2009 Budget deficit to be largest ever

[jreeves]

Budget deficits are simply parameters of the economy?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Budget deficits are the result of the tax cut and spend policies of the Republican Party. Reagan and Bush are responsible for 90% of the National Debt.

ReaganBushDebt.org

You fail to recognize that Congress controls all spending....
Congress in both adminstrations were mainly responsible for the budget deficits.

Reagan's Congressional makeup--->Democratic
Bush's Congressional makeup for the most part----->Republican

 

[Chris]

You fail to recognize that Congress controls all spending....
Congress in both adminstrations were mainly responsible for the budget deficits.

Reagan's Congressional makeup--->Democratic
Bush's Congressional makeup for the most part----->Republican

The Reagan idea of tax cut and spend was even an issue in the 1980 Republican presidential primary campaign.

Reagan was running against George Bush Sr., and George Bush Sr. called Reagan's idea of tax cut and spend, "Voodoo economics."

How right you were, George.

 

[jreeves]

The Reagan idea of tax cut and spend was even an issue in the 1980 Republican presidential primary campaign.

Reagan was running against George Bush Sr., and George Bush Sr. called Reagan's idea of tax cut and spend, "Voodoo economics."

How right you were, George.

Haven't I already debunked this lie with Reagan's inaugural address...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzBNNgHp-sQ]YouTube - President Reagan - Government is the problem[/ame]

 

[Chris]

Haven't I already debunked this lie with Reagan's inaugural address...

YouTube - President Reagan - Government is the problem

Lying is not debunking. From Wiki....

The Reagan era was marked by cuts to social programs, and large-scale deficit spending on the military. Reaganomics had its roots in two of Reagan's campaign promises: lower taxes and a smaller government. Reagan reduced income tax rates, with the largest rate reductions on the highest incomes; in a time of battling inflation, Reagan raised deficit spending to its highest level (relative to GDP) since World War II.

 

[jreeves]

Lying is not debunking. From Wiki....

The Reagan era was marked by cuts to social programs, and large-scale deficit spending on the military. Reaganomics had its roots in two of Reagan's campaign promises: lower taxes and a smaller government. Reagan reduced income tax rates, with the largest rate reductions on the highest incomes; in a time of battling inflation, Reagan raised deficit spending to its highest level (relative to GDP) since World War II.

More from Wiki...
United States House of Representatives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Most bills may be introduced in either House of Congress. However, the Constitution provides that "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives." As a result, the Senate does not have the power to initiate bills imposing taxes. Furthermore, the House of Representatives holds that the Senate does not have the power to originate appropriation bills, or bills authorizing the expenditure of federal funds. Historically, the Senate has disputed the interpretation advocated by the House. However, whenever the Senate originates an appropriations bill, the House simply refuses to consider it, thereby settling the dispute in practice. The constitutional provision barring the Senate from introducing revenue bills is based on the practice of the British Parliament, in which only the House of Commons may originate such measures.

Although it cannot originate revenue bills, the Senate retains the power to amend or reject them. As Woodrow Wilson wrote:

[T]he Senate's right to amend [revenue bills] has been allowed the widest possible scope. The upper house may add to them what it pleases; may go altogether outside of their original provisions and tack to them entirely new features of legislation, altering not only the amounts but even the objects of expenditure, and making out of the materials sent them by the popular chamber measures of an almost totally new character.
The approval of both the Senate and the House of Representatives is required for any bill, including a revenue bill, to become law. Both Houses must pass the exact same version of the bill; if there are differences, they may be resolved by a conference committee, which includes members of both bodies. For the stages through which bills pass in the Senate, see Act of Congress.

 

[Chris]

Reagan was in office during the 97th, 98th, 99th, and 100th congresses. Republicans riding Reagan's coattails made gains in the congressional elections of 1980 and won the Senate majority for the first time in 26 years, but the House of Representatives retained a Democratic majority. Reagan recognized that he would have to work with them, and find ways to win Democrats over to his policy initiatives. He was able to cultivate a group of southern Democrats, nicknamed the "Boll Weevils," after the pests whose larvae are born in cotton bolls and burrow from within to destroy the crop. Despite their party allegiance, their conservative constituents made them sympathetic to Reagan's policy agenda. For the first six years of his administration his personal popularity made all Democrats wary of thwarting his pet projects, lest they lose the support of their own districts.

