2011 global temperature thread

[polarbear]

About SHG...:

Everyone who is a parent here has at one time or another pushed a swing which his or her child enjoyed riding.
And they have surely noticed that You don`t have to "pump" the swing at every oscillation.
At 1/2 the number of Oscillations per time, that will do just fine...and that is EXACTLY how SHG works.
whatever is around the "pumped up" CO2 "tuning fork" will be very very happy at exactly twice the wavelength...
So the tiny child where the parent "pumps" the swing could give another swing with a much heavier weight a tiny little
kick every second time it gets over there...and pretty soon You have the equivalent of a huge battering ram swinging
sky high...!
Just this Mathew..:
Don`t start building something where the FBI will come knocking on Your door!

I just want to sit here, read what You will write here and put my coffee cup down, reach for the mouse and click on the "Thank You" button..
I don`t want to read in this forum how the "chemistry set" got bigger than all of us here!

 

[IanC]

polarbear- I think you may have misinterpreted my traffic example. much like traffic wants to get through a community by any means possible, heat wants to escape by any means or any wavelength possible. my question really is whether the CO2 molecule re-emits energy in the shoulder areas or by some other blackbody radiation that is not favourably reabsorbed by other CO2 molecules, and therefore easily escapes. even if the rate of transposing into less absorbable photons is small, it only has to happen once or twice to escape.

my concern is that there is not a comprehensive understanding of all radiation being lost to space because of oversimplified models.

 

[polarbear]

polarbear- I think you may have misinterpreted my traffic example. much like traffic wants to get through a community by any means possible, heat wants to escape by any means or any wavelength possible. my question really is whether the CO2 molecule re-emits energy in the shoulder areas or by some other blackbody radiation that is not favourably reabsorbed by other CO2 molecules, and therefore easily escapes. even if the rate of transposing into less absorbable photons is small, it only has to happen once or twice to escape.

my concern is that there is not a comprehensive understanding of all radiation being lost to space because of oversimplified models.

No, Your traffic example was perfect, my answer to it should have been shorter and the gist of it got lost...short answer, after several repetitions ALL of the re-emitted energy is at a lower frequency as the wavelength where CO2 absorbed it, and that includes the shoulders Dr,Heinz Hug showed in his spectrogram.
and now I take the liberty and use Your own words, because I see You have already figured it out Yourself:

and therefore easily escapes.

This guy here was essentially saying the same thing how I answered You, but he did it way more cryptic than I inadvertently have been:
Second harmonic generation of TEA CO2 lasers with high output power for lidar systems | Publications: SPIE

The pulse repetition rate satisfies condition of the 'frozen' atmosphere and the energy is sufficiently large for working on topographic targets that are 10 km off using both CO2 laser emission and its SH (the conversion efficiency is from 5 to tens of percent).

I highlighted the answer You were looking for, that`s about the numbers for how much is re-radiated at 2 times the wavelength than where CO2 absorbs IR.
The other 90 to 95% where the CO2 scissor/stretch/torsion "tuning fork tone"still stays the same does not get very far and then it will succumb to the same conversion to a lower frequency and radiate out without being able to absorbed again by any CO2 it encounters.
See he can do his 5 to 10% SHG frequency conversion already within:

pulse duration (tau) equals 50 ns, pulse repetition rate f equals 1000 Hz, pulse power E equals 50 mJ.

And this guy is only interested in THAT frequency...he wants to wipe out tanks and buildings, that`s why...all the other lower frequency that is emitted is just so much junk to him!

 

[polarbear]

Jeees...I can`t even type 3 words and either the phone rings, or there is a knock on the door or one of the kids tap me on the shoulder...
I am sure if You bring this up the first thing Your opponents will throw into Your face is...Oh yeah but even though it`s at a longer wavelength, it`s still heat and the atmosphere that it will pass through will still be heated..WRONG...
all other gasses have a much lower molecular weight than CO2 (12+32) and the other ones are 28 and 32...so even when You want to go all the way down to "Brown`s" Oscillations You are OUT OF tune with these as well!
That`s just the way things are...EVERYTHING that is at a higher potential energy state will try and find an energy valley....after all, that`s why the electrons that where pumped up say in the UV range around an Atom will fall back and dump the energy they just absorbed again...
With the bond vibrations in the IR wavelength...no difference, with the higher energy state of a shorter wave wanting to become a longer wave...no difference
The only time when that process does not happen is when a wave like that travels through the near vacuum of outer space!

