Zelensky No Longer interested in Nato Diplomacy

[The Sage of Main Street]

Russia backed off from the Kiev front or was defeated?

The Chicken Kiev Is Only Defrosting Until Putin Puts It in the Oven

It was a feint. They'll be back there with the real Russian military later.

Putin wants to drag out the war because week by week things get worse at home for the Globalist Alliance. More and more client countries are dropping out from its sanction regime and the leaders of the powers pushing multiculturalism are stuck on stupid. The smug and falsely secure Globalists are in critical danger of their suffering populations deposing them. It will be a miserable summer without air-conditioning and a fatally heatless winter.

The sanctions aren't hurting Russia. They can sell their products not only to 2 billion people in China and India, but also through the black market.

 

[Donald H]

The Chicken Kiev Is Only Defrosting Until Putin Puts It in the Oven

It was a feint. They'll be back there with the real Russian military later.

I still see it as a threat that Russia never intended to carry through with, and so I don't think they'll be back. It will be debated on whether Russia wants to take Kiev or is not capable. The clue is in the fact that very minimal damage was done to Kiev.

Putin wants to drag out the war because week by week things get worse at home for the Globalist Alliance. More and more client countries drop out from its sanction regime and the leaders of the main multicultie pushers, who are stuck on stupid, are in critical danger of their suffering populations deposing them.

I would need some evidence to accept that Russia wants to drag it out. US and Nato military personnell are in the Ukraine without their flags and that will be more of a challenge to Russia. No country will have to won the dead that Russia delivers.

The sanctions aren't hurting Russia. They can sell their products not only to 2 billion people in China and India, but also through the black market.

No, the sanctions aren't going to break Russia. Russia is powerful because they are rich in natural resources.

 

[alexa]

I still see it as a threat that Russia never intended to carry through with, and so I don't think they'll be back. It will be debated on whether Russia wants to take Kiev or is not capable. The clue is in the fact that very minimal damage was done to Kiev.

I would need some evidence to accept that Russia wants to drag it out. US and Nato military personnell are in the Ukraine without their flags and that will be more of a challenge to Russia. No country will have to won the dead that Russia delivers.


No, the sanctions aren't going to break Russia. Russia is powerful because they are rich in natural resources.

Not sure that is something to boast about. The IPCC's new report is warning that if we continue using fossile fuels as we currently are, we will be at over 3 degrees warming by 2030. We are not talking about next century. We are not even talking about 2050. We are talking about 8 years away. It ought to be becomming a criminal offence to encourage such things.

 

[para bellum]

For the last 30 years, NATO has been an alliance in search of a mission.

Putin has provided NATO with that new mission.

The PM's of Sweden and Finland held a joint presser this morning. Expect ascension papers to be submitted end of June. Approval will be quick- both countries are already more interoperable than NATO member states from eastern Europe.

 

[Donald H]

For the last 30 years, NATO has been an alliance in search of a mission.

Putin has provided NATO with that new mission.

The PM's of Sweden and Finland held a joint presser this morning. Expect ascension papers to be submitted end of June. Approval will be quick- both countries are already more interoperable than NATO member states from eastern Europe.

The two great opposing alliances are being formed now, even more quickly than if the US didn't initiate the process with this war.

The UN General Assembly vote indicates that the split is roughly 90 countries in the West's alliance and around 80 in the East's. The latter is counting abstentions from voting in favour of the resolution to join the US in sanctions against Russia.

I have no idea what the actual 'people represented' would be. Does anybody have more thorough information?

 

[Rogue AI]

Russia‘s withdrawal from Kiev telegraphs that they realize it was much stronger defended than they anticipated

That assumption is based on the flawed theory that taking Kiev was a primary early objective. Clearly it was not. Putin cannot ensure Crimea and Donbas are freed from the Ukraine until he has full control of Donbas and his land bridge to Crimea. Not to mention the troops who left Kiev likely cannot return in time to defend it again.

 

[rightwinger]

That assumption is based on the flawed theory that taking Kiev was a primary early objective. Clearly it was not. Putin cannot ensure Crimea and Donbas are freed from the Ukraine until he has full control of Donbas and his land bridge to Crimea. Not to mention the troops who left Kiev likely cannot return in time to defend it again.

