2 mid-Michigan dams breached, thousands evacuated amid flooding

[martybegan]

They got a ton of raid due to a stalled rotating system that just kept pumping water into many watersheds in the area.

The 2nd failure appears to be a cascade failure from the first dam breaching.

I have a feeling people will be scrounging for maintenance records on these dams, especially their spillway maintenance and operation records.

Just another fine example of neglected priorities by elected officials

We don't have evidence of anything either way. Right now the job is to get people out of the way, whatever mobile property you can out of the way, sandbag or berm crucial infrastructure items, and then clean up afterwards.

Finding evidence of maintenance failure is usually pretty easy, if that is what has happened.

Michigan dam had repeated safety violations before flooding

A hydroelectric dam that failed to hold back floodwaters this week in Michigan was the target of lengthy investigations by federal regulators.

www.wilx.com

The quote below shows the issues with competing regulatory goals, and gives you an idea of the problems over-regulation can cause.

The company twice lowered Wixom Lake’s level without permission after the federal license was revoked, said Nick Assendelft, spokesman for the Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes and Energy, which has overseen the Edenville barrier since its federal license was withdrawn.

The department was pursuing enforcement action for the violation and resulting damage to natural resources when the dam gave way, Assendelft said. A lawsuit filed April 30 says the lengthy drawdowns in 2018 and 2019 killed “thousands, if not millions” of freshwater mussels, many listed as endangered species.

So they were told the lake overflow was not adequate, but when they lowered the lake, which acts a buffer to overflow potential, they were sued because lowering the lake could hurt freshwater mussels.

What part of “they failed to maintain the pumps” are you not hearing?

What pumps? The article mentioned lack of spillway capacity?

The article mentioned numerous problems going back 20 years. None of which have anything to do with which party is sitting in the governor’s mansion and everything to do with yet another corporation endangering lives and destroying private property in the name of profit and greed.

When will Americans stop worshipping at the feet of profiteers and bagmen and start expecting companies to act in the best interests of the community it’s profiting off of.

These are simply basic concepts for the rest of the first world.

PEOPLE FIRST.

Did I make any reference to party? the article shows contradictory directives from regulating agencies.

the rest of your post is SJW commie agitprop crap.

 

[martybegan]

They got a ton of raid due to a stalled rotating system that just kept pumping water into many watersheds in the area.

The 2nd failure appears to be a cascade failure from the first dam breaching.

I have a feeling people will be scrounging for maintenance records on these dams, especially their spillway maintenance and operation records.

Just another fine example of neglected priorities by elected officials

We don't have evidence of anything either way. Right now the job is to get people out of the way, whatever mobile property you can out of the way, sandbag or berm crucial infrastructure items, and then clean up afterwards.

Finding evidence of maintenance failure is usually pretty easy, if that is what has happened.

Michigan dam had repeated safety violations before flooding

A hydroelectric dam that failed to hold back floodwaters this week in Michigan was the target of lengthy investigations by federal regulators.

www.wilx.com

The quote below shows the issues with competing regulatory goals, and gives you an idea of the problems over-regulation can cause.

The company twice lowered Wixom Lake’s level without permission after the federal license was revoked, said Nick Assendelft, spokesman for the Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes and Energy, which has overseen the Edenville barrier since its federal license was withdrawn.

The department was pursuing enforcement action for the violation and resulting damage to natural resources when the dam gave way, Assendelft said. A lawsuit filed April 30 says the lengthy drawdowns in 2018 and 2019 killed “thousands, if not millions” of freshwater mussels, many listed as endangered species.

So they were told the lake overflow was not adequate, but when they lowered the lake, which acts a buffer to overflow potential, they were sued because lowering the lake could hurt freshwater mussels.

I'm guessing they lowered the lake level because the dam wasn't up to par? Why didn't they just fix the dam?

You think that happens on a dime? The issue was spillway capacity. You have to expand the spillways, which means increasing their size, which means modifying the dam, which means approval from multiple agencies.

I realize there is a lot involved. Twenty years is a long time, though. This company, according to other posters' information, did not follow through with it's plans during that time.

