18 Shot at Northern Illinois University

[Annie]

Glad your daughter and son's girlfriend are ok. Scary stuff.

Thank you. Very much so. We are redoing our emergency plan at school because of it. Truth is, very little can be done about someone who wants to kill and doesn't mind offing themselves or being taken down.

 

[JimH52]

I am far from being a gun control advocate. I have a gun cabinet full for hunting purposes but you gotta ask yourself, where the h*ll does this madness stop!

 

[midcan5]

The guy was off his meds. He was sick. He never should have had a gun if he was on meds.

Has nothing to do with the parents.

Jillian, I mostly agree but the harder question for society is why so many resort to killing? You hear of this in other places but we have, in spite of everything, one of the best places to live in the history of the world, and yet so many resort to senseless mass murder.

The parent question is harder, the only murderer I have known personally was a drug addict from a broken home. But what of others? or are the parents in need of help too?

 

[jillian]

Jillian, I mostly agree but the harder question for society is why so many resort to killing? You hear of this in other places but we have, in spite of everything, one of the best places to live in the history of the world, and yet so many resort to senseless mass murder.

The parent question is harder, the only murderer I have known personally was a drug addict from a broken home. But what of others? or are the parents in need of help too?

Honestly, I'm not all that interested in the societal question in regard to *this* particular case because while I understand what you're saying, I don't think it's the MAJOR question here. To me, the major question is why someone mentally ill has a gun.

Once we get past that particular question, we can get to the others. Personally, I think a lot of it has to do with there being more and more competition for fewer and fewer everything... spaces in college, jobs, financial aid, etc. This starts even before middle school where I live, with babies of 10 years old competing for limited spaces in the better schools. Does that undue pressure contribute to psychosis and sociopathy later on for those with predispositions to those problems. Perhaps. I'm not qualified to make that analysis.

I'm also not sure we can change the circumstances that lead up to it.... what I am sure of is that we should be asking ourselves why this guy was able to legally purchase guns.

 

[JimH52]

Jillian, I mostly agree but the harder question for society is why so many resort to killing? You hear of this in other places but we have, in spite of everything, one of the best places to live in the history of the world, and yet so many resort to senseless mass murder.

The parent question is harder, the only murderer I have known personally was a drug addict from a broken home. But what of others? or are the parents in need of help too?

This guy's dad asked the media to leave him alone and that is what should be done. The man lost his wife last year. Can you imagine the pain he is going through. He just lost his wife and now he has lost a son, who will be vilified forever. I don't think I can perceive of his pain or the pain of the parents who lost their children in this senseless ordeal. It is so tragic.

The killer had mental problems.

 

[midcan5]

Jillian, JimH52, I agree, I guess in the end it is the ease with which nuts and the depressed can get guns in this nation.

http://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html

"Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05."

 

[Gunny]

I am far from being a gun control advocate. I have a gun cabinet full for hunting purposes but you gotta ask yourself, where the h*ll does this madness stop!

It doesn't. It's the price we pay for a free society. The alternative is more government control. I notice that doesn't matter much when it's controlling someithing one doesn't care about, but I'd love to see the comparison of numbers regarding gun control advocates who also went into the screaming meemies over the eavesdropping BS.

Jillian hit the nail on the head ... this idiot should not have been allowed to purchase nor posess a firearm.

 

[JimH52]

It doesn't. It's the price we pay for a free society. The alternative is more government control. I notice that doesn't matter much when it's controlling someithing one doesn't care about, but I'd love to see the comparison of numbers regarding gun control advocates who also went into the screaming meemies over the eavesdropping BS.

Jillian hit the nail on the head ... this idiot should not have been allowed to purchase nor posess a firearm.

But Gunny, how do we address this? From all reports, this guy was not a nut case. He was a "good student" that may have been taking a medication. He was "eratic" because he stopped taking it.

Now, how many "good students that might be taking medication" are out there who could do the same thing next week? How do you gage when someone is so mentally imbalanced that could do something like this?

I have had experience with a family member who had mental issues and it is the hardest thing to understand. While it is hard to understand, it also can be a threat to society.

Should Mental Health issues come out of the closet, so to speak? Should we be more aware of those around us who have emotional and mental issues? Does personal privacy and confidentiality trump community safety and welfare?

 

[Gunny]

But Gunny, how do we address this? From all reports, this guy was not a nut case. He was a "good student" that may have been taking a medication. He was "eratic" because he stopped taking it.

Now, how many "good students that might be taking medication" are out there who could do the same thing next week? How do you gage when someone is so mentally imbalanced that could do something like this?

I have had experience with a family member who had mental issues and it is the hardest thing to understand. While it is hard to understand, it also can be a threat to society.

Should Mental Health issues come out of the closet, so to speak? Should we be more aware of those around us who have emotional and mental issues? Does personal privacy and confidentiality trump community safety and welfare?

You can't address it in general unless you are willing to punish the whole for the actions of the exceptions.

Addressing the specific ... IMO, if one undergoes psychiatric care and is diagnosed with behavioral problems that are corrected by medication, then that should be reported into the same system used to do the BATF background check. In both this instance and the VT shooting, had that been done, neither shooter would have been able to obtain a firearm legally.

