no1tovote4
Gold Member
Mariner said:a very good point about Muslim moderates. I think that, unfortunately, they're in a position where speaking out makes them appear "weak" to the more hard-line Muslims. It's very similar to Americans sometimes feeling that we have to talk tough or else be considered wimps. Also, there are few Muslim democracies, and no developed forms for peaceful public protest. Without separation of church from state, without free unfettered media, and without democratic institutions, Muslim moderates are silenced.
We shouldn't forget that the Muslim extremists hate their moderates just as much as they hate us. Osama bin Laden's big beef is with his own country's moderates--hating the U.S. is incidental to him because of our ties to the Saudi Gov't, esp. our military bases there.
That is why moderate governments like Indonesia's should be so carefully supported by the U.S., and why other governments should be helped to remain as moderate as possible.
In other words, just because Muslim moderates don't always speak out, doesn't mean they aren't against fundamentalism. Don't lump all Muslims with the extremists, who are a fringe element of Islam. The big problem really is that they haven't figured out how to separate church from state, so e.g. in Iran, they keep trying to create a theocracy, which naturally gets taken over by the hardest-line religious leaders, who can accuse everyone else of being soft.
Mariner.
I was impressed when I read about the protest against Terrorism led by Her Majesty Queen Rania. However there has been little evidence that moderate Muslims harbor any type of resentment for the Terrorists otherwise. Here in the US we have a growning population of Muslims who also seem to be largely silent on the issue when surely it would behoove them to be vocal in our society against the attacks.
The problem that I have is they are allowing the worst of the religion to define the religion for them to the detriment of all the Muslims in the world. It cannot help them to be seen as silent against terrorism. The only time you hear word one about it is only when somebody is complaining about the stereotype, and oddly enough they complain about the stereotype without once denouncing the action of those who would terrorize in their name except in the most offhand way.
Something like this, "We are a peaceful religion! You shouldn't see us all in the same way as Terrorists!" But this leaves out the fundamental idea that what the terrorists have done is against their beliefs in every way.
I think they should say something more like this, "We are a peaceful religion, hijacked by unmerciful criminals without regard to humanity with a depth of hatred not taught in the Koran! A view of the world against the actual teaching of the Koran that Christians and Jews are not Infidels! We will not stand for these people to define our religion in the world view! We stand with you against this terrorism!"
Since we never get the latter, only the former it seems to most of the world that there is a quiet acquiescence to and approval of the attacks. They want to be taken as peaceful people and treated fairly, but do not want to vigorously denounce the attacks from the terrorists and hope to be found agreeable to both camps, those who perpetuate the terroism are those who stand quietly by and allow it to be accepted in the streets of Muslim countries.
In other words it seems to me that they want their pie, and to eat it too.