President Reagan Biography | Reagan and Congress

 

[jreeves]

More from Wiki...
United States House of Representatives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Most bills may be introduced in either House of Congress. However, the Constitution provides that "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives." As a result, the Senate does not have the power to initiate bills imposing taxes. Furthermore, the House of Representatives holds that the Senate does not have the power to originate appropriation bills, or bills authorizing the expenditure of federal funds. Historically, the Senate has disputed the interpretation advocated by the House. However, whenever the Senate originates an appropriations bill, the House simply refuses to consider it, thereby settling the dispute in practice. The constitutional provision barring the Senate from introducing revenue bills is based on the practice of the British Parliament, in which only the House of Commons may originate such measures.

Although it cannot originate revenue bills, the Senate retains the power to amend or reject them. As Woodrow Wilson wrote:

[T]he Senate's right to amend [revenue bills] has been allowed the widest possible scope. The upper house may add to them what it pleases; may go altogether outside of their original provisions and tack to them entirely new features of legislation, altering not only the amounts but even the objects of expenditure, and making out of the materials sent them by the popular chamber measures of an almost totally new character.
The approval of both the Senate and the House of Representatives is required for any bill, including a revenue bill, to become law. Both Houses must pass the exact same version of the bill; if there are differences, they may be resolved by a conference committee, which includes members of both bodies. For the stages through which bills pass in the Senate, see Act of Congress.

Even more from Wiki...
President of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The president is the chief executive of the United States, putting him at the head of the executive branch of the government, whose responsibility is to "take care that the laws be faithfully executed". To carry out this duty, he is given control of the four million employees of the vast executive branch, including one million active duty personnel in the military. Both the legislative and judicial branches maintain checks and balances on the powers of the president, and vice versa.

Various executive and judicial branch appointments are made by presidents, including presidents-elect. Up to 6,000 appointments may be made by an incoming president before he takes office, and 8,000 more may be made while in office. Ambassadors, judges of the federal court system, members of the Cabinet, and other federal officers are all appointed by the president, with the "advice and consent" the Senate, granted by a simple majority. Appointments made while the Senate is in recess are temporary and expire at the end of the next session of the Senate. He may also grant pardons, as is often done just before the end of a presidential term.

In addition, while the president cannot directly introduce legislation, he can play an important role in shaping it, especially if the president's political party has a majority in one or both houses of Congress. While members of the executive branch are prohibited from simultaneously holding seats in Congress, they often write legislation and allow a member of Congress to introduce it for them. The president can further influence the legislative branch through the annual constitutionally-mandated report to Congress, which may be written or oral but in modern times is the State of the Union Address, which often outlines the president's legislative proposals for the coming year. If Congress passes a bill that the president disapproves of, he may veto it; the veto can be overridden only by two-thirds of both houses of Congress, making it substantially more difficult to enact the law.

Perhaps the most important of all presidential powers is command of the armed forces as commander-in-chief. The framers of the Constitution took care to limit the president's powers regarding the military; Federalist No. 69 states in part:

“ The President is to be commander-in-chief of the army and navy of the United States. [...] It would amount to nothing more than the supreme command and direction of the military and naval forces [...] while that [the power] of the British king extends to the DECLARING of war and to the RAISING and REGULATING of fleets and armies, all [of] which [...] would appertain to the legislature.[9] ”

While the power to declare war is constitutionally vested in Congress, the president commands and directs the military and is responsible for planning military strategy. Congress, pursuant the War Powers Act, must authorize any troop deployments more than 60 days in length. Military spending and regulations are also governed by Congress, providing a check to presidential power. Along with the armed forces, foreign policy is also directed by the president, including the ability to negotiate treaties, which are ratified with the consent by two-thirds of the Senate.

Now can you show me where in the article it states the President has the power to "tax and spend"?

 

[jreeves]

Reagan was in office during the 97th, 98th, 99th, and 100th congresses. Republicans riding Reagan's coattails made gains in the congressional elections of 1980 and won the Senate majority for the first time in 26 years, but the House of Representatives retained a Democratic majority. Reagan recognized that he would have to work with them, and find ways to win Democrats over to his policy initiatives. He was able to cultivate a group of southern Democrats, nicknamed the "Boll Weevils," after the pests whose larvae are born in cotton bolls and burrow from within to destroy the crop. Despite their party allegiance, their conservative constituents made them sympathetic to Reagan's policy agenda. For the first six years of his administration his personal popularity made all Democrats wary of thwarting his pet projects, lest they lose the support of their own districts.

