12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

[OldLady]

Sieg Heil.

If your neighbor had an active case of Ebola Fever, would you want them removed from society? Keep your ridiculous Nazi comparisons to yourself.

---------------------------- ebola can be proven , mental illness can not be proven . Some people on this board could be accused of mental illness because of their political point of view i suppose Hunarcy .

And mental illness can be proven by the irrational ravings of the mentally ill. And, of course, by the dead bodies left in their wake. Honestly, I would rather err on the side of caution than mop up the aftermath of a shooting like happened in California.

--------------------------------------- i think that rational or irrational are simply OPINIONS until laws are broken Hunarcy

Sorry that you think that way. You, and people who think like you, are the problem. Your ilk EMPTIED the asylums back in the 70's, turning thousands out and creating the homeless problem we have today, where the mentally ill are reduced to screaming at lamp posts instead of getting the help they needed. And, you insist on having the mentally ill live amongst us and shoot us because you seem unwilling to allow them to get the help they need.

I do remember that some of the institutions for the mentally ill or just "defective," like mentally retarded or deaf and blind were atrocious and there were a lot of abuses. But instead of taking the money and the effort to improve them, they went with the cheaper solution of community residences and trying when possible to just let them out to live "independently." I was working a second job at night at a Dunkin Donuts when it happened, and we were very close by a large state mental institution. The homeless folk who began wandering in were just heartbreaking. And at times kinda scary. The police always showed up fast and were very kind to them, though. I don't know where they took them, but they got them out of the restaurant.
Poor things.

 

[bodecea]

Two things for sure:
1) after Sandy Hook where little children were cut to pieces by gun fire, this country will do NOTHING about gun violence
2) crazy gun nuts will sell fear of having their phallic symbols taken away and cry "false flag"

 

[bodecea]

One of the men killed. He survived the Las Vegas shooting....not this one.

Gosh. Talk about bad luck.

This is the new level.....not just people at mass shootings....but people experiencing MORE than one mass shooting.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Anyone see anything on some of the Vegas shooting survivors being in this one too

Yeah. I thought that was interesting.

One of the men killed. He survived the Las Vegas shooting....not this one.

Targeted killing....guy was well trained. What was victims name?

 

[joaquinmiller]

Two things for sure:
1) after Sandy Hook where little children were cut to pieces by gun fire, this country will do NOTHING about gun violence
2) crazy gun nuts will sell fear of having their phallic symbols taken away and cry "false flag"

There's no button for 'sad, but agree'.

 

[Olde Europe]

No, it's fucking crazy. Tell me which mass murder was a psyop to advance gun control.

Do you own research. Check "Sandy Hook" & "Infowars". So there!

 

[joaquinmiller]

No, it's fucking crazy. Tell me which mass murder was a psyop to advance gun control.

Do you own research. Check "Sandy Hook" & "Infowars". So there!

It proves there's no Sanity Clause.

 

[OldLady]

I went silent yesterday because as usual you are spouting your right wing bullshit tapes instead of listening to what I said. I don't expect anyone to agree, but if you want to talk, at least address what I said. I told you why the second amendment is a useless and counterproductive measure.

I also tried to suggest other options for getting our violence problem under control, but you have been conveniently dismissing all that because the NRA has apparently not given you sound bytes for those.

You just go on calling me stupid in as many ways as you can and then you start pulling in Stalin and Trotsky? WTF? C'mon Bruce. Put your feet on the ground and focus if you want to have a discussion.

I addressed your false perception about the uselessness of the 2nd Amendment.

Perhaps you need to revisit it? It was by the authority on world history, by that guy, Carroll Quigley, that is telling you the truth behind the corporate media conditioning you to the reason why you really want to get rid of it?

Did you watch that video? Breaking News - 12 Dead in Mass Shooting at So.Cal Bar

Minute 8:00, remember? You never addressed it. Why not? That is the authority on world history, he told us, remember, crucial to a nation's liberty?

Who are you to dispute that? Some professor at Harvard now?

I tried watching it, Mr. Beale, but I listened to quite a bit of it and did not see that it was addressing the second amendment. I don't agree with how you view the world's affairs. Sorry.

Why do you want to give up your right to self defense? Have you bothered to study the history of this issue? If you had, you would know what a terrible idea this is.

