16 light snow grains; blowing snow; freezing fog
1 PM (18) Jan 30 -11 (-24) 28.89 (978) NNE 17 light snow grains; blowing snow
Noon (17) Jan 30 -11 (-24) 28.89 (978) NNE 17 light snow grains; blowing snow
11 AM (16) Jan 30 -11 (-24) 28.9 (978) NNE 18 snow grains; blowing snow
10 AM (15) Jan 30 -11 (-24) 28.9 (978) NNE 17 snow grains; blowing snow
9 AM (14) Jan 30 -11 (-24) 28.91 (979) NE 16 light snow grains; blowing snow
8 AM (13) No Data
7 AM (12) Jan 30 -11 (-24) 28.91 (979) N 24 light snow grains; blowing snow
6 AM (11) No Data
5 AM (10) No Data
4 AM (9) No Data
3 AM (8) No Data
2 AM (7) No Data
1 AM (6) Jan 30 -9 (-23) 28.9 (978) NNE 20 light snow grains; blowing snow
Midnight (5) No Data
11 PM (4) No Data
10 PM (3) No Data
9 PM (2) No Data
8 PM (1) No Data
7 PM (0) Jan 29 -14 (-26) 28.89 (978) NNE 16 ice crystals; blowing snow
Oldest 6 PM (23) No Data
Time
EST (UTC) Temperature
F(C) Dew Point
F(C) Pressure
Inches(hPa) Wind
(MPH) Weather

Weather in Antarctica - Antarctic Connection

Coldest Temp:
-129°F (-89°C) on July 21, 1983
Location: Vostok Station
Warmest Temp:
+59°F (+15°C) on Jan 5, 1974
Location: Vanda Station
Mean Temps:
Winter: -40 to -94°F (-40 to -70°C)
Summer: -5 to -31°F (-15 to -35°C)

And that`s the difference between the North Pole and the South Pole:

Why is Antarctica so Cold?
Several factors combine to making Antarctica one of the coldest and least hospitable places on the Earth:

* Unlike the Arctic region, Antarctica is a continent surrounded by an ocean which means that interior areas do not benefit from the moderating influence of water.
* With 98% of its area covered with snow and ice, the Antarctic continent reflects most of the sun's light rather than absorbing it.
* The extreme dryness of the air causes any heat that is radiated back into the atmosphere to be lost instead of being absorbed by the water vapor in the atmosphere.
* During the winter, the size of Antarctica doubles as the surrounding sea water freezes, effectively blocking heat transfer from the warmer surrounding ocean.
* Antarctica has a higher average elevation than any other continent on Earth which results in even colder temperatures.

So, what did You expect...of course they don`t send this herd of sacred cows Old Rocks keeps quoting there....sure as **** not while it`s winter down there

Am I the only one who noticed that all these **** estimate graphs wich go "hockey stick" are from the Northpole, where the same fuckheads don`t even record temperatures but publish this crap all over the internet and on TV..

produce a best estimate
help compensate for the lack of observations over the Arctic

Yet at the south Pole there is data recorded every hour every day, month and year:
http://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica%20fact%20file/antarctica%20environment/climate_graph/vostok_south_pole_mcmurdo.htm

And these con artists do everything they can to distract public attention from it...like a pick-pocket with a whore accomplice who lifts her mini-skirt while he reaches for your wallet.
Exception is when they can tell You that a chunk of ice has broken off...as if that had anything to do with "warming"...
That was discussed in the glacier melt thread here, what happens to ice, supercritical water & the triple point at the extreme pressures way down under ice layers that are this massive!




But I guess that would be unfair for any of us to call that "cherry picking"

 

[polarbear]

If you think Polar's posts are long, wait for Old Rocks to respond with his Epic Wall of Text. It will be off-topic, mind-numbing, and just generally wrong on several different levels. But one thing you can count on........it will be HUGE!!!!

But I have have to thank Polar for showing up.

A voice of reason among the religious AGW fanatics is quite refreshing!

(I've told them they should just go get laid, but they won't listen to me).

Polar.....thanks for what you do.....not just here on the board

Hey, I apologize for that, but I think You and everybody else has a right to these pictures.
National Geographic would never publish these even if I paid them to do it...

Like these tree stumps at Fort Conger:

Because these are not officially trees stumps until "Old Rock" comes up here and verifies that!


So, I came here `cause I thought a lot of farmers, ranchers, drill rig workers, and other Americans that have to drive to work every day should be able to see what is real and what is memorex concerning the arctic...
I wish one of You guys would go in my album and download + copy pictures and make bumper stickers, T-shirts or something!
Hey by all means do so and sell the T-shirts...I hope You can make a shitload of money!...be my guest...I don`t even want a Pizza slice!
Courtesy of polarbear a.k.a. "Dr.Destructo"...so now a lot of armed forces members who read this would know who wrote it!
And they would come to this forum right now and advise "Old Rock" to crawl back under his rock:

Because that`s how I got stuck with that nick name:

But I am trying my best to adjust to civilian life and haven`t done any of that....lately.
I even tried my best to shake my old nick name and did earn a new one with a less negative co-notation meanwhile, which is the one I personally prefer:

But then You get older, outgrow that and before You know it it`s back to the same old habits and the same routine:

I just can`t help it!