 

[polarbear]

See here we just went again...where are the car keys, asked my wife!..
And I was just wanting to type this...the lower You go in infrared the more transparent things get!
For example there is Infrared night gear where You can make out a target in total darkness, but You would not see very well through cloud,....yet there is Infrared gear, that look right through a cloud as if it did not even exist.
Your fog lights on Your car...same thing...longer wavelength ...shine much better through the fog.
RADAR, same thing, at a higher frequency You can make out a bird, but can`t see through the ground...lower the frequency enough and You have Ground penetrating RADAR and can see a bunker under 20 feet of dirt.
And that`s the way the IR energy that hit us eventually radiates out back into Space...else all the planets around our sun would have reached the melting point millions of years ago...we should have been first if one applies the statements climatologists make...because of our atmosphere which as they say prevents this outward radiation.
Surely they will not go so far and try tell us that Nitrogen and Oxygen don`t absorb Infrared...they do!
An Oxygen Molecule has the same torsion/scissoring/- bond stretching vibrations as CO2 has, so does a Nitrogen Molecule,...so does a water molecule...they just do it at a different wavelength, that`s all!
Man made GW doctrine has it these other infrared absorbing gasses don`t exist when discussing incoming infrared...but they sure as F@&< exist all over sudden in their computer model for the outbound infrared!

 

[polarbear]

Iqaluit, NU
Current Weather Updated: Sat, Jan. 29, 2011, 22:00 EST - Iqaluit Airport
-34 °C
[/quote]

Weather Forecast: Churchill, Manitoba - The Weather Network

Churchill, MB
-32 °C
* Feels Like: -47
* Wind: W 26km/h
* Wind gusts: 39km/h
# Visibility: 24.0 km
# Ceiling: unlimited
* Sunrise: 8:30
* Sunset: 16:29
* Relative Humidity: 67%

Weather Forecast: Thompson, Manitoba - The Weather Network

Thompson, MB
Current Weather Updated: Sat, Jan. 29, 2011, 20:00 CST - Thompson Airport
-30 °C
* Feels Like: -40
* Wind: NW 11km/h
* Sunrise: 8:31
* Sunset: 16:58
* Relative Humidity: 61%
* Pressure: 103.79 kPa
* Visibility: 24.0 km
* Ceiling: unlimited

CBC News - Manitoba - Winnipeg to spend $4.5M digging out of storm

Winnipeg to spend $4.5M digging out of storm
Last Updated: Friday, January 28, 2011 | 5:47 PM CST
CBC News

Weather Forecast: Winnipeg, Manitoba - The Weather Network

Winnipeg, MB
Updated: Sat, Jan. 29, 2011, 21:00 CST - Winnipeg Airport
-21 °C

* Relative Humidity: 70%
* Feels Like: -33
* Wind: N 26km/h
# Pressure: 103.29 kPa
# Visibility: 24.0 km
# Ceiling: 7600 ft
* Sunrise: 8:06
* Sunset: 17:18

New York Weather Forecast and Conditions

New York Weather

Updated: Jan 29, 2011, 10:25pm EST
31°F

forecast:
Tomorrow

36°F

http://www.weather.com/weather/today/Munich+Germany+GMXX0087?from=search_city

Munich, Germany Weather
Updated: Jan 30, 2011, 3am Local Time
14°F

http://www.weather.com/weather/today/Moscow+Russia+RSXX0063

Moscow, Russia Weather

Updated: Jan 30, 2011, 6:30am Local Time
23°F

http://weather.ca.msn.com/local.aspx?&wealocations=wc%3A33287&q=Thule%2C+GRL&setunit=C

Thule, GRL

-25°C

And the strangest thing is that even in Canada there is not a single weather station that records daily Temperatures in the arctic.
So where do these averages come from?