Taking Kyiv and overthrowing the Ukrainian Government to install a Putin puppet was a primary objective

Putin failed Bigly

 

[para bellum]

The two great opposing alliances are being formed now, even more quickly than if the US didn't initiate the process with this war.

Putin initiated this war. His back was not against the wall, no one was threatening Russia with anything.

The UN General Assembly vote indicates that the split is roughly 90 countries in the West's alliance and around 80 in the East's. The latter is counting abstentions from voting in favour of the resolution to join the US in sanctions against Russia.

Well the vote in the UN general Assy. was 141 against Russia. You count abstentions as opposition, I call that "counting your chickens". I don't know how you come up with 80 countries, if you give Russia every abstention and "no" you are only at 50...

China is not going to support Russia at the expense of her commercial ties with the West, neither will India. They have their own populations and problems to deal with, and they won't wreck their own economies for Putin's sake. Nothing Russia has to offer can compete with the combined economies of North America and Europe.

What will happen is what always happens- some large companies in those countries will bypass sanctions and trade with Russia at heavily discounted prices.

 

[rightwinger]

Russia claiming they never wanted to take Kyiv is belied by the number of deaths and tanks they lost trying to take it

 

[Richard-H]

Kyiv was a secondary objective and judged not worth the time and effort to occupy. So the Russian army redeployed its forces to the Donbas region which was always their primary objective.

Nonsense!

Putin has made it clear that he does not believe Ukraine is a valid country. He believes that it should be part of Russia.

His intention was to conquer and annex all of Ukraine. When that failed, he changed his goals to just annexing the Donbas region.

He may not even achieve that limited goal.

If Finland joins NATO, Russia will lose the war in Ukraine completely. Russia does not have the resources to maintain a first rate defense along the Finnish border while engaged in a major war in Ukraine.

Russia has never done well in their wars against Finland - and they know it.

 

[Rogue AI]

Taking Kyiv and overthrowing the Ukrainian Government to install a Putin puppet was a primary objective

Putin failed Bigly

Not an early one. Penning the defenders in the north and securing what they wanted had to occur before they could take Kiev. There was no failure in that. Nor is Zelensky likely to sign any agreement so long as Kiev is unassailed. If you hadn't noticed the Western pundits either lied, or were completely ignorant of what the Russian strategy is, and has been from the start.

 

[Donald H]

Putin initiated this war. His back was not against the wall, no one was threatening Russia with anything.


Well the vote in the UN general Assy. was 141 against Russia. You count abstentions as opposition, I call that "counting your chickens". I don't know how you come up with 80 countries, if you give Russia every abstention and "no" you are only at 50...

I roughly counted around 80 with abstentions. But you're right that those aren't chickens home.

China is not going to support Russia at the expense of her commercial ties with the West, neither will India. They have their own populations and problems to deal with, and they won't wreck their own economies for Putin's sake. Nothing Russia has to offer can compete with the combined economies of North America and Europe.

The US is banking on that right now obviously but it's a temporary position at best and China will be driven away more likely than needing to choose. I think you're into wishful thinking and grasping at straws.

What will happen is what always happens- some large companies in those countries will bypass sanctions and trade with Russia at heavily discounted prices.

You're talking the party line and that's not being objective. I'm not into any armchair warfare.

 

[Richard-H]

That assumption is based on the flawed theory that taking Kiev was a primary early objective. Clearly it was not. Putin cannot ensure Crimea and Donbas are freed from the Ukraine until he has full control of Donbas and his land bridge to Crimea. Not to mention the troops who left Kiev likely cannot return in time to defend it again.

"Sour grapes" much?

 

[Donald H]

Putin initiated this war. His back was not against the wall, no one was threatening Russia with anything.


Well the vote in the UN general Assy. was 141 against Russia. You count abstentions as opposition, I call that "counting your chickens". I don't know how you come up with 80 countries, if you give Russia every abstention and "no" you are only at 50...

China is not going to support Russia at the expense of her commercial ties with the West, neither will India. They have their own populations and problems to deal with, and they won't wreck their own economies for Putin's sake. Nothing Russia has to offer can compete with the combined economies of North America and Europe.