 

[MasterChief]

Listen folks,
One of the first things cut on state and federal budgets is money for mental health care. Likewise, with a country that has such a strong feel of individual liberty, forcing someone into a mental health center, when they refuse to go, is nearly impossible. Under the Baker Act, to put a person in psyc ward they must demonstrate that they are a danger to themselves or others. How do you do that if a person has done nothing wrong? Many people want to make this an accessibility to weapons issue--I disagree. IMHO, this is a mental health issue. The guns were just the means to the slaughter. He could have done the same thing with a bunch of knives, an SUV or baseball bat. A person who is out of their mind and is determined to do violence is going to find the means to do the violence. A person who is acting irrationally or who goes off his or her meds should be taken to a mental health center and isolated until his or her condition can be brought under control. We should not have to wait until they "do something" crazy before law enforcement and mental health can intervene.

 

[Zoomie1980]

But Gunny, how do we address this? From all reports, this guy was not a nut case. He was a "good student" that may have been taking a medication. He was "eratic" because he stopped taking it.

Now, how many "good students that might be taking medication" are out there who could do the same thing next week? How do you gage when someone is so mentally imbalanced that could do something like this?

I have had experience with a family member who had mental issues and it is the hardest thing to understand. While it is hard to understand, it also can be a threat to society.

Should Mental Health issues come out of the closet, so to speak? Should we be more aware of those around us who have emotional and mental issues? Does personal privacy and confidentiality trump community safety and welfare?

You, DON'T, period. As he said, it's the price you pay for living in an open society where we are largely free to do what we want, including owning guns. Get over it and move on, as it will happen again, from time to time.

 

[midcan5]

Addressing the specific ... IMO, if one undergoes psychiatric care and is diagnosed with behavioral problems that are corrected by medication, then that should be reported into the same system used to do the BATF background check. In both this instance and the VT shooting, had that been done, neither shooter would have been able to obtain a firearm legally.

Gunny, sorta funny in the same thread you say this is the price of freedom and now you call for controls. You better be careful next thing you know they'll be calling you a 'liberal.'

 

[jillian]

Gunny, sorta funny in the same thread you say this is the price of freedom and now you call for controls. You better be careful next thing you know they'll be calling you a 'liberal.'

Heh...

I think he's just showing common sense. No one wants people to have guns who shouldn't have them. The difference between Gunny and the less rational gun folk, is that his way would avoid giving an unstable person a gun in the first instance. Others would have you wait til the person uses the gun improperly.

I figure Gunny's way maks more sense vis a vis a history of mental illness.

 

[JimH52]

Read this article about his girlfriend. How would you ever predict this guy would snap? What medication was he on?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/17/shooter.girlfriend/index.html

 

[Skull Pilot]

who cares "why" he did it

the point is that the school was a gun free zone and because of that more people were injured and killed.

if someone there had a weapon and fired on this asshole, do you think that he might be the on on a slab and more of those kids would be alive and/or unhurt?

the liberal idea that if we clould only have known about this poor kid we could have helped him is not the way to think. what about the people this scum bag killed? i don't care that he was on meds. the fact that he chose to go off of them is indicative of his irresponsibility to himself and the people around him. in short he was just another selfish asshole who thought the world should revolve around him and when he finally figured out that it didn't he had a tantrum and killed some innocent kids.

if only someone had been able to carry a weapon, he might be the one with a bullet in the brain and more of those inocent kids would be here today

 

[godhelpus]

Gun control protects criminals .PERIOD. Responsible citizens should have a right to protect themselves. Illegal arms dealers flood the streets with weapons from other countries, not many criminals will but their guns legally. We will be sitting ducks , easy targets for criminals and possibly rogue government.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Why do we even have gun free zones in schools. Prohibit the law abiding citizens from entering but let the criminals in, is that how it works.

 

[Bern80]

I don't buy that fully but it is a consideration as my wife often tells me how much kids have changed in her 25 years of teaching. But is still seems more prevalent in the US and other societies are just as open as we are, maybe more.


"The Americans value their constitution and the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment deals with the right to bear arms. Here is the price that ordinary Americans are paying for the privilege

- 8 children a day die in murders, suicides and accidents involving guns

- since John F. Kennedy was assinated more Americans have died from gunshot wounds at home than died in all the wars of the 20th century

- Osama bin Laden would need at least nine twin towers like attacks each year to equal what Americans do to themselves every year with guns.

- Murder rates in LA, NY and Chigago were approaching the hightest in the world (30 per 100,000) until moves were made in late 20th century to restrict access to guns to teenagers. (The NRA wants these moves reversed)

If Osama bin Laden had had more sense, instead of launching a terrorist attack, he would simply have provided financial backing to the NRA."

http://thegreenman.net.au/mt/archives/000473.html

...or we can not be free. Take your pick.

 

[Bern80]

But Gunny, how do we address this? From all reports, this guy was not a nut case. He was a "good student" that may have been taking a medication. He was "eratic" because he stopped taking it.

Now, how many "good students that might be taking medication" are out there who could do the same thing next week? How do you gage when someone is so mentally imbalanced that could do something like this?

I have had experience with a family member who had mental issues and it is the hardest thing to understand. While it is hard to understand, it also can be a threat to society.

Should Mental Health issues come out of the closet, so to speak? Should we be more aware of those around us who have emotional and mental issues? Does personal privacy and confidentiality trump community safety and welfare?

If you mean by 'address this' thinking you're going to stop every whack job from getting a gun, it's just not gonna happen. The only thing we can do is our best to keep guns out of the hands of those that shouldn't have them while not impeding the rights of others.

 

[Diuretic]

If you mean by 'address this' thinking you're going to stop every whack job from getting a gun, it's just not gonna happen. The only thing we can do is our best to keep guns out of the hands of those that shouldn't have them while not impeding the rights of others.

That's going to require some form of gun control.