 

[Mini 14]

If you think Polar's posts are long, wait for Old Rocks to respond with his Epic Wall of Text. It will be off-topic, mind-numbing, and just generally wrong on several different levels. But one thing you can count on........it will be HUGE!!!!

But I have have to thank Polar for showing up.

A voice of reason among the religious AGW fanatics is quite refreshing!

(I've told them they should just go get laid, but they won't listen to me).

Polar.....thanks for what you do.....not just here on the board

Hey, I apologize for that, but I think You and everybody else has a right to these pictures.
National Geographic would never publish these even if I paid them to do it...
So, I came here `cause I thought a lot of farmers, ranchers, drill rig workers, and other Americans that have to drive to work every day should be able to see what is real and what is memorex concerning the arctic...
I wish one of You guys would go in my album and download + copy pictures and make bumper stickers or something!

No apologies necessary (I actually enjoy all the data, and maybe even more so, your insight).

And I admit, it is fun to watch a true Scientist taking a handful of neophytes to the woodshed, when all they have are their propagandized talking points and personal opinion.

They want so badly for it all to be true, but the numbers just aren't there. Yet I give them credit for remaining faithful to their religion, even in the absence of scientific proof.

Thanks again, and please, keep going

 

[polarbear]

If you think Polar's posts are long, wait for Old Rocks to respond with his Epic Wall of Text. It will be off-topic, mind-numbing, and just generally wrong on several different levels. But one thing you can count on........it will be HUGE!!!!

But I have have to thank Polar for showing up.

A voice of reason among the religious AGW fanatics is quite refreshing!

(I've told them they should just go get laid, but they won't listen to me).

Polar.....thanks for what you do.....not just here on the board

Hey, I apologize for that, but I think You and everybody else has a right to these pictures.
National Geographic would never publish these even if I paid them to do it...
So, I came here `cause I thought a lot of farmers, ranchers, drill rig workers, and other Americans that have to drive to work every day should be able to see what is real and what is memorex concerning the arctic...
I wish one of You guys would go in my album and download + copy pictures and make bumper stickers or something!

No apologies necessary (I actually enjoy all the data, and maybe even more so, your insight).

And I admit, it is fun to watch a true Scientist taking a handful of neophytes to the woodshed, when all they have are their propagandized talking points and personal opinion.

They want so badly for it all to be true, but the numbers just aren't there. Yet I give them credit for remaining faithful to their religion, even in the absence of scientific proof.

Thanks again, and please, keep going

Thank YOU!!!...but it is You guys that should take these assholes to the woodshed, because it is YOU guys who pay for our fuel we use up there...all we got is JP8 jet fuel, we get it from You @ SAC Thule with C-130`s. It takes 14 gallons to fly in one gallon.
And in the winter our crews risk their lives doing that:

And take a look at what the "climatologists" drive..:

8 miles per gallon.

But hey, to each his own, however in the arctic stupidity normally carries the death penalty with it...look at this how stupid "climatologists" can be:

They went to their lab and forgot to close the door to their generator shed...a storm kicked up and they called us because they were about to freeze to death! when their power went out...the entire shed was cram packed with snow and every circuit behind the control panel was toast!

So we fixed it while they sat in our quarters and ate steaks.

Then 2 weeks later we went over for a snap inspection, guess what we found:

We asked them why do You leave your door open again.????

Answer was ,,,,otherwise it gets too warm in there!


I mean just how retarded can people be?
They could have asked any of us to show them where the ventilation fan switch is!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I mean it, please download & copy the pics I uploaded and print T-shirts or bumper stickers or take them to Your local news paper<<<<<<

Better than that would be You guys e-mail them to R.Limbau...he`ll nuke these bastards with these!

 

[Old Rocks]

So we have someone that dislikes scientists, liberals, gays, native americans, and anybody else that is not Polar Bear trying to tell us that the Arctic is not warming.

And in the meantime we have scientists like these that warned us years ago about the present methane releases

http://earth.usc.edu/ftp/lund/BERIN...Eurasian Basin/Shakova and Semiletov 2007.pdf

Methane release and coastal environment in the
East Siberian Arctic shelf
N. Shakhova &#8270;, I. Semiletov

 

[polarbear]

So we have someone that dislikes scientists, liberals, gays, native americans, and anybody else that is not Polar Bear trying to tell us that the Arctic is not warming.

And in the meantime we have scientists like these that warned us years ago about the present methane releases

http://earth.usc.edu/ftp/lund/BERIN...Eurasian Basin/Shakova and Semiletov 2007.pdf

Methane release and coastal environment in the
East Siberian Arctic shelf
N. Shakhova &#8270;, I. Semiletov

Hey why be so modest don`t exclude Yourself!