What will happen is what always happens- some large companies in those countries will bypass sanctions and trade with Russia at heavily discounted prices.

Here's the results of the resolution I was referencing.

UN General Assembly votes to suspend Russia from the Human Rights Council

The UN General Assembly adopted a resolution on Thursday calling for Russia to be suspended from the Human Rights Council.

news.un.org

 

[Rogue AI]

"Sour grapes" much?

I don't know you or what you are talking about.

 

[Richard-H]

I don't know you or what you are talking about.

Sorry, I forgot that you Russians aren't familiar with Western culture:

The Fox and the Grapes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rogue AI]

Sorry, I forgot that you Russians aren't familiar with Western culture:

The Fox and the Grapes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh, you're one of those idiots. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is 'Russian'.

Morons like you are going to be sadly disappointed.

 

[Sunni Man]

Russia has never done well in their wars against Finland - and they know it.

You might want to open a history book and read about the "Continuation War" when in 1944 Finland gave Russia part of their land that had large nickel mineral deposit's plus millions of dollars. As part of a deal to stop an invasion of their country by the numerically vastly superior Soviet army poised to strike on its border. ....

"Nonetheless, the peace terms that Finland accepted in September 1944 were harsh. The territory the Soviets had captured in 1940 and then lost in 1941 would be restored, plus Finland would cede the Petsamo peninsula and pay $300 million in reparations."

How Finland Lost World War II to the Soviets, But Won Peace

In 1940, the Finns had the upper hand. Four years later, the Evil Empire struck back.

nationalinterest.org

 

[para bellum]

The US is banking on that right now obviously but it's a temporary position at best and China will be driven away more likely than needing to choose. I think you're into wishful thinking and grasping at straws.

The US is a bystander. Europe is setting the tone, and Europe is feeling threatened.

I don't need to grasp at anything- I'm just an observer. "Grasping at straws" is pretending that the Battle of Kiev was just a feint. Putin lost 20% of his invasion combat capability- more if you count by the units that were so badly degraded as to be combat ineffective.

They advanced to the outskirts of Kiev in 72 hours, and stalled out because they have no organic sustainment in the BTG formation. So they had to dig in and wait for a resupply that never arrived. For 30 days they were dug in along the roadsides, with Ukrainian forces pounding them daily, until the order to withdraw finally came on March 29.

In that time they did what frustrated and poorly trained/led/supplied armies always do- they turned their guns on the civilian population and began looting.

Some 3000+ POSME's (pieces of significant military equipment) were lost in the Battle of Kiev.. That is not a "feint". That is a military disaster. Some BTG's were completely wiped out, the lucky ones lost 30%-50% of their crews and equipment.

I have been watching the movements every day since they pulled out from Kiev. They haven't learned a damn thing. Rather than taking the time to properly reconstitute their forces and make a coherent and coordinated offensive, they just insert reinforcements into the Donbas front as they become available.

Russia still outmasses Ukraine by every measure- but the reach of the Russian army is 320km from the railhead, not one inch more.

You're talking the party line and that's not being objective. I'm not into any armchair warfare.

It's not a "party line", it's the experience of history. Just look at Iran and Iraq. There will always be companies that try to take advantage of sanctions to get a cut-rate price on oil, or to sell military hardware at a premium. I have no reason to expect anything different this time.

I also know that China's economy depends on trade with Europe and North America a hell of a lot more than it depends on Russia- which has an economy about the size of Italy. Xi knows that too.

India has their own history with China that makes any alliance against the West extremely unlikely. India views China as the primary threat to their own sovereignty, and a 30-year diaspora to the west has put a few million Indian nationals into every western nation.

India wants to be seen as a major global player, and proud to call themselves the world's largest democracy. They will not accept a position subordinate to China or Russia on anything geopolitical. They will maintain their "non-aligned" posture as far as it does not hurt their economy, and no further.

So I would say that you are the one engaging in wishful thinking- that's an opinion that I am sure you do not agree with, but that's okay too...

 

[Donald H]

The US is a bystander. Europe is setting the tone, and Europe is feeling threatened.

That alone tells me that it's a waste of my time trying to address any of your talking points.