Zone1 What are the primary reasons people are anti-Catholic-poll

[hobelim]

The Catholic Church is the single largest charitable organization on the planet. No other Church, establishment or entity even comes close.

Right.

They teach people to defy the law of God at mass and turn to a matzo made by human hands for spiritual life and then they die, descend into hell, and lose their souls, their sanity. So then, when those who cannot live a life of pretense can't function and become destitute you give them soup.

I am sure that Jesus is very impressed.

I am.

 

[Meriweather]

I stopped hearing anything the Evil Stupid Church had to say after February 23rd, 1983.

Most likely before that.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

What are the primary reasons people are anti-Catholic

None of the above. You spread paganism and convince people it's Christianity.

 

[JoeB131]

Tell me how that "damage" affected you. For example, have you turned your back on the US for events that led up to and through the Civil War?

No, but there I have an active stake (and culpability) based on who I vote for.

I can't vote for a Pope who will reverse all the stupid shit that they've done over the last 2000 years.

Now, obviously, I'd probably care a lot less if the Church hadn't actively made my childhood a miserable experience. But since it did, I certainly have the right to point out all the stuff they've done wrong, especially when some Catholic Fanatic like forkintheroad7 tries to lecture me about "morality".

 

[Ace Nova]

Or not. Bircher Propaganda doesn't interest me


A bunch of Catholic propaganda for stuff Pope JP2 already apologized for isn't convincing.

JP2 already admitted you did all this shit. I just refuse to accept his apology.

Who's "you"?

Does judging the entire Catholic Church and all of its members because of abominations caused by less than 1% of all Catholics seem just to you? The victims and their families were Catholic - some still are Catholic. Do you think it makes them feel "justified" when folks like yourself immediately bring up the issue with any mention of the Church? Probably not - it likely takes them back to a very dark, painful place filled with embarrassment, misery and disgust. It does that for almost any Catholic - imagine how much worse it is for the victims themselves?

If you want to hate the Church, that's one thing - but isn't attacking innocent people within the Church persecution?

If you were to judge almost any organization, country, state, etc on the planet by what the worst 1% may have done within those entities - then there wouldn't be a country or organization on the planet that you could forgive.

That said, I believe the Catholic Church is to be held to a much higher moral standard because it represents God's teachings to billions and billions of people. For me personally, there are no words or actions that would be strong enough to bring justice to the victims and their families. I can only hope that they somehow manage to find peace and know that the actions of those involved in no way represent the entirety of the Catholic Church nor do they have anything to do with God or his ways.

 

[JoeB131]

Most likely before that.

We've discussed this many times. I had my suspicions they church was full of beans (see, I'm Zone 1) long before my mom passed away and that idiot nun said what she said. But yeah, that was more or less the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[JoeB131]

Who's "you"?

Does judging the entire Catholic Church and all of its members because of abominations caused by less than 1% of all Catholics seem just to you? The victims and their families were Catholic - some still are Catholic. Do you think it makes them feel "justified" when folks like yourself immediately bring up the issue with any mention of the Church? Probably not - it likely takes them back to a very dark, painful place filled with embarrassment, misery and disgust. It does that for almost any Catholic - imagine how much worse it is for the victims themselves?

If the Church victimized you and you are still a Catholic, that's your own damned fault.

 

[hobelim]

We've discussed this many times. I had my suspicions they church was full of beans (see, I'm Zone 1) long before my mom passed away and that idiot nun said what she said. But yeah, that was more or less the straw that broke the camel's back.

For me its was in the second grade after they forced memorization of the Ten Commandments under threats of real and imaginary violence and then led children to openly violate the first command at mass to not bow down to or worship anything made by human hands which they made abundantly clear would result in death, descent into hell, and ultimately destruction...

I already knew all about the talking serpent in the fairy tale. To me it was obviously a death trap.

And all I did was pay attention....

 

[Ace Nova]

Right.

They teach people to defy the law of God at mass and turn to a matzo made by human hands for spiritual life and then they die, descend into hell, and lose their souls, their sanity. So then, when those who cannot live a life of pretense can't function and become destitute you give them soup.

I am sure that Jesus is very impressed.

I am.

We've spoken about your spirituality in the past and I believe you stated that you feel that you are spiritual but do not follow any form of organized religion. Where does your spirituality come from? How do you know it to be spirituality? How do you use it?

 

[hobelim]

I believe the Catholic Church is to be held to a much higher moral standard because it represents God's teachings to billions and billions of people.

A higher moral standard? WTF!

Then why does the church teach people to set aside the law of God and turn to a lifeless matzo made by human hands for spiritual life? Whatever you profess to believe, thats what you do.