If You Google it with U.S. or the Canadian Google all You get is this for the ENTIRE ARCTIC REGION:
http://www.oceandots.com/arctic/canada/ellesmere.php

Ellesmere Island

* Terra MODIS
* 13 August 2005
* 00:55 UTC

The third largest and the most northerly of Canada's Arctic islands, Ellesmere Island lies at the northeastern edge of the Queen Elizabeth Islands group, located in the high Arctic zone some 800 km south from the geographic North Pole.

The island lies off the northwestern coast of Greenland (at top-right in the above image), from which it is separated by the lengthy Nares Strait.

Nope, I did a thorough check, They use the Iqaluit weather Station as a "Barometer" for the ENTIRE CANADIAN ARCTIC REGION...it is the ONLY one that does daily reports!

And that`s the way it`s been for 50 Years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_the_Arctic

Another interesting use of models has been to use them, along with historical data, to produce a best estimate of the weather conditions over the entire globe during the last 50 years, filling in regions where no observations were made.[B] These reanalysis datasets help compensate for the lack of observations over the Arctic[/B]

And that`s how You make hockey sticks:

(same Wiki URL
The models, though imperfect, often provide valuable insight into climate-related questions

I mean why not, Ice hockey is a national sport in Canada,....so why not make temperature trend graphs in the same shape.

and also on the same Wiki page:

. Average January temperatures range from about &#8722;40 to 0 °C (&#8722;40 to +32 °F), and winter temperatures can drop below &#8722;50 °C (&#8722;58 °F) over large parts of the Arctic. Average July temperatures range from about &#8722;10 to +10 °C (14 to 50 °F), with some land areas occasionally exceeding 30 °C (86 °F) in summer.

The Arctic consists of ocean that is largely surrounded by land. As such, the climate of much of the Arctic is moderated by the ocean water, which can never have a temperature below &#8722;2 °C (28 °F). In winter, this relatively warm water, even though covered by the polar ice pack, keeps the North Pole from being the coldest place in the Northern Hemisphere, and it is also part of the reason that Antarctica is so much colder than the Arctic. In summer, the presence of the near-by water keeps coastal areas from warming as much as they might otherwise.

But no mention of any of that, + that the temperatures in THE ENTIRE ARCTIC REGION for the past 50 Years came from a "climatologist computer model" and not actual measurements...and to boot they are still doing it the same way today

And here is what Old Rock stuck into my face in the ice melt panic thread here:
http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/anderson/story/43733/hudson-bay-region-still-waiting-for-winter.asp

I just went back there and the last time they looked at temperatures there was:

Hudson Bay Region Still Waiting for Winter
Dec 30, 2010; 5:41 PM ET

Much of northeastern Canada is still waiting for winter to set in, and the latest projections continue to show more abnormal warmth across the region into early January.

And the Hudson Bay, that`s where Churchill Manitoba is...scroll up on this post and tell me if they are still sweating today!
Churchill, MB
-32 °C

But they tell us WE go cherry picking?

 

[polarbear]

I am trying to be civilized
But I have been up there for a looooong time and I know how much colder it is on Ellesmere Island than it is just across the channel from us in Greenland...
we go there almost every weekend just to warm up and go to that nice bar they have on SAC Thule to live it up a little...

After that You don`t freeze as much on Ellesmere, and were it not for the hangover it would be half ass O.K.

..........and look at the difference on this Satellite photo:

That just goes to show, that the amount of ice you see has NOTHING to do with "average temperature" but EVERYTHING with what traps the drift snow that gets blown in with the wind.
From this perspective You might think You could go skinny dipping on Ellesmere.

 

[polarbear]

to be a civilian and to quit cussing...
but when I came south and see nothing but this in the media, that does not help:

Because in the arctic, this is the only place where You might see a Polarbear like this in the summer time, and that would be in that Nares straight between Ellesmere and Greenland.:

And that is always open water and always has been...even when they arrived here:

That is THE ONLY place where You migth see a polarbear like that.