Oh by the way my wife is a native American Lakota Sioux, and You know what else, they even made me a band member!
and that`s why I don`t have to pay 1 red cent fuel tax....I hope that twists Your guts...no, let me re-phrase that, You don`t have any.
Let`s try "a weed up Your ass"...
No that don`t work with Your sort either, cause You stick stuff there just for the enjoyment...
Aaah maybe a nervous breakdown and if You had a good sex change maybe You get Your periods prematurely

 

[polarbear]

So we have someone that dislikes scientists, liberals, gays, native americans, and anybody else that is not Polar Bear trying to tell us that the Arctic is not warming.

And in the meantime we have scientists like these that warned us years ago about the present methane releases

http://earth.usc.edu/ftp/lund/BERIN...Eurasian Basin/Shakova and Semiletov 2007.pdf

Methane release and coastal environment in the
East Siberian Arctic shelf
N. Shakhova &#8270;, I. Semiletov

Come on man, are You just playing or are You really that stupid.?
Because if You really are, then You better pray "Global Warming" is not happening!

Have You not noticed who is America`s the largest supplier of crude oil ?
Don`t wait for us to sign on to this man made GW bullshit,...we supply > 60 % of all Your oil. It does not come from where the likes of Al Gore is telling You, it comes from here:

and that does not yet even include crude that comes from our tar sands:

In Canada we wish "Global warming" was true because then we would not have to fight the ice like that:

because look at what is there:

Arctic oil reserves (in billions of barrels above) are largely under the ocean

Read it and weep:
BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | The Arctic's oil reserves mapped

So if all that ice is going to melt, as You keep warning us.....push will then surely come to shove who do You think is going to win?

Or that old club...?

New York may just look like that that after all:

If You switch to these toy electric cars, but it won`t be water us Canucks will flood You with!


You know what is going to happen to dope heads like You, if You are still too retarded to get the **** out of the way before it`s too late...?

So hey, I do wish there were something to this GW crap! because then assholes like You will be roadkill!

 

[polarbear]

And in the meantime we have scientists like these that warned us years ago about the present methane releases

http://earth.usc.edu/ftp/lund/BERIN...Eurasian Basin/Shakova and Semiletov 2007.pdf

Methane release and coastal environment in the
East Siberian Arctic shelf
N. Shakhova &#8270;, I. Semiletov

I did read that and I am not impressed.
Also in case You don`t know what comes our of Your asshole when You fart is mostly methane.
And there are a lot of assholes!
Sorry I take that back because i have vowed this is the new me and I do want to quit cussing!
It` just sooo hard not to when I constantly get the samo samo crap like that stuck into my face over and over again!


However I do admit that there is a group of scientists, which may indeed be on to something. It is a realistic assessment and I think even the toughest skeptics here in this forum could agree on that.
And true to my principles I will not sequester any facts:

http://askbernhard.9f.com/

Environment Science Council meeting
Alarming new facts are tabled at the recent council meeting
Things may get worse than expected as a stunning new development unfolds

Well that I could agree with, what about the rest of You guys here?

So here we had one panel of Scientists and here is what other Scientists have to say about man made GW.
But You won`t like it, because he is a German like I am.
However I can personally verify myself that this Scientist has been all over the same Country , Ellesmere Island and Greenland.
Could be You would say he is nor a "real scientist", but I`ll take my chances with the rest of the guys here in this forum who are a bit more open minded than You could possibly be, with Your little birdbrain.
I`ll start out like this because You insist on a curriculum vitae:
After that show us Your`s!
Andreas Münchow, Ph.D.
2000- Associate Professor Graduate College of Marine Studies, University of Delaware, Delaware
1994-2000 Assistant Professor Institute of Marine and Coastal Studies, Rutgers University, New Jersey
1992-1994 Postgraduate Researcher Center for Coastal Studies, Scripps Institution of Oceanography, California
1987-1992 Graduate Research Assistant University of Delaware, Delaware
1981-1982 Paramedic Rettungsdienst Nordfriesland, Germany

I know You will shoot him down because he started out as a paramedic cruising the North Atlantic risking his life in the most sour weather & storms saving people`s lives.
Np matter he is one of the Authorities on Glaciers and why they slide into the sea..I did learn a lot from this guy!