Well, it's too late now. People are under water and it seems to be a domino effect. Once in 500 year rainfall? The people owning the dams were hoping it wouldn't happen on their watch. But it did. At least it's bringing the issue of infrastructure to people's minds again. Infrastructure isn't terribly interesting or likely to captivate people's interest, but it's kinda important, as Michigan is being reminded.

What we need to know is the reason they didn't follow through. What were the regulatory agencies asking for? Where 3 different agencies asking for 3 different things? The counterintuitive directives one, to mitigate spillway volume risk, and the other not to lower the reservoirs due to mussel beds shows that not even the government was on the same page when it came to any modifications to the operating conditions.

The one line about "unauthorized repairs" is also telling, indicating that probably some agency wasn't 100% happy with how they were maintaining the dam, and the owners took it upon themselves to do the repairs and deal with the consequences anyway.

That's why I said, damned if they did and damned if they didn't. However, since they lowered the lake level without authorization and undertook repairs without prior approval, it's not all that surprising that they got called on it.
I'm not saying all these regulations don't step on each other's toes, frustrate and confuse the issue--sometimes they do. But I'm not going to defend them "just because" either. There are no doubt billions in damage here which could have been prevented if the dams and spillways had been kept up to snuff. You can't put all the blame on the government for that.

You can if they prevented them from doing easy repairs by holding out for harder, more complicated ones because that's what the government wanted.

 

[martybegan]

California failed to use the money handed to them ust so they could " fix" the dams ---------- so assume assume when you fail to up keep it's going to happen and ppl do NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THEIR LOCAL GOV. ASSHOLES!! Lazy ass American wentn to sleep a long time ago.

Hey stupid. There hasn’t been any money given to states for infrastructure. And this happened in Michigan. Not California.

Stupid, ignorant and conservative is no way to go through life.

"Any" money?

I am working on a project right now funded partially by federal funds, managed by a State Agency.

So where did that money come from?

Part of the State's infrastructure program. There are three levels of government, each responsible for various levels of infrastructure. States can apply for federal matching/assistance dollars on some types of state infrastructure, so if it's "partially funded by federal $$", that means that this isn't a "federal project".

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IF10592.pdf

No, we get state and federal funding, the federal funding being a HUD grant managed by the State.

If I have to follow federal funding regs, it's a federal project, and could be a State one as well.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

The beginning of the dam failure caught on cell phone.

The little Dutch boy was off that day.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I kept believing these were hydroelectric dams, and obviously this one is not. The federal government has no business spending money to repair this type of dam.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

That was the failure of the Edenville dam which holds back Wixom Lake (an artificial lake).
It is north and upstream of Midland
It caused a series of failures.

A hydroelectric dam that failed to hold back floodwaters this week in Michigan was the target of lengthy investigations by federal regulators, who revoked the facility's license over safety violations two years before the flooding that forced 10,000 people to evacuate their homes.

Boyce Hydro Power's history of violations lasted throughout the 14 years the company was authorized to run the nearly century-old Edenville dam, according to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, which said it repeatedly raised concerns about the dam's ability to prevent flooding during extreme conditions because of its inadequate spillway capacity.

Michigan dam had record of safety violations before failure

The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission said it repeatedly raised concerns about the dam's ability to prevent flooding during extreme conditions because of its inadequate spillway capacity.

www.google.com

 

[theHawk]

The governor is reporting on the emergency

2 mid-Michigan dams breached, thousands evacuated amid flooding

Two breached dams caused by several days of rainfall and rising water on Tuesday forced the evacuation of about 10,000 people in mid-Michigan.

www.woodtv.com

I thought Dems were all about “infrastructure”?

Looks like Michigan Mom failed again.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

America’s Aging Dams Are in Need of Repair (Published 2017)

Dam crises and failures in California and Nevada shed light on an aging American infrastructure.

www.nytimes.com

Foreign aid by country: Whoâs getting the most â and how much?

Updated for 2024, these countries receive the most foreign aid from the US. Here’s what they’re doing with the money.

www.concernusa.org

Who gets the most foreign aid?
Globally in 2017, the United States spent over $46 billion in foreign aid. Over 38.5% of that budget went to just ten countries:

1. Afghanistan ($4.89 billion)
2. Iraq ($3.36 billion)
3. Israel ($3.18 billion)
4. Jordan ($1.38 billion)
5. Ethiopia ($943 million)
6. South Sudan ($922 million)
7. Kenya ($899 million)
8. Pakistan ($892 million)
9. Nigeria ($644 million)
10. Uganda ($608 million).