But they don`t drown!...

and there is A LOT of ice all around as and it stays! This is a look just a little to the left at the same day and time as we snapped that picture: in the middle of summer

This is also in the summer on Ellesmere Island,,,else THERE WOULD BE NO SUN..:

And on our side Nares straight looks like this in the summer:

And that melt is not from the "heat" but because that water is always "warm".
For FFFFFFFhshh sake how can these bastards con this many people, I thought at least the people that gave Al Gore the Nobel Prize would know:
Seawater - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The freezing point of sea water decreases as salt concentration increases. At a typical salinity it freezes at about &#8722;2 °C (28.4 °F).[1] The coldest sea water ever recorded (in a liquid state) was in 2010, in a stream under an Antarctic glacier, and measured &#8722;2.6 °C (27 °F).[2]

The rest of Ellesmere Island right next to Greenland looks except where there is no drift snow pretty much like this ALL SUMMER LONG:

And even to this day "climatologists" do not collect daily temperature data about Canada`s vast arctic area, but simply took a wild guess what these might have been for the past 50 Years and tell You the arctic is warming up
And almost every newspaper and 97% of the "experts" echo that like a parrot!

My God what the hell are they photographing up there, they must do that somewhere way down south near an Iqaluit dump in the middle of July!
Because the arctic looks like this all summer long:

And they show crap like this to the public in the United States; without even measuring a single day in the past 50 years to this date what the temperatures actually are:
PlanetBye: In The Arctic

Arctic Temperature

"observed temperatures" while in fact they have not observed anything:
Climate of the Arctic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Another interesting use of models has been to use them, along with historical data, to produce a best estimate of the weather conditions over the entire globe during the last 50 years, filling in regions where no observations were made. These reanalysis datasets help compensate for the lack of observations over the Arctic

to con them with their "calculated average arctic temperature" into the same gas prices at the pump as in Germany, whose "climate chancellor" Angela Merkel has been twisting the arm of every U.S. President since she has been in Office to sign on to her bullshit "Greenhouse Gas Legislation"...all the while bankers are already salivating over the distinct possibility they get a world trade with the "Carbon credits" which would dwarf the NASDAC,+ the DAX + the FTSE + the NIKKEi and the HANG SENG all lumped as one.

And at the same time I am trying to quit swearing at people who tell me they know what`s going on in the arctic...because of the bullshit in the internet which is the same bullshit as in the newspapers and on TV:
OSU study: Arctic warming could be worse than thought | KVAL CBS 13 - News, Weather and Sports - Eugene, OR - Eugene, Oregon | Local & Regional News

OSU study: Arctic warming could be worse than thought
CORVALLIS, Ore. &#8211; A new analysis of the Northern Hemisphere&#8217;s &#8220;albedo feedback&#8221; over a 30-year period concludes that the region&#8217;s loss of reflectivity due to snow and sea ice decline is more than double what state-of-the-art climate models estimate.

and stick it in my face
it`s not easy to quit calling people who believe this crap some choice names after they drew first blood in that department.... I tell You!
I think I`ll go to back my roots for a while coming summer vacation and see if my uncle there left me one of those in his will and start shooting:

Yeah "OldRock" now You have yet one more witty "come back" the next time You show up in this thread!
But careful, I might just get a fix on Your coordinates!

Sieg Heil!
Just kidding, all I vant is peace, a little piece of Russia and a little piece of Poland
Und dann ist alles in (Welt)-Ordnung! Alles klar jetzt, Lieber?

 

[skookerasbil]

LAUGH...MY...BALLS...OFF

On the lousiest weekend in sports Polar scores two hat tricks!!!! Talk about total and utter decimation of the FAITHERS lame BS.

I want to see the k00ks response to this.........particularly Old Rocks, who you know is going to post up one of his bookmarked religious links he's posted up 1,000 times before.

I cant wait to check in here later s0ns....................

 

[Mini 14]

If you think Polar's posts are long, wait for Old Rocks to respond with his Epic Wall of Text. It will be off-topic, mind-numbing, and just generally wrong on several different levels. But one thing you can count on........it will be HUGE!!!!

But I have have to thank Polar for showing up.

A voice of reason among the religious AGW fanatics is quite refreshing!

(I've told them they should just go get laid, but they won't listen to me).

Polar.....thanks for what you do.....not just here on the board

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, biPolar, you know why English is the language the world over for air traffic control. You lost the bloody war.