I`m sure he does not mind me posting his picture etc here.
Let`s cut to the chase, because Yeah my posts are quite long, but You can`t one-liner a subject like this.
This is his Graph for the same arctic where I spent my time, let`s see if I have been lying:

And here is his raw source data, as You can see it is a far cry of this pityful "climatologist crap" where they con the public "with a lack of information, a lack of data from the arctic"...and then make hoeckey stick graphs using thier "best estimates" and "computer models"
Here is the entire heap of data that we do have, but the "climatologists" will not even mention it..
it is day by day, almost hour by hour thermal imaging starting 2003 till this very day & hour: and that is what that graph above is based on:
here are the thermal images of Greenland and the ALWAYS ICE FREE Nares strait I mentioned all the time:
Nares Strait MODIS Brightness Temperature
http://muenchow.cms.udel.edu/Nares2003/Band31/
http://muenchow.cms.udel.edu/Nares2003/Band01/
2004 Nares Strait MODIS Imagery
2010 Nares Strait MODIS Imagery
You can chew Yourself through the entire set and compare 2003 with 2004,2005,2006,2007,2008,2009,20110, 2011, shit even to today, day by day, month by month sometimes even hour per hour :
Arctic, Coastal, and Physical Oceanography



And I am supposed to look at this idiotic graph "climatologists" are waving around and take that serious?

And the media are trying their best to twist his words:
CNN, CBS,NBC all had to take a number waiting to hear what he had to say when everybody freaked out because a junk of ice the size of Manhattan came out of the Nares strait:


The World Today - A chip off the cold block 09/08/2010

JENNIFER MACEY: So why has it broken off at this time?

ANDREAS MUENCHOW: Nobody really knows why it happened on Thursday but floating ice shelves or glaciers, it's natural that they break off.

JENNIFER MACEY: Is global warming or is climate change a factor?

ANDREAS MUENCHOW: Climate change is definitely a factor. I have no doubt in my mind about it but the question is about how much, and how precisely does that connection work?

And that's the part where I don't think we can really tell. And this specific glacier is being melted by how much heat the ocean is providing from below. This ice sheet is 200, 300, 400, 500 metres thick and it's floating on the ocean and the ocean underneath is relatively warm to melt it.

So you're melting this glacier from below, pretty much year round.

JENNIFER MACEY: So do we know that the ocean or the sea temperatures are warming in that region?

ANDREAS MUENCHOW: You see that's the trick, no we don't know and the reason that we don't know is because the first time that a person has actually measured temperatures in the ocean inside this fjord has been in 2003.

Now if you compare temperatures from 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, those were the four times that we were in there, um yeah, four data point, it goes up and it goes down. So on seven years of temperature record I cannot say if global warming is at work or not.

He knew that had absolutely nothing to do with "global warming" because he and some others could watch it break live on this satellite:
Crack in the Petermann Glacier : Image of the Day
here are 2 revealing still shots:

When it happened there was no question in anyone`s mind why that break happened...and after all Andreas Münchow is thee authority in this subject worldwide:

And this specific glacier is being melted by how much heat the ocean is providing from below. This ice sheet is 200, 300, 400, 500 metres thick and it's floating on the ocean and the ocean underneath is relatively warm to melt it.

At the glacier's terminus or end, huge slabs of ice are weakened and then broken by the action of the rising and falling tides. This process is called calving and results in an iceberg's birth.

That`s what I have tried to explain in the ice melt frea-kout thread in this very forum but assholes like "Old Rock" know all that better.
As if something like this could possibly be "melted off" a massive glacier by the sun,:

some people simply cannot comprehend that any structure can have structural failure because of it`s own weight...else we would not need a spaces shuttle we could just build a "high rise space skyscraper".
It should be possible using "climatology" and the physics "laws" they plug in!

Any way. I know that none of You have the software that can plot the trend using the thermal images we have so I`ll dump the raw data in numerical form in here...
sorry guys, that my posts are always so long...maybe I`ll wait and wont do the dump here till You guys explicitly ask for it.

Oh yeah Old Rocks, and Your 97% of assholes agree that the greenhouse gas comes out of assholes this is how we treat computer models...in REAL SCIENCE...:
http://www.natice.noaa.gov/pub/weekly/antarctic/2010/seasonal_outlooks/ross_sea/ross_sea_seasonal_outlook_2010-2011.pdf

Models
While there are no validated sea ice forecasting models developed that would indicate this sea ice edge recession calculation, the results of the in-house Helfrich Statistical Ross Sea Opening Model [2], are considered in determining the final results of this outlook. This is a linear regression model, assisting in indicating the recession of the Ross Sea ice edge and a navigable

. Model variables include September Antarctic Oscillation values, vernal winds velocities off the Ross Ice Shelf, cumulative air temperatures, strength of the vernal Ross Sea Low, and the mean amplitude of ice extent latitude in October. Since this tool is still under evaluation and has not undergone peer review, it is treated as only one tool within the overall assessment.

And here is another part of a radio interview...the audio transcript...and You know what when it aired that was chopped off by a commercial break:

Mr. BROECKER: Well, it was dumb luck, because it turns out that the record in Greenland was a very unusual record, and as we over the years got more and more records, the cycles that showed up so strongly in this Northern Greenland ice core didn't show up anywhere else.