Well, I appreciate your approach, gipper. I made the choice early in my life not to protect myself with a firearm and I have never changed my mind. I was not aware that a lot of other countries had ever had an automatic right to own guns emblazoned in their Constitution. In retrospect, I think THAT may have been a terrible idea. Certainly, the resistance to restricting ownership to responsible and stable people has been a terrible idea and if people don't start compromising on this, I think the threat of the 2nd going away is going to become more real.
My position on guns has always been radical and I have no hope whatsoever of ever seeing my country agree with me.

As long as it is YOUR choice, that's fine. But, when you begin to impose your choice on everyone else because you don't like their choice, you create a problem.

As for "resistance to restricting ownership to responsible and stable people", I do not know anyone who feels that way. However, for the past 50 years, we have been promised that if we just "give up this one right", the world will become safer, which hasn't happened...in fact, things are worse. As a result, those who do see a need to own a firearm feel imposed on and don't want to give up any more of their rights.

Well put. There is great resistance among gun owners to give up their "right" to a gun, even if it means refusing to even allow more comprehensive and complete background checks and ERPO laws nationally that would help get guns out of the hands of those having a mental health crisis.
I have had enough people argue against those in these threads over the past couple of years to assure you the resistance to restricting ownership to responsible and stable people is very real. They do see it as an imposition on their freedom and their rights, you are right. I understand that. To me, it is simply about limiting access to firearms to those who can demonstrate they are safe and responsible with them. We have a long way to go.

 

[Natural Citizen]

This is the new level.....not just people at mass shootings....but people experiencing MORE than one mass shooting.

What bothers me about it is that nobody ever talks about the fact that almost every single one of these combatants were prescribed and on psychotropic drugs. I posted a rather long list around here some place a while back. It was disturbing.

The fact that nobody ever talks about that is very telling to me that people aren't really interested in discussing the more fundamental issue here.

The fact that every other commercial between news breaks is a drug commercial warning of suicidal thoughts and depression if you take their product is also very telling about why we never hear it discussed on those same news outlets. Have to cater to the sponsors. In this case and in many others we've read about, they're more like sponsors of mass murder.

 

[OldLady]

Well, I don't know about everything you say, but welfare is definitely about keeping the poor comfortable enough not to revolt. We all know that. Or we should.

If the federal government wasn't involved in welfare, I wouldn't utter a peep about it.

Welfare is perfectly constitutional at the state level, and I'd add that the states do have a moral duty to help their people out when they need it. The states, unlike the federal government, have constitutional authority to do it. Same with medicare. Get the feds out of it and leave it to the states. That's constitutional.

Only if the feds give us a BIG chunk of change back to do that.

 

[EverCurious]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

 

[OldLady]

There is another thread starting in Health & Lifestyle about the role antidepressants and other drugs may be playing in this suicidal/homicidal increase in violence.
Although it is easy to say "yes, they were mentally ill so of course they were on meds," I don't think we should dismiss the idea out of hand without taking a serious look at it. "Cutting edge" medical treatments over the years have been pretty wild. Like mercury to cure syphilis and bleeding patients to cure whatever ailed them. Electric shock treatments for depression were pretty rough, too, although they did seem to work for awhile.

So there's nothing wrong with taking a look see at what is happening. Think of what the doctor's advice was fifty years ago and compare it to today on any number of issues. Their ideas and treatments are always changing.

All that said, for the most part, I believe antidepressants are successful in helping most patients with garden variety depression. We still have a lot to learn, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, either.

Oh that's fucking rich while you advocate to leave me defenseless to fucking protect myself and my family with the only equalizer for a woman my size...

I've already said that nixing the 2nd doesn't mean taking away everyone's guns. It should be a privilege, which I'm sure you would earn. I don't think taking away all medications for the mentally ill is a good idea, if that's what you're saying.

Bulllllshit. The second the 2nd is gone everyone in this nation will be disarmed and murdered if they refuse to comply. Trying to pretend that's not what would happen the moment D's got into power in any way, shape, or form is 100% a lie and everyone in the damned country knows it.

Again, rich. Would you like to address your 'let's not throw the baby out with the bath water' comment now?

I am talking about antidepressants and antipsychotics, which help a shitload of people lead fairly normal, productive lives. That's the baby I wouldn't want to see thrown away while we look at whether some of these medications are making the problem worse in some cases.