Not to mention your willingness to celebrate the torture and death of Jesus, an innocent man, instead of you being held accountable for your own sins, (even if its delusional Roman fantasy).

How moral is that?

Dummy.

 

[hobelim]

Where does your spirituality come from? How do you know it to be spirituality?

I wouldn't call it spirituality. I call it being rational. It comes from a decision to cast my lot with the Spirit of truth and reject a spirit of perversity and a smooth and easy life of of perpetual pretense

How do you use it?

By thinking, RUMINATING, its easy. You should try it

 

[Ace Nova]

If the Church victimized you and you are still a Catholic, that's your own damned fault.

For the victims and/or their families that remained Catholic afterwards - how strong is their faith in God? Even those that left but somehow managed to move past it - stronger than most. And for the victims and their families that are still weary of the Church - they have every right to be and I deeply empathize with them and their families.

 

[hobelim]

how strong is their faith in God?

Apparently not very.

If they had any faith at all they wouldn't turn to a lifeless matzo to worship and eat for spiritual life

 

[forkintheroad7]

Do you want to see the medical bills my family got slapped with when my parents had cancer?


Oh, I've done my share of things I'm not proud of.

But it didn't involved molesting altar boys, collaborating with Nazis, starting crusades, Burning Witches (even my slutty Wiccan Ex-girlfriend), torturing heretics, starting an inquisition... well, the list can go on.

so... your sins are better

 

[Ace Nova]

I wouldn't call it spirituality. I call it being rational. It comes from a decision to cast my lot with the Spirit of truth and reject a spirit of perversity and a smooth and easy life of of perpetual pretense



By thinking, RUMINATING, its easy. You should try it

Smooth and easy life of perpetual pretense? Do you think being Catholic and following Catholic Doctrine is easy? Even for someone who's faith is strong and has lived a fruitful life, full of good works, deeds - their life is not a "smooth and easy life of perpetual pretense".

As far as Catholics "ruminating" and being "rational" - The Catholic Church helped build the foundations of modern science...

The relationship between science and the Catholic Church is a widely debated subject. Historically, the Catholic Church has been a patron of sciences. It has been prolific in the foundation and funding of schools, universities, and hospitals, and many clergy have been active in the sciences. Some historians of science such as Pierre Duhem credit medieval Catholic mathematicians and philosophers such as John Buridan, Nicole Oresme, and Roger Bacon as the founders of modern science.[1] Duhem found "the mechanics and physics, of which modern times are justifiably proud, to proceed by an uninterrupted series of scarcely perceptible improvements from doctrines professed in the heart of the medieval schools."[2] Historian John Heilbron says that "The Roman Catholic Church gave more financial and social support to the study of astronomy for over six centuries, from the recovery of ancient learning during the late Middle Ages into the Enlightenment, than any other, and probably all, other Institutions."[3] The conflict thesis and other critiques emphasize the historical or contemporary conflict between the Catholic Church and science, citing, in particular, the trial of Galileo as evidence. For its part, the Catholic Church teaches that science and the Christian faith are complementary, as can be seen from the Catechism of the Catholic Church which states in regards to faith and science:

Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth. ... Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God despite himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are.[4]

Catholic scientists, both religious and lay, have led scientific discovery in many fields.[5] From ancient times, Christian emphasis on practical charity gave rise to the development of systematic nursing and hospitals and the Church remains the single largest private provider of medical care and research facilities in the world.[6] Following the Fall of Rome, monasteries and convents remained bastions of scholarship in Western Europe and clergymen were the leading scholars of the age – studying nature, mathematics, and the motion of the stars (largely for religious purposes).[7] During the Middle Ages, the Church founded Europe's first universities, producing scholars like Robert Grosseteste, Albert the Great, Roger Bacon, and Thomas Aquinas, who helped establish the scientific method.[8]

During this period, the Church was also a major patron of engineering for the construction of elaborate cathedrals. Since the Renaissance, Catholic scientists have been credited as fathers of a diverse range of scientific fields: Nicolaus Copernicus (1473-1543) pioneered heliocentrism, René Descartes (1596-1650) father of analytical geometry and co-founder of modern philosophy, Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744-1829) prefigured the theory of evolution with Lamarckism, Friar Gregor Mendel (1822-1884) pioneered genetics, and Fr Georges Lemaître (1894-1966) proposed the Big Bang cosmological model.[10] The Society of Jesus has been particularly active, notably in astronomy; the Papacy and the Jesuits initially promoted the observations and studies of Galileo Galilei, until the latter was put on trial and forced to recant by the Roman inquisition. Church patronage of sciences continues through institutions like the Pontifical Academy of Sciences (a successor to the Accademia dei Lincei of 1603) and Vatican Observatory (a successor to the Gregorian Observatory of 1580).[11]

According to historian John L. Heilbron, "Between 1650 and 1750, four Catholic churches were home to the best solar observatories in the world. Built to fix an unquestionable date for Easter, they also housed instruments that threw light on the disputed geometry of the solar system."[12]

Science and the Catholic Church - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[hobelim]

Smooth and easy life of perpetual pretense? Do you think being Catholic and following Catholic Doctrine is easy? Even for someone who's faith is strong and has lived a fruitful life, full of good works, deeds - their life is not a "smooth and easy life of perpetual pretense".