See this is why EVERYBODY who is on station up there knew what kind of lies You are being told by "climatology" and the media:

Because it`s our job up there to maintain live satellite links, mostly for military purposes but also the ones where You can watch LIVE ALL THE TIME what goes on up there, shit even what happens in Your backyard!
As if that is thee tell all sat-snapshot like the internet, the "climatologists" and your "NASA (climatology)Scientists" tell you on the internet...
Man are You naive! here are a few root directory "soft-hacks":
Andreas has to be told "Mensch mach Deinen Laden dicht"...because it`s too easy with the server he uses to go and hack right into all his other data and wreck it.
Index of /Nares2010
Index of /Nares2003
Just to give You a rough idea with how many different bands and how thorough we do study with these satellites
So, yeah, Old Rocks, since I prefer do remain anonymous, is it better to hear the same thing what I was posting from someone who unlike me is allowed to go public, without risking jail divulging details about a restricted area?

See "Old Rock" this is where Mathew has left You in the dust
Long before I dumped this in here he realized something was rotten in Denmark, put his personal feelings aside and started investigating.
It takes a big man and a lot more brains than You have to do that...and I have the utmost respect for a person who can do that! ....
even if he comes back here and has a counter argument...at least it will be on scientific grounds and none of us skeptics here in this forum have any qualms with that!
But I know when he pours over this comprehensive data set he will conclude the same way this foremost and worldwide respected scientist concludes...yet with an open mind if valid proof to the contrary is produced...and that`s the way real science works!...
Not the crap You keep quoting over and over again.
Now all the other guys here can quote Andreas Münchow and the links to some real data over and over again, till You finally shut up!



P.S.: for all those who don`t speak German, the cussing Elefanten advice how to take action (wenn`s juckt hilft nur noch kratzen) loosely translates to if the (bullshit) starts itching scrape it off"...You guys would shorten that to "get a shovel"...Yes?
But at "Nichtnachdenken.de" we all promised to quit cussing!
"Nichtnachdenken=is a German joke for Government gobbledegook You are not allowed to question, but should believe without further independent scrutiny
it was the e-mail address where to send Your choice swear words...but as man made GW took off the response was too huge to continue!

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[IanC]

there is a huge difference between matthew and old rocks. matthew is looking for understanding and doesnt shy away from areas that are at odds with his beliefs and old rocks KNOWS the TRUTH and anyone who disagrees with him has corrupt intentions.

 

[polarbear]

there is a huge difference between matthew and old rocks. matthew is looking for understanding and doesnt shy away from areas that are at odds with his beliefs and old rocks KNOWS the TRUTH and anyone who disagrees with him has corrupt intentions.

I have to learn to shorten my postings, but the problem is that there is a huge amount of info that for some reason the press does not want to mention.
And I think it`s a shame when people like Westwall, skookerasbil, you IanC and first and foremost the likes of Mathews do not have access to such information.
Google is an oracle that can`t possibly sort out the mess man made GW propaganda has dumped into cyber space. But it will get You straight to want You want if You key in very specific search criteria.
Then, if You use the windows function...if You do use that OS the secondary search by pressing and holding [control] then press the letter [f] and entering a a second search term will get You straight to what You want to find out even in a mile of other text.

So if You Google using the term "ice berg alley" You can find out that this is where all the icebergs have always been coming from....the Greenland Glaciers.
Ever since one of them sank the Titanic these icebergs have been counted and monitored...with aerial recon after WW2. There were that many that posed a hazard that USAF tried to bomb these, but they are just too massive.
Back then visual spotting was the only way and as RADAR improved it was easier to find almost every iceberg coming from the Greenland "melting" glaciers down "iceberg alley" and into the open ocean.

Where do North Atlantic icebergs come from? &mdash; Infoplease.com

The principal origin of those icebergs that reach the North Atlantic Ocean are the 100 or so major tidewater glaciers of West Greenland. Between 10,000 to 15,000 icebergs are calved each year, primarily from 20 major glaciers between the Jacobshaven and Humboldt Glaciers.

And they got this straight form this main source:
Icebergs of The Arctic and Antarctic
So when You are on this web page do that windows [control]f then paste this secondary phrase in the pop up below: Current positions
and it will lead You to the latest up to date info how many icebergs came down "ice berg alley" and what their current position is.
So man made GW tried to use the fact that RADAR could spot ever more icebergs as RADAR was improved since the crude WW2 RADARS to mislead the public that the Greenland Glaciers are "melting" at an ever faster pace...
Then well even Archimedes could do that they "calculated" this 5/100 th of an inch yearly rise in Ocean evel, because Yeah..eventually all these icebergs will dissolve and then they started publishing this kind of garbage...and Al Gore + the media ran with it:

So, I`m trying to make my posts shorter and easier to read and I`m pretty sure I can leave the rest up to You guys.
Welcome aboard Mathew!...why don`t You get into this stuff professionally...You do have what it takes!

