2009 Budget deficit to be largest ever

[Charles_Main]

multi trillion? source for that very high estimate? his campaign puts it at $65 billion

As I have said in other threads, the Idea that a universal health care system in this country would only cost 65 Billion is ludicrs and Laughable. I predict the real costs will be well over 1 trillion dollars a year. It is simple mathmatics. Take a look at how much health care proceedures, and treatments cost, then think of 40 to 300 million people getting them on the Government dime.

I have no figures to back this up, however I believe I am right, and will be proven so.

 

[jreeves]

multi trillion? source for that very high estimate? his campaign puts it at $65 billion

Medicare spending is growing steadily in both absolute terms and as a percentage of the federal budget. Total Medicare spending reached $440 billion for fiscal year 2007, or 16 percent of all federal spending.

Medicare (United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Together, state and federal governments are expected to spend nearly $330 billion on Medicaid in 2005.

Medicaid - Cost and complexity tax reform efforts


Spending on these two healthcare entitlements excluding everbody else(in two different years) 770 billion dollars. Spread out over a 4 year period, just to cover the same amount of people on Medicare and Medicaid the program would cost over 3 trillion dollars....

 

[jreeves]

you missed the point again. you clearly dont understand ""

clinton used fuzzy math to show a surplus which wasnt really there, but bush is unable to do even that

I am not saying that Bush doesn't have much larger deficits than Clinton. My point is if you say Bush turned Clinton budget surpluses into budget deficits you are factually not correct. Which is afterall, what he stated.

 

[busara]

Medicare spending is growing steadily in both absolute terms and as a percentage of the federal budget. Total Medicare spending reached $440 billion for fiscal year 2007, or 16 percent of all federal spending.

Medicare (United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Together, state and federal governments are expected to spend nearly $330 billion on Medicaid in 2005.

Medicaid - Cost and complexity tax reform efforts


Spending on these two healthcare entitlements excluding everbody else(in two different years) 770 billion dollars. Spread out over a 4 year period, just to cover the same amount of people on Medicare and Medicaid the program would cost over 3 trillion dollars....

so youre including the already existing programs of medicare and medicaid in your cost for obama's plan? even though they will exist whether he is elected or not.

do you not see anything wrong with that? it is mislabeling

 

[jreeves]

so youre including the already existing programs of medicare and medicaid in your cost for obama's plan? even though they will exist whether he is elected or not.

do you not see anything wrong with that? it is mislabeling

No, if the government is to go from providing healthcare to the poor and the elderly to providing healthcare to everybody. It seems to me my figure would be a low estimate.

 

[Charles_Main]

no, If The Government Is To Go From Providing Healthcare To The Poor And The Elderly To Providing Healthcare To Everybody. It Seems To Me My Figure Would Be A Low Estimate.

A Very Low Estimate.

 

[sealybobo]

BS...Clinton's last budget had a deficit exceeding 90 billion dollars.

what's that compared to bush? I think if bush could claim a surplus, he would.

let me know and of course provide links.

 

[busara]

No, if the government is to go from providing healthcare to the poor and the elderly to providing healthcare to everybody. It seems to me my figure would be a low estimate.

now tell me, is that what obama's plan calls for?

even if it was, it doesnt change the fact that that money would be spent on healthcare anyway. so you need to look at how much EXTRA it would cost, and all you have to go on for that is your opinion. maybe youre right, maybe not. but unless you are someone extremely familiar with his plan and the healthcare and insurance industry as a whole, i dont think your opinion on this counts for much.

no offense

 

[RetiredGySgt]

now tell me, is that what obama's plan calls for?

even if it was, it doesnt change the fact that that money would be spent on healthcare anyway. so you need to look at how much EXTRA it would cost, and all you have to go on for that is your opinion. maybe youre right, maybe not. but unless you are someone extremely familiar with his plan and the healthcare and insurance industry as a whole, i dont think your opinion on this counts for much.

no offense

Lets play with numbers. How much of the population is on Medicare? How much on Medicaid? Knowing those numbers and knowing that Medicaid pays less then Medicare we can postulate what the cost of a Medicare like program for the entire country, including 20 million illegal Aliens might cost. That would give you a ball park figure. Then knowing the current programs increase every year by about 10 percent we can again postulate what it will cost for the next 3 years and on into the future.

