You didn't build that, and now, you didn't earn that

[Correll]

All analogies have their limits. My point stands. The farmer made the food, but it is now yours, The government made the dollars, but they are now yours.

Those dollars are not yours until after you pay taxes on them.

The laws of the United States, the Declaration of Human Rights and the very morality of the fruits of your labors being YOURS, says otherwise.

Wealth is not created in isolation

Irrelevant. I work along side many co-workers. We are in each others company, we work together, we support each other, we help each other on nearly ever task.

And not one of them thinks he or she is entitled to any of my paycheck and I do not think I am entitled to any of theirs.

; it is as much the product of society as it is the individual, since society, acting through the government, provides the enabling conditions for the individual to labor safely.

Society is a collection of individuals who agree to function together as a group in order to accomplish tasks that individuals or smaller groups cannot do, in the expectations that all the individuals will benefit.

The "social contract" of such groups can vary from group to group.

At times in the past, I am sure there were groups where some individuals were so desperate that they were willing to accept a deal where in exchange for safety that they would agree to not having the right to ANY property, or the result of ANY of their labor.

My understanding of history is that most slavery was involuntary, but I am given to understand that there were some exceptions to that.

HOWEVER, our founding "social contract" is have provisions for our citizens to have the Right to Property.

YOUR desire to have first dibs on anything and everything produced is a violation of that contract, or what we conservatives call "Human Rights".

And again, lets keep the context in mind.

We are NOT living in a world of plunging tax rates and tiny tax revenues.

The average FEDERAL tax burden is around 30% and that doesn't cover state, local, sales taxes, not to mention the thousands of little "fees" and "service charges" for paper work, parking tickets, and what have you.

This is not about me being selfish, it is about you being greedy.

 

[georgephillip]

The laws of the United States, the Declaration of Human Rights and the very morality of the fruits of your labors being YOURS, says otherwise.

The laws of the US require the payment of taxes.
Therefore, pre-tax income is not legally yours.

 

[Correll]

The laws of the United States, the Declaration of Human Rights and the very morality of the fruits of your labors being YOURS, says otherwise.

The laws of the US require the payment of taxes.
Therefore, pre-tax income is not legally yours.

Those laws, other than the ones imposed by activists judges, were crafted by democratically elected representatives of the PEOPLE, who decided as a group on a certain level of taxes.

IN that it is a voluntary GROUP decision to contribute a certain amount towards Group activities.

But the act of giving a portion of your wealth does not negate your right to property.

That is the bullshit twistings of a fairly evil lawyer, who has hopes of being promoted to looter.

If I give you a dollar, that does not mean you have the right to the rest of my income if you want it.

No matter how good you are at double talk.

 

[georgephillip]

Those laws, other than the ones imposed by activists judges, were crafted by democratically elected representatives of the PEOPLE, who decided as a group on a certain level of taxes.

IN that it is a voluntary GROUP decision to contribute a certain amount towards Group activities.

"AMENDMENT XVI

"Passed by Congress July 2, 1909. Ratified February 3, 1913.

"Note: Article I, section 9, of the Constitution was modified by amendment 16.

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
The Constitution of the United States: Amendments 11-27

All I am (trying) to say is we have a legal obligation to pay income taxes which means we have no legal right to our pre-tax income.

Philosophy, et cetera: Why Taxation Is Not Theft

"First, society is a precondition for individual flourishing -- so even if you create wealth yourself, you couldn't have done it without the prior benefits bestowed upon you by society.

"Secondly, wealth is a social product: you don't just create wealth yourself, it is a product of your interactions with other social agents, etc.)"