 

[polarbear]

just a word of caution..when You click on the videos the coast guard public relations speaker talks about increasing temps+melt water going down the cracks and so on...we do know in the meantime that these cracks don`t go down far enough for "melt water" to do this...also we do know that there will be "melt water" from the mechanical pressure of the weight of these massive ice layers.
ice has a larger specific volume and water has the highest density at 4 deg Celsius,....so it will under high pressure try to achieve this state ....and that is the "triple point" and the super critical water under these ice sheets...was all discussed in the ice melt panic thread in this forum.
No matter which public service You work in, today You have to toe the politically correct line, especially a pr spokesman!...so take his comments with a grain of salt...we call these guys "talking heads"...they just read from the script!
He is singing from that same old song sheet, the "climatologists" national anthem, the hockey stick temperature song:

with slightly changed lyrics from the wikipedia original like a con artist who got caught lying to the cops, that`s what they said first:

to produce a best estimate
help compensate for the lack of observations over the Arctic

That`s how easy it is to find it:
copy this line:
help compensate for the lack of observations over the Arctic then add ONLY with Google the term 1 space +wikipedia
Then when You are there press [control]f
and paste in the pop up belwo again the words: help compensate for the lack of observations over the Arctic
and You have it!
also go back to the post in the "ice melt" thread and see what NASA showed on the SAT picture...the tops of the Greenland Glaciers have actually grown!
http://www.usmessageboard.com/environment/151792-new-melt-record-for-greenland-ice-sheet-exceptional-season-stretched-up-to-50-days-2.html

1.) Look at the color coded scale...notice something?
Look at the color scale for an INCREASE !
2.) If he was an "expert" he should have noticed where the highest decrease is!
That`s where You have the STEEPEST terrain gradients in all of Greenland, nowhere else does it drop off that steep and that long...

and last not least don`t forget what we also know about the Nares strait water temperatures THEY HAVE NOT CHANGED AT ALL BUT WERE ALWAYS AT THE SAME TEMPERATURE...and ships could go into that open water way back in the 18 hundreds...like HMS Discovery had!...she was not an ice breaker...
So please don`t do a "nichtnachdenken" but use You own brains and don`t ride piggy back on the PR spokesman!
Because he is not an expert who is qualified to make these conclusions...this man is:

and he come to an entirely different conclusion!

Than the coastguard Pr guy!..well You all know that already...
Nares Strait MODIS Brightness Temperature
http://muenchow.cms.udel.edu/Nares2003/Band31/
http://muenchow.cms.udel.edu/Nares2003/Band01/
2004 Nares Strait MODIS Imagery
2010 Nares Strait MODIS Imagery

Now if you compare temperatures from 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, those were the four times that we were in there, um yeah, four data point, it goes up and it goes down. So on seven years of temperature record I cannot say if global warming is at work or not.

But don`t let me do the same thing the Coast Guard PR guy is doing!...You know know where to find the data, study it and draw your own conclusions!
Bu please do watch the videos, especially the ones about Polar bears...You will see they quite different from Al Gore`s "drowning bear" version!
and thicker ice does not make their survival easier!....quite the opposite is true. Polar bear watching was our favorite past time up there...they eat rather well when the ice breaks up.
http://www.solcomhouse.com/polarbears.htm

 

[polarbear]

Climatologists are flocking each summer to southern Greenland and part of the Nares strait in a desperate last ditch effort to uphold the assertion that a CO2 increase of a few parts per million can calve Glaciers. They have chosen to prove this in a polar area where the sea water is the warmest and try tell You that "melt water" from the top seeps all the way down the ice sheet "lubricates the ice down there" and then huge chunks of ice break off and flood New York soon, if we don`t throw the keys to our cars in their collection baskets.

Meanwhile the process of glacier calving is no different in the antarctic..they have sensationalized each time a huge junk of ice calved and attributed that to CO2 GW..

Lets look at what real scientists have to say how calving works:
Iceberg Drift Research | The Department of the Geophysical Sciences | The University of Chicago | The University of Chicago

This was the "Laboratory":

And this was the equipment:

During the 4-season effort (extended to 6-seasons, because 2 prior field seasons were supported by a related SGER project), 8 automatic weather stations (AWS) equipped with specialized sensors useful in understanding iceberg drift, melting and break-up (e.g., global positioning system (GPS) receivers, thermistor strings to measure firn temperature, solar flux pyranometers, etc.) were deployed

The study also included iceberg drifts, which is off this subject, we just want to know what this group of scientists have found out about the process of ice sheet calving..

First lets get this silly assertion out of the way, that melt water from the top goes down a crack all the way to the bottom and "melts" the ice way down there...one look at this graph will clearly show how silly this assertion is:

E. Iceberg Firn Temperature Analysis. Analysis of the firn temperature/depth profile on iceberg C16 is an ongoing process (and will continue as long as data is transmitted from C16). Initial results involve the application of inverse methods to the analysis of temperature data as a means of determining basic thermal parameters needed in future analysis.

Both methods are tested on temperature records from thermistor strings operating in the upper 2.5 meters of firn on iceberg C16 (Ross Sea, Antarctica) from 2004 to 2007. Results of the analysis show promise in identifying melting events and the movement and refreezing of melt water within the snow/firn layer.