 

[OldLady]

This is the new level.....not just people at mass shootings....but people experiencing MORE than one mass shooting.

What bothers me about it is that nobody ever talks about the fact that almost every single one of these combatants were prescribed and on psychotropic drugs. I posted a rather long list around here some place a while back. It was disturbing.

The fact that nobody ever talks about that is very telling to me that people aren't really interested in discussing the more fundamental issue here.

The fact that every other commercial between news breaks is a drug commercial warning of suicidal thoughts and depression if you take their product is also very telling about why we never hear it discussed on those same news outlets. Have to cater to the sponsors. In this case and in many others we've read about, they're more like sponsors of mass murder.

I'm not sure we know enough about it to know if that was the causal factor. Maybe we should ask the CDC to look into it.

 

[Olde Europe]

No, it's fucking crazy. Tell me which mass murder was a psyop to advance gun control.

Do you own research. Check "Sandy Hook" & "Infowars". So there!

It proves there's no Sanity Clause.

It really isn't funny at all.

From research demonstrating that anyone owning a gun is far more likely to be killed by that gun than using it to defend themselves, to the ludicrous notion that fat couch-potatos with a gun will take down the overbearing Federal Government running amuck, the U.S. Army, the FBI, the various National Guards, and local law enforcement, it all demonstrates that some "think" lunacy is invincible. And, by the looks of it, their numbers are exploding.

As I said, it isn't funny at all.

 

[OldLady]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

 

[EverCurious]

There is another thread starting in Health & Lifestyle about the role antidepressants and other drugs may be playing in this suicidal/homicidal increase in violence.
Although it is easy to say "yes, they were mentally ill so of course they were on meds," I don't think we should dismiss the idea out of hand without taking a serious look at it. "Cutting edge" medical treatments over the years have been pretty wild. Like mercury to cure syphilis and bleeding patients to cure whatever ailed them. Electric shock treatments for depression were pretty rough, too, although they did seem to work for awhile.

So there's nothing wrong with taking a look see at what is happening. Think of what the doctor's advice was fifty years ago and compare it to today on any number of issues. Their ideas and treatments are always changing.

All that said, for the most part, I believe antidepressants are successful in helping most patients with garden variety depression. We still have a lot to learn, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, either.

Oh that's fucking rich while you advocate to leave me defenseless to fucking protect myself and my family with the only equalizer for a woman my size...

I've already said that nixing the 2nd doesn't mean taking away everyone's guns. It should be a privilege, which I'm sure you would earn. I don't think taking away all medications for the mentally ill is a good idea, if that's what you're saying.

Bulllllshit. The second the 2nd is gone everyone in this nation will be disarmed and murdered if they refuse to comply. Trying to pretend that's not what would happen the moment D's got into power in any way, shape, or form is 100% a lie and everyone in the damned country knows it.

Again, rich. Would you like to address your 'let's not throw the baby out with the bath water' comment now?

I am talking about antidepressants and antipsychotics, which help a shitload of people lead fairly normal, productive lives. That's the baby I wouldn't want to see thrown away while we look at whether some of these medications are making the problem worse in some cases.

Oh so it's okay to throw out constitutional rights that have been on the books for fucking 227 years due to an increase of mass shootings over the past decade... that's not "throwing out the baby with the bathwater" in your world?

lawl

 

[Natural Citizen]

I'm not sure we know enough about it to know if that was the causal factor. Maybe we should ask the CDC to look into it.

Naw, that won't work, I want to abolish the CDC. lol.

 

[EverCurious]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

Yea, of course my life is forfeit because I don't believe that guns are simple tools and it's the murderers themselves that are the problem.

You twatwaffles whine all day about empathy for victims, but you literally don't have a single scrap of it that's real.

 

[buttercup]

You fucks won't address it, so let me ask again:

Why should I, an innocent American citizen, be punished, and have my constitutional right to defend my life and family removed, due to the actions of a criminal murderer?

^^^ This is the kind of whining that led me to finally say "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

She was absolutely right. Self-defense is a basic human right. If you want to strip law-abiding people of that right, then you are no better than the criminals who kill others.

ETA: and that goes for all the other bootlicking dupes here.

 

[Natural Citizen]

And the FDA, too.