President Reagan Biography | Reagan and Congress

The Democrats in the House started every spending bill in Congress and are therefore mainly responsible for the debt that resulted. Whether or not they were "Boll Weevils" or not is irrelevant.

 

[Chris]

The Democrats in the House started every spending bill in Congress and are therefore mainly responsible for the debt that resulted. Whether or not they were "Boll Weevils" or not is irrelevant.

Congress passed the budget Reagan wanted.

It is as simple as that.

Reagan and Bush are responsible for 90% of the National Debt.

 

[jreeves]

Congress passed the budget Reagan wanted.

It is as simple as that.

Reagan and Bush are responsible for 90% of the National Debt.

You can repeat that all you want but Presidents don't start any tax or spending bills. Congress starts tax and spending bills, even the Presidents proposed budget. Which gets debated and changed almost all the time.

 

[Chris]

You can repeat that all you want but Presidents don't start any tax or spending bills. Congress starts tax and spending bills, even the Presidents proposed budget. Which gets debated and changed almost all the time.

I don't blame you for trying to avoid responsibility for the failed policies of Reagan and Bush. They were a disaster!

 

[jreeves]

I don't blame you for trying to avoid responsibility for the failed policies of Reagan and Bush. They were a disaster!

I don't blame you for trying to pull shit out of your ass and throwing it against the wall, hoping that it sticks. For political partisan hackmanship purposes...

 

[Chris]

I don't blame you for trying to pull shit out of your ass and throwing it against the wall, hoping that it sticks. For political partisan hackmanship purposes...

ReaganBushDebt.org

 

[jreeves]

ReaganBushDebt.org

An officially debunked liberal lie, Congress controls the purse strings not the President. The President only has the right to veto tax and spend bills which can be overridden by Congress.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Congress passed the budget Reagan wanted.

It is as simple as that.

Reagan and Bush are responsible for 90% of the National Debt.

Actually factually and historically INCORRECT. Reagan NEVER had a budget request passed by the Congress. The Democrats, upset that he wanted more money for the Military tacked on additional money for social programs in every bill. Every Budget passed while Reagan was president spent MORE than he asked for. The Democrats announced basically after they lost on defense that for every dollar he got on defense they were gonna get one for social programs.

Go ahead Kirk do a little research and post for us Reagan's Budget requests and then the actual amounts approved. I won't hold my breath though, waiting for you to waffle.

 

[Paulie]

You can repeat that all you want but Presidents don't start any tax or spending bills. Congress starts tax and spending bills, even the Presidents proposed budget. Which gets debated and changed almost all the time.

You are of course right, but how much of Bush's budget proposals were really trimmed that much by the Republicans majority in congress?

The issue is that the Repubs moved with Bush in lockstep, and he got most of what he wanted in regards to spending.

Obviously Kirk is trying to place too MUCH blame on just one person, but the main problem is that conservatives voted for a guy they thought was going to be conservative, and he ended up being anything BUT. A true fiscal conservative would never have even PROPOSED the budgets that Bush did, let alone be willing to sign even the ones that congress sent back to him.

 

[editec]

Budget deficits are simply parameters of the economy?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Budget deficits are the result of the tax cut and spend policies of the Republican Party. Reagan and Bush are responsible for 90% of the National Debt.

ReaganBushDebt.org

Spot on.

In my lifetime the highest rate of taxes has plummetted from 90% to 35%.

That's nearly a 60% decrease in taxation for the superrich.

Now I was around very wealthy people back them and believe me they were were STILL plenty rich even paying that absurd rate (that how rich they really are , fans)

Meanwhile at roughtly the same time, the rate of social security taxation imposed the working classes had risen 1,500% (from 1% to about 15%) as the amount taken out for social secuity and medicade increased to deal with the democgraphics of an aging population.

So while the right complains about how social security and medicade cost the government so much, (even though they're really on different budgets coming from completely different revenue streams) the masters they are so slavishly loyal to, are NOT paying anywhere near the majority of that money.

It an accounting logic shell game, that sadly, far too many working class and professional class people can't find the pea under the shell.

Income and taxation disparity is wrecking this Republic, folks.

Remember now that Bill Gates pays the same amount as somone making maybe only $100,000 or so of THOSE SSI and medicade taxes which are the largest taxes that working people pay.