Now that this man man CO2 GW glacier melt-water ice sheet destruction has been dealt with, we can move on and see what "melts" the ice and breaks off huge junks that are hysterically reported in the media, along with the flooded New York images...+ maybe a few interviews and opinions added by "climatologists"...but certainly none of the scientists that knew why it did break off:

Iceberg and Ice-Shelf Response to Sea Swell and distantly sourced Tsunamis. In addition to the study of IHT (above), the seismic data collected on icebergs C16 and B15A, and Nascent Iceberg (on the Ross Ice Shelf) revealed the extent to which large floating ice masses respond to ocean swell and to earthquake generated tsunamis. Two tsunamis were recorded by the seismometers in late December of 2004. One was associated with the Sumatra Earthquake (Magnitude 9.3 on 26 December, 2004), the other was associated with a smaller, less publicized earthquake occurring near the Macquarie Islands (23 December, 2004). Equally striking is the fact that sea swell generated by storms in the Pacific, Indian and Southern oceans excites the strongest and most persistent motions of the icebergs and ice shelves in the frequency band below about 0.1 Hz.

Ninety three such swell events are identified in the seismometer record, 83 were identified with specific swell producing storms through comparison with NOAA Wave Watch III wave model analysis.

and this is what how it impacts the ice:

Main conclusion:

Ice Shelf response to ocean tide and tidal variations in ice stream inflow. Kelly Brunt created the first numerical model of an ice shelf's response to ocean tide. This model also investigated the sensitivity of ice-shelf flow to the tidal modulation of ice-stream input. The work formed the basis of her PhD thesis, which was successfully defended in Spring of 2008.

And that`s the way REAL SCIENCE WORKS

If You read what climatologists post in the internet and report to the news media, it`s no wonder so many people have the impression that Greenland glaciers are "melting" and are being changed into water which runs into the arctic ocean...
But that is not really happening to as a great extent as they are telling the media...here are some pics from up there which I uploaded into the forum album here:

See the ice slides being pushed downhill by force of gravity into the sea and then calves......and the forces behind the calving process are the same as on the south pole..!
Climatologists of course pick the best spots in Greenland which are the steepest downhill gradients and thee most MASSIVE ice layers with THEE MOST MASSIVE PUSH- force behind it to uphold their CO2 ice melting assertions.
Sorry that I show something from a previous post here again, but I do think this will be a "myth buster"

This was when that Manhattan sized junk calved off Petermann`s...
and these are the words the media tried to stuff into Andreas Münchow`s mouth why it calved off:
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2010/s2977528.htm

JENNIFER MACEY: So why has it broken off at this time?
JENNIFER MACEY: Is global warming or is climate change a factor?
JENNIFER MACEY: So do we know that the ocean or the sea temperatures are warming in that region?

See it`s the same problem as trying to disillusion believers in para-physics that supernatural forces were not at play when a "crop circle" appeared in a wheat field.

I hope this was not one of these boring long posts, but helped explain Ice calving the way it really works.
If someone can prove that the laws of physics are different north of the equator, then I have to go back to school.

 

[westwall]

to be a civilian and to quit cussing...
but when I came south and see nothing but this in the media, that does not help:

Because in the arctic, this is the only place where You might see a Polarbear like this in the summer time, and that would be in that Nares straight between Ellesmere and Greenland.:

And that is always open water and always has been...even when they arrived here:

That is THE ONLY place where You migth see a polarbear like that.

But they don`t drown!...

and there is A LOT of ice all around as and it stays! This is a look just a little to the left at the same day and time as we snapped that picture: in the middle of summer

This is also in the summer on Ellesmere Island,,,else THERE WOULD BE NO SUN..:

And on our side Nares straight looks like this in the summer:

And that melt is not from the "heat" but because that water is always "warm".
For FFFFFFFhshh sake how can these bastards con this many people, I thought at least the people that gave Al Gore the Nobel Prize would know:
Seawater - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The freezing point of sea water decreases as salt concentration increases. At a typical salinity it freezes at about &#8722;2 °C (28.4 °F).[1] The coldest sea water ever recorded (in a liquid state) was in 2010, in a stream under an Antarctic glacier, and measured &#8722;2.6 °C (27 °F).[2]

The rest of Ellesmere Island right next to Greenland looks except where there is no drift snow pretty much like this ALL SUMMER LONG:

And even to this day "climatologists" do not collect daily temperature data about Canada`s vast arctic area, but simply took a wild guess what these might have been for the past 50 Years and tell You the arctic is warming up
And almost every newspaper and 97% of the "experts" echo that like a parrot!