 

[martybegan]

I kept believing these were hydroelectric dams, and obviously this one is not. The federal government has no business spending money to repair this type of dam.

It actually had a hydroelectric station i believe, but it was probably in another structure, not part of the earthen dam.

 

[beagle9]

I kept believing these were hydroelectric dams, and obviously this one is not. The federal government has no business spending money to repair this type of dam.

Not the feds, but the state regulatory commission on dams should always be on top of dams with levels that exceed a dangerous amount of water that could pose catostrophic results if left unattended or unregulated to the point of possible failure.

 

[MisterBeale]

I kept believing these were hydroelectric dams, and obviously this one is not. The federal government has no business spending money to repair this type of dam.

It actually had a hydroelectric station i believe, but it was probably in another structure, not part of the earthen dam.

The spillways were earthen, however, next to both Edenville and Sanford, there were generators.

I am unclear who they sold power to though. Part of the penalty for not having them up to code, is Boyce Hydro was not allowed to sell the power they generated to the grid, from what I have been made aware.
What they did with it? I can only guess.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

As our infrastructure crumbles, government enriches and protects big corporations.

It’s the American Way!

Indeed

 

[BlueGin]

Their Wanna-be Dictator Governor was to busy making up executive edicts for people to comply with than making sure the dams were properly maintained and in good shape.

That and preening in media interviews about what a good dictator she is.

 

[MisterBeale]

They got a ton of raid due to a stalled rotating system that just kept pumping water into many watersheds in the area.

The 2nd failure appears to be a cascade failure from the first dam breaching.

I have a feeling people will be scrounging for maintenance records on these dams, especially their spillway maintenance and operation records.

Just another fine example of neglected priorities by elected officials

We don't have evidence of anything either way. Right now the job is to get people out of the way, whatever mobile property you can out of the way, sandbag or berm crucial infrastructure items, and then clean up afterwards.

Finding evidence of maintenance failure is usually pretty easy, if that is what has happened.

Michigan dam had repeated safety violations before flooding

A hydroelectric dam that failed to hold back floodwaters this week in Michigan was the target of lengthy investigations by federal regulators.

www.wilx.com

The quote below shows the issues with competing regulatory goals, and gives you an idea of the problems over-regulation can cause.

The company twice lowered Wixom Lake’s level without permission after the federal license was revoked, said Nick Assendelft, spokesman for the Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes and Energy, which has overseen the Edenville barrier since its federal license was withdrawn.

The department was pursuing enforcement action for the violation and resulting damage to natural resources when the dam gave way, Assendelft said. A lawsuit filed April 30 says the lengthy drawdowns in 2018 and 2019 killed “thousands, if not millions” of freshwater mussels, many listed as endangered species.

So they were told the lake overflow was not adequate, but when they lowered the lake, which acts a buffer to overflow potential, they were sued because lowering the lake could hurt freshwater mussels.

I'm guessing they lowered the lake level because the dam wasn't up to par? Why didn't they just fix the dam?

You think that happens on a dime? The issue was spillway capacity. You have to expand the spillways, which means increasing their size, which means modifying the dam, which means approval from multiple agencies.

I realize there is a lot involved. Twenty years is a long time, though. This company, according to other posters' information, did not follow through with it's plans during that time.

Well, it's too late now. People are under water and it seems to be a domino effect. Once in 500 year rainfall? The people owning the dams were hoping it wouldn't happen on their watch. But it did. At least it's bringing the issue of infrastructure to people's minds again. Infrastructure isn't terribly interesting or likely to captivate people's interest, but it's kinda important, as Michigan is being reminded.

I . . . "lived" two blocks from that Sanford Dam up till a few days ago.

for the past thirteen years, I have watched that city park flood every three years or so. . . as the spill way overflowed, pretty much as it is designed to.

