Zelensky No Longer interested in Nato Diplomacy

[Donald H]

Zelensky Says He's 'No Longer Interested' in NATO's Diplomacy - News From Antiwar.com

Zelensky says he will 'definitely' not recognize Crimea as Russian

news.antiwar.com

First off, Zelensky is solid on the Crimea being returned to the Ukraine, and that puts any sort of peace completely out of reach! There's absolutely no way that Russia could possibly give up the Crimean peninsula.

But read the story and then: Is Zelensky just saying what he's being told to say by the US? And will his people continue to support him when it looks like Russia is going to get serious now in the Donbass region?

There's everything to gain for both sides with a ceasefire and negotiations for a peace that will satisfy Russia's concerns as well as the Ukrainian concerns.

A serious discussion please!

 

[rightwinger]

There's everything to gain for both sides with a ceasefire and negotiations for a peace that will satisfy Russia's concerns as well as the Ukrainian concerns.

What ceasefire prevents Russia from regrouping and attacking again at a later date?

Russian concerns seem to be ceding additional territory and not forming an alliance with anyone who can help defend future attacks

 

[Rambunctious]

The USA and NATO have no intention of stopping Russia...they want some kind of a stalemate...its sick when you consider the carnage that's occurring...

 

[marvin martian]

What ceasefire prevents Russia from regrouping and attacking again at a later date?

Russian concerns seem to be ceding additional territory and not forming an alliance with anyone who can help defend future attacks

You warmongers tried that strategy with Afghanistan.

 

[Donald H]

What ceasefire prevents Russia from regrouping and attacking again at a later date?

That's a relevant question but is it realistic now to suspect Russia wants to take the entire Ukraine?
Russia has withdrawn from its position around Kiev and that telegraphs Russia's intentions.

Russian concerns seem to be ceding additional territory and not forming an alliance with anyone who can help defend future attacks

Russia isn't interested in 'ceding territory. Russia's only concern is in creating a buffer zone between their borders and Nato.

US intentions are the same as they have been since the beginning of the expansion of Nato.

Why is it so hard to understand that this is another US war of aggression to fight Russia in the only way open to America?

 

[rightwinger]

That's a relevant question but is it realistic now to suspect Russia wants to take the entire Ukraine?
Russia has withdrawn from its position around Kiev and that telegraphs Russia's intentions.

Russia‘s withdrawal from Kiev telegraphs that they realize it was much stronger defended than they anticipated

 

[rightwinger]

Russia isn't interested in 'ceding territory. Russia's only concern is in creating a buffer zone between their borders and Nato.

US intentions are the same as they have been since the beginning of the expansion of Nato.

Ukraine sought NATO protection because they feared Russian aggression.
Turns out they were correct

 

[Sunni Man]

The psycho Zelensky is trying emulate his 1945 hero.
By telling telling the Ukrainian people to never surrender and continue fighting to the death as their country is bombed into rubble around them.
While he hides in his Fuhrer bunker in Kyiv living like a king.
With a pistol and cyanide capsule within easy reach. ....

 

[Donald H]

The USA and NATO have no intention of stopping Russia...they want some kind of a stalemate...its sick when you consider the carnage that's occurring...

That's a productive comment at least!

Can you imagine what could be the stalemate you envision? I could if I was interested in an armchair war, but what's the point?

Without that, how about UN presence in the disputed areas?

 

[Donald H]

Ukraine sought NATO protection because they feared Russian aggression.
Turns out they were correct

The facts don't bear that out. The Ukraine has been involved in a civil war in the Donbass regioin since 2014 officially, and likely longer.

 

[rightwinger]

The facts don't bear that out. The Ukraine has been involved in a civil war in the Donbass regioin since 2014 officially, and likely longer.

Which has what to do with Russia invading the WHOLE COUNTRY?

 

[Flash]

Zelensky Says He's 'No Longer Interested' in NATO's Diplomacy - News From Antiwar.com

Zelensky says he will 'definitely' not recognize Crimea as Russian

news.antiwar.com

First off, Zelensky is solid on the Crimea being returned to the Ukraine, and that puts any sort of peace completely out of reach! There's absolutely no way that Russia could possibly give up the Crimean peninsula.