Tell that to the Pope prancing around as he was a dignitary and representative of Christ who, as the Gospels show, would rather be tortured and crucified than to do what Catholics do at mass.

Which is exactly what the Romans were doing when practicing Mithraism, the secret MYSTERY RELIGION of the Roman government and military, whose 7 sacraments the Church follows identically. An ascetic anti female religion whose priesthood consisted of celibate men only.

If you don't believe me, look it up.

As far as Catholics "ruminating" and being "rational" - The Catholic Church helped build the foundations of modern science...

So then why does anyone on earth still turn to a lifeless matzo MADE BY HUMAN HANDS, which can neither see, hear, speak, or walk, to worship and eat for spiritual life mr. rational science guy.

Take your time....

 

[Meriweather]

We've discussed this many times. I had my suspicions they church was full of beans (see, I'm Zone 1) long before my mom passed away and that idiot nun said what she said. But yeah, that was more or less the straw that broke the camel's back.

God's love. A mother's love. Mom, love isn't dying. God, love isn't letting my mom die. Sister, thanks a bunch for telling me God (who is love) actually wanted my mother (and her love) to die.

You didn't need a nun that day God and your mother failed you. You needed Job. Job had no answers and never came into answers, either.

So, lesson learned. Love fails. At the highest levels. And you've spent your life verifying that thought. It's like without love, all that you have left is being right...which means others have to be wrong. Fact of life: Things go wrong. People do the wrong things, say the wrong things. Good intentions have unintended consequences that are awful. People misunderstand. A lot. In fact, it seems almost always. So, no harm in crowing about how wrong others are, especially if those others caused you personal hurt. Crowing actually feels good.

But going beyond crowing and refusing to forgive is a wrong that turns on oneself. You are not perfect, my friend--none of us are, much to the dismay of all. But don't shoot yourself in the foot. Forgive, and walk in peace. It's worth it. The wrongs remain wrong. Never doubt that, so they need, not to be forgotten, but to be forgiven.

 

[JoeB131]

so... your sins are better

Well, they were a lot more fun!!!

 

[JoeB131]

You didn't need a nun that day God and your mother failed you. You needed Job. Job had no answers and never came into answers, either.

Actually, the Book of Job is kind of horrible. God and Satan make a bar bet that if they just fuck with this poor schlub's life, Satan can get him to curse God. Then he had 40 chapters of his friends berating him.

So, lesson learned. Love fails. At the highest levels. And you've spent your life verifying that thought. It's like without love, all that you have left is being right...which means others have to be wrong. Fact of life: Things go wrong. People do the wrong things, say the wrong things. Good intentions have unintended consequences that are awful. People misunderstand. A lot. In fact, it seems almost always. So, no harm in crowing about how wrong others are, especially if those others caused you personal hurt. Crowing actually feels good.

Hmmm... I like to think that I stand for what is right, even if I have to admit I was previously wrong. I used to be Catholic. now I'm not. I used to be Republican until Bush crashed the economy. Now I'm not. The school of hard knocks.

But going beyond crowing and refusing to forgive is a wrong that turns on oneself. You are not perfect, my friend--none of us are, much to the dismay of all. But don't shoot yourself in the foot. Forgive, and walk in peace. It's worth it. The wrongs remain wrong. Never doubt that, so they need, not to be forgotten, but to be forgiven.

If the religious crazies didn't stop trying to impose themselves on the rest of us, I would have no problem, "walking in peace". Trump wrecks the economy, but the Catholic Fanatics are cool with it because he overturned Roe v. Wade.

So we have this bizarre moment when an 82 year old Catholic is protecting a woman's right to choose, and a New York Playboy is taking them away because he's pandering to the religious crazies.

 

[forkintheroad7]

No, but there I have an active stake (and culpability) based on who I vote for.

I can't vote for a Pope who will reverse all the stupid shit that they've done over the last 2000 years.

Now, obviously, I'd probably care a lot less if the Church hadn't actively made my childhood a miserable experience. But since it did, I certainly have the right to point out all the stuff they've done wrong, especially when some Catholic Fanatic like forkintheroad7 tries to lecture me about "morality".

I only look like a Catholic fanatic compared to

say...

Francis

or bribum