If it were like Medicare the cost would be HUGE, if like Medicaid, possibly a little less since they pay some of the expense and have a lot less available to them.

What we can NOT factor in is the increased cost of MORE people now using the system because they CAN. Going in for things they did not before because of cost, etc etc. But we can reasonably assume that WILL occur and must be paid for in some manner.

Further once the Government runs health care THEY will be sued along with the Doctors and hospitals for malpractice, which will require a further expenditure for Insurance. And a cost in paying out to winners in these law suits.

I strongly suspect less than half the population is on the 2 current programs and we KNOW they cost 770 Billion, assuming adding the rest of us would cost at least another trillion is hardly a stretch at all.

 

[jreeves]

Lets play with numbers. How much of the population is on Medicare? How much on Medicaid? Knowing those numbers and knowing that Medicaid pays less then Medicare we can postulate what the cost of a Medicare like program for the entire country, including 20 million illegal Aliens might cost. That would give you a ball park figure. Then knowing the current programs increase every year by about 10 percent we can again postulate what it will cost for the next 3 years and on into the future.

If it were like Medicare the cost would be HUGE, if like Medicaid, possibly a little less since they pay some of the expense and have a lot less available to them.

What we can NOT factor in is the increased cost of MORE people now using the system because they CAN. Going in for things they did not before because of cost, etc etc. But we can reasonably assume that WILL occur and must be paid for in some manner.

Further once the Government runs health care THEY will be sued along with the Doctors and hospitals for malpractice, which will require a further expenditure for Insurance. And a cost in paying out to winners in these law suits.

I strongly suspect less than half the population is on the 2 current programs and we KNOW they cost 770 Billion, assuming adding the rest of us would cost at least another trillion is hardly a stretch at all.

Even the 770 Billion dollars a year is out of date now, the Medicaid numbers were from 2 years ago and the Medicare numbers were from last year.

 

[jreeves]

what's that compared to bush? I think if bush could claim a surplus, he would.

let me know and of course provide links.

Hey bobo...didn't I say Bush's deficits were a lot larger? Are you trying to argue with some delusional skitzo strawman? If so please don't quote my post, thank you.

 

[Chris]

Lets play with numbers. How much of the population is on Medicare? How much on Medicaid? Knowing those numbers and knowing that Medicaid pays less then Medicare we can postulate what the cost of a Medicare like program for the entire country, including 20 million illegal Aliens might cost. That would give you a ball park figure. Then knowing the current programs increase every year by about 10 percent we can again postulate what it will cost for the next 3 years and on into the future.

If it were like Medicare the cost would be HUGE, if like Medicaid, possibly a little less since they pay some of the expense and have a lot less available to them.

What we can NOT factor in is the increased cost of MORE people now using the system because they CAN. Going in for things they did not before because of cost, etc etc. But we can reasonably assume that WILL occur and must be paid for in some manner.

Further once the Government runs health care THEY will be sued along with the Doctors and hospitals for malpractice, which will require a further expenditure for Insurance. And a cost in paying out to winners in these law suits.

I strongly suspect less than half the population is on the 2 current programs and we KNOW they cost 770 Billion, assuming adding the rest of us would cost at least another trillion is hardly a stretch at all.

There are inherent cost savings in a single payer system. We pay twice per capita what other countries pay for healthcare and they cover everyone. Every Western country in the world has universal coverage except for us. Why? Because the corporate lobbyists control our government.

 

[jreeves]

There are inherent cost savings in a single payer system. We pay twice per capita what other countries pay for healthcare and they cover everyone. Every Western country in the world has universal coverage except for us. Why? Because the corporate lobbyists control our government.

What are these cost savings and how much off of the 3 trillion dollars would it save the government?

 

[Chris]

What are these cost savings and how much off of the 3 trillion dollars would it save the government?