I have also followed the local politics of the company that got suckered into taking care of these debacles. I am sure it sounded like a wise investment years ago before wetland standards changed, the climate started shifting a bit (regardless of the cause,) I believe they have also wanted the local authorities and tax-payers to buy the infrastructure back, but the government wanted to build a multi-million dollar beach and spray water park for the residents and kids. . . . as that makes the politicians, of both parties have a better resume.

I have so much more to tell, and so much more to write, but I am on dial up, way out in the woods, and an awful lap top, whose FONTS keep fluctuating, I can't edit worth shit. . . and I am stressed with a migraine to hell. I have to get up early tomorrow to go back into the disaster zone and do more salvage work at what used to be my house, and help others in my community if I have any energy.

I read the absolute stupidity of 95% of the senseless posts about this topic just break my heart. Thank you, marty, MDK and death angle for taking the time to try to understand what is really go on in my home town.


This is not the fault of corporations, nor is it the fault of political parties. It is the fault of selfish individauls and bad policy makers succumbing to the interests of stake holders with money, and folks putting their own interests above that of the community, and a lot of folks thinking, that the unthinkable, improbable won't happen. But like we see, over and over again, it can, and will, and does happen.


Greed and power know no party, are not confined to corporations of government. . . low battery. . .

 

[Aletheia4u]

 

[Christ_on_a_croissant]

All the money went to the illegals so they could stay in a 5 star rather than fix the dam...... good ur dumb fks deserve it all. Sry ppl with minds have to pay for it too though.

You can be sure it was no gawd dam accident either.

Holy shit, you’re insane. Seriously, talk to a psychologist

 

[Shawnee_b]

America’s Aging Dams Are in Need of Repair (Published 2017)

Dam crises and failures in California and Nevada shed light on an aging American infrastructure.

www.nytimes.com

Foreign aid by country: Whoâs getting the most â and how much?

Updated for 2024, these countries receive the most foreign aid from the US. Here’s what they’re doing with the money.

www.concernusa.org

Who gets the most foreign aid?
Globally in 2017, the United States spent over $46 billion in foreign aid. Over 38.5% of that budget went to just ten countries:

1. Afghanistan ($4.89 billion)
2. Iraq ($3.36 billion)
3. Israel ($3.18 billion)
4. Jordan ($1.38 billion)
5. Ethiopia ($943 million)
6. South Sudan ($922 million)
7. Kenya ($899 million)
8. Pakistan ($892 million)
9. Nigeria ($644 million)
10. Uganda ($608 million).

WTF. Why. Time for this shit to stop. 20 Tril in debt and we fund these assholes? I have heard dems say, if your table is full share. Well it's not full. Hasn't been in a long time. Shut it down.

 

[martybegan]

I kept believing these were hydroelectric dams, and obviously this one is not. The federal government has no business spending money to repair this type of dam.

It actually had a hydroelectric station i believe, but it was probably in another structure, not part of the earthen dam.

The spillways were earthen, however, next to both Edenville and Sanford, there were generators.

I am unclear who they sold power to though. Part of the penalty for not having them up to code, is Boyce Hydro was not allowed to sell the power they generated to the grid, from what I have been made aware.
What they did with it? I can only guess.

After they were banned from providing power, the turbines were probably just isolated and left idle.

 

[justinacolmena]

What does the dam failing have to do with the governor being a Democrat?

Don't be spending a Republican dime to fix a Democrat dam. Workers rights OSHA safety environmental regulations, punching in that labor union time clock on substandard concrete. You gotta fix that corrupt political machine before you go wasting money on "infrastructure" of some federal asshole doing a sting on "CRITINFR" security or "critical infrastructure" engineered obsolescence designed to fail just like all the consumer shit we are allowed to buy but not make or sell.

 

[Rye Catcher]

What happened to Obama’s shovel ready jobs helping with the infrastructure?-

He waved a magic wand and the money went to Wall Street instead.

I understand that both damns are privately owned, mocking Obama's efforts to put the economy together worked, notwithstanding what Limbaugh, Hannity and Trump must have told you what to believe.

See: Eight Years Later: What the Recovery Act Taught Us about Investing in Transportation

And if you don't read this link, you will continue to put forward another BIG LIE, the grist which the GOP and the Right Wing thrive upon.