And you do know that JFK was a DEMOCRAT President, don't YOU? A Democrat President sent troops to put down civil unrest wrought by White racists, not Democrats. There is no proof that the rioting White racists of that era were affiliated with any political party. You just assume they were without really knowing. But looking at the GOP today, I don't see much difference between the two when it comes to racial matters.Both parties fre full of racists.
Blacks are democrats because most of them are working class people who have a vested interest in labor and the collective bargaining apparatus that drives it. Most Blacks aren't liberal, they are just part of a labor force that is politically aligned with the Democratic Party. 75% of Backs live above the poverty level as a result of that strategy.
Ummm, really! Seriously? Ever hear of George Wallace? How about Bull Connor!
Folks, are these lefties that dumb, or do they think that we are that dumb not to catch them in their obvious, propaganda lies, lol!
Yes, I have heard of those two conservative democrats. Did you hear George Wallace refer to
the Freedom Riders as liberals although most were democrats too? Your attempt to make hatred and prejudice he national character of the Democratic Party fails miserably under closer scrutiny. And that held true even during the civil rights era. Republicans are quick to point the finger at conservative democrats of a bygone era while extolling the "virtues" of GOP conservatism today. For people of color, the key word here is "conservative." When a "conservative takes off his blue coat and dons a red jacket he remains a conservative.
Conservatism, has traditionally been associated with racism in this country no matter which party claims it!
Mostly agree although I would put it the opposite way. It's certainly possible to be conservative and not be racist (far as I know that would apply to Goldwater) --- but it's not possible to be racist and not be conservative.
The mistake the wags on this board constantly make is to ass ---ume that the label "Democrat" always means "liberal" and "Republican" always means "conservative". Not only is that not the case over historical what time, it's not even true on a single day.
I'll keep hammering the point until it sinks in for them --- the purpose of a political party is not to represent this or that ideology; it is to
get elected.
Well, thanks for acknowledging the part you agree with. I wholeheartedly agree that it is possible to be conservative and not be a racist. But here's a twist you might not have thought of.
First allow me to ask a question. Are Black Christians who attend church regularly, have excellent family bread winners, live a middle class lifestyle and are law abiding differ in any way from so-called White conservatives? There is one difference that rushes to the front of my mind.
The Black conservatives, as defined by me , in general, are not associated with racism. Unlike their white Christian counterparts whose shepherds looked the other way when members of their flock were lynching Blacks and spreading terrorism throughout the south and midwest.
While that one example from the past serves me well , I'll navigate forward to the present:
The word conservative take on an entirely different meaning when applied to Black folks by White people. White conservatives tend to attach the general conservative label to any Black who stands with them on social issues. Clarence Thomas and Ben Carson are two glaring examples of that. But should we accept that limited definition when defining the core citizenry of the Black community? They certainly aren't liberals. And don't make me bring the ultra conservative Farrakhan and the NOI into the mix!
By partaking in political discussions with Black friends, I have concluded that Black people do not see themselves as either liberal or conservative. So I had to study their worldview to determine if their lifestyle was that of conservatism in the classic sense. Now here is where my empiricism comes into play. By comparing the classic definition of conservatism to the behavior of the average Black churchgoing, hard-working family, I was able to conclude unequivocally that a great number of Blacks are conservative. On the other hand my other study showed manyWhite guys, especially low information types, who claim to be conservative use the term as a euphemism for whiteness.
In that context, the term takes on racial overtones.
Excellent points here. Yes I'm aware that black culture has its own internal standards that by any honest measure would qualify as 'conservative' and which whites of insufficient interaction with blacks may not even be aware of as they fail to support the ancient negative stereotypes handed down (even still) from the most racist days -- which, if we be honest, were not that long ago and absolutely did not just vanish because the 13th Amendment was passed. So yes I agree African culture has its own conservative mores, which are not to be conflated with politically conservative philosophies.
I don't think we have a disagreement on the comparison of (political) conservatives and racists though. If we limit to the usual "liberal-conservative" dichotomy, racism is only compatible with the latter; since the essence of Liberalism is "all men are created equal", it's impossible to believe that and simultaneously believe that one race of people (or one class, or one religion, nationality etc) is inherently superior or inferior. A Liberal can't do that, which is a direct reason a slaveholder of old could not be a Liberal even though he was perfectly free to be a Democrat.
Of course we tread into a rubbery definition of "conservative" here too -- at base meaning simply "resistant to change" and in favor of preserving the status quo, and in a socio-cultural sense meaning an adherence to traditions. Certainly the imaginary "war on Christmas" is an example of that aspect. These socio-cultural bents, in general terms, undoubtedly apply more to the (white) Southern culture than the (white) Northern one, again pointing to a more conservative (white) culture. I specify 'white' here because after all they (we) were the controllers of Slavery in this country.
I think you have an asute observation here:
many White guys, especially low information types, who claim to be conservative use the term as a euphemism for whiteness.
--- I suspect in many senses you are correct; white culture-ness, tradition, "heritage", etc. In one sense these still represent a certain conservatism in resisting any change or upheaval from the old daze, although it doesn't develop all that deeply into
political conservatism, in that, for example, this element might be vociferous that nobody should ever burn a flag, but they'd be lost in space given a philosophical discussion of what that means in First Amendment terms. Ultimately that's the effect of thinking emotionally rather than rationally. Flags are emotional; traditions are
very emotional.
So I see this element as conservative in the primary sense of 'traditional', even if many would not be able to articulate the finer points of political conservatism beyond the emotional level.