I posted a link about the Canadian system that outlines some of these.

Google universal healthcare cost savings.

 

[jreeves]

I posted a link about the Canadian system that outlines some of these.

Google universal healthcare cost savings.

Oh come on now, are you going to make a claim without providing links to prove your claim?

 

[Chris]

Oh come on now, are you going to make a claim without providing links to prove your claim?

I have posted numerous links.

Go back and read them.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Spot on.

In my lifetime the highest rate of taxes has plummetted from 90% to 35%.

That's nearly a 60% decrease in taxation for the superrich.

Now I was around very wealthy people back them and believe me they were were STILL plenty rich even paying that absurd rate (that how rich they really are , fans)

Meanwhile at roughtly the same time, the rate of social security taxation imposed the working classes had risen 1,500% (from 1% to about 15%) as the amount taken out for social secuity and medicade increased to deal with the democgraphics of an aging population.

So while the right complains about how social security and medicade cost the government so much, (even though they're really on different budgets coming from completely different revenue streams) the masters they are so slavishly loyal to, are NOT paying anywhere near the majority of that money.

It an accounting logic shell game, that sadly, far too many working class and professional class people can't find the pea under the shell.

Income and taxation disparity is wrecking this Republic, folks.

Remember now that Bill Gates pays the same amount as somone making maybe only $100,000 or so of THOSE SSI and medicade taxes which are the largest taxes that working people pay.

The rich are not paying for our social security and medicade folks, WE ARE.

What percentage of of SSI and medicade taxes do the superwealthy really pay? I doubt it's 10% of those taxes, folks.

Anyone actually know?

We can all quote how the superrich pay so much of FICA, but that is really the smallest part of taxes being paid by all Americans in total, I suspect.

Throw in sales taxes and local taxes, that the working and poor classes pay, and I'm betting the working classes are paying MOST of the taxes in this nation, while making a smaller amount (in aggregate) than the top 5% are making combined.

The taxation system is rigged for the benefit of the superwealthy.

Not you doctor, not your lawyer, and certainly not the guy selling you coffee in the 7-11, not anyone who WORKS for a living, but for the stupendously rich.

So what's your problem with Bill Gates? He represents what is possible in this tremendous system we have in this country. Bill Gate started out as a simple penniless teenager in working in his garage with a handful of other geeks to create a little operating system called DOS. This tiny little system made the PC possible. On top of that little system he then envisioned a graphical system called Windows.

From there we have the PC and everything that has sprouted from it. The PC is perhaps the single technological innovation that has allowed the entire Information Age take place. We basically owe a substantial amount of our thanks for our way of life to Bill Gates. Without him we have no PC, we have no Microsoft Office or its imitators, we have no Web Browsers we have no PC and we have no X-Box!

SO you begrudge the one man who has created a substantial increase in the quality of life the average human being in the past quarter century his due?

God Bless Bill Gates and every dollar the man has because without him we are still STUCK in the 1950's.

 

[jreeves]

I have posted numerous links.

Go back and read them.

Sure, this is becoming commonplace for you. Make baseless claims then you refuse to post proof of your claims? Without a link showing that the US government would in effect receive cost savings from a universal healthcare system, you are nothing more than a partisan hackjob....What post #, what thread can I look for these cost savings and how much money will the government save?

 

[Chris]

Sure, this is becoming commonplace for you. Make baseless claims then you refuse to post proof of your claims? Without a link showing that the US government would in effect receive cost savings from a universal healthcare system, you are nothing more than a partisan hackjob....What post #, what thread can I look for these cost savings and how much money will the government save?

How many links have I provided showing that every other Western country pays about half per capita what we do for healthcare and still covers everybody?

 

[Chris]

Sure, this is becoming commonplace for you. Make baseless claims then you refuse to post proof of your claims? Without a link showing that the US government would in effect receive cost savings from a universal healthcare system, you are nothing more than a partisan hackjob....What post #, what thread can I look for these cost savings and how much money will the government save?

Healthcare Costs and U.S. Competitiveness - Council on Foreign Relations