The rich are not paying for our social security and medicade folks, WE ARE.

What percentage of of SSI and medicade taxes do the superwealthy really pay? I doubt it's 10% of those taxes, folks.

Anyone actually know?

We can all quote how the superrich pay so much of FICA, but that is really the smallest part of taxes being paid by all Americans in total, I suspect.

Throw in sales taxes and local taxes, that the working and poor classes pay, and I'm betting the working classes are paying MOST of the taxes in this nation, while making a smaller amount (in aggregate) than the top 5% are making combined.

The taxation system is rigged for the benefit of the superwealthy.

Not you doctor, not your lawyer, and certainly not the guy selling you coffee in the 7-11, not anyone who WORKS for a living, but for the stupendously rich.

 

[sealybobo]

You are of course right, but how much of Bush's budget proposals were really trimmed that much by the Republicans majority in congress?

The issue is that the Repubs moved with Bush in lockstep, and he got most of what he wanted in regards to spending.

Obviously Kirk is trying to place too MUCH blame on just one person, but the main problem is that conservatives voted for a guy they thought was going to be conservative, and he ended up being anything BUT. A true fiscal conservative would never have even PROPOSED the budgets that Bush did, let alone be willing to sign even the ones that congress sent back to him.

This budget doesn't even include Iraq war funding or unemployment, just to name a couple of things it omitted. And for those people that tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, what they count on is that either I have a short memory or don't have access to a computer:

Bush Team's Fuzzy Math, Questions About Medicare Cost, Job Creation & The Deficit - CBS News

In his 2004 State of the Union address, the president pledged to halve the deficit by 2009. But his plan largely excludes the cost of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and does not reflect the long-term impact of Mr. Bush's proposal to make recent tax cuts permanent.

There's often debate in Washington over numbers, and past administrations have also been accused of fudging it. But the Bush team's math seems unusually sloppy to some long-time observers.

"I have to say, the budget gimmicks this year are so transparent and so obvious, I think they stunned even Republicans," said Robert Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition, a nonpartisan group that advocates fiscal responsibility.

"Usually you have to dig a little bit deeper to find sort of subtle gimmicks," he said. "There's nothing subtle about these: They just decided to leave a lot of big items out."

 

[Chris]

Spot on.

In my lifetime the highest rate of taxes has plummetted from 90% to 35%.

That's nearly a 60% decrease in taxation for the superrich.

Now I was around very wealthy people back them and believe me they were were STILL plenty rich even paying that absurd rate (that how rich they really are , fans)

Meanwhile at roughtly the same time, the rate of social security taxation imposed the working classes had risen 1,500% (from 1% to about 15%) as the amount taken out for social secuity and medicade increased to deal with the democgraphics of an aging population.

So while the right complains about how social security and medicade cost the government so much, (even though they're really on different budgets coming from completely different revenue streams) the masters they are so slavishly loyal to, are NOT paying anywhere near the majority of that money.

It an accounting logic shell game, that sadly, far too many working class and professional class people can't find the pea under the shell.

Income and taxation disparity is wrecking this Republic, folks.

Remember now that Bill Gates pays the same amount as somone making maybe only $100,000 or so of THOSE SSI and medicade taxes which are the largest taxes that working people pay.

The rich are not paying for our social security and medicade folks, WE ARE.

What percentage of of SSI and medicade taxes do the superwealthy really pay? I doubt it's 10% of those taxes, folks.

Anyone actually know?

We can all quote how the superrich pay so much of FICA, but that is really the smallest part of taxes being paid by all Americans in total, I suspect.

Throw in sales taxes and local taxes, that the working and poor classes pay, and I'm betting the working classes are paying MOST of the taxes in this nation, while making a smaller amount (in aggregate) than the top 5% are making combined.

The taxation system is rigged for the benefit of the superwealthy.

Not you doctor, not your lawyer, and certainly not the guy selling you coffee in the 7-11, not anyone who WORKS for a living, but for the stupendously rich.

The disparity between the rich and the rest of us is now at the highest it ever has been. It time to raise taxes on the rich and get our financial house back in order.

 

[Paulie]

The disparity between the rich and the rest of us is now at the highest it ever has been. It time to raise taxes on the rich and get our financial house back in order.

No, it's time to cut unconstitutional and wasteful spending, and get our financial house back in order. Spending levels of pre-2000 would not even require much of our tax revenue we already receive.