My God what the hell are they photographing up there, they must do that somewhere way down south near an Iqaluit dump in the middle of July!
Because the arctic looks like this all summer long:

And they show crap like this to the public in the United States; without even measuring a single day in the past 50 years to this date what the temperatures actually are:
PlanetBye: In The Arctic

Arctic Temperature

"observed temperatures" while in fact they have not observed anything:
Climate of the Arctic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Another interesting use of models has been to use them, along with historical data, to produce a best estimate of the weather conditions over the entire globe during the last 50 years, filling in regions where no observations were made. These reanalysis datasets help compensate for the lack of observations over the Arctic

to con them with their "calculated average arctic temperature" into the same gas prices at the pump as in Germany, whose "climate chancellor" Angela Merkel has been twisting the arm of every U.S. President since she has been in Office to sign on to her bullshit "Greenhouse Gas Legislation"...all the while bankers are already salivating over the distinct possibility they get a world trade with the "Carbon credits" which would dwarf the NASDAC,+ the DAX + the FTSE + the NIKKEi and the HANG SENG all lumped as one.

And at the same time I am trying to quit swearing at people who tell me they know what`s going on in the arctic...because of the bullshit in the internet which is the same bullshit as in the newspapers and on TV:
OSU study: Arctic warming could be worse than thought | KVAL CBS 13 - News, Weather and Sports - Eugene, OR - Eugene, Oregon | Local & Regional News

OSU study: Arctic warming could be worse than thought
CORVALLIS, Ore. – A new analysis of the Northern Hemisphere’s “albedo feedback” over a 30-year period concludes that the region’s loss of reflectivity due to snow and sea ice decline is more than double what state-of-the-art climate models estimate.

and stick it in my face
it`s not easy to quit calling people who believe this crap some choice names after they drew first blood in that department.... I tell You!
I think I`ll go to back my roots for a while coming summer vacation and see if my uncle there left me one of those in his will and start shooting:

Yeah "OldRock" now You have yet one more witty "come back" the next time You show up in this thread!
But careful, I might just get a fix on Your coordinates!

Sieg Heil!
Just kidding, all I vant is peace, a little piece of Russia and a little piece of Poland
Und dann ist alles in (Welt)-Ordnung! Alles klar jetzt, Lieber?

That's a picture of Gustav I am not familiar with. Where is it from?

 

[westwall]

You mean like the scientists that have spent years in the Arctic studying that region.

Oh, you mean the ones who keep falsifying the data? Those guys?

 

[polarbear]

You mean like the scientists that have spent years in the Arctic studying that region.

Oh, you mean the ones who keep falsifying the data? Those guys?
+=====>That's a picture of Gustav I am not familiar with. Where is it from?

I got Gustav from here:
gustav railroad gun - Google Search

set Google from web to images in advanced mode search for: Gustav railroad gun
and You have a lovely collection of Gustav at his birthday party..
I got mine second line, 1 from the left.

I just came back here to post this picture..which shows what kind of priorities the press has. Left= "crop circles"...+ how many people looked into that subject after the media hype and to the right is what You get for "ice sheet calving -warming -CO2"...or "glacier calving -warming -CO2".....SILCH-ZERO-DOES-NOT- EVEN-EXIST!!!

except if You exclude "Lifestyles" and so on and ONLY look into "science" then You get a few measly numbers.

But if You just enter "glacier melt"..."Ice sheet melt" then the media goes to the roof almost but not quite as good as the "crop circles"...
which I think tells a lot how that "science" makes its case:

and if You enter "glacier +warming" it goes super nova:

Categories: Lifestyles (25-50%), Local (0-10%), Travel (0-10%), Science (0-10%) more... , Entertainment (0-10%), Industries (0-10%)

Try it out with this Google tool:
Google Tendances des recherches

They call it Google insight for search...and if You log into Your Google account You get the numbers with the graph + which newspaper or media hyped it the most!...it is an eye opener!
So no one, not even a single newspaper cares to know how chunks of ice the size of Manhattan break off the ice shelf...unless they can link that to CO2...
how it really works...well that interview I quoted is the template!,....don`t You think?

P.S. One of Gustav`s cousins is in a war museum in the U.S. I have no idea how that G.I. brought a souvenir that size home????!!!
http://crazylinkz.blogspot.com/2007/02/worlds-most-impressive-gun.html

Worlds most impressive gun

Schwerer Gustav and Dora were the names under which the German(world war 2) 80 cm K railway guns were known. They were developed in the late 1930s by Krupp in order tSchwerer Gustav and Dorao destroy large, heavily fortified targets.Krupp built a test model in late 1939 and sent it to the Hillersleben firing range for testing. Penetration was tested on this occasion. Firing almost vertically, the gun was able to penetrate the specified 7 meters of concrete and 1 meter of armour plate.The ammunition for the gun consisted of a heavy concrete-piercing shell and a lighter higSchwerer Gustav and Dorah-explosive shell. A super-long-range rocket projectile was also planned with a range of 150 km that would require the barrel being extended to 84 m. This rocket projectile would have enabled the bombardment of England.

that`s 21 feet of concrete or 3 feet of solid steel penetrations, plus You could send "parcel post" UPS to England.
Uuuuh I love this kind of shit!