But read the story and then: Is Zelensky just saying what he's being told to say by the US? And will his people continue to support him when it looks like Russia is going to get serious now in the Donbass region?

There's everything to gain for both sides with a ceasefire and negotiations for a peace that will satisfy Russia's concerns as well as the Ukrainian concerns.

A serious discussion please!

Sounds like you think that if you kiss the ass of tyrants then you think maybe they will stop killing you.

 

[Donald H]

The psycho Zelensky is trying emulate his 1945 hero.
By telling telling the Ukrainian people to never surrender and continue fighting to the death as their country is bombed into rubble around them.
While he hides in his Fuhrer bunker in Kyiv living like a king.
With a pistol and cyanide capsule within easy reach. ....

I get your talking points but I think they're probably wrong on Zelensky. He is more likely deeply concerned but is being encouraged by America to bear the cost in lives. He still believes that the US will bring him victory.

There's no reason at all other than propaganda, to believe that the US/Ukraine side is in disagreement on the progress of their war.

The propaganda effort has painted Zelensky to be something that he isn't and never was. He's been a willing participant all along.

 

[Rambunctious]

That's a productive comment at least!

Can you imagine what could be the stalemate you envision? I could if I was interested in an armchair war, but what's the point?

Without that, how about UN presence in the disputed areas?

UN?... Obviously there are fewer pro-Russian Ukrainians today due to the brutal tactics of the Russian military..... So if I were in charge I wouldn't settle for anything less than a complete withdraw of all Russian soldiers from every part of the Ukraine....
Bringing in the UN as it is constituted today would just be one more ingredient to an existing corruption cocktail....
If we and NATO are powerless to stop Putin from killing noncombatants then I for one want my money back.....

 

[Donald H]

Which has what to do with Russia invading the WHOLE COUNTRY?

Russia backed off from the Kiev front or was defeated?

 

[para bellum]

By the end of the summer, Putin is going to find that his border with NATO has doubled.

Crimea and Donbas are part of Ukraine, internationally recognized borders and all that. You can't change that order with mercenaries and fake referendums.

No compromises with Putin now. I don't agree with the NATO eastward expansion, but those are still sovereign nations and have the right to make the alliances they choose. They have a long history with Russia on which to base their decisions, and they chose to integrate more closely with Western Europe.

Putin's back was not against the wall. No one was threatening Russia, and there was no imminent threat of Ukraine becoming a NATO country. Now it has become inevitable. Ukraine will become a NATO state and sooner, rather than later, and Russia will be a client state of China. Putin has assured this.

If Putin has put 175,000 troops into Eastern Ukraine at the start- and limited his ambitions to Donetsk and Luhansk, Ukraine probably would have conceded that territory and Crimea for an enforceable peace. Most of the people in those places who can flee, have already fled. The managers and professionals have been replaced by stooges based on their loyalty to the Kremlin, not their competence. Those territories will just be a drain on the Kremlin.

But the failed decapitation attempt on Kiev put Europe on red alert, and now they look at Russia in a completely different light. The AFU showed that the ten-foot tall Russian army is not looking so scary after all and the atrocities that have been committed against civilians will not be forgotten.

New one out of Bucha today- a car shot to pieces, 3 women and 2 small children murdered in cold blood. Can't do that.

 

[Litwin]

A serious discussion please!

said a Moscow paid troll

 

[Litwin]

1945

 

[Donald H]

UN?... Obviously there are fewer pro-Russian Ukrainians today due to the brutal tactics of the Russian military..... So if I were in charge I wouldn't settle for anything less than a complete withdraw of all Russian soldiers from every part of the Ukraine....
Bringing in the UN as it is constituted today would just be one more ingredient to an existing corruption cocktail....
If we and NATO are powerless to stop Putin from killing noncombatants then I for one want my money back.....

If you turn to discounting the limitations placed on both sides then your comments become N.A.

US/Nato diplomacy is essential.

There have been dozens of articles written that explain why Russia is refusing to lose. If you know why you might be able to debate the point?

 

[rightwinger]

Russia backed off from the Kiev front or was defeated?

Putin overestimated the strength of his Army and had to pull back