It is very nice that you posted an article from the OSU. However, here are a number of people from places rather closer to the problem.
Scientists review how global warming affects Arctic climate change

The research team was led by Eric Post, Penn State University, and included biologists, ecologists, geographers, botanists, anthropologists, and fish and wildlife experts from the University of Alberta and the Canadian Wildlife Service in Canada; Aarhus University and the University of Copenhagen in Denmark; the University of Helsinki in Finland; the Arctic Ecology Research Group in France; the Greenland Institute of Natural Resources in Greenland; the University Centre on Svalbard, the University of Tromsø, and the Centre for Saami Studies in Norway; the University of Aberdeen and the University of Stirling in Scotland; Lund University and the Abisko Scientific Research Station in Sweden; the University of Sheffield in the UK; and the Institute of Arctic Biology and the U.S. Geological Survey at the University of Alaska Fairbanks, the Environment and Natural Resources Institute (ENRI) of the University of Alaska Anchorage, and the University of Washington in the United States.

Support was provided by Aarhus University, The Danish Polar Center and the U.S. National Science Foundation. For more information: Jeffrey Welker, ENRI Director, at afjmw1@uaa.alaska.edu or (907)257-2701

Now I would have to say that these scientists are far more knowledgable than you are.

 

[Mini 14]

Cliff Notes on Old Rocks' response:

Old Rocks - never been there but knows exactly what its like.

polarbear - works and lives there but doesn't know what its like.

 

[Old Rocks]

You are correct. Only been as far north as Yellowknife. And that was in '75. But I find it far more likely that trained scientists would be more accurate in their observations than an anonymous poster on an internet message board. And when you have scientists from all over the world, including the nations that border the Arctic reporting that the Arctic is warming, that leads me to believe said poster is full of shit.

 

[Mini 14]

You are correct. Only been as far north as Yellowknife. And that was in '75. But I find it far more likely that trained scientists would be more accurate in their observations than an anonymous poster on an internet message board. And when you have scientists from all over the world, including the nations that border the Arctic reporting that the Arctic is warming, that leads me to believe said poster is full of shit.

Opinions are like assholes.....

EXPERIENCE is where its at!

 

[Old Rocks]

You mean like the scientists that have spent years in the Arctic studying that region.

 

[Mini 14]

You mean like the scientists that have spent years in the Arctic studying that region.

And the guys who are there now, and have been for a while.

Which are you?

Oh that's right....

You're an opinion.

 

[skookerasbil]

Mini.....he can write 40 pages........but heres the poop..........

Anybody coming into this forum with a curious mind is going to leave knowing two things after viewing the threads: 1) Theres alot they don't get in the mainstream media and 2) Those in lockstep with the religion have an agenda that goes far beyond the science.

And who do I have to thank for that? Ian, Polar, West et. al. who consitently blow holes in the warmer theories. I just stick around to add my exclamation points and bring the sobering news to the k00ks on where their politics stand. And thats the whole key to this forum is it not? The k00ks think we come in here to try to change their minds. Laugh my ass off...........we come in here to paint the picture for those who have only the conventional wisdom on AGW.......and have them leave as anti-k00k soldiers. THATS what brings us back...........watching the legends in their own minds like Rocks by made to look amatuerish by guy like Polar Bear.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ah yes, them thar librul scientists are a bunch of pointy headed queers. And all us good rednecks don't need no damned science, we got Rush.

Sorry boys, flap yap at whatever extent you wish, in whatever language you wish. Will not change reality one whit. And the reality is a rapidly warming Arctic.

 

[skookerasbil]

Greenland ice sheet is safer than scientists previously thought | Environment | The Guardian




Oooooooooops!!!!!



What is it about the far left.........stuck in 2005!!!

 

[skookerasbil]

Britons going cold on global warming: Number of climate change sceptics doubles in four years

By Steve Doughty
Last updated at 9:00 AM on 28th January 2011

Comments (386) Add to My Stories The number of climate change sceptics has almost doubled in four years, official research showed yesterday.
A quarter of Britons are unconvinced that the world is warming following successive freezing winters and a series of scandals over the credibility of climate science.
The figures suggest that a growing proportion of the public do not share the belief of all three major political parties and Whitehall – that climate change is a major and urgent challenge requiring radical and expensive policies.


Read more: Climate change sceptics double in 4 years as Britain goes cold on global warming | Mail Online

Climate change sceptics double in 4 years as Britain goes cold on global warming | Mail Online